Is our athletic department "too religious"?

[Mikey 16,565]

Too religious? No, but tinkering on the edge.

I think Auburn as a whole (Lee County) but also in particular within the athletic department are constantly on the cusp of being overly conservative christian but it is also something that sets us apart in an odd way. Au does seem to hire a certain type of man but it works, besides,I believe the collective consciousness of the Auburn family would not accept anyone else. Right or wrong as it may or may not be we are not the Crimson turds and generally are very choosy about our coaches from a character and morality standpoint. Although the Bobby Petrino folks (I was one for a time) make me think otherwise but that is probably just a knee jerk reaction from our fall from glory plus we were really scorned as fans last season and were grasping for instant fix.

Sidenote - It's always good to have a genuine man of the faith like Chette Williams in the program.

It works? Football finished dead last in the SEC, basketball finished dead last in the SEC and were it not for a one-run win over Georgia last night, baseball would be tied for dead last.

I don't know if JJ puts a potential coach's religious beliefs into hiring decisions or not, but his choices sure haven't "worked". I hope religion doesn't factor into his decisions but I have no way of knowing, one way or the other.

[NCTiger 0]

It's a serious and deserving question to be posed. I think that we hear so much about hiring "men of God" and "men of character" at Auburn, and I think it's a little overwhelming and kind of cheesy at times. I remember this article from a while back, and I think it's pretty revealing:

http://www.thewizofo...-at-auburn.html

At the end of the day they are all people doing a job. The article used as reference used Tony Franklins comments. The idea of professing faith may seem cheesy to some, but for others to complain would appear like the ACLU . Hiring "men of God" and "men of character" is not an automatic pass for job performance.

The revealing part of the article was more so how Tony Franklin felt about coaches at Auburn during 2009.

You hit on something here I want to share. I attended a closed practice the day before the A-Day game when Franklin was there. All coaches get in your grill at times to motivate or hold players accountable but he was just flat out demeaning. He was an f-bomb machine . On one drive Todd fumbled the snap twice in a row (quickly picked up) and Franklin screams....Jesus Christ Chris WTF are you doing....you are f'ing pathetic ....get the F over here. This was consistent throughout practice. I think he sent Neil in to QB for a bit, but my shock was Tubs allowing him to go this far. Later when the staff fell apart I knew he was a major part of the cancer killing their unity. I know he and Nall got into it over how Franklin addressed his OL players. I was so glad to see that trash shown the door.

[walker77 0]

I'm serious about my Christian faith, but I don't believe "Christian" talk correlates much with good character. And in a state university, defining a program in those terms is way out of line. I could do with less cheesiness.

On the other hand, I also believe people should have a right to be open about their faith.

So here is the OP delimma, which you authored...

In your opinion, what is the "acceptable" level of a coach/AD walking out their faith? Where is the standard? Who decides?... Al.com, Obama, congress, a nation-wide vote,???...

... this is not a relative issue, but is based upon absolute none changing standards as set and defined in the Bible... not open to being defined by personable preference... not based on a societal evolutionary sliding scale of morality or conduct...

And we are all probably at least a little intimidated by what this truth requires of each of us individually...

And yes, there is a great need for true Christian influence in every area of the market place today.

[WarTim 3,456]

There is a reason we didn't hire a certain ex pig coach. Character counts

[EagleReedle 14]

Too religious? No, but tinkering on the edge.

I think Auburn as a whole (Lee County) but also in particular within the athletic department are constantly on the cusp of being overly conservative christian but it is also something that sets us apart in an odd way. Au does seem to hire a certain type of man but it works, besides,I believe the collective consciousness of the Auburn family would not accept anyone else. Right or wrong as it may or may not be we are not the Crimson turds and generally are very choosy about our coaches from a character and morality standpoint. Although the Bobby Petrino folks (I was one for a time) make me think otherwise but that is probably just a knee jerk reaction from our fall from glory plus we were really scorned as fans last season and were grasping for instant fix.

Sidenote - It's always good to have a genuine man of the faith like Chette Williams in the program.

It works? Football finished dead last in the SEC, basketball finished dead last in the SEC and were it not for a one-run win over Georgia last night, baseball would be tied for dead last.

I don't know if JJ puts a potential coach's religious beliefs into hiring decisions or not, but his choices sure haven't "worked". I hope religion doesn't factor into his decisions but I have no way of knowing, one way or the other.

Sure I think you have a good point there and when I wrote that "it works for Au" I was thinking more in regards to football despite last season.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

I wish more people would simply live their lives in an effort to emulate the example of Christ rather than trying to make those teachings reconcile with their social and political views. I love all people but I have a special respect and fondness for those who helped me find Christ through their example, not through their preaching and even sometimes condemnation. In my very most humble opinion, the spirituality found in Christ is simply about love. The love of Christ is pure and we should try our best to extend it to our fellow human beings. Unfortunately, religion itself is not pure and too often does more harm than good. Religions have become too much like politics. They have been taken over by people who have ulterior motives and sometimes bad intentions. Again, this is strictly a humble opininon, I beleive too many Christians are trying to get to heaven by achieving something and missing the real lesson and example of Christ which is pure and perfect love. In the eyes of Christ, I don't believe any of our achievements mean much other than our ability to feel and project His love.

[telling tiger 156]

I wish more people would simply live their lives in an effort to emulate the example of Christ rather than trying to make those teachings reconcile with their social and political views. I love all people but I have a special respect and fondness for those who helped me find Christ through their example, not through their preaching and even sometimes condemnation. In my very most humble opinion, the spirituality found in Christ is simply about love. The love of Christ is pure and we should try our best to extend it to our fellow human beings. Unfortunately, religion itself is not pure and too often does more harm than good. Religions have become too much like politics. They have been taken over by people who have ulterior motives and sometimes bad intentions. Again, this is strictly a humble opininon, I beleive too many Christians are trying to get to heaven by achieving something and missing the real lesson and example of Christ which is pure and perfect love. In the eyes of Christ, I don't believe any of our achievements mean much other than our ability to feel and project His love.

This should end the morning sermon. Extraordinarily well said.The rhetoric and words mean nothing to me. The life example led means everything.

[alexava 6,973]

I wish more people would simply live their lives in an effort to emulate the example of Christ rather than trying to make those teachings reconcile with their social and political views. I love all people but I have a special respect and fondness for those who helped me find Christ through their example, not through their preaching and even sometimes condemnation. In my very most humble opinion, the spirituality found in Christ is simply about love. The love of Christ is pure and we should try our best to extend it to our fellow human beings. Unfortunately, religion itself is not pure and too often does more harm than good. Religions have become too much like politics. They have been taken over by people who have ulterior motives and sometimes bad intentions. Again, this is strictly a humble opininon, I beleive too many Christians are trying to get to heaven by achieving something and missing the real lesson and example of Christ which is pure and perfect love. In the eyes of Christ, I don't believe any of our achievements mean much other than our ability to feel and project His love.

ouch, i might go to church after this. Nice.

[minister of music 0]

I say kill this thread. I quit AE for it allowing shady (grey area posts) but deleting mentioning of God because of individuals like the one who started this. Don't take sides AUBURNEAGLE with the those who are Hateful. Integrity and honesty and clean wholesome living is still Good. Morality is still Good. If i am here preaching,i need to understand it is a sports forum and be warned..(and i understand that already)..BUT don't overreact like AE....Please KILL THIS THREAD AND DO NOT ALLOW SUCH..It destroys this forum.

[alexava 6,973]

Just move it to politics and carry on.

[TeBoneAU 89]

I wish more people would simply live their lives in an effort to emulate the example of Christ rather than trying to make those teachings reconcile with their social and political views. I love all people but I have a special respect and fondness for those who helped me find Christ through their example, not through their preaching and even sometimes condemnation. In my very most humble opinion, the spirituality found in Christ is simply about love. The love of Christ is pure and we should try our best to extend it to our fellow human beings. Unfortunately, religion itself is not pure and too often does more harm than good. Religions have become too much like politics. They have been taken over by people who have ulterior motives and sometimes bad intentions. Again, this is strictly a humble opininon, I beleive too many Christians are trying to get to heaven by achieving something and missing the real lesson and example of Christ which is pure and perfect love. In the eyes of Christ, I don't believe any of our achievements mean much other than our ability to feel and project His love.

I totallyagree Very well said. Do I think AU is too religious NO, but thats my opinion. Is JJ hiring only men that he considers Christians or of a certain faith I don't know and until he admits to such a practice everything else is just pure speculation. All I know is I have been in positions that requires me to hire people for jobs. Religion was not part of the interview process but respecting others, having some morals and character was part of the process. IMHO everyone should have respect for others and their views.

[AU64 10,122]

So Oregon fans didn't mind losing the game, it was the idea that God was on our side that bothered them?....gonna lose sleep over that?

[war eagle6 0]

I say kill this thread. I quit AE for it allowing shady (grey area posts) but deleting mentioning of God because of individuals like the one who started this. Don't take sides AUBURNEAGLE with the those who are Hateful. Integrity and honesty and clean wholesome living is still Good. Morality is still Good. If i am here preaching,i need to understand it is a sports forum and be warned..(and i understand that already)..BUT don't overreact like AE....Please KILL THIS THREAD AND DO NOT ALLOW SUCH..It destroys this forum.

This is why bama hates AU so much because we give praises to GOD and we all no who they praise over there. They also are very deep in secret societies in turdville. Jesus did say people will hate those that serve him, well I say let them hate!! WDE

[JMassie11 1,610]

Seeing that I believe not having God in our schools is one of our countries biggest problems no I don't have an issue with hiring men og faith

[AU64 10,122]

I'm sure lots of people would put me on the Christian radical right but I doubt God has time to intervene in the outcome of sporting events BUT if any of the participants think God was a help....who am I to tell them to think otherwise.I guess people get their personal strength from different sources but I do wonder when an atheist's worlb collapses in misery and pain, who does that person blame?

[BornaTiger 0]

Some folks in this thread are trolls of the highest caliber.

Others have offered valid and quite candid opinions of this topic. They did so without questioning others and I, for one, applaud those who approached it this way.

Shame on the folks who tried do derail this open topic with their head in the sand approach.

Try being pro-active instead of re-active.

Sorry, just a few dolts around here and its become the norm for them to dissect others rather than offer their own opinion.

/rant

[TheBlueVue 177]

Some folks in this thread are trolls of the highest caliber.

Others have offered valid and quite candid opinions of this topic. They did so without questioning others and I, for one, applaud those who approached it this way.

Shame on the folks who tried do derail this open topic with their head in the sand approach.

Try being pro-active instead of re-active.

Sorry, just a few dolts around here and its become the norm for them to dissect others rather than offer their own opinion.

/rant

Interesting comment. I don't think the topic has a right or wrong answer. Is Auburn's AD too religious? Its very interesting someone would be moved to post that. Personally, I'm not a religious person in any sense of the word but I have no problem allowing everyone a wide berth when it comes to matters of faith. I don't judge a person one way or the other whether they profess to be a believer an agnostic or a non-believer. That being said, if a coach is called to share his faith, its not going to be a matter of concern to me if another group of fans have an issue with that. That's on them and their need to judge. Here's what I think. I think what Auburn's coaches do is just fine with me and I have no problem with it. I would also have no problem if they felt no calling whatsoever to mention what they believe but obviously people see things from different perspectives. It could be, but I don't know, the people who don't like what the coaches are doing don't believe any of it anyway and you know what? That's not a problem either but I'm not going to make an issue of that by starting a thread about it.

[kingfish 73]

Character and moral integrity are not mutually exclusive of being a great coach, as a matter of fact I would say they complement each other....Saban notwithstanding (whole different subject). Religiousness is also no guarantee of character or moral integrity. The Pharisees were very religious.

You make a very good point here. The Pharisees were extremely religious. Jesus got onto them worse than He got onto anybody else. Jesus said the Pharisees were proud; they were hypocrites; they did things in public for people to see in an attempt to think good things of them; they were not sincere in praying; they were blind guides; they tithed but omitted the weighter things of the law; they were like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness. Jesus said they were witnesses against themselves ... Jesus called them serpents, brood of vipers ... and asked the question"How can you escape the condemnation of hell.?" -- Matthew 23rd chapter

There is a vast difference in being religious and being a true Christian. Being a true Christian is a matter of the heart. Being religious is man's attempt to reach God in his own determined way and not the way God provided which is through His Son.

Can a person be too religious? Absolutely

Can a person too devout as a Christian? No way for this is a matter of the heart.

[DyeHardAllTheWay 0]

Would you explain to me what being "a bit too religious" means?

I know it rubbed some Oregon fans the wrong way, when Chizik praised God, and then completely omitted the opposing team for their fine effort. It was seen as if God allowed Auburn to win because we were on HIS side. But the greater point is, being religious is all well and good, but if that DOESN'T happen to be your primary public persona, or all you really want to do on Auburn time is play football and get an education, why must you also be forced to get religious indoctrination, or take part in prayers while on the field, in practice, after watching video tape, in the weight room, what ever ?

When did Auburn begin forcing matters of faith on its players? I disagree with that assumption. Frankly, this isn't even a viable topic IMO. I don't judge people on matters of faith and have no problem with those who embrace their faith in being vocal about it. For the record, I'm not religious at all. I am a Christian and I do believe that Christian principles will serve anyone well in life. Sharing a way of life is not forcing it. Do you honestly believe those players who participated in prayer on the field were forced to do that? Good Lord..I sure hope not. I tend to believe they did that on their own.

Last I checked, "sharing a religion" wasn't in the job description for being a football coach. I'm a little troubled when I see articles like this, and in several interviews, coaches like Melvin Smith and Charlie Harbison mention Gus as a "man of faith", and how they plan on teaching Christian values. They need to be coaching all the time, not having bible study on the side. It's the role of the player's family to influence them religiously, and having a coach wear their religion on their sleeve like so many of ours do is frankly out of line.

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

The terms "Men of God" and "Men of character" are not synonymous. If character is being assessed in hirings, fine. If religious preferences, or lack of same are a factor, we're being stupid.

100% agree.

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

I, for one, think it's refreshing that religion is a factor. Don't get me wrong, I'm not blind to the fact that we'd hire satan if he would win football games, and I don't mean Saban. I mean we would hire questionable character to win, I think. If 'Man of God' is a good way to describe someone, then I'm glad we use it as a descriptor. Call me old fashioned, but I think this country could use more "Men of God" in public settings. At least they have some sort of something guiding decisions being made. (Don't misconstrue that last sentence, please. Yes, we all make mistakes, but at least some of us try.)

I get your point and do think it would be nice to have more good examples of "Men of God." I think there are a lot of examples of coaches that are "Men of God"...it's just that some may not express/advertise it more to the public than other coaches. I think far as coaches go...Auburn has had a good record of hiring coaches that are described as "Good Men" and "Men of God."

Some coaches just may choose to display their religous convictions more to the coaches and players who are around him on a daily basis verses in front of the media. Who says that Saban is not a Christian man? Sure he is tough nose coach and he may have not ever been heard of speaking about his religion on camera but Bama doesn't pay him to do that. Saban is actually a very active Cathloic. I think it is a personal choice for a HC if he wants to do so or not. http://www.al.com/living/index.ssf/2013/01/alabama_rivals_notre_dame_in_m.html

When it came to Chiz...I felt like some looked more at the fact that he was a good Christian man vs. a good coach on to keep him or not. It's no secret that you can have both. Chiz was just more vocal with his Christianity which i have no problem with if he did or didn't but it wasn't a reason to keep him as a HC. Auburn is a public university...not Notre Dame or BYU. Of course, this is the bible belt and religion is very important to us but just b/c a coach doesn't quote bible verses or mention GOD in his statements doesn't mean he is not a man of GOD....he's just doing his job as a HC IMO.

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

Too religious? No, but tinkering on the edge.

I think Auburn as a whole (Lee County) but also in particular within the athletic department are constantly on the cusp of being overly conservative christian but it is also something that sets us apart in an odd way. Au does seem to hire a certain type of man but it works, besides,I believe the collective consciousness of the Auburn family would not accept anyone else. Right or wrong as it may or may not be we are not the Crimson turds and generally are very choosy about our coaches from a character and morality standpoint. Although the Bobby Petrino folks (I was one for a time) make me think otherwise but that is probably just a knee jerk reaction from our fall from glory plus we were really scorned as fans last season and were grasping for instant fix.

Sidenote - It's always good to have a genuine man of the faith like Chette Williams in the program.

What do you mean by we are not the Crimson turds?

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

Yes it was overplayed a little. I am not a openly religious jesus freak. I am not offended by those who are, but it can be over the top if it is constantly pushed on people who are not ready for it or people who prefer it as personal and private. I am thinking it is being toned down a little, quietly.

Tim Tebow?

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

All of us draw a line in the sand somewhere. I appreciate a religious influence in the AD mainly because a moral and ethical compass comes with it. I have an appreciation for JJ's faith, but he should not get a free pass because of it or give one to a HC because of theirs either.

Yep! That was my point when i heard people saying "Well Chiz is a Good Christian Man." as a reason to keep him. All that is well and dandy but he sucks as a HC so get a another "Good Man" that can win football games.

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

By all means we should avoid offending people. Our next coach should be an asexmual.multi-racial agnostic in a "committed relationship". That should keep everyone happy

whether the person can coach or not.

Those people still exisist?!