This is not an immigration issue, but a refugee crisis

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Kirsten Powers: (Border) children's stories

The children I met and their testimonies speak of a refugee disaster.

Has America lost its humanity? I have to wonder after spending time with some of the Central American children at the center of our latest loud and ugly immigration debate.

While people throughout our country are demanding these tens of thousands of children be turned away at the border or flown back to some of the most violent countries in the world, the voices of the children involved are rarely heard. Federal rules, intended to stop the children from becoming political pawns, have backfired.

As long as journalists are blocked from learning the children's true stories, the debate will be dominated by caricatures as partisans fill in the blanks with their hopes and fears instead of the facts.

The kids who talked to me

The children I met are being temporarily housed on the campus of an East Coast Christian organization that serves at-risk youth. (I have agreed to keep their names private along with identifying details of the group caring for them.)

I met about 60 kids who arrived in the past three months — ranging from age 11 to 17 — in an auditorium where they shared their stories. They said they had all fled their home countries alone or with a sibling. They described perilous journeys that included clinging to the top of trains and riding in flatbed trucks, mostly in the dark of night. Five of the girls had traveled with their infants, and told harrowing tales of crossing the Rio Grande clutching their babies. Some came with the help of "coyotes" or smugglers, some not. Two 15-year-old boys said they walked from El Salvador alone.

These weren't rehearsed stories from children who have been coached on what to say to serve some agenda. If you were there, you could feel how real they were.

Their stories were accompanied by heart-wrenching sobbing. One 17-year-old Honduran girl shakily recounted how on the trip to the U.S., she watched a leader of the infamous Zeta cartel murder a man who didn't have enough money for the trip. Then, she said, the Zeta leader raped the murdered man's wife.

This kind of violence and horror unfortunately is not new for these children. The countries from which they are fleeing — Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador — are some the most dangerous regions in the world.

They shared story after story of being terrorized by gang violence.

One 16-year-old Honduran boy could barely speak through tears as he told how "gangsters said my cousin and I had to sell drugs with them and we said no. They took us to a cemetery and put a bullet through my cousin's head. They let me go and said the same thing would happen to me if I didn't sell drugs."

So he and his brother fled.

Not limited to U.S.

While Republicans claim that President Obama's immigration policy is luring these children to the United States, this is detached from reality:

First, countries in the region that are not beset by gang violence or staggering murder rates, such as Nicaragua, are not seeing a mass exodus of children.

Second, it's not just the U.S. that is experiencing an influx. There has been a 712% increase since 2008 in asylum applications from people from El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala to Mexico, Panama, Nicaragua, Costa Rica and Belize.

The administrators housing the children told me that the hundreds of unaccompanied minors they've held since 2012 were uniformly well behaved. They've seen no issues with gangs, drugs or runaways.

One said, "The children are so grateful to be in America, to have clean clothes and beds and food."

The Bible studies and church services the organization provides aren't mandatory, but there is full attendance.

Grant asylum

Yet protests against the children have erupted across the country, including demands that these children not be provided housing in particular communities, as if they are dangerous criminals.

Many political leaders are arguing they should be sent back to the country they escaped. Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer said, "They should be sent home. They are illegal."

But it's not illegal to request asylum. What we are dealing with here is not an immigration problem, but a refugee crisis. The additional border agents or National Guard troops the GOP is screaming for make no sense because the children surrender as soon as they cross the border. They aren't trying to sneak in; they are trying to gain asylum.

They've chosen the United States because about 90% of them have a family member or family friend here with whom they can live.

They also might have heard that the United States is a refuge for the persecuted and a beacon of hope to those who yearn to breathe free.

Or, at least, we used to be.

Kirsten Powers writes weekly for USA TODAY.

http://www.usatoday....olumn/13014889/

[AUDub 11,136]

Thanks for posting this, Titan.

[autigeremt 6,589]

She's right to point out the obvious, but we can't continue to be central Americas welfare state. They have to get their house cleaned up and soon! We cannot afford, literally, to continue deal with immigrants....legal or illegal, in the ways that we do.

[AUTUmike 79]

Good points, but I think it is both a humanitarian and immigration issue. And to a lesser extent--albeit an important one--it is a security issue.

[AURaptor 1,122]

If that's the case, then well over 1/2 the planet is a potential refugee crisis.

Not our problem and should not be up to us to fix for them.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

If that's the case, then well over 1/2 the planet is a potential refugee crisis.

Not our problem and should not be up to us to fix for them.

I'm sorry, I can't be a heartless bastard like that. We don't have to go round up half the planet. But when kids show up on our doorstep like this, "ship them back" isn't a solution.

[Strychnine 1,802]

I'm sorry, I can't be a heartless bastard like that. We don't have to go round up half the planet. But when kids show up on our doorstep like this, "ship them back" isn't a solution.

More importantly, this has a lot to do with our war on drugs and the expansion of Mexican cartels into Central America. It might not be our problem to necessarily fix, but some of our own policies have created and exacerbated this problem. Gangs and cartels, like any organization, lose their power when their source of income begins to dry up.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

"While Republicans claim that President Obama's immigration policy is luring these children to the United States, this is detached from reality:

First, countries in the region that are not beset by gang violence or staggering murder rates, such as Nicaragua, are not seeing a mass exodus of children.

Second, it's not just the U.S. that is experiencing an influx. There has been a 712% increase since 2008 in asylum applications from people from El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala to Mexico, Panama, Nicaragua, Costa Rica and Belize."

This aint what I heared on Rush and Hannerty. That aint what Rick Perry is sayin. This here is barrys doins.

[AUFAN78 3,892]

Very nice article Titan. Thank you for posting!

[cooltigger21 0]

If that's the case, then well over 1/2 the planet is a potential refugee crisis.

Not our problem and should not be up to us to fix for them.

I'm sorry, I can't be a heartless bastard like that. We don't have to go round up half the planet. But when kids show up on our doorstep like this, "ship them back" isn't a solution.

we don't have to invite them in either. There is one huge aspect to this that most people seem to ignore is the likelihood of a terrorist getting in. This is ripe for that. If we quit being the dumping ground for all these people then it is much more likely their home country would change how they operate.

[AURaptor 1,122]

If that's the case, then well over 1/2 the planet is a potential refugee crisis.

Not our problem and should not be up to us to fix for them.

I'm sorry, I can't be a heartless bastard like that. We don't have to go round up half the planet. But when kids show up on our doorstep like this, "ship them back" isn't a solution.

It's what I'd do. I think it'd be the right thing to do.

[Strychnine 1,802]

we don't have to invite them in either. There is one huge aspect to this that most people seem to ignore is the likelihood of a terrorist getting in. This is ripe for that. If we quit being the dumping ground for all these people then it is much more likely their home country would change how they operate.

Terrorists do not need to come in via our southern border with Mexico, and why would they want to? That is currently where all of the focus is. We have a far larger, and much more relaxed border with Canada and the ocean. Securing the border to the extent that illegals cannot cross it is cost-prohibitive at best, and impossible at worst. You cannot build a fence high enough, or man it with enough people.

The gangs, violence, and corruption that is causing these people to flee (or have their children flee) is a direct result of the massive drug corridor that Central America and Mexico now are. One could also argue that Cold War-era proxy wars set the stage for it as well. This puts us in a position of at least sharing responsibility for the long-term consequences of our policies in other countries. The people that are fleeing here, and the people still stuck in their home countries, are human beings. We have ignored it long enough, and now it is spilling over. We like to lecture other countries about human rights. Time to put our money where our mouth is.

[cooltigger21 0]

we don't have to invite them in either. There is one huge aspect to this that most people seem to ignore is the likelihood of a terrorist getting in. This is ripe for that. If we quit being the dumping ground for all these people then it is much more likely their home country would change how they operate.

Terrorists do not need to come in via our southern border with Mexico, and why would they want to? That is currently where all of the focus is. We have a far larger, and much more relaxed border with Canada and the ocean. Securing the border to the extent that illegals cannot cross it is cost-prohibitive at best, and impossible at worst. You cannot build a fence high enough, or man it with enough people.

The gangs, violence, and corruption that is causing these people to flee (or have their children flee) is a direct result of the massive drug corridor that Central America and Mexico now are. One could also argue that Cold War-era proxy wars set the stage for it as well. This puts us in a position of at least sharing responsibility for the long-term consequences of our policies in other countries. The people that are fleeing here, and the people still stuck in their home countries, are human beings. We have ignored it long enough, and now it is spilling over. We like to lecture other countries about human rights. Time to put our money where our mouth is.

So what is your solution? Keep it wide open? Why is everything wrong in the world always the fault of the United states. By the way fences work quite well. Combine that with other things like immediate deportation, employer penalties that have real teeth, allowing the BP and other agencies to actually do their job and you can very quickly secure our border. Put the military there if need be.

[AU-24 3,063]

If that's the case, then well over 1/2 the planet is a potential refugee crisis.

Not our problem and should not be up to us to fix for them.

I'm sorry, I can't be a heartless bastard like that. We don't have to go round up half the planet. But when kids show up on our doorstep like this, "ship them back" isn't a solution.

Taking them all in isn't the solution either. Sad but true. When does it stop? How many do we take in? How many years do we take them in? What do we do with them (by the thousands or hundreds of thousands) after we take them in?

Our financial house is so out of whack we can't afford our own welfare state, we simply can't add to it. So what is the solution? How many of these kids do each of us plan to adopt? 5 or 8 a-piece?

Not trying to be difficult in anyway, but do you understand my points?

[Strychnine 1,802]

Terrorists do not need to come in via our southern border with Mexico, and why would they want to? That is currently where all of the focus is. We have a far larger, and much more relaxed border with Canada and the ocean. Securing the border to the extent that illegals cannot cross it is cost-prohibitive at best, and impossible at worst. You cannot build a fence high enough, or man it with enough people.

The gangs, violence, and corruption that is causing these people to flee (or have their children flee) is a direct result of the massive drug corridor that Central America and Mexico now are. One could also argue that Cold War-era proxy wars set the stage for it as well. This puts us in a position of at least sharing responsibility for the long-term consequences of our policies in other countries. The people that are fleeing here, and the people still stuck in their home countries, are human beings. We have ignored it long enough, and now it is spilling over. We like to lecture other countries about human rights. Time to put our money where our mouth is.

So what is your solution? Keep it wide open? Why is everything wrong in the world always the fault of the United states. By the way fences work quite well. Combine that with other things like immediate deportation, employer penalties that have real teeth, allowing the BP and other agencies to actually do their job and you can very quickly secure our border. Put the military there if need be.

No, and I did not suggest that. What I am saying is that it is not a simple problem that can be corrected with simplistic thinking like "build a fence and send police/soldiers". Like all problems, it has a cause. In this case, that cause happens to have at least a little to do with us. That also happens to be true in many other parts of the world, where we have frequently chosen to intervene directly or clandestinely. Therefore, things frequently become the "fault of the United States" by our own choice.

Adding border security in this case is much like taking pain medication in hopes of it fixing a gunshot wound properly. Border security, immediate deportation, and employer penalties with teeth are certainly things worth exploring, but they are not going to address the cause of why we are needing to have this discussion in the first place.

[AU-24 3,063]

we don't have to invite them in either. There is one huge aspect to this that most people seem to ignore is the likelihood of a terrorist getting in. This is ripe for that. If we quit being the dumping ground for all these people then it is much more likely their home country would change how they operate.

Terrorists do not need to come in via our southern border with Mexico, and why would they want to? That is currently where all of the focus is. We have a far larger, and much more relaxed border with Canada and the ocean. Securing the border to the extent that illegals cannot cross it is cost-prohibitive at best, and impossible at worst. You cannot build a fence high enough, or man it with enough people.

The gangs, violence, and corruption that is causing these people to flee (or have their children flee) is a direct result of the massive drug corridor that Central America and Mexico now are. One could also argue that Cold War-era proxy wars set the stage for it as well. This puts us in a position of at least sharing responsibility for the long-term consequences of our policies in other countries. The people that are fleeing here, and the people still stuck in their home countries, are human beings. We have ignored it long enough, and now it is spilling over. We like to lecture other countries about human rights. Time to put our money where our mouth is.

No, this is not America's fault and we don't need to send our Pres all over the world to apologize for it. Our American system, Western Civ, (although not perfect) has created less poverty, and more wealth and prosperity than any system in the history of the world.

We are not to blame for the mass govt corruption in South and Central America. We offer Mexico "Free Trade" (Which Clinton supported and signed) that was supposed to create more middle class Mexicans along with other things and what happened? Complete corruption and overall failure! And this you say, is because we don't legalize drugs?

The difference between North and South Korea? South Korea played the American game and they are still playing, and doing pretty well. When will Mexico and South America play? They won't because their govt's are way to corrupt.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

we don't have to invite them in either. There is one huge aspect to this that most people seem to ignore is the likelihood of a terrorist getting in. This is ripe for that. If we quit being the dumping ground for all these people then it is much more likely their home country would change how they operate.

Terrorists do not need to come in via our southern border with Mexico, and why would they want to? That is currently where all of the focus is. We have a far larger, and much more relaxed border with Canada and the ocean. Securing the border to the extent that illegals cannot cross it is cost-prohibitive at best, and impossible at worst. You cannot build a fence high enough, or man it with enough people.

The gangs, violence, and corruption that is causing these people to flee (or have their children flee) is a direct result of the massive drug corridor that Central America and Mexico now are. One could also argue that Cold War-era proxy wars set the stage for it as well. This puts us in a position of at least sharing responsibility for the long-term consequences of our policies in other countries. The people that are fleeing here, and the people still stuck in their home countries, are human beings. We have ignored it long enough, and now it is spilling over. We like to lecture other countries about human rights. Time to put our money where our mouth is.

No, this is not America's fault and we don't need to send our Pres all over the world to apologize for it. Our American system, Western Civ, (although not perfect) has created less poverty, and more wealth and prosperity than any system in the history of the world.

We are not to blame for the mass govt corruption in South and Central America. We offer Mexico "Free Trade" (Which Clinton supported and signed) that was supposed to create more middle class Mexicans along with other things and what happened? Complete corruption and overall failure! And this you say, is because we don't legalize drugs?

The difference between North and South Korea? South Korea played the American game and they are still playing, and doing pretty well. When will Mexico and South America play? They won't because their govt's are way to corrupt.

I'm not sure I've seen such an example of responding to points that no one made in years.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

If that's the case, then well over 1/2 the planet is a potential refugee crisis.

Not our problem and should not be up to us to fix for them.

I'm sorry, I can't be a heartless bastard like that. We don't have to go round up half the planet. But when kids show up on our doorstep like this, "ship them back" isn't a solution.

Taking them all in isn't the solution either. Sad but true. When does it stop? How many do we take in? How many years do we take them in? What do we do with them (by the thousands or hundreds of thousands) after we take them in?

Our financial house is so out of whack we can't afford our own welfare state, we simply can't add to it. So what is the solution? How many of these kids do each of us plan to adopt? 5 or 8 a-piece?

Not trying to be difficult in anyway, but do you understand my points?

As the article said, 90% of these kids have relatives here they can live with and be taken care of. You're exaggerating the problem.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

If that's the case, then well over 1/2 the planet is a potential refugee crisis.

Not our problem and should not be up to us to fix for them.

I'm sorry, I can't be a heartless bastard like that. We don't have to go round up half the planet. But when kids show up on our doorstep like this, "ship them back" isn't a solution.

It's what I'd do. I think it'd be the right thing to do.

Choosing pharisaic rule-following over people in need is not the right thing to do.

[Strychnine 1,802]

No, this is not America's fault and we don't need to send our Pres all over the world to apologize for it. Our American system, Western Civ, (although not perfect) has created less poverty, and more wealth and prosperity than any system in the history of the world.

We are not to blame for the mass govt corruption in South and Central America. We offer Mexico "Free Trade" (Which Clinton supported and signed) that was supposed to create more middle class Mexicans along with other things and what happened? Complete corruption and overall failure! And this you say, is because we don't legalize drugs?

The difference between North and South Korea? South Korea played the American game and they are still playing, and doing pretty well. When will Mexico and South America play? They won't because their govt's are way to corrupt.

You are responding to something that I did not say. I did not say it was America's fault. I said we have a hand in it, and we do. I also did not say that the United States has been a bad influence everywhere we have gone, as that quite simply is not true. What I am saying, is that good deeds do not give us a free pass to ignore the consequences of bad deeds and bad policies. The drug cartels that have been carving a bloody swath through Mexico and Central America are not doing so for anything to do with free trade. They are doing it to monopolize drug corridors, which is where the real money is. Considering that our own government is not without corruption, it is hard to expect them not to be corrupt when there is that much drug money moving through the area.

[AU-24 3,063]

If that's the case, then well over 1/2 the planet is a potential refugee crisis.

Not our problem and should not be up to us to fix for them.

I'm sorry, I can't be a heartless bastard like that. We don't have to go round up half the planet. But when kids show up on our doorstep like this, "ship them back" isn't a solution.

Taking them all in isn't the solution either. Sad but true. When does it stop? How many do we take in? How many years do we take them in? What do we do with them (by the thousands or hundreds of thousands) after we take them in?

Our financial house is so out of whack we can't afford our own welfare state, we simply can't add to it. So what is the solution? How many of these kids do each of us plan to adopt? 5 or 8 a-piece?

Not trying to be difficult in anyway, but do you understand my points?

As the article said, 90% of these kids have relatives here they can live with and be taken care of. You're exaggerating the problem.

Still not answering the questions. How many, when, for how long? As I am sure you have to know, there are only so many relatives, with so many homes, with so many rooms and beds in the states.

You and I both know the answer, we simply can't take 65% of Mexico and 80% to 85% of South and Central America in. The Republicans and Democrats know that as well, so why will neither stop the flood? Of course, we know why.... they both want the Latino vote!

How does the poor 3rd world country of North Korean's secure their border? How do the wealthy Saudi's secure their border? How did the Romans, the French (they didn't do it very well) the Greeks secure their border?

Do you actually think the most powerful nation in the history of the world doesn't have the ability or means to secure it's Southern Border? Of course we can, but we won't, because it all comes down to politics.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Another question......for all who are so concerned about the kids, when they send them to your town how many will you volunteer to take into your home? I am concerned about the kids but they need to be sent home, not turned lose to disappear in the U.S.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Still not answering the questions. How many, when, for how long? As I am sure you have to know, there are only so many relatives, with so many homes, with so many rooms and beds in the states.

Well, one place said there have been 52,000 unaccompanied minors show up a the border since last October. Since it states that 90% of them have relatives to live with here already, that leaves about 5200 to work on. How long? Not sure. Working through asylum cases takes time unless you just don't give a s***. You're dealing with kids here...human beings...not a box of widgets.

You and I both know the answer, we simply can't take 65% of Mexico and 80% to 85% of South and Central America in. The Republicans and Democrats know that as well, so why will neither stop the flood? Of course, we know why.... they both want the Latino vote!

This just tells me you, at best, skimmed the article. Otherwise you wouldn't float red herrings out there like this.

How does the poor 3rd world country of North Korean's secure their border? How do the wealthy Saudi's secure their border? How did the Romans, the French (they didn't do it very well) the Greeks secure their border?

Can't speak for all the countries, but NK shoots people or captures and tortures them. I imagine the Saudi's aren't much better. Killing people indiscriminately is certainly cheaper than acting like a human person with a soul. Forgive me if I don't think they are good examples to pattern ourselves after.

Do you actually think the most powerful nation in the history of the world doesn't have the ability or means to secure it's Southern Border? Of course we can, but we won't, because it all comes down to politics.

There's always the means. You just have to decide how evil you want to be and/or what other items in the budget you want to steal from to do it.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Another question......for all who are so concerned about the kids, when they send them to your town how many will you volunteer to take into your home? I am concerned about the kids but they need to be sent home, not turned lose to disappear in the U.S.

Maybe. I think a country the size of the US can probably figure out how to accomodate 5000 or so kids that don't have relatives to live with.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Would you volunteer to take one or more into your house until those parents are found?