Police Militarization - A little more info

[Tigermike 3,023]

" ‘Militarization’ Critics Want to Review a Pentagon Program After Ferguson. But Police Get Gear This Way, Too."

http://dailysignal.com/2014/09/02/militarization-critics-want-to-review-a-pentagon-program-after-ferguson-but-police-get-gear-this-way-too

[cooltigger21 0]

This is a tricky subject. I am not really fond of military equipment in local police departments. At the same time the threat posed by gangs and drug cartels is higher and they are toting things like ak 47s and armor piercing ammo. I still remember the bank robbers in LA back in the 90's armed with military type weapons facing police with their 9mm handguns. There has to be a balance.

[Strychnine 1,802]

This is a tricky subject. I am not really fond of military equipment in local police departments. At the same time the threat posed by gangs and drug cartels is higher and they are toting things like ak 47s and armor piercing ammo. I still remember the bank robbers in LA back in the 90's armed with military type weapons facing police with their 9mm handguns. There has to be a balance.

When was the last time you saw some gangs walking the streets of the US, while openly carrying AK-47's?

[Tigermike 3,023]

This is a tricky subject. I am not really fond of military equipment in local police departments. At the same time the threat posed by gangs and drug cartels is higher and they are toting things like ak 47s and armor piercing ammo. I still remember the bank robbers in LA back in the 90's armed with military type weapons facing police with their 9mm handguns. There has to be a balance.

When was the last time you saw some gangs walking the streets of the US, while openly carrying AK-47's?

Gangs aren't likely to be sporting legal weapons, therefore they won't be walking around openly carrying AK's.

[Strychnine 1,802]

This is a tricky subject. I am not really fond of military equipment in local police departments. At the same time the threat posed by gangs and drug cartels is higher and they are toting things like ak 47s and armor piercing ammo. I still remember the bank robbers in LA back in the 90's armed with military type weapons facing police with their 9mm handguns. There has to be a balance.

When was the last time you saw some gangs walking the streets of the US, while openly carrying AK-47's?

Gangs aren't likely to be sporting legal weapons, therefore they won't be walking around openly carrying AK's.

I know. I don't envision gangs openly-carrying anything. I also couldn't tell you the last confirmed gang shooting involving an AK-47 in my state (Georgia), much less the rest of the nation. This tells me that while it may occur, it's not a frequent enough occurrence to be concerned with, and certainly not justification for why police departments need "tacticool" M4's.

[autigeremt 6,589]

This is a tricky subject. I am not really fond of military equipment in local police departments. At the same time the threat posed by gangs and drug cartels is higher and they are toting things like ak 47s and armor piercing ammo. I still remember the bank robbers in LA back in the 90's armed with military type weapons facing police with their 9mm handguns. There has to be a balance.

When was the last time you saw some gangs walking the streets of the US, while openly carrying AK-47's?

Gangs aren't likely to be sporting legal weapons, therefore they won't be walking around openly carrying AK's.

I know. I don't envision gangs openly-carrying anything. I also couldn't tell you the last confirmed gang shooting involving an AK-47 in my state (Georgia), much less the rest of the nation. This tells me that while it may occur, it's not a frequent enough occurrence to be concerned with, and certainly not justification for why police departments need "tacticool" M4's.

Not defending or being critical, but it depends on where you happen to live.

[Strychnine 1,802]

This is a tricky subject. I am not really fond of military equipment in local police departments. At the same time the threat posed by gangs and drug cartels is higher and they are toting things like ak 47s and armor piercing ammo. I still remember the bank robbers in LA back in the 90's armed with military type weapons facing police with their 9mm handguns. There has to be a balance.

When was the last time you saw some gangs walking the streets of the US, while openly carrying AK-47's?

Gangs aren't likely to be sporting legal weapons, therefore they won't be walking around openly carrying AK's.

I know. I don't envision gangs openly-carrying anything. I also couldn't tell you the last confirmed gang shooting involving an AK-47 in my state (Georgia), much less the rest of the nation. This tells me that while it may occur, it's not a frequent enough occurrence to be concerned with, and certainly not justification for why police departments need "tacticool" M4's.

Not defending or being critical, but it depends on where you happen to live.

Does it? Or does it get blurred by the law of the instrument?

[autigeremt 6,589]

This is a tricky subject. I am not really fond of military equipment in local police departments. At the same time the threat posed by gangs and drug cartels is higher and they are toting things like ak 47s and armor piercing ammo. I still remember the bank robbers in LA back in the 90's armed with military type weapons facing police with their 9mm handguns. There has to be a balance.

When was the last time you saw some gangs walking the streets of the US, while openly carrying AK-47's?

Gangs aren't likely to be sporting legal weapons, therefore they won't be walking around openly carrying AK's.

I know. I don't envision gangs openly-carrying anything. I also couldn't tell you the last confirmed gang shooting involving an AK-47 in my state (Georgia), much less the rest of the nation. This tells me that while it may occur, it's not a frequent enough occurrence to be concerned with, and certainly not justification for why police departments need "tacticool" M4's.

Not defending or being critical, but it depends on where you happen to live.

Does it? Or does it get blurred by the law of the instrument?

If you are an officer working near the southern border you had better be carrying an AR or M-16. The drug cartels and smugglers use military grade weapons and it's needed for protection. If you are in Mayberry a 38 special might be all you need.

Seriously, it's dependent on your threat assessment and probability of use. At least it should be.

[Strychnine 1,802]

This is a tricky subject. I am not really fond of military equipment in local police departments. At the same time the threat posed by gangs and drug cartels is higher and they are toting things like ak 47s and armor piercing ammo. I still remember the bank robbers in LA back in the 90's armed with military type weapons facing police with their 9mm handguns. There has to be a balance.

When was the last time you saw some gangs walking the streets of the US, while openly carrying AK-47's?

Gangs aren't likely to be sporting legal weapons, therefore they won't be walking around openly carrying AK's.

I know. I don't envision gangs openly-carrying anything. I also couldn't tell you the last confirmed gang shooting involving an AK-47 in my state (Georgia), much less the rest of the nation. This tells me that while it may occur, it's not a frequent enough occurrence to be concerned with, and certainly not justification for why police departments need "tacticool" M4's.

Not defending or being critical, but it depends on where you happen to live.

Does it? Or does it get blurred by the law of the instrument?

Seriously, it's dependent on your threat assessment and probability of use. At least it should be.

And that is the problem, "should be" is not always part of the discussion. That is what leads to units being deployed as they were in Ferguson, MO, and ultimately to this conversation.

[autigeremt 6,589]

This is a tricky subject. I am not really fond of military equipment in local police departments. At the same time the threat posed by gangs and drug cartels is higher and they are toting things like ak 47s and armor piercing ammo. I still remember the bank robbers in LA back in the 90's armed with military type weapons facing police with their 9mm handguns. There has to be a balance.

When was the last time you saw some gangs walking the streets of the US, while openly carrying AK-47's?

Gangs aren't likely to be sporting legal weapons, therefore they won't be walking around openly carrying AK's.

I know. I don't envision gangs openly-carrying anything. I also couldn't tell you the last confirmed gang shooting involving an AK-47 in my state (Georgia), much less the rest of the nation. This tells me that while it may occur, it's not a frequent enough occurrence to be concerned with, and certainly not justification for why police departments need "tacticool" M4's.

Not defending or being critical, but it depends on where you happen to live.

Does it? Or does it get blurred by the law of the instrument?

Seriously, it's dependent on your threat assessment and probability of use. At least it should be.

And that is the problem, "should be" is not always part of the discussion. That is what leads to units being deployed as they were in Ferguson, MO, and ultimately to this conversation.

It should be a part of the discussion before someone totally disarms police with proper defense mechanisms. The pendulum shouldn't be allowed to swing too far.

[cooltigger21 0]

This is a tricky subject. I am not really fond of military equipment in local police departments. At the same time the threat posed by gangs and drug cartels is higher and they are toting things like ak 47s and armor piercing ammo. I still remember the bank robbers in LA back in the 90's armed with military type weapons facing police with their 9mm handguns. There has to be a balance.

When was the last time you saw some gangs walking the streets of the US, while openly carrying AK-47's?

Gangs aren't likely to be sporting legal weapons, therefore they won't be walking around openly carrying AK's.

I know. I don't envision gangs openly-carrying anything. I also couldn't tell you the last confirmed gang shooting involving an AK-47 in my state (Georgia), much less the rest of the nation. This tells me that while it may occur, it's not a frequent enough occurrence to be concerned with, and certainly not justification for why police departments need "tacticool" M4's.

Not defending or being critical, but it depends on where you happen to live.

Does it? Or does it get blurred by the law of the instrument?

Seriously, it's dependent on your threat assessment and probability of use. At least it should be.

And that is the problem, "should be" is not always part of the discussion. That is what leads to units being deployed as they were in Ferguson, MO, and ultimately to this conversation.

It should be a part of the discussion before someone totally disarms police with proper defense mechanisms. The pendulum shouldn't be allowed to swing too far.

Thank you. You made the point much better than I did.

[Strychnine 1,802]

It should be a part of the discussion before someone totally disarms police with proper defense mechanisms. The pendulum shouldn't be allowed to swing too far.

Oh, I don't really disagree with that point. I do not advocate disarming the police, or drowning them in procedures that make it impossible for them to engage in self-defense. My point is that there was no real meaningful discussion held as they transitioned from mere sidearms to M4's and assault vehicles. Once an agency established the precedent of a legitimate need and application for a SWAT team, everyone had to have one. As we like to talk about in context with the military, mission creep set in and they became a warrant squad.

The interesting thing is that according to an interview I listened to on NPR (with a police academy director), the problem ultimately starts in their modern training methods and not the gear. I do not pretend to have all the answers for the application and armament of force in a modern US domestic police department, but I do say that we cannot necessarily trust their justification of it, and that their root training may ultimately be at fault.

[aubearcat 2,136]

When you respond to different types of situations everyday, that are always fluid, you want to have the tools you MAY need whether you use them or not. Think of an officer responding to an active shooter situation with possibly multiple shooters and all he had was the old .38 revolver. I'm sure you'd want the police to have every gadget available if you had a loved one in need. Long guns (M4 carbines) are accurate from a greater distance and can quell the situation much faster than attempting to take longer shots with a side arm. The rifles and equipment are very mission specific. It's not like Joe officer is jumping from his patrol car with a rifle and raid gear on every day-to-day call. I can tell you from experience, there are more criminals with high powered rifles than you could imagine. And yes, you can carry a collapsible stock AK/SKS in your baggy pants while walking down the street. BTW, our carbines are not part of the government's program or departmental issue, we have to purchase them if we have them.

[WarTim 3,456]

BTW.....When was the last time I heard of gangs openly carrying assault weapons?........Chicago-every single day...

[autigeremt 6,589]

This program has also allowed the disbursement of body armor which is important for police officers on the street.