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NYT, Pedophilia a disorder, not a crime.


cooltigger21

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How many times have we conservatives been called looney for suggesting that this kind of thing was coming down the pike? The only surprise is that it came now. I thought it would take a few more years yet. This is only the first step to making it ok.

http://www.nytimes.c...crime.html?_r=0

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How many times have we conservatives been called looney for suggesting that this kind of thing was coming down the pike? The only surprise is that it came now. I thought it would take a few more years yet. This is only the first step to making it ok.

http://www.nytimes.c...crime.html?_r=0

They're right. Being a pedophile in and of itself is not a crime. Acting on those urges, however, is a crime.

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How many times have we conservatives been called looney for suggesting that this kind of thing was coming down the pike? The only surprise is that it came now. I thought it would take a few more years yet. This is only the first step to making it ok.

http://www.nytimes.c...crime.html?_r=0

They're right. Being a pedophile in and of itself is not a crime. Acting on those urges, however, is a crime.

Well we've never locked up anyone for being a pedophile. We only locked them up when they committed the act. I know you will disagree on this but there was a reason for this editorial and that reason was to start us down the road to accepting that as being normal and ok. It was the same way with homosexuality and look at where we are now with that.
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Well we've never locked up anyone for being a pedophile. We only locked them up when they committed the act.

And the editorial addresses that. We're focusing too much on punishment rather than prevention.

I know you will disagree on this but there was a reason for this editorial and that reason was to start us down the road to accepting that as being normal and ok. It was the same way with homosexuality and look at where we are now with that.

I do disagree. The purpose of the article isn't to normalize sexual assault. It's to point out that, hey, this is a thing we need to address in a different way. These people are sick and need help.

As for the homosexual thing. No, it wasn't the same way.

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"Pedophilia could result from a failure in the brain to identify which environmental stimuli should provoke a sexual response."

If this is true wouldn't anyone who was not sexually attracted in the "normal" manner, which for purposes of argument we will say is the opposite sex also have a disorder? I thought they had moved away from that. I say this because of the way it is worded "which enviromental stimuli SHOULD provoke a sexual response." How can you say that homosexuality is normal if this is not? I'm playing devils advocate here before anyone gets there panties in a wad. I agree..this is a slippery slope and I will be the first to say if someone touches one of my nieces or nephews they will disappear and will never be found.

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Well, certainly legally there is a difference between contemplating an act, having obsessive thoughts about an act, vs. actually committing an act. We don't arrest persons for fantasizing or having thoughts of murder or rape either. I don't think the article was a step toward "normalizing" or condoning pedophilia, but rather a call for greater access to medical/psychiatric help in hopes of preventing actual acts. If therapy can stop any would-be rapist, murderer, or pedophile from acting out on their inner demons, I'm all in favor of it.

Comparing homosexuality to pedophilia or bestiality is always a false analogy. Normal homosexual relationships represent consensual acts between informed consenting adults, otherwise it's rape. In cases of pedophilia or bestiality, the victim is not capable of giving informed consent. Comparing homosexuality to either is a red herring or a reductio ad absurdum argument in the gay rights debate!

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If this is true wouldn't anyone who was not sexually attracted in the "normal" manner, which for purposes of argument we will say is the opposite sex also have a disorder? I thought they had moved away from that. I say this because of the way it is worded "which enviromental stimuli SHOULD provoke a sexual response." How can you say that homosexuality is normal if this is not? I'm playing devils advocate here before anyone gets there panties in a wad. I agree..this is a slippery slope and I will be the first to say if someone touches one of my nieces or nephews they will disappear and will never be found.

Mental disorders as defined by the APA are sensitive to cultural norms, legal and ethical considerations. Pedophilia quite possibly could be considered "normal" in the sense that it isn't necessarily infrequent, but those three considerations firmly classify it as a disorder.

It is possible to have a fulfilling, healthy homosexual relationship. The same can not be said when one party is incapable of informed consent. They can be physically and psychologically harmful.

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Well, certainly legally there is a difference between contemplating an act, having obsessive thoughts about an act, vs. actually committing an act. We don't arrest persons for fantasizing or having thoughts of murder or rape either. I don't think the article was a step toward "normalizing" or condoning pedophilia, but rather a call for greater access to medical/psychiatric help in hopes of preventing actual acts. If therapy can stop any would-be rapist, murderer, or pedophile from acting out on their inner demons, I'm all in favor of it.

Comparing homosexuality to pedophilia or bestiality is always a false analogy. Normal homosexual relationships represent consensual acts between informed consenting adults, otherwise it's rape. In cases of pedophilia or bestiality, the victim is not capable of giving informed consent. Comparing homosexuality to either is a red herring or a reductio ad absurdum argument in the gay rights debate!

I agree. I just thought the way that was worded could easily be twisted. As I said Devils Advocate. I agree in pedophilia (lets not talk about bestiality cuz its just...ugh..gag reflex) that children cannot give consent. I also know that some Di^&^%head will be charged with this somewhere down the line and try to prove that the child gave consent. I am afraid that some judge will actually agree somewhere down the line. I know that sounds crazy, but look at the judge in Montana who claimed the 14 year old was much older mentally than her chronological age and therefore wasn't raped.

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If this is true wouldn't anyone who was not sexually attracted in the "normal" manner, which for purposes of argument we will say is the opposite sex also have a disorder? I thought they had moved away from that. I say this because of the way it is worded "which enviromental stimuli SHOULD provoke a sexual response." How can you say that homosexuality is normal if this is not? I'm playing devils advocate here before anyone gets there panties in a wad. I agree..this is a slippery slope and I will be the first to say if someone touches one of my nieces or nephews they will disappear and will never be found.

Mental disorders as defined by the APA are sensitive to cultural norms, legal and ethical considerations. Pedophilia quite possibly could be considered "normal" in the sense that it isn't necessarily infrequent, but those three considerations firmly classify it as a disorder.

It is possible to have a fulfilling, healthy homosexual relationship. The same can not be said when one party is incapable of informed consent. They can be physically and psychologically harmful.

I agree homosexuality and pedophilia are not equal. Homosexuality will hurt no one except those practicing it so long as rape is not involved. Pedophilia is a different thing altogether. My only concern with this push from the opinion piece is that when someone is on trial they will not be punished as they should be.

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Well, certainly legally there is a difference between contemplating an act, having obsessive thoughts about an act, vs. actually committing an act. We don't arrest persons for fantasizing or having thoughts of murder or rape either. I don't think the article was a step toward "normalizing" or condoning pedophilia, but rather a call for greater access to medical/psychiatric help in hopes of preventing actual acts. If therapy can stop any would-be rapist, murderer, or pedophile from acting out on their inner demons, I'm all in favor of it.

Comparing homosexuality to pedophilia or bestiality is always a false analogy. Normal homosexual relationships represent consensual acts between informed consenting adults, otherwise it's rape. In cases of pedophilia or bestiality, the victim is not capable of giving informed consent. Comparing homosexuality to either is a red herring or a reductio ad absurdum argument in the gay rights debate!

I agree. I just thought the way that was worded could easily be twisted. As I said Devils Advocate. I agree in pedophilia (lets not talk about bestiality cuz its just...ugh..gag reflex) that children cannot give consent. I also know that some Di^&^%head will be charged with this somewhere down the line and try to prove that the child gave consent. I am afraid that some judge will actually agree somewhere down the line. I know that sounds crazy, but look at the judge in Montana who claimed the 14 year old was much older mentally than her chronological age and therefore wasn't raped.

I have nothing against Devil's Advocates, often assuming that role myself, for the sake of furthering an interesting discussion. ;)

That Montana judge, by the way, was censured and suspended, but not sufficiently in my opinion:

http://guardianlv.co...ictims-suicide/

But in this day and age, I would not be surprised if someone tried to make the claim as you suggest.

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I agree homosexuality and pedophilia are not equal. Homosexuality will hurt no one except those practicing it so long as rape is not involved. Pedophilia is a different thing altogether. My only concern with this push from the opinion piece is that when someone is on trial they will not be punished as they should be.

The editorial does state that removing the inconsistencies in the legal and medical aspects of it would not undermine criminal justice's role. Punish those that commit the crime, but place an emphasis on keeping the crime from occurring to begin with.

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Well, certainly legally there is a difference between contemplating an act, having obsessive thoughts about an act, vs. actually committing an act. We don't arrest persons for fantasizing or having thoughts of murder or rape either. I don't think the article was a step toward "normalizing" or condoning pedophilia, but rather a call for greater access to medical/psychiatric help in hopes of preventing actual acts. If therapy can stop any would-be rapist, murderer, or pedophile from acting out on their inner demons, I'm all in favor of it.

Comparing homosexuality to pedophilia or bestiality is always a false analogy. Normal homosexual relationships represent consensual acts between informed consenting adults, otherwise it's rape. In cases of pedophilia or bestiality, the victim is not capable of giving informed consent. Comparing homosexuality to either is a red herring or a reductio ad absurdum argument in the gay rights debate!

I agree. I just thought the way that was worded could easily be twisted. As I said Devils Advocate. I agree in pedophilia (lets not talk about bestiality cuz its just...ugh..gag reflex) that children cannot give consent. I also know that some Di^&^%head will be charged with this somewhere down the line and try to prove that the child gave consent. I am afraid that some judge will actually agree somewhere down the line. I know that sounds crazy, but look at the judge in Montana who claimed the 14 year old was much older mentally than her chronological age and therefore wasn't raped.

I have nothing against Devil's Advocates, often assuming that role myself, for the sake of furthering an interesting discussion. ;)

That Montana judge, by the way, was censured and suspended, but not sufficiently in my opinion:

http://guardianlv.co...ictims-suicide/

But in this day and age, I would not be surprised if someone tried to make the claim as you suggest.

Devs Ad is the most interesting role to play often. Especially if you like to be a Shiznit Stirrer. Generally I don't but I'm in a mood today. I agree about the judge. I knew he had been but personally I think he should have been stripped of his judgeship. And I agree...its unfortunate that the fear of someone claiming a child is responsible for their own rape is actually not unfounded.

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Every sexual perversion known to man has people that want to claim it's all ok and actually quite normal. The militants on the left have pretty much succeeded in getting homosexuality normalized into the culture. Now it's time to move on to the next one and start the process all over again. That's one thing about liberals and the left. They can never be appeased and they will never stop pushing. Taxes can never be high enough to suit them. No moral perversion is beneath them.

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Every sexual perversion known to man has people that want to claim it's all ok and actually quite normal. The militants on the left have pretty much succeeded in getting homosexuality normalized into the culture. Now it's time to move on to the next one and start the process all over again. That's one thing about liberals and the left. They can never be appeased and they will never stop pushing. Taxes can never be high enough to suit them. No moral perversion is beneath them.

Its unfortunate but I agree with you completely. The thing that makes me angry about it is that many of them are discriminatory in the reverse be don't see that as a problem. Whats right for me is wrong for thee.

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:glare:

Why should I even bother coming up with a position on anything if y'all are going to come up with it for me?

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How many times have we conservatives been called looney for suggesting that this kind of thing was coming down the pike? The only surprise is that it came now. I thought it would take a few more years yet. This is only the first step to making it ok.

http://www.nytimes.c...crime.html?_r=0

They're right. Being a pedophile in and of itself is not a crime. Acting on those urges, however, is a crime.

I'd say we've lapsed into splitting hairs with this comment. Pedophilia is a sexual perversion wherein children are the preferred sexual object. That in my mind is predicated upon the act itself...not the mere imagined preference.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pedophilia

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How many times have we conservatives been called looney for suggesting that this kind of thing was coming down the pike? The only surprise is that it came now. I thought it would take a few more years yet. This is only the first step to making it ok.

http://www.nytimes.c...crime.html?_r=0

They're right. Being a pedophile in and of itself is not a crime. Acting on those urges, however, is a crime.

I'd say we've lapsed into splitting hairs with this comment. Pedophilia is a sexual perversion wherein children are the preferred sexual object. That in my mind is predicated upon the act itself...not the mere imagined preference.

http://www.merriam-w...nary/pedophilia

And you'd be wrong. Go read up on the subject. The preference is not imagined.

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How many times have we conservatives been called looney for suggesting that this kind of thing was coming down the pike? The only surprise is that it came now. I thought it would take a few more years yet. This is only the first step to making it ok.

http://www.nytimes.c...crime.html?_r=0

They're right. Being a pedophile in and of itself is not a crime. Acting on those urges, however, is a crime.

I'd say we've lapsed into splitting hairs with this comment. Pedophilia is a sexual perversion wherein children are the preferred sexual object. That in my mind is predicated upon the act itself...not the mere imagined preference.

http://www.merriam-w...nary/pedophilia

And you'd be wrong. Go read up on the subject. The preference is not imagined.

Whether it is or it isn't. Harboring a preference is not a crime ole buddy and that preference wont be known until it is manifest in the act of committing the sexual perversion. I dont give a damn about being right here but Im not a bleeding heart fool eager to make excuses for every perverse behavior on the planet like you are. Done. Sell someone who GAS. LOL

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Whether it is or it isn't. Harboring a preference is not a crime ole buddy and that preference wont be known until it is manifest in the act of committing the sexual perversion.

By this line of reasoning, you wouldn't be aware you were straight until you had sex. Plenty of pedophiles that haven't offended are well aware there's something wrong with them. The stigma we attach to it makes it nigh impossible for them to get help.

I dont give a damn about being right here...

Clearly. Better to remain wrong.

...but Im not a bleeding heart fool eager to make excuses for every perverse behavior on the planet like you are. Done. Sell someone who GAS. LOL

Understanding something is not excusing it. How about not commenting if you're just here to be an ass?

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How many times have we conservatives been called looney for suggesting that this kind of thing was coming down the pike? The only surprise is that it came now. I thought it would take a few more years yet. This is only the first step to making it ok.

http://www.nytimes.c...crime.html?_r=0

They're right. Being a pedophile in and of itself is not a crime. Acting on those urges, however, is a crime.

Well we've never locked up anyone for being a pedophile. We only locked them up when they committed the act. I know you will disagree on this but there was a reason for this editorial and that reason was to start us down the road to accepting that as being normal and ok. It was the same way with homosexuality and look at where we are now with that.

Let's assume for the sake of debate there is some sort of technical equivalence between what causes pedophilia and homosexuality.

Where's the crime in homosexual activity? Who's the victim if two homosexuals get married for example?

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If this is true wouldn't anyone who was not sexually attracted in the "normal" manner, which for purposes of argument we will say is the opposite sex also have a disorder? I thought they had moved away from that. I say this because of the way it is worded "which enviromental stimuli SHOULD provoke a sexual response." How can you say that homosexuality is normal if this is not? I'm playing devils advocate here before anyone gets there panties in a wad. I agree..this is a slippery slope and I will be the first to say if someone touches one of my nieces or nephews they will disappear and will never be found.

Mental disorders as defined by the APA are sensitive to cultural norms, legal and ethical considerations. Pedophilia quite possibly could be considered "normal" in the sense that it isn't necessarily infrequent, but those three considerations firmly classify it as a disorder.

It is possible to have a fulfilling, healthy homosexual relationship. The same can not be said when one party is incapable of informed consent. They can be physically and psychologically harmful.

I agree homosexuality and pedophilia are not equal. Homosexuality will hurt no one except those practicing it so long as rape is not involved. Pedophilia is a different thing altogether. My only concern with this push from the opinion piece is that when someone is on trial they will not be punished as they should be.

Why do you assume that? Anti-social personality disorder is not considered a mitigating factor for murder (for example).

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Every sexual perversion known to man has people that want to claim it's all ok and actually quite normal. The militants on the left have pretty much succeeded in getting homosexuality normalized into the culture. Now it's time to move on to the next one and start the process all over again. That's one thing about liberals and the left. They can never be appeased and they will never stop pushing. Taxes can never be high enough to suit them. No moral perversion is beneath them.

Its unfortunate but I agree with you completely. The thing that makes me angry about it is that many of them are discriminatory in the reverse be don't see that as a problem. Whats right for me is wrong for thee.

Kass you can't be serious. You agree completely?!

That was a sad - if not disturbing - rant. There's not a rational sentence in it.

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How many times have we conservatives been called looney for suggesting that this kind of thing was coming down the pike? The only surprise is that it came now. I thought it would take a few more years yet. This is only the first step to making it ok.

http://www.nytimes.c...crime.html?_r=0

They're right. Being a pedophile in and of itself is not a crime. Acting on those urges, however, is a crime.

I'd say we've lapsed into splitting hairs with this comment. Pedophilia is a sexual perversion wherein children are the preferred sexual object. That in my mind is predicated upon the act itself...not the mere imagined preference.

http://www.merriam-w...nary/pedophilia

That's because you don't understand the point. This is about the reasons someone might desire to comment such an act. To think those reasons (urges) don't exist prior to the act itself is, well, irrational.

Do you think a perfectly normal person just walking down the street has a sudden spontaneous urge to kidnap a child for the purposes of sex? Is this something that just anyone might do? :-\

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Every sexual perversion known to man has people that want to claim it's all ok and actually quite normal. The militants on the left have pretty much succeeded in getting homosexuality normalized into the culture. Now it's time to move on to the next one and start the process all over again. That's one thing about liberals and the left. They can never be appeased and they will never stop pushing. Taxes can never be high enough to suit them. No moral perversion is beneath them.

Its unfortunate but I agree with you completely. The thing that makes me angry about it is that many of them are discriminatory in the reverse be don't see that as a problem. Whats right for me is wrong for thee.

Kass you can't be serious. You agree completely?!

That was a sad - if not disturbing - rant. There's not a rational sentence in it.

I said it was unfortunate..lol..I was raised to believe homosexuality is wrong and I do. I cannot make people believe in God, or Jesus, or the Bible. I can only tell them what I believe and hope that it plants a seed as they tell us to do. Many don't like it but I firmly believe in love the sinner, hate the sin. I have friends who are gay, I had a gay family member. I don't look at them any differently than I would you. I don't agree with the lifestyle but I don't condemn them for it. It is not for me to do. No sin is bigger than any other, gluttony is right on par with murder and lying etc.. The Bible says to remove the plank from your eye before worrying about the speck in your brothers so thats what I do.

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Every sexual perversion known to man has people that want to claim it's all ok and actually quite normal. The militants on the left have pretty much succeeded in getting homosexuality normalized into the culture. Now it's time to move on to the next one and start the process all over again. That's one thing about liberals and the left. They can never be appeased and they will never stop pushing. Taxes can never be high enough to suit them. No moral perversion is beneath them.

Its unfortunate but I agree with you completely. The thing that makes me angry about it is that many of them are discriminatory in the reverse be don't see that as a problem. Whats right for me is wrong for thee.

Kass you can't be serious. You agree completely?!

That was a sad - if not disturbing - rant. There's not a rational sentence in it.

I said it was unfortunate..lol..I was raised to believe homosexuality is wrong and I do. I cannot make people believe in God, or Jesus, or the Bible. I can only tell them what I believe and hope that it plants a seed as they tell us to do. Many don't like it but I firmly believe in love the sinner, hate the sin. I have friends who are gay, I had a gay family member. I don't look at them any differently than I would you. I don't agree with the lifestyle but I don't condemn them for it. It is not for me to do. No sin is bigger than any other, gluttony is right on par with murder and lying etc.. The Bible says to remove the plank from your eye before worrying about the speck in your brothers so thats what I do.

I agree it's unfortunate if you agree with irrational propositions. So you agree with each sentence?

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