Proud Tiger 4,261 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Only 5 more days until mid term elections. It's getting nasty on both sides. I guess that reflects the polarization of our country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooltigger21 0 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 It always gets like this. It's not really a new thing. Actually some of what goes on today is mild compared to political races in the early days of this nation. Jefferson and Adams comes to mind as a prime example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icanthearyou 4,462 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 It always gets like this. It's not really a new thing. Actually some of what goes on today is mild compared to political races in the early days of this nation. Jefferson and Adams comes to mind as a prime example. Do you mean Jefferson and Hamilton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlueVue 177 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 It always gets like this. It's not really a new thing. Actually some of what goes on today is mild compared to political races in the early days of this nation. Jefferson and Adams comes to mind as a prime example. Some in this forum act like partisan politics is brand new to this nation but a brief glance at history doesn't bear that out. Partisan politics has been a part of the political process since the emergence of the 2 party system and played a huge role in shaping our constitutional republic Several historians have even argued that partisanship was much worse early on than it is now. It is what it is and it will never go away because of the stark contrasts and divergence of the respective philosophies of governance that exists between the parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icanthearyou 4,462 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 It always gets like this. It's not really a new thing. Actually some of what goes on today is mild compared to political races in the early days of this nation. Jefferson and Adams comes to mind as a prime example. Some in this forum act like partisan politics is brand new to this nation but a brief glance at history doesn't bear that out. Partisan politics has been a part of the political process since the emergence of the 2 party system and played a huge role in shaping our constitutional republic Several historians have even argued that partisanship was much worse early on than it is now. It is what it is and it will never go away because of the stark contrasts and divergence of the respective philosophies of governance that exists between the parties. Some members of this forum act as though they are the only ones who have ever read a book. They cannot comprehend the difference between a political debate based on fundamental principle and a debate based on phony ideology. Some people cannot grasp the difference between the founders, who were more loyal to their country, and beliefs, than their party. The simplistic understanding of these posters cannot comprehend the difference between men who were genuinely concerned for their country and it's future versus men/women who are primarily concerned with themselves, their party, and their party's largest donors. There is a big difference between deeply held convictions and hollow rhetoric. There is a big difference between principles that create a party and, the populist rhetoric manufactured for the sole purposes of unifying the base and, bringing in more contributions. It is insulting to our founders to compare them to today's opportunists. It is very sad that, for the most part, we are not capable of seeing the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooltigger21 0 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 It always gets like this. It's not really a new thing. Actually some of what goes on today is mild compared to political races in the early days of this nation. Jefferson and Adams comes to mind as a prime example. Some in this forum act like partisan politics is brand new to this nation but a brief glance at history doesn't bear that out. Partisan politics has been a part of the political process since the emergence of the 2 party system and played a huge role in shaping our constitutional republic Several historians have even argued that partisanship was much worse early on than it is now. It is what it is and it will never go away because of the stark contrasts and divergence of the respective philosophies of governance that exists between the parties. Some members of this forum act as though they are the only ones who have ever read a book. They cannot comprehend the difference between a political debate based on fundamental principle and a debate based on phony ideology. Some people cannot grasp the difference between the founders, who were more loyal to their country, and beliefs, than their party. The simplistic understanding of these posters cannot comprehend the difference between men who were genuinely concerned for their country and it's future versus men/women who are primarily concerned with themselves, their party, and their party's largest donors. There is a big difference between deeply held convictions and hollow rhetoric. There is a big difference between principles that create a party and, the populist rhetoric manufactured for the sole purposes of unifying the base and, bringing in more contributions. It is insulting to our founders to compare them to today's opportunists. It is very sad that, for the most part, we are not capable of seeing the difference. Just because you don't like conservatives ICHY doesn't mean their beliefs aren't deeply held. Go read your history books. Political campaigns in the early days of this nation were nasty and that wasn't just because of differing beliefs. There were personal attacks and misrepresentations and even sometimes violence or the threat of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icanthearyou 4,462 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 It always gets like this. It's not really a new thing. Actually some of what goes on today is mild compared to political races in the early days of this nation. Jefferson and Adams comes to mind as a prime example. Some in this forum act like partisan politics is brand new to this nation but a brief glance at history doesn't bear that out. Partisan politics has been a part of the political process since the emergence of the 2 party system and played a huge role in shaping our constitutional republic Several historians have even argued that partisanship was much worse early on than it is now. It is what it is and it will never go away because of the stark contrasts and divergence of the respective philosophies of governance that exists between the parties. Some members of this forum act as though they are the only ones who have ever read a book. They cannot comprehend the difference between a political debate based on fundamental principle and a debate based on phony ideology. Some people cannot grasp the difference between the founders, who were more loyal to their country, and beliefs, than their party. The simplistic understanding of these posters cannot comprehend the difference between men who were genuinely concerned for their country and it's future versus men/women who are primarily concerned with themselves, their party, and their party's largest donors. There is a big difference between deeply held convictions and hollow rhetoric. There is a big difference between principles that create a party and, the populist rhetoric manufactured for the sole purposes of unifying the base and, bringing in more contributions. It is insulting to our founders to compare them to today's opportunists. It is very sad that, for the most part, we are not capable of seeing the difference. Just because you don't like conservatives ICHY doesn't mean their beliefs aren't deeply held. Go read your history books. Political campaigns in the early days of this nation were nasty and that wasn't just because of differing beliefs. There were personal attacks and misrepresentations and even sometimes violence or the threat of it. Who said I don't like conservatives? I consider myself conservative. I don't like phony conservatives and their made up, divisive rhetoric. If it makes you feel better to belief that the politics of our founders is the same as today's partisanship, feel free. One thing though, if it is the same, where are all the principled statesmen? Is there anyone in either party you would identify as a principled statesman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlueVue 177 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 It always gets like this. It's not really a new thing. Actually some of what goes on today is mild compared to political races in the early days of this nation. Jefferson and Adams comes to mind as a prime example. Some in this forum act like partisan politics is brand new to this nation but a brief glance at history doesn't bear that out. Partisan politics has been a part of the political process since the emergence of the 2 party system and played a huge role in shaping our constitutional republic Several historians have even argued that partisanship was much worse early on than it is now. It is what it is and it will never go away because of the stark contrasts and divergence of the respective philosophies of governance that exists between the parties. Some members of this forum act as though they are the only ones who have ever read a book. They cannot comprehend the difference between a political debate based on fundamental principle and a debate based on phony ideology. Some people cannot grasp the difference between the founders, who were more loyal to their country, and beliefs, than their party. The simplistic understanding of these posters cannot comprehend the difference between men who were genuinely concerned for their country and it's future versus men/women who are primarily concerned with themselves, their party, and their party's largest donors. There is a big difference between deeply held convictions and hollow rhetoric. There is a big difference between principles that create a party and, the populist rhetoric manufactured for the sole purposes of unifying the base and, bringing in more contributions. It is insulting to our founders to compare them to today's opportunists. It is very sad that, for the most part, we are not capable of seeing the difference. Just because you don't like conservatives ICHY doesn't mean their beliefs aren't deeply held. Go read your history books. Political campaigns in the early days of this nation were nasty and that wasn't just because of differing beliefs. There were personal attacks and misrepresentations and even sometimes violence or the threat of it. Some folks find the truth just too damn inconvenient to be bothered with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autigeremt 6,569 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 It always gets like this. It's not really a new thing. Actually some of what goes on today is mild compared to political races in the early days of this nation. Jefferson and Adams comes to mind as a prime example. Do you mean Jefferson and Hamilton? LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooltigger21 0 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Ichy you are thinking of the duel between Aaron Burr and Hamilton, while not part of a campaign, was originated in politcal disputes that became personal.. The campaign between Jefferson and Adams in 1800 was nasty and filled with accusations flying back and forth just like most campaigns today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icanthearyou 4,462 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Ichy you are thinking of the duel between Aaron Burr and Hamilton, while not part of a campaign, was originated in politcal disputes that became personal.. The campaign between Jefferson and Adams in 1800 was nasty and filled with accusations flying back and forth just like most campaigns today. No, I am referring to the oldest political argument in our history that originated between Hamilton and Jefferson, how big and how powerful should the federal government be. Federalists vs. anti-Federalists, later the Democratic-Republicans. In 1800, the biggest rift was between the Federalists themselves. From what I have read, some historians consider our original partisanship stemming from the basic disagreement between Federalists and Democratic-Republicans but most, consider true partisanship becoming the nature of politics during the Jacksonian period. Despite their differences, I believe Jefferson had much more respect for Adams than his own VP, Burr. Again, from what I have read, Jefferson and Adams did not always agree but, found common ground. If I am not mistaken they were friends after their time in office. I think you also have to take into account the basic differences between their backgrounds, the merchant culture on New England, and the planters of the south. I think Jefferson and Adams were instrumental in bringing these groups together before the Revolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlueVue 177 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Ichy you are thinking of the duel between Aaron Burr and Hamilton, while not part of a campaign, was originated in politcal disputes that became personal.. The campaign between Jefferson and Adams in 1800 was nasty and filled with accusations flying back and forth just like most campaigns today. Good luck with ichy. His mind has been made up for a long time and you aren't going to change it. He shouted at me for weeks and weeks about partisan politics destroying America and pretty much had a hissy fit when I proved that partisan politics is as old as America itself and regardless of his whining it wont be going away. The funniest thing about his delusion is he honestly believes that HE is the absolute arbiter of what is real partisanship and what is "empty rhetoric" as he calls it. Well, I guess he does know a thing or two about empty rhetoric being as liberal as he is. I dont see conservatives demagoguing racism, income inequality, global warming or a war on women. Its the left that spews all the empty rhetoric but he whines on anyway as if he's got a point. :-\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icanthearyou 4,462 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Ichy you are thinking of the duel between Aaron Burr and Hamilton, while not part of a campaign, was originated in politcal disputes that became personal.. The campaign between Jefferson and Adams in 1800 was nasty and filled with accusations flying back and forth just like most campaigns today. Good luck with ichy. His mind has been made up for a long time and you aren't going to change it. He shouted at me for weeks and weeks about partisan politics destroying America and pretty much had a hissy fit when I proved that partisan politics is as old as America itself and regardless of his whining it wont be going away. The funniest thing about his delusion is he honestly believes that HE is the absolute arbiter of what is real partisanship and what is "empty rhetoric" as he calls it. Well, I guess he does know a thing or two about empty rhetoric being as liberal as he is. I dont see conservatives demagoguing racism, income inequality, global warming or a war on women. Its the left that spews all the empty rhetoric but he whines on anyway as if he's got a point. :-\ I'm trying to be as thoughtful and open-minded as you are Blue. BTW, how do you "shout" at someone in this venue? You are such a liar. Blue, read your last sentence again. There is no hollow rhetoric from the right? That is absurd. You have lost objectivity and therefore, credibility. I know, in your world, barry sux, libtards is dum. Here in the real world though, it is not quite that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud Tiger 4,261 Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 Reading thru this tread I realize that not only has our country become polarized, and in some cases people nasty to each other, but this forum is a small example of it. This is supposedly the Auburn Family yet look at how many times some are calling others liars, stupid, ignorant, etc, just because they disagree with their opinion on something. Sad to see but I guess we are a microcosm of the broader divide in the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooltigger21 0 Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Reading thru this tread I realize that not only has our country become polarized, and in some cases people nasty to each other, but this forum is a small example of it. This is supposedly the Auburn Family yet look at how many times some are calling others liars, stupid, ignorant, etc, just because they disagree with their opinion on something. Sad to see but I guess we are a microcosm of the broader divide in the country. It's nothing new. This has been going on ever since the beginning of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud Tiger 4,261 Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 ct...I guess that's true but I never saw it very much among Auburn people. I guess forums like this exposed your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlueVue 177 Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Reading thru this tread I realize that not only has our country become polarized, and in some cases people nasty to each other, but this forum is a small example of it. This is supposedly the Auburn Family yet look at how many times some are calling others liars, stupid, ignorant, etc, just because they disagree with their opinion on something. Sad to see but I guess we are a microcosm of the broader divide in the country. It's nothing new. This has been going on ever since the beginning of time. and it doesn't bother me one bit. In the case of those who do it in here, its usually the same lightweight trolls lashing out because they cant handle the truth. Its not a surprise, on the contrary, it has become completely expected especially from ichy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooltigger21 0 Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 ct...I guess that's true but I never saw it very much among Auburn people. I guess forums like this exposed your point. I have disagreements with people and not have it go off the rails. I have very little that I can agree on with some of the people on here, like Ben and homer but it doesn't become personal. It's just a good honest difference of opinion. It's really not as bad as it seems. I will admit to being human and letting certain people get to me but that's the beauty of the ignore feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud Tiger 4,261 Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 ct....I certainly wasn't thinking of you. But just watch how many here regularly call others unnecessary names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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