Scheme vs Skill vs Motivation

[AU Counsel 64]

Fire Johnson? Hire Muschamp? Why? When?

I don't think our problems are schematic. A 3-4 can be very effective, as can a 4-3 or 4-2-5. Recruiting services speak well about our defensive talent in terms of our last few classes. But whether our players are underperforming, not motivated or both, it is clear that status quo is not the answer. Now for a few issues and thoughts...

1. Why would we promote CRG when our defensive line has been the worst unit? We don't seem to stunt, twist, or do much of any thing besides get blocked and underperform. We have minimal pass rush and our guys (mostly juniors and seniors) take plays off. Our current recruiting here is mediocre for this class. Ford and Lawson anchored this unit last year. No one we have playing in the rotation this year draws double teams. I'm disappointed in Garner's coaching and recruiting both. Zero chance we elevate him.

2. CEJ has failed to motivate our guys. I hate that he coaches from the box. I hate that we limited contact in preseason practice. Muschamp's appeal here is his fire. Love your players, but make them loathe failure and yearn for success. Our guys quit. They aren't mentally sharp or tough enough to stay disciplined, stay focused and stay motivated. We need a motivator.

3. Where is the Gus of 2009 (besides the Kentucky game in 09)? If our QB needs our coaches to pre determine who keeps the ball on a zone read, we have the wrong coach or the wrong QB. I'm sick of inside runs with no misdirection on 3rd and long. Jet motion, orbit motion, play action passes without that weak front facing play fake no one buys, trick plays, bold play calling...since when did we get scared to win, and start playing not to lose on offense?

4. "Auburn Fast" in 2014 means at a moderate pace. I suspect this is more a function of the staff not trusting a certain backfield player and maybe one or two linemen. The hurry up no huddle is a joke in terms of our application of it. All that talk about 80+ plays a game. I don't care to ever hear it again unless we're actually going to do it. I actually love the concept. I think it's highly effective, but I don't think that Gus trusts Nick enough for the concept to truly flourish the way it can.

5. Frustration and loyalty. I love Auburn, but I'm definitely frustrated that we are once again coming two or three steps short of our potential this year. I'm all too used to that with us. Gus is human too though, and I really hope he learns the lessons necessary to take a big step forward next year.

To bring this rambling to a close, I think we have possibly more schematic problems with our offensive playcalling than our defensive play calling. Unless our guys are just overrated, I don't think the skills of our players are the issue. I think the bigger problem, especially on defense comes down to motivation. We need a coaching staff to convert of a tease guys to be disciplined than do their best. I don't care if you bring in some NFL defensive play calling wizard. If your college defensive coaches cannot motivate these young men to do their best, then we are going to underachieve significantly. If Gus is making a change, that's where it needs to occur, and finding someone on the defensive side of the ball you could actually inspire these guys to succeed.

[cooltigger21 0]

We lack enough quality defensive lineman right now. The last few classes have been underwhelming at that spot and I don't, as of right now, see it getting any better this year.

[mattarcara 0]

I don't know about scheme because our players' fundamentals are so bad that there is no way of knowing if the scheme works. I think motivation has recently become a problem, but not until the past couple of weeks. Our players are talented enough to be a fantastic football team, but they haven't been taught proper technique. On offense, it's difficult to be an aggressive play caller when you have third and 20 every time because of a Chad Slade or Shon Coleman holding.

[aucanucktiger 1,789]

Our problem on D is significantly schematic. Ellis lives and dies by his Star scheme because it's served him well outside the SEC West. His signature scheme requires a secondary that can play man on man most of the time and since he's had to face at most 2 or 3 NFL-in-waiting WRs over the entire year most if his career, he's not had to reel in NFL-caliber corners. The Star player must be a dominant, Lombardi looking player with marine leader skills. So all those things look very different facing a parade of videogame like offenses like he's facing working at Auburn (and no, neither Bama nor sec west were on the same planet as now, in the late 90s when he worked for the Tide). Ellis is stubbornly using a scheme his personnel doesn't and probably won't play up to in THIS division. In fairness to him, Moncrief and garrett not being all sec this season is on them. But, he's the DC.

[Milnewd 0]

Our problem on D is significantly schematic. Ellis lives and dies by his Star scheme because it's served him well outside the SEC West. His signature scheme requires a secondary that can play man on man most of the time and since he's had to face at most 2 or 3 NFL-in-waiting WRs over the entire year most if his career, he's not had to reel in NFL-caliber corners. The Star player must be a dominant, Lombardi looking player with marine leader skills. So all those things look very different facing a parade of videogame like offenses like he's facing working at Auburn (and no, neither Bama nor sec west were on the same planet as now, in the late 90s when he worked for the Tide). Ellis is stubbornly using a scheme his personnel doesn't and probably won't play up to in THIS division. In fairness to him, Moncrief and garrett not being all sec this season is on them. But, he's the DC.

You are wrong.

[cole256 17,039]

Our problem on D is significantly schematic. Ellis lives and dies by his Star scheme because it's served him well outside the SEC West. His signature scheme requires a secondary that can play man on man most of the time and since he's had to face at most 2 or 3 NFL-in-waiting WRs over the entire year most if his career, he's not had to reel in NFL-caliber corners. The Star player must be a dominant, Lombardi looking player with marine leader skills. So all those things look very different facing a parade of videogame like offenses like he's facing working at Auburn (and no, neither Bama nor sec west were on the same planet as now, in the late 90s when he worked for the Tide). Ellis is stubbornly using a scheme his personnel doesn't and probably won't play up to in THIS division. In fairness to him, Moncrief and garrett not being all sec this season is on them. But, he's the DC.

You sound like an angry uninformed fan

[Newbomb 193]

I am not a football coach I coach soccer coach but I have a point of discussion that I could add to this. The previous group of coaches had and expression that I have coopted for soccer. That expression is Alignment, Assignment, Execution.

With some thought I have considered the influence of these three aspects to coaching a system of play.

Alignment- Coaching do I have the players to play this alignment ? Once I have determined that I have the players for this alignment we should be able to play it. 100% on the Coach.

Assignment- The coach makes the individual assignments within the Alignment (My soccer 4-4-2 may not be the same as another coaches 4-4-2... The same might be said of one football coaches 3-4, 4-3, 4-2-5 vs another coaches). The coach must understand the individuals that he coaches are they capable of doing what is expected. Is the coach putting his players in a postion to be successful? The player must play within themselves and know their assignment when game time comes around. 60% on the coach 40% on the player.

Execution- When the rubber meets the road it is the players on the field that must do what they have been taught to them The coaches do not get out on the field with them. I understand that some midgame changes may effect execution but I would say at least 80% on the player and 20% on the coach.

Points of evaluation. Did the coach have the players to be succcessful in his scheme(alignment/assigment)? Could he have put the players in a scheme(alignment/assignment) that was better suited to their abilities? Does the coach have players maturing(or coming in via recruitment) that will allow him play a system that was not successful one season and use it for the next season with better results? Did the individual players use the techniques learned in practice and follow the expectations of alignment and assignment?

[Newbomb 193]

To the OP.... Not that I want Garner promoted but I have a couple of questions for you based on question # 1 of your post. You decry Garner for lack of recruiting but in the same breath you praise Lawson? Were not both Lawson and Adams garner recruits? On player development; did anyone on this board prior to last season see Ford as high NFL draft pick?

[cole256 17,039]

Not the OP, but I saw Dee Ford as a high draft pick as long as he stayed healthy and Lawson wasn't Garner's recruit. I'm sure he did a good job on Lawson once he was hired and helped tremendously but Lawson was pretty much sold on Auburn for Auburn and us being one of the first schools to recruit him. He actually had a little bad blood towards uga and their coaches

[cooltigger21 0]

Ok so we have the players and the coaches are putting them in the right spot but the players aren't executing. That seems to be the conventional wisdom here. So how do you fix that? Nobody is getting benched so that tells me that the 2nd line players are not up to the task either.

[Tiger 8,817]

Didn't Lawson not like Garner? Or Garner didn't want Lawson to come to UGA. IDK if it was a 3-4 thing or what

[cole256 17,039]

It was something like that.

[war eagle6 0]

Ok so we have the players and the coaches are putting them in the right spot but the players aren't executing. That seems to be the conventional wisdom here. So how do you fix that? Nobody is getting benched so that tells me that the 2nd line players are not up to the task either.

I don't think they are given a chance to prove themselves either. If a starter is not getting it done, then next man up to see what he can do. Tre Williams is talented enough to get more playing time than what he is given. I'm afraid tony Bridges won't be the last to decommit from us on the defensive side of the ball, he just got the ball rolling

[aucanucktiger 1,789]

Our problem on D is significantly schematic. Ellis lives and dies by his Star scheme because it's served him well outside the SEC West. His signature scheme requires a secondary that can play man on man most of the time and since he's had to face at most 2 or 3 NFL-in-waiting WRs over the entire year most if his career, he's not had to reel in NFL-caliber corners. The Star player must be a dominant, Lombardi looking player with marine leader skills. So all those things look very different facing a parade of videogame like offenses like he's facing working at Auburn (and no, neither Bama nor sec west were on the same planet as now, in the late 90s when he worked for the Tide). Ellis is stubbornly using a scheme his personnel doesn't and probably won't play up to in THIS division. In fairness to him, Moncrief and garrett not being all sec this season is on them. But, he's the DC.

You sound like an angry uninformed fan

brush the doritos off your belly junior.

[cooltigger21 0]

Ok so we have the players and the coaches are putting them in the right spot but the players aren't executing. That seems to be the conventional wisdom here. So how do you fix that? Nobody is getting benched so that tells me that the 2nd line players are not up to the task either.

I don't think they are given a chance to prove themselves either. If a starter is not getting it done, then next man up to see what he can do. Tre Williams is talented enough to get more playing time than what he is given. I'm afraid tony Bridges won't be the last to decommit from us on the defensive side of the ball, he just got the ball rolling

Is it the DC or the position coach that won't give the younger players the chance?

[war eagle6 0]

I think mainly the position coaches, but Ellis has to see this also. Who is it that coaches linebackers by the way? Hmmm

[aucanucktiger 1,789]

Our problem on D is significantly schematic. Ellis lives and dies by his Star scheme because it's served him well outside the SEC West. His signature scheme requires a secondary that can play man on man most of the time and since he's had to face at most 2 or 3 NFL-in-waiting WRs over the entire year most if his career, he's not had to reel in NFL-caliber corners. The Star player must be a dominant, Lombardi looking player with marine leader skills. So all those things look very different facing a parade of videogame like offenses like he's facing working at Auburn (and no, neither Bama nor sec west were on the same planet as now, in the late 90s when he worked for the Tide). Ellis is stubbornly using a scheme his personnel doesn't and probably won't play up to in THIS division. In fairness to him, Moncrief and garrett not being all sec this season is on them. But, he's the DC.

You are wrong.

we're breathlessly awaiting your elaboration, and please, something other than Cole's "your momma" responses...

[cole256 17,039]

Our problem on D is significantly schematic. Ellis lives and dies by his Star scheme because it's served him well outside the SEC West. His signature scheme requires a secondary that can play man on man most of the time and since he's had to face at most 2 or 3 NFL-in-waiting WRs over the entire year most if his career, he's not had to reel in NFL-caliber corners. The Star player must be a dominant, Lombardi looking player with marine leader skills. So all those things look very different facing a parade of videogame like offenses like he's facing working at Auburn (and no, neither Bama nor sec west were on the same planet as now, in the late 90s when he worked for the Tide). Ellis is stubbornly using a scheme his personnel doesn't and probably won't play up to in THIS division. In fairness to him, Moncrief and garrett not being all sec this season is on them. But, he's the DC.

You are wrong.

we're breathlessly awaiting your elaboration, and please, something other than Cole's "your momma" responses...

Lol@ you actually regarding yourself as one of the more intelligent posters regarding football....You of all people....hilarious

[meh130 1,043]

We lack enough quality defensive lineman right now. The last few classes have been underwhelming at that spot and I don't, as of right now, see it getting any better this year.

Defensive Tackles (2-Deep):

Gabe Wright: Rivals - 4 stars; Scout - 4 stars (Average 4 stars)

Montravius Adams: Rivals - 5 stars; Scout - 4 stars (Average 4.5 stars)

Angelo Blackson: Rivals - 3 stars; Scout - 4 stars (Average 3.5 stars)

Ben Bradley: Rivals - 4 stars; Scout - 4 stars (Average 4 stars)

DT Overall Average: 4 stars

Defensive Ends (2-Deep):

DaVonte Lambert: Rivals - 4 stars; Scout - 4 stars (Average 4 stars)

Elijah Daniel: Rivals - 4 stars; Scout - 4 stars (Average 4 stars)

Gimel President: Rivals - 3 stars; Scout - 3 stars (Average 3 stars)

LaDarius Owens: Rivals - 4 stars; Scout - 4 stars (Average 4 stars)

DE Overall Average: 3.75 stars

DL Overall Average: 3.875 stars

Raw talent is not the problem.

[AUFriction 1,179]

We lack enough quality defensive lineman right now. The last few classes have been underwhelming at that spot and I don't, as of right now, see it getting any better this year.

I usually don't comment here, but I had to say something about this. Your notion is completely inaccurate. Here are our Dline commits over the last few years:

Jeff Whitaker- 4 stars ranked 17th best DT in his class

Ladarious Owens- 4 stars ranked 14th best DE in his class

Gabe Wright- 4 stars ranked 3rd best DT in his class

Angelo Blackson- 4 stars ranked 14th best DT in his class

K Harrell- 3 stars ranked 39th best DE in his class (But he has pretty much never seen the field)

Gimel President- 3 stars ranked 38th best DE in his class

Carl Lawson- 5 stars ranked the 2nd best DE in his class

Montravius Adams- 4 stars ranked the 2nd best DT in his class

Elijah Daniel- 4 stars ranked the 4th best DE in his class

Ben Bradley- 4 stars ranked as one of the top JUCO DL in his class

Justin Thorton- 4 stars ranked as the 15th best DE in his class

Andrew Williams- 4 stars ranked as the 17th best DE in his class

Dontavius Russell- 4 stars ranked as the 14th best DT in his class

Devonte Lambert- 4 stars ranked as the number 1 JUCO DT in his class

Virtually all of our defensive line depth is made up of 4 star or better prospects and all but 2 were in the top 20 in their position in their class. While there may be other teams recruting better on the DL, it is hard to imagine that there are many teams recruiting better than us on the DL. Our DL during the Tubbs years was more disruptive with less talented players coming out of high school. If the Dline is our primary problem, this suggests two options: 1. Gardner isn't teaching them well. 2. We aren't scouting well (i.e. we are picking up busts). 3. We have great interior guys, but, without lawson, we haven't found an elite pass rusher. If the Dline is our problem, I think option three makes the most sense. So, we have talent, but we are missing talented pass rushers.

Personally, I think the Dline has done okay. The bigger problem is in coverage. Several teams have gone with the air raid mold of throwing the ball quickly against us (into the flats, on a screen, or on a slant). When the ball is released that quickly, the DL has very little impact on the play. It is on the linebackers and secondary to cover well, which isn't happening. Again, this could be a talent issue or a teaching issue. Personally, I think this is one of the more talented secondaries we have had in several years. I think the issue is technique and/or alignment in the secondary. Our db's look lost half the time.

[cooltigger21 0]

We lack enough quality defensive lineman right now. The last few classes have been underwhelming at that spot and I don't, as of right now, see it getting any better this year.

Defensive Tackles (2-Deep):

Gabe Wright: Rivals - 4 stars; Scout - 4 stars (Average 4 stars)

Montravius Adams: Rivals - 5 stars; Scout - 4 stars (Average 4.5 stars)

Angelo Blackson: Rivals - 3 stars; Scout - 4 stars (Average 3.5 stars)

Ben Bradley: Rivals - 4 stars; Scout - 4 stars (Average 4 stars)

DT Overall Average: 4 stars

Defensive Ends (2-Deep):

DaVonte Lambert: Rivals - 4 stars; Scout - 4 stars (Average 4 stars)

Elijah Daniel: Rivals - 4 stars; Scout - 4 stars (Average 4 stars)

Gimel President: Rivals - 3 stars; Scout - 3 stars (Average 3 stars)

LaDarius Owens: Rivals - 4 stars; Scout - 4 stars (Average 4 stars)

DE Overall Average: 3.75 stars

DL Overall Average: 3.875 stars

Raw talent is not the problem.

They're pretty much all juniors and sneiors I realize that we picked up a couple from juco but still going into next year we'll have a senior laden dl without much behind them in the way of freshmen and sophomores. This year so far isn't that hot. It could change. It better change. It's the pass rushers I'm mainly looking at.

[mom2kid 216]

This defense regressed significantly and it's somewhat baffling. There is enough talent on the team but it has not developed. There has been a lack of discipline. And for quite some time I've been very concerned with the D recruiting. Others know more about internal issues but I for one have become concerned enough to support a coaching change. And that means the DC and all the idiot ion coaches IMO. The entire D has played poorly and the entire D recruiting is lacking compared to O. I support Muschamp coming in and bringing his D staff

[meh130 1,043]

We lack enough quality defensive lineman right now. The last few classes have been underwhelming at that spot and I don't, as of right now, see it getting any better this year.

Virtually all of our defensive line depth is made up of 4 star or better prospects and all but 2 were in the top 20 in their position in their class. While there may be other teams recruting better on the DL, it is hard to imagine that there are many teams recruiting better than us on the DL. Our DL during the Tubbs years was more disruptive with less talented players coming out of high school. If the Dline is our primary problem, this suggests two options: 1. Gardner isn't teaching them well. 2. We aren't scouting well (i.e. we are picking up busts). 3. We have great interior guys, but, without lawson, we haven't found an elite pass rusher. If the Dline is our problem, I think option three makes the most sense. So, we have talent, but we are missing talented pass rushers.

Personally, I think the Dline has done okay. The bigger problem is in coverage. Several teams have gone with the air raid mold of throwing the ball quickly against us (into the flats, on a screen, or on a slant). When the ball is released that quickly, the DL has very little impact on the play. It is on the linebackers and secondary to cover well, which isn't happening. Again, this could be a talent issue or a teaching issue. Personally, I think this is one of the more talented secondaries we have had in several years. I think the issue is technique and/or alignment in the secondary. Our db's look lost half the time.

Great info, however I do think our DL play is a problem. I think it was Ole Miss, but I recall seeing three of our defensive linemen on the ground--not being blocked, but literally knocked on their backs--within one-half of a second during one Ole Miss play. It was our two DTs and the right DE. It was standard zone blocking by the OL--probably a zone read option play.

When your DL is getting pancaked, that is a problem.

[Newbomb 193]

Not the OP, but I saw Dee Ford as a high draft pick as long as he stayed healthy and Lawson wasn't Garner's recruit. I'm sure he did a good job on Lawson once he was hired and helped tremendously but Lawson was pretty much sold on Auburn for Auburn and us being one of the first schools to recruit him. He actually had a little bad blood towards uga and their coaches

G

Not the OP, but I saw Dee Ford as a high draft pick as long as he stayed healthy and Lawson wasn't Garner's recruit. I'm sure he did a good job on Lawson once he was hired and helped tremendously but Lawson was pretty much sold on Auburn for Auburn and us being one of the first schools to recruit him. He actually had a little bad blood towards uga and their coaches

Garner didn't run Lawson off and probably had to resell him on being his coach when Lawson felt dissed by Garner for not showing interest on behalf of Georgia

[cole256 17,039]

Right that's why I said I'm sure he did a good job when he got there but can't give him credit like he's the reason Lawson is here like Adams