Is This Shooting Justified?

[icanthearyou 4,462]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/26/tamir-rice-video-shows-co_n_6227552.html

[around4ever 4,139]

Hard to say yes or no. But again, the officers asked him three times to raise his hands and he wouldn't do it. Then the kid reaches into his waistband where the air soft gun was being hidden. There was no way for them to know it was an air soft pistol. If the kid raises his hands as requested, he is alive today.

[AUDub 11,131]

Poor kid. Looks like they didn't waste any time. I want to hear the audio.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

Poor kid. Looks like they didn't waste any time. I want to hear the audio.

I don't believe there is any.

[AUDub 11,131]

Poor kid. Looks like they didn't waste any time. I want to hear the audio.

I don't believe there is any.

There won't be for the surveillance video. I wonder if the car cam and mic were on.

[AUFAN78 3,889]

http://www.huffingto..._n_6227552.html

It doesn't look good. I do think we need more than this collapsed video to make a 100% certain determination.

[Elephant Tipper 430]

http://www.annistonstar.com/news/article_414e3ba4-6b8a-11e4-93e4-e38bdde7f325.html

Two Sundays ago I attended the funeral of the 24 year old son of good friends. He was shot to death by the police. David was having an emotional/psychological breakdown due to not taking his meds for a prolonged time. Other similarly challenged individuals often decline to take their meds because they want to be normal and taking meds make them feel as if they are viewed by others as being "defective", so he just quit taking them.

The police knew of David's medical situation and that his father, Brad, was in the process of having his son admitted since they were the ones to notify him. Less than 24 hours later David was dead.

If you read the story, then please change the words "hammer" to "rubber mallet" and "knife" to "box cutter". One notable fact about David's presence is that he had one leg that caused him to limp noticeably which compromised his ability to run.

There is a problem. Is it with the laws on the books, with law enforcement, or with medical ? That question will haunt his parents who loved him dearly.

By the way, David was a good person. He possessed the character you would ideally want in your son having come from a very loving home. David was admired by many. His mother knows that David is now with the Lord in heaven....without his limp and emotionally well.

Hopefully David's death, just as the young boy's from the video, will shed light on how to best help prevent similar tragedies.

One more fact, the police wore body cameras. The ABI is investigating.

Again, there is a problem and we need answers.

http://www.annistonstar.com/news/article_414e3ba4-6b8a-11e4-93e4-e38bdde7f325.html

[icanthearyou 4,462]

http://www.annistons...8bdde7f325.html

Two Sundays ago I attended the funeral of the 24 year old son of good friends. He was shot to death by the police. David was having an emotional/psychological breakdown due to not taking his meds for a prolonged time. Other similarly challenged individuals often decline to take their meds because they want to be normal and taking meds make them feel as if they are viewed by others as being "defective", so he just quit taking them.

The police knew of David's medical situation and that his father, Brad, was in the process of having his son admitted since they were the ones to notify him. Less than 24 hours later David was dead.

If you read the story, then please change the words "hammer" to "rubber mallet" and "knife" to "box cutter". One notable fact about David's presence is that he had one leg that caused him to limp noticeably which compromised his ability to run.

There is a problem. Is it with the laws on the books, with law enforcement, or with medical ? That question will haunt his parents who loved him dearly.

By the way, David was a good person. He possessed the character you would ideally want in your son having come from a very loving home. David was admired by many. His mother knows that David is now with the Lord in heaven....without his limp and emotionally well.

Hopefully David's death, just as the young boy's from the video, will shed light on how to best help prevent similar tragedies.

One more fact, the police wore body cameras. The ABI is investigating.

Again, there is a problem and we need answers.

http://www.annistons...8bdde7f325.html

Sad. Horrible. I wonder why the officers didn't call for backup, use a taser?

It also make me wonder about this former Philly police captain: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/25/ray-lewis-ferguson-protests_n_6223102.html

[cptau 169]

Firing 5 shots into him at close range, 3 feet seems very unusual. Typically the police don't allow anyone that close with a weapon. It's a tragedy.

The laws in Alabama may seem backward, but they were considered liberal at one time. Confining some one for mental issues was being abused at one time in most states. They made it harder to do because of civil rights abuses. Unfortunately there are people who really do need to be confined for evaluation and treatment. The Virginia Tech shooter is an example.

[AUUSN 823]

I'm saying not justified. When a kid is involved make sure, double sure, triple sure that he poses a serious threat before applying deadly force. Reaching into a waistband doesnt get you to deadly force. The movie American Sniper comes out in theaters this Christmas and the trailer reminds me of this.

AMERICAN SNIPER Trailer #1 (2014) Bradley Cooper,…: http://youtu.be/8ZtrhRRw53Y

[around4ever 4,139]

I'm saying not justified. When a kid is involved make sure, double sure, triple sure that he poses a serious threat before applying deadly force. Reaching into a waistband doesnt get you to deadly force. The movie American Sniper comes out in theaters this Christmas and the trailer reminds me of this.

AMERICAN SNIPER Trailer #1 (2014) Bradley Cooper,…:

http://youtu.be/8ZtrhRRw53Y

Adult or kid, white or black, when he reaches into his waistband where you see a gun, does he pose a serious threat? Or do you wait until he shoots to determine if he poses a serious threat?

[AUUSN 823]

I'm saying not justified. When a kid is involved make sure, double sure, triple sure that he poses a serious threat before applying deadly force. Reaching into a waistband doesnt get you to deadly force. The movie American Sniper comes out in theaters this Christmas and the trailer reminds me of this.

AMERICAN SNIPER Trailer #1 (2014) Bradley Cooper,…:

http://youtu.be/8ZtrhRRw53Y

Adult or kid, white or black, when he reaches into his waistband where you see a gun, does he pose a serious threat? Or do you wait until he shoots to determine if he poses a serious threat?

If it's a kid, I might even wait until he fires a round. What prevented the officer from rolling in open and take cover behind his door, shine that huge light he has to make sure? We have escalation of force procedures, he went straight to step three, applying deadly force.

[around4ever 4,139]

I'm saying not justified. When a kid is involved make sure, double sure, triple sure that he poses a serious threat before applying deadly force. Reaching into a waistband doesnt get you to deadly force. The movie American Sniper comes out in theaters this Christmas and the trailer reminds me of this.

AMERICAN SNIPER Trailer #1 (2014) Bradley Cooper,…:

http://youtu.be/8ZtrhRRw53Y

Adult or kid, white or black, when he reaches into his waistband where you see a gun, does he pose a serious threat? Or do you wait until he shoots to determine if he poses a serious threat?

If it's a kid, I might even wait until he fires a round. What prevented the officer from rolling in open and take cover behind his door, shine that huge light he has to make sure? We have escalation of force procedures, he went straight to step three, applying deadly force.

Maybe the officer did escalate it too quickly. It's hard to tell on the video what the kid was doing. The problem is we don't know nor do the authorities know exactly what happened. It is a shame and very sad.

[AUUSN 823]

I'm saying not justified. When a kid is involved make sure, double sure, triple sure that he poses a serious threat before applying deadly force. Reaching into a waistband doesnt get you to deadly force. The movie American Sniper comes out in theaters this Christmas and the trailer reminds me of this.

AMERICAN SNIPER Trailer #1 (2014) Bradley Cooper,…:

http://youtu.be/8ZtrhRRw53Y

Adult or kid, white or black, when he reaches into his waistband where you see a gun, does he pose a serious threat? Or do you wait until he shoots to determine if he poses a serious threat?

If it's a kid, I might even wait until he fires a round. What prevented the officer from rolling in open and take cover behind his door, shine that huge light he has to make sure? We have escalation of force procedures, he went straight to step three, applying deadly force.

Maybe the officer did escalate it too quickly. It's hard to tell on the video what the kid was doing. The problem is we don't know nor do the authorities know exactly what happened. It is a shame and very sad.

I hear you. One you squeeze that trigger the bullet is gone and cant be recalled.

[Mikey 16,545]

When a suspect refuses to obey direct instructions and retrieves a gun from his waistband the officer is pretty much going to shoot out of self-preservation. "Just a toy gun" is not part of the situation because there is no time to determine if the gun is a toy or not. If you defy a police order and then pull a gun, expect to get shot and rightfully so.

[Mikey 16,545]

I'm saying not justified. When a kid is involved make sure, double sure, triple sure that he poses a serious threat before applying deadly force. Reaching into a waistband doesnt get you to deadly force. The movie American Sniper comes out in theaters this Christmas and the trailer reminds me of this.

AMERICAN SNIPER Trailer #1 (2014) Bradley Cooper,…:

http://youtu.be/8ZtrhRRw53Y

Adult or kid, white or black, when he reaches into his waistband where you see a gun, does he pose a serious threat? Or do you wait until he shoots to determine if he poses a serious threat?

If it's a kid, I might even wait until he fires a round. What prevented the officer from rolling in open and take cover behind his door, shine that huge light he has to make sure? We have escalation of force procedures, he went straight to step three, applying deadly force.

You must think that a bullet from a kid won't kill you? "Wait until he fires a round" is saying some lawbreaker's life is worth more than yours. Also, a car door is not effective cover, bullets go right through car doors. I'd think anybody in the military would know that.

[AUUSN 823]

I'm saying not justified. When a kid is involved make sure, double sure, triple sure that he poses a serious threat before applying deadly force. Reaching into a waistband doesnt get you to deadly force. The movie American Sniper comes out in theaters this Christmas and the trailer reminds me of this.

AMERICAN SNIPER Trailer #1 (2014) Bradley Cooper,…:

http://youtu.be/8ZtrhRRw53Y

Adult or kid, white or black, when he reaches into his waistband where you see a gun, does he pose a serious threat? Or do you wait until he shoots to determine if he poses a serious threat?

If it's a kid, I might even wait until he fires a round. What prevented the officer from rolling in open and take cover behind his door, shine that huge light he has to make sure? We have escalation of force procedures, he went straight to step three, applying deadly force.

You must think that a bullet from a kid won't kill you? "Wait until he fires a round" is saying some lawbreaker's life is worth more than yours. Also, a car door is not effective cover, bullets go right through car doors. I'd think anybody in the military would know that.

Why so snarky? It's my opinion based on my ROE training. Just move on.

[alexava 6,973]

I also would not shoot a kid until he was firing. Those guys damnnear ran over him then blast him very quick. Stop short, protect yourself with the cover of the car or something and give him a chance to comply. It appeared he had no chance. Kids don't obey their teachers and parents that quickly much less cops. I think this is tragic and irresponsible. Racist. I don't know.

[AUUSN 823]

Is 1,300 dollars worth the price of a kid?

[Browning4AU 405]

*Edit* This post is longer than I intended. Sorry, but it's my $.02

What I wonder is how many of you are actually trained to take a life? Furthermore, how many of you judging these situations are put into these situations on a daily basis? There are also plenty of videos of cops being a moment too hesitant and getting beat or having their lives taken. Is there something wrong with the training cops have?- I don't know. Could they use more training?-Don't see how it could hurt. But, being prepared to take someone's life is a mindset and no matter how much training one gets, if you aren't truly prepared to do it, it can cost you yours. Let's say someone breaks in your house while you and your wife and kids are sleeping. You grab a gun and find the intruder, point it at him and for a split second think to yourself, "Oh God, I'm going to kill a man." The time it takes you to think that, you've likley lost your life and so have your wife and kids.

During some training I went through a few years ago they showed us a video of a cop that pulled over a man (in Georgia, I believe) for not wearing his seatbelt. The cop had been investigated sometime before for discharging his weapon on perpetrator. The man he pulled over had publicly made threats that if the cops pulled him over for not wearing his seatbelt he was going to shoot and kill them. During the traffic stop the man got out of his truck, never obeyed the police officer (seems to be a common theme in these recent cop shootings) went back to his truck, pulled out his own gun and shot the cop in excess of 10 times killing the cop. Because the cop had been investigated and didn't want to get in any more trouble, he was hesitant in shooting the man, and it cost him his life.

I said all that because it isn't for us, the public, to judge whether someone is right or wrong or justified in taking someones life. If you want to look at facts (at least the ones that are presented) and think that YOU would do something different that's fine. But I don't think it's anyone's place to judge a cop for being put in a s***ty situation and have to make a decision that, either way, will be a losing one.

[Browning4AU 405]

I'm saying not justified. When a kid is involved make sure, double sure, triple sure that he poses a serious threat before applying deadly force. Reaching into a waistband doesnt get you to deadly force. The movie American Sniper comes out in theaters this Christmas and the trailer reminds me of this.

AMERICAN SNIPER Trailer #1 (2014) Bradley Cooper,…:

http://youtu.be/8ZtrhRRw53Y

Adult or kid, white or black, when he reaches into his waistband where you see a gun, does he pose a serious threat? Or do you wait until he shoots to determine if he poses a serious threat?

If it's a kid, I might even wait until he fires a round. What prevented the officer from rolling in open and take cover behind his door, shine that huge light he has to make sure? We have escalation of force procedures, he went straight to step three, applying deadly force.

You must think that a bullet from a kid won't kill you? "Wait until he fires a round" is saying some lawbreaker's life is worth more than yours. Also, a car door is not effective cover, bullets go right through car doors. I'd think anybody in the military would know that.

Why so snarky? It's my opinion based on my ROE training. Just move on.

Based on escalation of force, a noncompliant "perpetrator" or person in question who reaches in his waistband for a gun, it's a completely justifiable shooting. I can't see the video so I don't know what happened. Just going by the posts above.

Terrorist organizations use young men and sometimes kids to suicide bomb crowded places. If you're a military patrol and you see a kid with a suicide vest on are you going to wait for him to put his thumb on the button and potentially harm hundreds of people? Difficult question, but these are all difficult situations.

[alexava 6,973]

*Edit* This post is longer than I intended. Sorry, but it's my $.02

What I wonder is how many of you are actually trained to take a life? Furthermore, how many of you judging these situations are put into these situations on a daily basis? There are also plenty of videos of cops being a moment too hesitant and getting beat or having their lives taken. Is there something wrong with the training cops have?- I don't know. Could they use more training?-Don't see how it could hurt. But, being prepared to take someone's life is a mindset and no matter how much training one gets, if you aren't truly prepared to do it, it can cost you yours. Let's say someone breaks in your house while you and your wife and kids are sleeping. You grab a gun and find the intruder, point it at him and for a split second think to yourself, "Oh God, I'm going to kill a man." The time it takes you to think that, you've likley lost your life and so have your wife and kids.

During some training I went through a few years ago they showed us a video of a cop that pulled over a man (in Georgia, I believe) for not wearing his seatbelt. The cop had been investigated sometime before for discharging his weapon on perpetrator. The man he pulled over had publicly made threats that if the cops pulled him over for not wearing his seatbelt he was going to shoot and kill them. During the traffic stop the man got out of his truck, never obeyed the police officer (seems to be a common theme in these recent cop shootings) went back to his truck, pulled out his own gun and shot the cop in excess of 10 times killing the cop. Because the cop had been investigated and didn't want to get in any more trouble, he was hesitant in shooting the man, and it cost him his life.

I said all that because it isn't for us, the public, to judge whether someone is right or wrong or justified in taking someones life. If you want to look at facts (at least the ones that are presented) and think that YOU would do something different that's fine. But I don't think it's anyone's place to judge a cop for being put in a s***ty situation and have to make a decision that, either way, will be a losing one.

There will eventually be people just like us on a jury or grand jury that will judge this. I need more information but judging by the video the cop had an ichy finger and the driver put the passenger in a bad position to begin with. Why in the hell were they driving on the grass and not in the parking/street area. This was a child and not a big child. yes i do respect LE i was raised by an LE officer. They are put i bad situations. THis imo was not a shoot or be shot situation. It looked like overreaction. Like i said i need more info but from what i see is not a hate crime but an error in judgement that cant be undone. Totally different from ferguson where an adult brought on his own demise.

[AUUSN 823]

Based on escalation of force, a noncompliant "perpetrator" or person in question who reaches in his waistband for a gun, it's a completely justifiable shooting. I can't see the video so I don't know what happened. Just going by the posts above.

Terrorist organizations use young men and sometimes kids to suicide bomb crowded places. If you're a military patrol and you see a kid with a suicide vest on are you going to wait for him to put his thumb on the button and potentially harm hundreds of people? Difficult question, but these are all difficult situations.

I get all of that but facts are facts and the police are losing the public. Unless they figure it out, it's going to get much worse.

http://www.propublica.org/article/deadly-force-in-black-and-white

[AUUSN 823]

The U.S. Could Learn a Lot About Domestic Policing From What it Preaches Abroad

There's a similar disconnect between practice at home and U.S. promotion abroad when it comes to "community policing," the idea that police should be representative of and accountable to the communities where they work. "Community policing programs reduce crime by making citizens partners in law enforcement," the USAID manual states, emphasizing the importance of making minorities and other disadvantaged groups a part of the justice system. In 1999, the Clinton White House touted its work helping create "opportunities in the new multi-ethnic Kosovo Police Service and the Kosovo Protection Corps." Butas of August of this year, 50 of the Ferguson Police Department's 53 members were white, in a two-thirds black community -- not exactly the ratio U.S. advisers advocated for Kosovo.

http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2014/11/26/the_us_could_learn_a_lot_about_domestic_policing_from_what_it_preaches_abroad?utm_content=buffere89f7&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

[around4ever 4,139]

Audio of the 9-1-1 call. One take away is the 9-1-1 operator needs more training. The caller says, "he may be a juvenile" and also says the gun "is probably fake"

http://www.latimes.c...-htmlstory.html

In another call that I have not found yet, the caller states that the perpetrator may be 20. So the police had a description but was not sure of who they were dealing with.