Jump to content

Tolerance is not enough, you must submit


TitanTiger

Recommended Posts

Cultural brownshirts throw their weight around again.

Officer in parade controversy speaks out on religious liberty

By Pat Reavy, Deseret News

Published: Tuesday, Feb. 24 2015 10:19 p.m. MST

Updated: Tuesday, Feb. 24 2015 10:19 p.m. MST

A former Salt Lake police officer is speaking out about the scrutiny he received after asking to switch assignments for the city's gay pride parade over the summer. Disagreeing with someone, he said, doesn't mean that you hate them.

SALT LAKE CITY — Eric Moutsos doesn't believe he should have to leave his personal convictions at home when he walks out the door to go to work — particularly his religious beliefs.

But his former boss, Salt Lake Police Chief Chris Burbank, says when an officer shows up to work for his department, that officer is expected to do their job. And if there is any hint that any personal biases may get in the way of doing their assigned duties, then that's a problem.

Moutsos was placed on leave in June after allegedly trying to switch assignments to avoid participating in the city's gay pride parade. He resigned from the force after his suspension became public.

On Monday, Moutsos issued a six-page statement about that experience, the first time the former Salt Lake police officer has told his side of the story.

In light of current debate on Utah's Capitol Hill concerning legislation to balance anti-discrimination with religious freedoms, Moutsos said he felt now was an important time to speak out.

At first, he wanted to remain anonymous. But after the Deseret News independently verified his identity, Moutsos agreed to an interview with his name being used.

By stepping forward, Moutsos hopes all sides can agree to come together, even if they don't see eye-to-eye on every issue.

"These issues need to be addressed. There are so many good people, no matter what it is you believe," he said. "I think what's happened here is that we're just getting more divisive on this issue. (Some might say) just because you may disagree with somebody means that you hate them. And that's just not true. Because I love people. I'll take a bullet for you. I'll protect you. But I will not advocate certain things in people's lives."

In June of 2014, the Salt Lake City Motor Squad Unit was asked to participate in the Utah Pride Parade in Salt Lake City, which included performing choreographed maneuvers on motorcycles.

Moutsos, a member of the unit, was told to participate. But because of his personal beliefs, he said he felt uncomfortable doing so.

Moutsos said he had no problem performing his duty to protect and serve. The officer had previously provided security as same-sex couples flocked to the Salt Lake City-County Building to be married following a federal court ruling legalizing same-sex marriage.

But in this case, Moutsos felt that what he was being asked to do was more for entertainment.

"I felt that by being an actual participant in the parade, I would be perceived to be supporting certain messages that were contrary to who I am," he said. "I will protect their parade. But I just don't want to be in the parade."

Moutsos said he sent an internal email asking to swap assignments with another officer. He said he was not opposed to providing traffic control for the parade and blocking streets for pedestrians.

But his request was denied.

"That's when I knew there was going to be a problem," he said.

Moutsos told his supervisor he was still willing to be part of the parade and sent an email saying he'd be ready for practice and to participate in the parade itself.

"Two days later I was brought into one of the commander's offices. They took my badge and my gun for discrimination. My sergeant then drove me home and took all of my equipment, said I could not perform as a police officer. I thought I was in a dream. I was devastated," he said.

Two days after being placed on administrative leave, Moutsos' story became worldwide news. Moutsos said he was immediately branded a "bigot" and knew he would no longer be able to work in Salt Lake City. He resigned from the department a short time later.

"I didn't know what I was going to do. I didn't think anyone would touch me," he said.

Since then, Moutsos has been hired by another Utah law enforcement agency. But he said the past six to seven months have been a "battle."

"I wanted to just hide," he said. "I think about it every single day. I haven't been able to sleep a full night's sleep."

Now Moutsos wants the public to know that reports saying he refused to work the parade were inaccurate.

"I have protected free speech events several times that I disagreed with. But I will protect them. I believe in the First Amendment — so much that even if I disagree with a particular message, I will still be there to protect it. Because without them being able to say what they want to say, I wouldn't be able to say what I want to say.

"It wasn't about protection or security. What I felt was that, 'You are going to be a participant and look like you advocate this particular cause. And I don't,'" he said. "We should be there to protect everybody's rights. But I felt the participation was a little much."

Moutsos believes his request to switch assignments was blown out of proportion and could have been resolved quickly and quietly internally.

Burbank, however, said Moutsos resigned before internal affairs investigators had a chance to sit down and talk about it.

However, the chief said, once there's a hint of bias in his department, he will address it immediately.

"I will not tolerate bias, bigotry or hatred in the organization," he told the Deseret News Tuesday. "In order to be a police officer, you are to do the duties as assigned. And those duties cover a broad range of activities.

"With police officers — and this is the problem across the nation right now — you have to be able to do your job and set your personal feelings aside in order to equally distribute law enforcement and good will from the police department no matter where you are in this country, to every individual regardless of their religion, their race, their creeds, what gender they are or what sexual orientation they might be," he said.

Once someone outwardly expresses bias towards an individual or group, Burbank said, "how are you ever going to limit the liability and the exposure that you give to the public for someone who may be in plain bias? How can they ever say, 'No, I never let it come into play when it came into play in other aspects of their job?'"

Moutsos has a message to the LGBT community: "I say to them that I love you. I probably agree with 95 percent of your life or more. And I wish we could find the things that we do agree with and build from there. But there are just certain messages that I will never advocate."

One of the statements that Moutsos said hurt him the most was when he was told to leave his personal beliefs at home.

"I don't think there's a possible way that I could be a police officer and check that at home. Because I desperately need my faith — especially in this line of work," he said. "And I believe that's not what America was intended to do. Everybody says that the separation of church and state means you can't talk about God anywhere. But all that really means is the government can't force you to believe a certain belief. And I truly believe I should be able to think and talk and be who I am wherever I'm at."

Burbank acknowledged that officers frequently ask to switch shifts with each other. "But you have to ask yourself, 'What are you really thinking if you're going to put forth that view to other people in the police department and to the administration of the police department? Are you really fit to be a police officer? That calls into question someone's judgment if you ask me," he said.

"To actually say or indicate that that's the reason, then that's also a question of judgment that I have. They're not setting their personal feelings aside. Everyone comes to this job with bias and prejudice. But in order to do the job appropriately, you need to be able to set that aside or otherwise you're not going to do that job for me.

"I'm not asking him to do this on his own time. This is on the police department time, representing the police department," Burbank continued, giving emphasis to the last three words. "What the officers choose to do on their own time is one thing. But what they choose to do at work, I'm going to give direction, and you set your personal feelings aside. It's the only way we can function best."

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865622777/Officer-in-parade-controversy-speaks-out-on-religious-liberty.html

Asking (not demanding) to be assigned a different role such as security and crowd control rather than perform in an entertainment role in the Gay Pride Parade = "bigot." Got it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites





  • Replies 51
  • Created
  • Last Reply

So, he was told not to just be a cop and protect the parade, but to actually march IN the parade ?

Not his job. How is this even an issue ?

Do not submit. Ever.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, he was told not to just be a cop and protect the parade, but to actually march IN the parade ?

Not his job. How is this even an issue ?

Do not submit. Ever.

Right. He was asked to perform motorcycle tricks in the parade. He felt that was an entertainment role and participating in that way gave the impression that he supported certain messages that went against who he was. So he asked to be moved to a more traditional police role: security, directing traffic and crowd control type stuff. He didn't want to suppress their right to march. He didn't ask to not have any role whatsoever in the march. He simply asked to do something more in line with normal police duties for such an event. The damn bigot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's what we've been telling everyone for years. The gay rights people are not asking simply to tolerated. They are demanding to be accepted and if you disagree then you have to be silenced. They will force you to accept them. It won't stop with making for profit businesses be participants. They will, eventually, demand that clergy be forced to perform the ceremonies and that churches be forced to allow them to get married in their churches. Now, as of this moment, that won't fly with most of the country and judiciary but how long will that last? A lot will say they don't support that and, for now I'll take them at their word, but I wouldn't be surprised to see at some point in the future them changing their minds. They might not openly advocate for it but neither would they stand up and actively oppose it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cultural brownshirts throw their weight around again.

Officer in parade controversy speaks out on religious liberty

By Pat Reavy, Deseret News

Published: Tuesday, Feb. 24 2015 10:19 p.m. MST

Updated: Tuesday, Feb. 24 2015 10:19 p.m. MST

A former Salt Lake police officer is speaking out about the scrutiny he received after asking to switch assignments for the city's gay pride parade over the summer. Disagreeing with someone, he said, doesn't mean that you hate them.

SALT LAKE CITY — Eric Moutsos doesn't believe he should have to leave his personal convictions at home when he walks out the door to go to work — particularly his religious beliefs.

But his former boss, Salt Lake Police Chief Chris Burbank, says when an officer shows up to work for his department, that officer is expected to do their job. And if there is any hint that any personal biases may get in the way of doing their assigned duties, then that's a problem.

Moutsos was placed on leave in June after allegedly trying to switch assignments to avoid participating in the city's gay pride parade. He resigned from the force after his suspension became public.

On Monday, Moutsos issued a six-page statement about that experience, the first time the former Salt Lake police officer has told his side of the story.

In light of current debate on Utah's Capitol Hill concerning legislation to balance anti-discrimination with religious freedoms, Moutsos said he felt now was an important time to speak out.

At first, he wanted to remain anonymous. But after the Deseret News independently verified his identity, Moutsos agreed to an interview with his name being used.

By stepping forward, Moutsos hopes all sides can agree to come together, even if they don't see eye-to-eye on every issue.

"These issues need to be addressed. There are so many good people, no matter what it is you believe," he said. "I think what's happened here is that we're just getting more divisive on this issue. (Some might say) just because you may disagree with somebody means that you hate them. And that's just not true. Because I love people. I'll take a bullet for you. I'll protect you. But I will not advocate certain things in people's lives."

In June of 2014, the Salt Lake City Motor Squad Unit was asked to participate in the Utah Pride Parade in Salt Lake City, which included performing choreographed maneuvers on motorcycles.

Moutsos, a member of the unit, was told to participate. But because of his personal beliefs, he said he felt uncomfortable doing so.

Moutsos said he had no problem performing his duty to protect and serve. The officer had previously provided security as same-sex couples flocked to the Salt Lake City-County Building to be married following a federal court ruling legalizing same-sex marriage.

But in this case, Moutsos felt that what he was being asked to do was more for entertainment.

"I felt that by being an actual participant in the parade, I would be perceived to be supporting certain messages that were contrary to who I am," he said. "I will protect their parade. But I just don't want to be in the parade."

Moutsos said he sent an internal email asking to swap assignments with another officer. He said he was not opposed to providing traffic control for the parade and blocking streets for pedestrians.

But his request was denied.

"That's when I knew there was going to be a problem," he said.

Moutsos told his supervisor he was still willing to be part of the parade and sent an email saying he'd be ready for practice and to participate in the parade itself.

"Two days later I was brought into one of the commander's offices. They took my badge and my gun for discrimination. My sergeant then drove me home and took all of my equipment, said I could not perform as a police officer. I thought I was in a dream. I was devastated," he said.

Two days after being placed on administrative leave, Moutsos' story became worldwide news. Moutsos said he was immediately branded a "bigot" and knew he would no longer be able to work in Salt Lake City. He resigned from the department a short time later.

"I didn't know what I was going to do. I didn't think anyone would touch me," he said.

Since then, Moutsos has been hired by another Utah law enforcement agency. But he said the past six to seven months have been a "battle."

"I wanted to just hide," he said. "I think about it every single day. I haven't been able to sleep a full night's sleep."

Now Moutsos wants the public to know that reports saying he refused to work the parade were inaccurate.

"I have protected free speech events several times that I disagreed with. But I will protect them. I believe in the First Amendment — so much that even if I disagree with a particular message, I will still be there to protect it. Because without them being able to say what they want to say, I wouldn't be able to say what I want to say.

"It wasn't about protection or security. What I felt was that, 'You are going to be a participant and look like you advocate this particular cause. And I don't,'" he said. "We should be there to protect everybody's rights. But I felt the participation was a little much."

Moutsos believes his request to switch assignments was blown out of proportion and could have been resolved quickly and quietly internally.

Burbank, however, said Moutsos resigned before internal affairs investigators had a chance to sit down and talk about it.

However, the chief said, once there's a hint of bias in his department, he will address it immediately.

"I will not tolerate bias, bigotry or hatred in the organization," he told the Deseret News Tuesday. "In order to be a police officer, you are to do the duties as assigned. And those duties cover a broad range of activities.

"With police officers — and this is the problem across the nation right now — you have to be able to do your job and set your personal feelings aside in order to equally distribute law enforcement and good will from the police department no matter where you are in this country, to every individual regardless of their religion, their race, their creeds, what gender they are or what sexual orientation they might be," he said.

Once someone outwardly expresses bias towards an individual or group, Burbank said, "how are you ever going to limit the liability and the exposure that you give to the public for someone who may be in plain bias? How can they ever say, 'No, I never let it come into play when it came into play in other aspects of their job?'"

Moutsos has a message to the LGBT community: "I say to them that I love you. I probably agree with 95 percent of your life or more. And I wish we could find the things that we do agree with and build from there. But there are just certain messages that I will never advocate."

One of the statements that Moutsos said hurt him the most was when he was told to leave his personal beliefs at home.

"I don't think there's a possible way that I could be a police officer and check that at home. Because I desperately need my faith — especially in this line of work," he said. "And I believe that's not what America was intended to do. Everybody says that the separation of church and state means you can't talk about God anywhere. But all that really means is the government can't force you to believe a certain belief. And I truly believe I should be able to think and talk and be who I am wherever I'm at."

Burbank acknowledged that officers frequently ask to switch shifts with each other. "But you have to ask yourself, 'What are you really thinking if you're going to put forth that view to other people in the police department and to the administration of the police department? Are you really fit to be a police officer? That calls into question someone's judgment if you ask me," he said.

"To actually say or indicate that that's the reason, then that's also a question of judgment that I have. They're not setting their personal feelings aside. Everyone comes to this job with bias and prejudice. But in order to do the job appropriately, you need to be able to set that aside or otherwise you're not going to do that job for me.

"I'm not asking him to do this on his own time. This is on the police department time, representing the police department," Burbank continued, giving emphasis to the last three words. "What the officers choose to do on their own time is one thing. But what they choose to do at work, I'm going to give direction, and you set your personal feelings aside. It's the only way we can function best."

http://www.deseretne...us-liberty.html

Asking (not demanding) to be assigned a different role such as security and crowd control rather than perform in an entertainment role in the Gay Pride Parade = "bigot." Got it.

I stand with the officer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder how far this participation litmus test for bigotry goes? If he wasn't willing to dress up like one of the Village People and lip sync "YMCA" on the police dept. float, is that bigotry?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let me throw something out. If I was asked to march in a Gay parade in uniform, would I do it? Yes and doing so doesn't mean I agree with their lifestyle. It's a chance to recruit, community involvement and the other intangibles that come with interacting with a group of people.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let me throw something out. If I was asked to march in a Gay parade in uniform, would I do it? Yes and doing so doesn't mean I agree with their lifestyle. It's a chance to recruit, community involvement and the other intangibles that come with interacting with a group of people.

And if you were ordered, well, you'd have no choice in the matter.

This isn't about being ASKED to do anything. That's the whole damn point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let me throw something out. If I was asked to march in a Gay parade in uniform, would I do it? Yes and doing so doesn't mean I agree with their lifestyle. It's a chance to recruit, community involvement and the other intangibles that come with interacting with a group of people.

And that's fine for you. But what this officer requested was not unreasonable. Again, he wasn't asking to not be on duty or have no role. He just felt THAT role could give the wrong impression of his beliefs and who he was. It certainly did not warrant his chief's, nor a segment of the public's, reaction to it.

And as Raptor pointed out...this wasn't being "asked" to do something. It was being told.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder how far this participation litmus test for bigotry goes? If he wasn't willing to dress up like one of the Village People and lip sync "YMCA" on the police dept. float, is that bigotry?

Well, as he is already a cop, he's dressed like one of the Village People anyways....

:roflol:

( sorry )

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder how far this participation litmus test for bigotry goes? If he wasn't willing to dress up like one of the Village People and lip sync "YMCA" on the police dept. float, is that bigotry?

Well, as he is already a cop, he's dressed like one of the Village People anyways....

:roflol:

( sorry )

LOL... Nice observation :lmao:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok now let me say this. If I was ordered, I would still go because community involvement and promoting the Navy brand is part of my job. This Officer was part of unit that participates in events. He knew that when he joined:

SALT LAKE CITY — The Salt Lake City Police Department held its annual motor school Wednesday for officers interested in assignment to the Motor Squad.

The motorcycle squad is one of the most coveted assignments in the Salt Lake City Police Department. Aside from the fact that very few officers ever leave the squad, being accepted to the unit means officers must complete a tough driving test.

Several officers showed up for the training at Utah State Fairpark, 155 N. 1000 West. The purpose for the training is to make certain each candidate is able to operate a motorcycle under the various conditions required in police work.

Officers must traverse timed obstacle courses without hitting cones, as well as pass a braking exam. The overall proficiency in each of the exams must be 90 percent to pass.

The group is asked to participate in more than 300 special events per year on top of the hundreds of traffic incidents officers respond to during their regular course of duty. http://www.ksl.com/?sid=21925462

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does this officer approve of bearing false witness? Lying? Does he participate in events where liars are in attendance?

Bad analogy. He's not objecting to participating in an event with gay people. Just as I don't believe he's ever expressed an unwillingness to participate in an event where liars are present.

However, he probably would object to participating in this way in a parade that celebrated lying.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a feeling there is more to this story we are not getting.

Well, it's not like he's getting out ahead of this. This happened 8 months ago. He was just going to remain anonymous. But once the news outlet independently verified his identity, he decided to tell his side of things on the record.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I understand his position,and respect it but like another poster I think there is more to it. Plus when you are told to do your job you usually have to do it. Or call in sick.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok now let me say this. If I was ordered, I would still go because community involvement and promoting the Navy brand is part of my job. This Officer was part of unit that participates in events. He knew that when he joined:

SALT LAKE CITY — The Salt Lake City Police Department held its annual motor school Wednesday for officers interested in assignment to the Motor Squad.

The motorcycle squad is one of the most coveted assignments in the Salt Lake City Police Department. Aside from the fact that very few officers ever leave the squad, being accepted to the unit means officers must complete a tough driving test.

Several officers showed up for the training at Utah State Fairpark, 155 N. 1000 West. The purpose for the training is to make certain each candidate is able to operate a motorcycle under the various conditions required in police work.

Officers must traverse timed obstacle courses without hitting cones, as well as pass a braking exam. The overall proficiency in each of the exams must be 90 percent to pass.

The group is asked to participate in more than 300 special events per year on top of the hundreds of traffic incidents officers respond to during their regular course of duty. http://www.ksl.com/?sid=21925462

Understood. But again, the standard isn't you for what degree of participation crosses a line where it begins to feel like tacit endorsement of the event in question. There was nothing bigoted or unreasonable about asking to be given a more typical police role in this parade rather than a performance one. But it does go to show how the forces of tolerance and open-mindedness will treat anything they deem to be insufficient enthusiasm for the new cultural mandate on sexuality.

Don't get it do you.

I completely get it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a feeling there is more to this story we are not getting.

Or maybe you just WANT there to be more.

What if the story is as written. What then ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Understood. But again, the standard isn't you for what degree of participation crosses a line where it begins to feel like tacit endorsement of the event in question. There was nothing bigoted or unreasonable about asking to be given a more typical police role in this parade rather than a performance one. But it does go to show how the forces of tolerance and open-mindedness will treat anything they deem to be insufficient enthusiasm for the new cultural mandate on sexuality.

I hear you but if he wanted those typical police roles, he shouldn't have joined a special unit that conducts over 300 special events a year. It's clear that unit is used for more than just typical beat work. Community involvement events looks to be a large part of the requirement for being in this unit.1378375.jpg162689.jpg
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I understand his position,and respect it but like another poster I think there is more to it. Plus when you are told to do your job you usually have to do it. Or call in sick.

Or do as he did.

I would have no problem performing security for a gay parade because that would be my job and I don't hate gays. Not going to march.

I would protect people who participate in race based parades but I will not stand beside them and march.

I would protect an abortion rights parade but I could not perform and smile about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Understood. But again, the standard isn't you for what degree of participation crosses a line where it begins to feel like tacit endorsement of the event in question. There was nothing bigoted or unreasonable about asking to be given a more typical police role in this parade rather than a performance one. But it does go to show how the forces of tolerance and open-mindedness will treat anything they deem to be insufficient enthusiasm for the new cultural mandate on sexuality.

I hear you but if he wanted those typical police roles, he shouldn't have joined a special unit that conducts over 300 special events a year. It's clear that unit is used for more than just typical beat work. Community involvement events looks to be a large part of the requirement for being in this unit.1378375.jpg162689.jpg

It likely never came up before. Just as I imagine that people in various lines of work such as being a photographer never imagined when they opened their studio 15 years ago and booked some wedding gigs that they'd be confronted with doing photo shoots for gay weddings. It just never occurred to them.

Again, this didn't have to be a big deal. His request was not unreasonable or something that created some great burden on the police department. It only became a big deal because his chief decided that the bigotry detector stick shoved up his butt had sounded off and he needed to bring the offending party to heel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.




×
×
  • Create New...