".....Unlevel Playing Field...."

[AU64 10,122]

Surprised someone did not post this earlier.

The subject of many discussions on this site over the years.

http://www.toledonewsnow.com/story/29119248/unlevel-playing-field-why-auburn-bama-baseball-programs-are-at-a-disadvantage

Good piece whether you agree.... or not.

[Mikey 16,565]

Vanderbilt and the Mississippi schools have been competitive. Last year, or maybe year before, I did a check on schools in the CWS and less than half of them had extra help for in-state students.

Is it a disadvantage? Somewhat, but it's not as big a deal as the excuse makers want to make it. There are other factors. Those kids in other states have to have the academics to earn an academic scholarship, which is all that the "hope" type scholarships are. Auburn has plenty of academic money. We should be recruiting players that qualify for academic scholarships. That's how Vandy does it. Ron Polk left MSU for UGA thinking that situation would be a big advantage. He found out in a hurry it wasn't.

If a kid qualifies for an academic scholarship at AU he can play baseball and not even count against the 11.7 limit. (Yes, that's different from football and basketball) Baseball is a thinking man's game anyway so let's go recruit some A/B students who can also play baseball.

Yes, the Ga/Fla kids that qualify can get a Hope scholarship. It's not that big of a deal, we can do about the same. Why isn't Georgia at the top of things? Tennessee?

This article is making excuses for poor play but there is no real reason other than coaching. Put that Florida coach at AU, UAT or MSU and he'd have his team at or near the top in three years or less.

[autigeremt 6,589]

I think for this state is at a disadvantage. AU could get some kids from GA if we had more full rides to offer to out of state kids. It's a regional issue for Auburn. I guess uat has some similar issues but I can't say for sure (don't really care what they are doing).

[AU64 10,122]

Put that Florida coach at AU, UAT or MSU and he'd have his team at or near the top in three years or less.

Not make light of what Sullivan has done but he probably has the easiest recruiting job in the SEC...checking his roster and he has 25 players from the state of Florida. He should be doing better than he is....though if you look carefully at the LSU, TexAM and Vandy rosters. they look like a AA minor league team.

As for Sullivan though, it sure is nice to be in the middle of a HS baseball hotbed and coaching in the best conference and have over a billion dollars worth of Bright Futures scholarship money to draw from too....and the academic/testing requirements are not overly tough. Can save his NCAA schollys for out of state kids who need the help.....like Tobias and Shore.

[Mikey 16,565]

The "unlevel playing field"claim is bogus, nothing but an excuse for mediocrity. Texas and Louisiana don't have lottery scholarships and Vandy, as a private school, cannot benefit from them. LSU, Vandy and A&M are doing very well. Tennessee, Georgia and Kentucky have lottery scholarships and are generally as bad as AU and UAT.

The proof that this excuse is lame follows: Softball is in the same situation as baseball. Bammer has been a national contender for years now and since AU got a top of the line coach, we are too. Then there's non-lottery LSU. These softball teams should all be mediocre if this excuse were valid.

The AOL writer is simply trying to drum up sympathy and excuses for programs that have no excuse.

[AU64 10,122]

Sorry Mikey but you are apparently living in a dream world.....

http://www.vanderbil...1a4bcf6878.html

http://www.beaumonte...ing-4456643.php

Guess it's easier to just say it's an excuse than to do a little research on the subject.

[Mikey 16,565]

Sorry Mikey but you are apparently living in a dream world.....

http://www.vanderbil...1a4bcf6878.html

http://www.beaumonte...ing-4456643.php

Guess it's easier to just say it's an excuse than to do a little research on the subject.

Your first link shows that Vandy does not get lottery help, everything they do is something Auburn is also already doing.

The second link was thoroughly debunked last year. I think it was PowerOfDixieland's links that proved that article was bogus. That one claims that the amount of a school's endowment has some bearing on baseball scholarships. It does not. Were that the case, Harvard, Yale, Notre Dame and Stanford would be constant participants in the CWS.

Top of the SEC: Vandy, LSU, Texas A&M, Florida. Three of the four have no lottery money.

Bottom feeders: Georgia, Kentucky, Tennessee. Lottery money.

Softball tops: AU, UAT, LSU, UF. Again three of the four get no lottery money.

I suppose the "unlevel playing field" sounds good in the telling but judging from recent SEC results a team is better off without the lottery. The alleged advantage for lottery schools is bogus.

[PowerOfDixieland 3,226]

If you had a program like LSU, it wouldn't matter. And it doesn't matter in Baton Rouge.

That money should make a difference, but the kid who qualifies for HOPE money in Georgia will, in all likelihood, qualify for academic money in another state. I am living that reality right now with a rising senior who plays baseball. It might be a legitimate argument for a coach who is fighting for his job, but I would rather see that coach expending the same energy and doing a better job finding hidden talent.

Think about this...almost every kid who plays baseball would give anything to play at an SEC school. The league is becoming in baseball what it is in football. That said, there is ONE player all time that played in the SEC who has his bust in the MLB Hall of Fame. The point is, there is an awful lot of talent (really good talent) playing a lot of other places. We need to get some of those guys, get to where LSU and Vandy are, and then we can take our pick from all over the country. That takes a really good coach. We had one of those, but Jay Jacobs did a poor job with his plan of succession. I believe he may have rectified that.

[aubaseball 2,590]

In baseball you not only are recruiting against other teams, but you are also going up against the best (professional baseball). Auburn recruited and had commitments from several current MLB players. The current SS for the cubs would have been a Jr. this year I believe. Also AU had both Rasmus brothers signed to play before they accepted pro deals. I know that other schools face the same situation, but if a school is able to give a kid a full ride it is much easier to turn down the pro offer if the price is not right and go to school.

AU won 35 games this year, that is only not that far from 40 (which is considered a really good season).

[Mikey 16,565]

In baseball you not only are recruiting against other teams, but you are also going up against the best (professional baseball). Auburn recruited and had commitments from several current MLB players. The current SS for the cubs would have been a Jr. this year I believe. Also AU had both Rasmus brothers signed to play before they accepted pro deals. I know that other schools face the same situation, but if a school is able to give a kid a full ride it is much easier to turn down the pro offer if the price is not right and go to school.

AU won 35 games this year, that is only not that far from 40 (which is considered a really good season).

All D-1 schools are allowed 11.7 baseball scholarships. Any baseball players beyond 11.7 that are getting scholarship help are getting it because they qualify for academic help, just as the physics major down the hall qualifies for academic help. If a baseball player does NOT qualify academically at the same level as the physics major, giving him such a scholarship is an NCAA violation. There was at least one California school on probation last year for trying that trick. (UC Santa Barbara maybe?, I don't recall at the moment.)

[PowerOfDixieland 3,226]

In baseball you not only are recruiting against other teams, but you are also going up against the best (professional baseball). Auburn recruited and had commitments from several current MLB players. The current SS for the cubs would have been a Jr. this year I believe. Also AU had both Rasmus brothers signed to play before they accepted pro deals. I know that other schools face the same situation, but if a school is able to give a kid a full ride it is much easier to turn down the pro offer if the price is not right and go to school.

AU won 35 games this year, that is only not that far from 40 (which is considered a really good season).

All D-1 schools are allowed 11.7 baseball scholarships. Any baseball players beyond 11.7 that are getting scholarship help are getting it because they qualify for academic help, just as the physics major down the hall qualifies for academic help. If a baseball player does NOT qualify academically at the same level as the physics major, giving him such a scholarship is an NCAA violation. There was at least one California school on probation last year for trying that trick. (UC Santa Barbara maybe?, I don't recall at the moment.)

It was Pepperdine, which is more private than Vandy...

3. Excessive Financial Aid in violation of NCAA Bylaws 15.5.3.1 and 15.5.3.2

Beginning in the 2007-08 academic year and continuing through the 2010-11 academic year, the institution exceeded its maximum team grant-in-aid limitations in the sports of baseball, men’s tennis, men’s volleyball, men’s water polo and women’s soccer.

These violations occurred due to deficiencies in the process used by the institution to award need-based financial aid. Because it has limited financial resources, the institution cannot fund all students with demonstrated financial needs. It therefore prioritizes, based on a set of criteria, which students will receive the aid. If students meet any of the listed criteria, they are categorized as a “1,” meaning they are guaranteed at least some need-based aid.

One way a student can be classified as a “1” is to possess a particular gift or talent that the institution desires to have represented in the overall student body. Such students earned classifications as “1T,” moving them to the top of the list to receive need-based aid. Each year from 2007-08 through 2010-11, the financial aid office designated 10-15 student-athletes as “1T” based on their athletics participation. Those student-athletes then received need-based aid in addition to any athletics aid awarded by their coaches. The need-based aid was not counted as athletics aid, as it should have been.

[AU64 10,122]

Keep in mind qualifications for financial aid varies quite a bit from one school to the next. My grand son who is a top 10% student but no genius has qualified to receive 80% of his tuition at Liberty University based on his GPA and ACT so that it will cost him less to attend that school than any in-state school in North Carolina.

Note that the average financial aid package for entering freshmen at Vandy in 2010 was over $40,000....both need based and non-need based.

http://admissions.vanderbilt.edu/vandybloggers/2011/07/vanderbilt-among-tops-in-financial-aid-policies/

And there is the list of the best 50 schools which includes this comment: One noticeable aspect of this list is a lack of geographic diversity. Only 17 states are represented on our list, and 25 of the 50 colleges and universities listed below are located in one of three states: California, Texas, and New York. The City University of New York and California State University systems are particularly well-represented, with eight entries each. Additionally, the states of North Carolina, Louisiana, and Florida comprise another 12 entries. Students who attend college in these states have access to higher levels of state-sponsored grant programs, which can greatly reduce the overall cost of tuition.

http://www.bestcolleges.com/features/best-financial-aid/

Vandy's coach indicated that 20 plus of his players have full scholarships...would be interesting to know how many AU baseball players say that.

[PowerOfDixieland 3,226]

Vandy's coach indicated that 20 plus of his players have full scholarships...would be interesting to know how many AU baseball players say that.

None of which are 100% baseball. As they say, "if anybody tells you they got a full ride in baseball, they're lying".

You are absolutely correct with regard to financial aid varying...my daughter qualified for the equivalent of in state tuition by way of her GPA and ACT at Ole Miss which is essentially begging for out of state applicants. Their in state cost of attendance is ridiculously affordable. On the other hand, we were visiting UNC with my son over spring break, and conversely they have more out of state applicants than they want. The North Carolina legislature mandates that a maximum of 18% of all incoming freshman be out of state. They have more applicants for that 18% than they do for the 72% in state slots. "Scholarship" money is very tight and tuition is ridiculously high.

[AU64 10,122]

Vandy's coach indicated that 20 plus of his players have full scholarships...would be interesting to know how many AU baseball players say that.

None of which are 100% baseball. As they say, "if anybody tells you they got a full ride in baseball, they're lying".

You are absolutely correct with regard to financial aid varying...my daughter qualified for the equivalent of in state tuition by way of her GPA and ACT at Ole Miss which is essentially begging for out of state applicants. Their in state cost of attendance is ridiculously affordable. On the other hand, we were visiting UNC with my son over spring break, and conversely they have more out of state applicants than they want. The North Carolina legislature mandates that a maximum of 18% of all incoming freshman be out of state. They have more applicants for that 18% than they do for the 72% in state slots. "Scholarship" money is very tight and tuition is ridiculously high.

My grand kids are twins...both college shopping with almost identical GPA and SAT....the girl is getting no indications of financial aid from NC State which is her favorite...whereas the boy, as mentioned will be able to go to a private school out of state for far less money.

Also a friend's son living on the South Carolina coast has a full ride offer to Bama for swimming...combo of athletic and academic....but able to go for next to nothing where as in state universities are offering very little. His father is a Miss State grad...killing him that his son will probably go to bama. Just sayin' that schools have some flexibility on combining academic and athletic aid if they want an athlete. Hope Mikey is right an AU is doing some of that too.