Why Republicans can't blame Obama for Iraq or ISIS

[AUUSN 823]

The National Review claims that President Obama is to blame for Iraq's demise and states: "What had been won on the ground could be just as easily lost if the U.S. did not leave behind peacekeepers in the manner that it had in all its past successful interventions: the Balkans, Germany, Italy, Japan, the Philippines, and South Korea." However, American soldiers in postwar German, Japan, the Philippines and other regions never had to contend with anything similar to Iraq's counterinsurgency conflict: ambushes, improvised explosive devices and insurgentsdestroying rival holy sites. Aside from the fact that countries like post-World War II Germany and post-invasion Iraq are polar opposite scenarios (West Germany had a government longing for American forces, while Iraq has been a deadly sectarian quagmire since 2003), this viewpoint also ignores the fact that Iraqi leaders had their own objectives, and these goals ran contrary to U.S. national security.

First, it was President George W. Bush, not Obama, who negotiated the Status of Forces Agreement that set the timetable for a 2011 withdrawal of U.S. soldiers. As for former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush's ® belief that Obama "refused" a plan to leave 10,000 Americans in Iraq, that is rated "mostly false" according to Politifact.com. While Obama has been accused of not taking negotiations for a new agreementseriously, the leader of Nouri al-Maliki's bloc in the Iraqi parliament believed that American demands were "a nonstarter for most of the parties and MPs [members of parliament]" and that a new status of forces agreement would be "very difficult, if not impossible," as quoted inThe Atlantic. Echoing this viewpoint, a TIMEmagazine article headlined "Iraq's Government, Not Obama, Called Time on the U.S. Troop Presence" notes that "ending the U.S. troop presence in Iraq was an overwhelmingly popular demand among Iraqis" and that "it was Iraqi democracy that put the kibosh on that goal."

Second, it was never in U.S. interests to remain in a country that refused the presence of U.S. troops. This fact is also ignored by Republicans like Jeb Bush who blame Obama for Iraq's demise. A 2011 Atlantic article headlined "U.S. Troops are Leaving Because Iraq Doesn't Want Them There" quotes former Iraqi Prime Minister Ayad Allawi as saying, "Keeping Americans in Iraq longer isn't the answer to the problems of Iraq." Allawi also stated that a prolonged U.S. presence was "definitely not the solution to the problems of my country."

In terms of a post-American Iraq that Republicans believe could have been saved by thousands of American soldiers, Foreign Affairs paints a picture of a corrupt political system where peace and tranquility could never have resulted simply from the presence of 10,000 U.S. soldiers:

Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki presides over a system rife with corruption and brutality, in which political leaders use security forces and militias to repress enemies and intimidate the general population. The law exists as a weapon to be wielded against rivals and to hide the misdeeds of allies. ...

The Iraqi state cannot provide basic services, including regular electricity in summer, clean water, and decent health care; meanwhile, unemployment among young men hovers close to 30 percent, making them easy recruits for criminal gangs and militant factions.

Would 10,000 U.S. soldiers have prevented the "corruption and brutality" of the Maliki regime in Iraq, provide "basic services to Iraqis" or fix the 30 percent unemployment?

Of course not, and once Americans left, Iraq's Shiite-dominated government arrested its Sunni vice president. Shiite leaders immediately consolidated power at the expense of Sunni rivals. As a result of Sunnis reacting to being marginalized after decades of dominance (Saddam Hussein was Sunni), a PBS Frontline article headlined "How Saddam's Former Soldiers are Fueling the Rise of ISIS" explains that "As the Islamic State [in Iraq and Syria] continues its march through Syria and Iraq, the jihadist group is quietly utilizing a network of former members of Saddam Hussein's Baath Party to help militarize a fighting force that has effectively erased the border between both nations and left roughly 6 million people under its rule."

Since al-Maliki was "pulling Iraq apart," as described by The Telegraph, Sunni tribal leaders were eventually forced to do what Newsweek referred to as "bet on the strong horse, and that's ISIS." As for Obama's culpability in the rise of the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS), and Iraq's demise, Thomas Ricks blames Iraq's Shiite leaders. In a recent Foreign Policy article by Ricks headlined "Who Lost Iraq? I Don't Think It Was Obama, I Think It Was Iraq's Shiite Leaders," Ricks states that keeping U.S. forces longer in Iraq "might have made the U.S. government a hostage to the Baghdad government." In terms of American forces possibly stemming the tide of sectarian violence, Ricks states "I don't see evidence that additional American pressure might have made the Shiite leaders act any more generously.”

Finally, there was never a time, from 2003 until the present day, where Iraq was "won," and there has never been a year in Iraq since 2003 where the words "Mission Accomplished" could be uttered without hearing the sounds of suicide bombs or ambulance sirens. A recent studyestimates that nearly 500,000 Iraqis have died during the war, while M.I.T. states that around 3.5 to 5 million have been displaced because of the conflict. Iraq Body Count estimates a total of1,003 suicide bombings in Iraq from 2003 to 2010. The U.S. military can't stop people from deciding to blow themselves up, regardless of what is said by Republicans who blame Obama for Iraq's demise.

Even with 10,000 American soldiers, which the Iraqis refused to allow in 2011, there would still have been rampant political corruption, suicide bombings, Iranian backed-Shiite militias andSaudi-backed Sunni tribes, and also the emergence of ISIS (a rebranding of al Qaeda, since ISISused to be al Qaeda in Iraq) in Syria. Obama isn't perfect, but the demise of Iraq began the moment Bush decided upon regime change, not in 2011 with Obama's decision to bring our soldiers home. The fact that Iraq's Shiite-dominated security forces showed "no will to fight" — in the words of Secretary Ash Carter — a Sunni terror group named ISIS in Ramadi highlights the reality that Iraq's ethnic divisions always doomed a functioning state.

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/defense/243281-why-republicans-cant-blame-obama-for-iraq-or-isis?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[AURaptor 1,122]

The Status of Forces stuff could have been ironed out, if Obama was 1/2 a leader.

He isn't. He cut and run, and ISIS is the result.

It's mostly on him.

[AUUSN 823]

The Status of Forces stuff could have been ironed out, if Obama was 1/2 a leader.

He isn't. He cut and run, and ISIS is the result.

It's mostly on him.

There is no requirement for you to comment in every thread. Especially in those that you have no idea what you are talking about.

[AURaptor 1,122]

Know well enough about this topic to comment, so I will.

Sod off

[AUUSN 823]

Know well enough about this topic to comment, so I will.

Sod off

No you don't. You really don't. But hey, whatever gets you your dopamine hit.

[Weegle777 78]

I wonder if 20 years down the road GWB will keep getting blamed for everything. Who gives a crap about blame? Instead of blaming everybody else, just work to stop what is happening now and stop living in the last decade.

[AUUSN 823]

I wonder if 20 years down the road GWB will keep getting blamed for everything. Who gives a crap about blame? Instead of blaming everybody else, just work to stop what is happening now and stop living in the last decade.

I dont blame GWB. I blame Maliki and his Shiite lackeys.

[AURaptor 1,122]

" I blame Maliki and his Shiite lackeys.

"

Well we agree there.

[japantiger 4,051]

As the leader, Obama owns it...or should own it...but this ass clown owns nothing. It's immaterial that this is hard; it's immaterial he has to work with Shiite lackeys..his job is to represent US interest and do the hard things...not just hanging with JZ, not playing golf after citizens get beheaded, not getting selfies with Dutch princesses's...he and those apologists on here for him; need to quit pissing and moaning for him every time something gets a little hard. It doesn't matter whether he created the mess (which he's certainly created his share) or got dealt a bad hand of cards; you must play the hand you are dealt. If you don' t want to play the game, stay home...you want to be the President; buck up and handle the hard, messy, ugly ******* messes that are the world.

[TexasTiger 12,828]

The Status of Forces stuff could have been ironed out, if Obama was 1/2 a leader.

He isn't. He cut and run, and ISIS is the result.

It's mostly on him.

It's Obama's fault for not fixing Bush's blunders.

[TexasTiger 12,828]

The Status of Forces stuff could have been ironed out, if Obama was 1/2 a leader.

He isn't. He cut and run, and ISIS is the result.

It's mostly on him.

There is no requirement for you to comment in every thread. Especially in those that you have no idea what you are talking about.

That would severely curtail his posts.

[AUUSN 823]

As the leader, Obama owns it...or should own it...but this ass clown owns nothing. It's immaterial that this is hard; it's immaterial he has to work with Shiite lackeys..his job is to represent US interest and do the hard things...not just hanging with JZ, not playing golf after citizens get beheaded, not getting selfies with Dutch princesses's...he and those apologists on here for him; need to quit pissing and moaning for him every time something gets a little hard. It doesn't matter whether he created the mess (which he's certainly created his share) or got dealt a bad hand of cards; you must play the hand you are dealt. If you don' t want to play the game, stay home...you want to be the President; buck up and handle the hard, messy, ugly ******* messes that are the world.

Please seek help.

[autigeremt 6,590]

Shared responsibility. If you can't do that don't run for president!!!! Anyone who tries to make one or the other more (or less) responsible for managing war and/or conflict as president is an apologist for either of these two men.

Suck it up and drive on!

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Well stated autigeremt. It's quite obvious even in this forum Obama's minions are little more than blind mice following their beloved pied piper.

They can't even admit that Dems are also criticizing Obama's "strategy."

[homersapien 11,357]

As the leader, Obama owns it...or should own it...but this ass clown owns nothing. It's immaterial that this is hard; it's immaterial he has to work with Shiite lackeys..his job is to represent US interest and do the hard things...not just hanging with JZ, not playing golf after citizens get beheaded, not getting selfies with Dutch princesses's...he and those apologists on here for him; need to quit pissing and moaning for him every time something gets a little hard. It doesn't matter whether he created the mess (which he's certainly created his share) or got dealt a bad hand of cards; you must play the hand you are dealt. If you don' t want to play the game, stay home...you want to be the President; buck up and handle the hard, messy, ugly ******* messes that are the world.

Well, at least don't create the hard, ugly ********** messes in the world. :-\

[homersapien 11,357]

The piece presented in the OP obfuscates the issue with irrelevant details IMO.

This piece by Scott Ritter addresses the core of the thing:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/scott-ritter/the-blame-game_7_b_7338700.html

[quietfan 233]

The Status of Forces stuff could have been ironed out, if Obama was 1/2 a leader.

He isn't. He cut and run, and ISIS is the result.

I hear this claim constantly from the Right. However, I see no evidence from Iraqis that such is the case. Nor do I see any reason for Bush to have signed the original withdrawal agreement if it was presumably so flawed. International diplomacy doesn't work by saying "Oh, we'll sign it, but we don't mean it and will insist on changing it later." So did Bush "cut and run" or merely lie by signing?

Quoting the opening link:

As for former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush's ® belief that Obama "refused" a plan to leave 10,000 Americans in Iraq, that is rated "mostly false" according to Politifact.com. While Obama has been accused of not taking negotiations for a new agreementseriously, the leader of Nouri al-Maliki's bloc in the Iraqi parliament believed that American demands were "a nonstarter for most of the parties and MPs [members of parliament]" and that a new status of forces agreement would be "very difficult, if not impossible," as quoted inThe Atlantic. Echoing this viewpoint, a TIMEmagazine article headlined "Iraq's Government, Not Obama, Called Time on the U.S. Troop Presence" notes that "ending the U.S. troop presence in Iraq was an overwhelmingly popular demand among Iraqis" and that "it was Iraqi democracy that put the kibosh on that goal."

In my opinion, idle speculation that Obama should or could have gotten a different, "better" agreement is just that: idle speculation. And I think that theory is based more on Obama-hate and delusion than on the reality of Iraqi politics.

Back to Iraq itself, I see only two real options:

1) Continue to be a foreign occupying military power for an indeterminate time and continue to lose our own troops in a theater where our very presence incites more violence and more terrorism.

or

2) Tell the Iraqis "You have to solve your own problems. We'll give you assistance and material support if you demonstrate that you're on the right track, but we're not shedding any more of our blood for your internecine feuds!"

[cooltigger21 0]

Whatever the things that Obama inherited, he has not made anything better in any area. He never intended to stay in Iraq and was happy to fold up shop over the SOF business. Real leaders sit down and make it work out. They don't whine and moan and lay everything off on their predecessor and blame them This man won't accept responsibility for anything. He finds out everything through the news. He has no coherent strategy for dealing with ISIS or anyone else for that matter.

[AUUSN 823]

Real leaders sit down and make it work out. They don't whine and moan and lay everything off on their predecessor and blame them.

Like on Iran?

[japantiger 4,051]

As the leader, Obama owns it...or should own it...but this ass clown owns nothing. It's immaterial that this is hard; it's immaterial he has to work with Shiite lackeys..his job is to represent US interest and do the hard things...not just hanging with JZ, not playing golf after citizens get beheaded, not getting selfies with Dutch princesses's...he and those apologists on here for him; need to quit pissing and moaning for him every time something gets a little hard. It doesn't matter whether he created the mess (which he's certainly created his share) or got dealt a bad hand of cards; you must play the hand you are dealt. If you don' t want to play the game, stay home...you want to be the President; buck up and handle the hard, messy, ugly ******* messes that are the world.

Please seek help.

I guess this is what goes for Leadership in the Navy now, huh. Funny, I would have thought the command college would have taught a little more accountability, ownership, perseverance and sacrifice in their leadership courses...but I guess you squids prefer the effite-hands-off-blame-my-predecessor-dodge-ownership-politics-before-principle-incompetent style of leadership that our dear leader so eagerly exercises daily. I guess people like Evans and others in the Navy pantheon of real leaders are passe' now. Maybe they should take back his CMO and point out how foolish he was to provide old 20th century style leadership. You guys are a hoot; it doesn't matter how toolish Obama is; you just can't bring yourselves to admit he is a complete ass clown. I hope you have daughters and they all bring home someone like him one day. That will really test your conviction. Semper Fi from someone who values old style accountability and leadership...

[japantiger 4,051]

Uuhhmmm, you mean like Lybia? Or Egypt? Or Syria? Or Ukraine? Or Crimea? Seriously Homey...you're not even trying...

[AUUSN 823]

As the leader, Obama owns it...or should own it...but this ass clown owns nothing. It's immaterial that this is hard; it's immaterial he has to work with Shiite lackeys..his job is to represent US interest and do the hard things...not just hanging with JZ, not playing golf after citizens get beheaded, not getting selfies with Dutch princesses's...he and those apologists on here for him; need to quit pissing and moaning for him every time something gets a little hard. It doesn't matter whether he created the mess (which he's certainly created his share) or got dealt a bad hand of cards; you must play the hand you are dealt. If you don' t want to play the game, stay home...you want to be the President; buck up and handle the hard, messy, ugly ******* messes that are the world.

Please seek help.

I guess this is what goes for Leadership in the Navy now, huh. Funny, I would have thought the command college would have taught a little more accountability, ownership, perseverance and sacrifice in their leadership courses...but I guess you squids prefer the effite-hands-off-blame-my-predecessor-dodge-ownership-politics-before-principle-incompetent style of leadership that our dear leader so eagerly exercises daily. I guess people like Evans and others in the Navy pantheon of real leaders are passe' now. Maybe they should take back his CMO and point out how foolish he was to provide old 20th century style leadership. You guys are a hoot; it doesn't matter how toolish Obama is; you just can't bring yourselves to admit he is a complete ass clown. I hope you have daughters and they all bring home someone like him one day. That will really test your conviction. Semper Fi from someone who values old style accountability and leadership...

Out of respect for your service, I'm not going to get into this nonsense with you. I will say that I used to really enjoy your posts. They were thoughtful and well written. I have expressed in the past where I think Obama has failed but dont let that stop your insanely incoherent rants.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Good observation jt. Ignore the inflated egomaniacs here.

[homersapien 11,357]

As the leader, Obama owns it...or should own it...but this ass clown owns nothing. It's immaterial that this is hard; it's immaterial he has to work with Shiite lackeys..his job is to represent US interest and do the hard things...not just hanging with JZ, not playing golf after citizens get beheaded, not getting selfies with Dutch princesses's...he and those apologists on here for him; need to quit pissing and moaning for him every time something gets a little hard. It doesn't matter whether he created the mess (which he's certainly created his share) or got dealt a bad hand of cards; you must play the hand you are dealt. If you don' t want to play the game, stay home...you want to be the President; buck up and handle the hard, messy, ugly ******* messes that are the world.

Please seek help.

I guess this is what goes for Leadership in the Navy now, huh. Funny, I would have thought the command college would have taught a little more accountability, ownership, perseverance and sacrifice in their leadership courses...but I guess you squids prefer the effite-hands-off-blame-my-predecessor-dodge-ownership-politics-before-principle-incompetent style of leadership that our dear leader so eagerly exercises daily. I guess people like Evans and others in the Navy pantheon of real leaders are passe' now. Maybe they should take back his CMO and point out how foolish he was to provide old 20th century style leadership. You guys are a hoot; it doesn't matter how toolish Obama is; you just can't bring yourselves to admit he is a complete ass clown. I hope you have daughters and they all bring home someone like him one day. That will really test your conviction. Semper Fi from someone who values old style accountability and leadership...

Man, you really do need help.

[autigeremt 6,590]

To each their own......needing help for one is spot on for another.