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Justified or Not?


Weegle777

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Assuming it was not staged, not justified. I see no evidence of "thug" behavior as the video suggests, but I do see the apparent "thug" putting a weapon down when instructed to do so, and being shot in the process. I do see what is possibly a handgun in his right hand as he falls, in which case the officer at the rear firing makes sense. If that was the case, I would consider it justified. That said, it makes little sense to drop a drawn rifle in order to draw and present a handgun at an opponent that has already drawn and sighted. If the suspect did that, he was a dead body waiting to happen.

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I guess I'm dead then, if I'm the cop facing him, and there's no back up to see the gun from the opposite side.

Of course, the flip side could argue that he's also putting the handgun down too, as instructed...

<_<

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I guess I'm dead then, if I'm the cop facing him, and there's no back up to see the gun from the opposite side.

Of course, the flip side could argue that he's also putting the handgun down too, as instructed...

<_<

You are not dead. You are a trained officer with a weapon drawn and sighted on a suspect. He is already slowly putting down the drawn weapon that you saw, and the biggest threat: the rifle. He might have indeed been intending to put down the other weapon as well, but we don't get to know that one.. The advancing officer never lowered his weapon until the suspect was shot and on the ground, as he should not have. At any rate, he could have never drawn and aimed it faster than you could have seen it and reacted, considering you already had a weapon bearing on him. Humans cannot draw from concealment and fire at a distant target (out of arm's reach) faster than the aimed opponent can react. Considering that suspect was openly carrying an AR-15, he may have just as easily already had the handgun in his hand. His behavior does not match that of someone I would consider intending to do me imminent harm. Had he thrown the AR down and started drawing a concealed handgun, sure. The random guy intending to kill a cop would have used the AR that is already out.

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I guess I'm dead then, if I'm the cop facing him, and there's no back up to see the gun from the opposite side.

Of course, the flip side could argue that he's also putting the handgun down too, as instructed...

<_</>

You are not dead. You are a trained officer with a weapon drawn and sighted on a suspect. He is already slowly putting down the drawn weapon that you saw, and the biggest threat: the rifle. He might have indeed been intending to put down the other weapon as well, but we don't get to know that one.. The advancing officer never lowered his weapon until the suspect was shot and on the ground, as he should not have. At any rate, he could have never drawn and aimed it faster than you could have seen it and reacted, considering you already had a weapon bearing on him. Humans cannot draw from concealment and fire at a distant target (out of arm's reach) faster than the aimed opponent can react. Considering that suspect was openly carrying an AR-15, he may have just as easily already had the handgun in his hand. His behavior does not match that of someone I would consider intending to do me imminent harm. Had he thrown the AR down and started drawing a concealed handgun, sure. The random guy intending to kill a cop would have used the AR that is already out.

But in this situation, as a cop, you do not know the intent of this guy. You hesitate, you die. That is why I ask if anyone here is a cop. It's not to be an ass, it's to see if anyone has experience in these situations. It's easy to play the what if game from our couch, but when faced with this scenario, you aren't in a calm state.
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Didn't see the pt thread, frankly, just don't look at those...

AND weegs, this is also a 10 sec snippet, if not staged, they have been there, they have knowledge about the sitch we don't and even if it was 30 seconds more observational info than we have.

This probably makes the point it wants to, and I'm the least likely person to support a person who is supposed to protect us and is a criminal instead.

An officer in Pa. made a false claim of being shot at, he admitted this. Three in CA are charged with beating a suspect in their custody....both in the last few days......Those are REAL and just as criminal as what they are supposed to apprehend....

HOWEVER, if my knowledge was limited to what we see in 10 seconds, that is a dead man and compared to many here, I'm a social progressive.

Not a real world case we can understand with a purposefully selected 10 seconds.

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I guess I'm dead then, if I'm the cop facing him, and there's no back up to see the gun from the opposite side.

Of course, the flip side could argue that he's also putting the handgun down too, as instructed...

<_</>

You are not dead. You are a trained officer with a weapon drawn and sighted on a suspect. He is already slowly putting down the drawn weapon that you saw, and the biggest threat: the rifle. He might have indeed been intending to put down the other weapon as well, but we don't get to know that one.. The advancing officer never lowered his weapon until the suspect was shot and on the ground, as he should not have. At any rate, he could have never drawn and aimed it faster than you could have seen it and reacted, considering you already had a weapon bearing on him. Humans cannot draw from concealment and fire at a distant target (out of arm's reach) faster than the aimed opponent can react. Considering that suspect was openly carrying an AR-15, he may have just as easily already had the handgun in his hand. His behavior does not match that of someone I would consider intending to do me imminent harm. Had he thrown the AR down and started drawing a concealed handgun, sure. The random guy intending to kill a cop would have used the AR that is already out.

But in this situation, as a cop, you do not know the intent of this guy. You hesitate, you die. That is why I ask if anyone here is a cop. It's not to be an ass, it's to see if anyone has experience in these situations. It's easy to play the what if game from our couch, but when faced with this scenario, you aren't in a calm state.

Hesitation means the advancing officer sees his arm attempting to bring up a handgun from the rear if that is his intent. All that officer has to do is squeeze the trigger. He already refrained from shooting the suspect when he turned around with an AR-15 and then complied with the instruction to put the weapon down. The suspect had already put the only means he had of injuring the officer on the ground, slowly. He then had no advantage, and was incapable of getting one. We do not not know if the suspect already had the gun in his hand, or if he was pulling it out to put it on the ground as ordered. Slowly putting down the AR-15 certainly indicates a desire to not get involved in a police shootout.

Maybe he was an idiot, and thought he could pull the handgun and dispatch the officer despite putting the better weapon down slowly. If that is the case, he would have been wrong, regardless of the presence of the second officer. As soon as the advancing officer saw an arm swinging out quickly with a handgun, he would have fired, and understandably so. I would have too. Maybe he was an idiot in a different sense, in that he thought in that split second that he should put down the other gun too.

Personally, I would ultimately consider it a close enough call that it is justified. I probably would have shot him. Either way, I see no criminal intent on the part of the officers, and could easily understand their perspective of feeling threatened. That said, I think there is more to this story and how the cops came into contact with him. "Thugs" do not normally walk around with AR-15's openly, for the obvious reason that it attracts unwanted attention.

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Need more info before making a judgement. This is why these videos that pop up have to be taken with a grain of salt. They're generally edited to show the point the person putting it up wants to show whether it be pro or con.

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I doubt this is real.

So do I. I cannot find any news articles about it, just a few links ultimately to a YouTube video.

Also, on subsequent review that is not an AR-15. It looks far more like a G3 or HK91 clone. No sane individual intending to fire on a cop would put down the rifle they already had pointed at the cop and is easily capable of penetrating their ballistic vest in hope of successfully drawing a handgun on someone with a firearm pointed at them already. It makes no sense.

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I doubt this is real.

I was skeptical as well, as I did a quick news search, and nothing came up. It could have been a few years old, but it had a ' training ' feel to it.

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I doubt this is real.

I was skeptical as well, as I did a quick news search, and nothing came up. It could have been a few years old, but it had a ' training ' feel to it.

Yeah it did. Plus the camera zooming in on the "thug" and then zooming out right when the cop shot him to show the cop shot him. Plus, I'd expect the camera to be more shaky if this was a real time incident because of the adrenaline rush and what not.
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Need more info before making a judgement. This is why these videos that pop up have to be taken with a grain of salt. They're generally edited to show the point the person putting it up wants to show whether it be pro or con.

Agreed. What we really need to know is not the 10 seconds shown in the video, but the 10 or more minutes that transpired before the video.

But I don't see much logic in putting one's rifle, already in hand, down just to attempt to pull and use a pistol.

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