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I'm confused, but sw and jj are the same


cole256

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good grief........msu took the long ball away from us. it was an msu scheme and not so much sean.

Shhhhh... Those facts can't be discussed... I bet JJ would have got the ball through all those double covered receivers on the deep ball like he has all year....oh, wait...

The deep ball was not Whites fault. It was play calling and the Oline. White is alot more accurate than JJ, makes much better decisions and runs better. Not sure why this discussion is even happening other than the lack of scoring (which again is solely on the Oline and playcalling)

More accurate, this is not true or at least wasn't shown during the game

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Well, I am with Cole here. Dink passes completed. NO TD period and crucial int. I think folks are searching for silver lining. Yes safeties were back but shouldn't the 10 to 15 yd crossing be open?

Made a couple of nice runs but JJ went 60+ last week.

IMO we do not have the correct QB on campus for success. Need to hit the junior colleges or transfers.

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Yes, you will deservedly get flamed for this thread.

You can try....better have some logic behind it though, cuz I DEFINITELY have questions I don't think would be answered

Bad response on my part. You know football and seem to be objective about the players. And really, you and I just see different things. I saw White go through progressions on a play last night and you saw him stare a guy down. I could be wrong about that and anything else.

But last night I saw a quarterback who was better at every facet of the position than Jeremy has been this season, other than seeing over the OL. Even taking that bad sack late was better than throwing it to the wrong team. Sean was more decisive, accurate, mobile, calm and possessing of leadership. He obviously made mistakes but I considered them to be far fewer and less damaging than Jeremy's have been. Also, I have a reasonable expectation that he will improve. Jeremy proved that he was not going to if he kept playing.

Side note: I've been mighty critical of Jeremy's play, but he looked like a hell of a good teammate last night. I loved the play call to get him in the end zone and was hoping hard for it to succeed. Crazy that Mullen might've won the game with that timeout.

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good grief........msu took the long ball away from us. it was an msu scheme and not so much sean.

Shhhhh... Those facts can't be discussed... I bet JJ would have got the ball through all those double covered receivers on the deep ball like he has all year....oh, wait...

The deep ball was not Whites fault. It was play calling and the Oline. White is alot more accurate than JJ, makes much better decisions and runs better. Not sure why this discussion is even happening other than the lack of scoring (which again is solely on the Oline and playcalling)

More accurate, this is not true or at least wasn't shown during the game

Two deep safeties doesn't take away the intermediate passing game. It should, at least theoretically open it up. And, we had opportunities to throw deep last night. I saw several man looks that we didn't not take advantage of.

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Made a couple of nice runs but JJ went 60+ last week.

Congrats to Jeremy for running unimpeded in a straight line for that far.

He did recognize and take it. Which was progress.

Sure. Doesn't make him more effectively mobile than Sean (which seemed to be the point of what I was responding to).

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SW actually progressed through his reads and would dump it off short. I saw only one pass that he missed and it was a wide open Chandler Cox on a wheel route to his right that he never saw.

A redshirt freshman who never took a collegiate snap that went straight to it last night looked poised and confident in the pocket. Much better than JJ. Our biggest problem was getting the ball in the redzone.. Forcing the ball on that interception was a typical frosh mistake. Nothing he could do about Golson's bad snap. And the pass he made to Cox on the out route was catchable but still wouldn't have scored.

Overall, SW did good and will improve and develope. This was his first game. Looked much better than JJ's first game.

Anyone else catch in his post game interview he took the blame and called it a mishandled snap? I don't care if turns out a complete bust (which I highly doubt) the kid has class and leadership skills. Those two together are hard to find these days. I for one am very proud of SW.

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Made a couple of nice runs but JJ went 60+ last week.

Congrats to Jeremy for running unimpeded in a straight line for that far.

He did recognize and take it. Which was progress.

Sure. Doesn't make him more effectively mobile than Sean (which seemed to be the point of what I was responding to).

I agree. SW largely ran when he should.

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SW actually progressed through his reads and would dump it off short. I saw only one pass that he missed and it was a wide open Chandler Cox on a wheel route to his right that he never saw.

A redshirt freshman who never took a collegiate snap that went straight to it last night looked poised and confident in the pocket. Much better than JJ. Our biggest problem was getting the ball in the redzone.. Forcing the ball on that interception was a typical frosh mistake. Nothing he could do about Golson's bad snap. And the pass he made to Cox on the out route was catchable but still wouldn't have scored.

Overall, SW did good and will improve and develope. This was his first game. Looked much better than JJ's first game.

Anyone else catch in his post game interview he took the blame and called it a mishandled snap? I don't care if turns out a complete bust (which I highly doubt) the kid has class and leadership skills. Those two together are hard to find these days. I for one am very proud of SW.

It was a bad snap he should have handled. Glad he recognized that.

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I removed the interceptions. I'll explain why in a second.

Jeremy's numbers- completed 67% of his passes for 162 yards a game.

Sean's numbers- completed 73 percent of his passes for 188 yards.

Sean's numbers were slightly better, but not significantly better especially considering that Sean also benefitted from playing against a weak defense as Louisville and LSU in my opinion are better defensively than Moo State. The offense as a whole also looked better last night. We consistently moved the ball on the ground which greatly took pressure off of White.

So back to the interceptions... In an earlier post, I said that Sean wasn't pushing the ball down field and Johnson was. Every interception that we've seen was when the quarterback tried to do too much with the football. That also primarily accounts for the completion percentage discrepancy because white seemed hesitant to throw more than ten yards down the field. I realize that they had two high safeties for most of the night, but those safeties were playing 15-20 yards off the ball. Sean seemed afraid to throw more than 10 yards or so deep after that first drive. Maybe it was a play calling issue. Maybe it was a first game jitters issue. Maybe it was an arm strength issue. Either way, when you consider how weak that MSU defense is, I didn't see anything to make me conclusively decide White is a better option.

I agree with cole in that white only looked modestly better. Johnson was too quick to push throws, but white seems afraid to even try deeper passes. We need a quarterback that can make throws to keep the chains moving and can take some of the pressure off the run game. Neither guy has done that.

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I want to give JJ some credit here. I was at the game behind Auburn's sidelines and saw some encouraging signs of JJ as a leader and teammate. It looked like him and Duke led us out of the tunnel. More importantly, when Sean white threw the first interception I watched JJ run over to him, put his arm around him like he was his little brother and sit on the bench with him to talk. And he frequently seemed to go up to Sean and talk things over with him. JJ was also walking up and down the sidelines at different points trying to pump people up.

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Another aside: our center- who folks said had plenty of experience because he played one season at a different position at a different school- had a bad game last night. I mean, as long as we're dissecting individual players and talking about the guy who has to receive the snaps and trust the leader of the OL. But it was his first game with Sean and I think they'll be working well together by the time we return to SEC West play.

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I want to give JJ some credit here. I was at the game behind Auburn's sidelines and saw some encouraging signs of JJ as a leader and teammate. It looked like him and Duke led us out of the tunnel. More importantly, when Sean white threw the first interception I watched JJ run over to him, put his arm around him like he was his little brother and sit on the bench with him to talk. And he frequently seemed to go up to Sean and talk things over with him. JJ was also walking up and down the sidelines at different points trying to pump people up.

Exactly what I was alluding to in a previous post. Really impressive.

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Actually they aren't even remotely the same. Sean White, when asked to throw it, went through his progressions very well. There were several times everything down field was covered and he went to his last option and we got positive yards out of it. There were also times when absolutely everything was covered and he tucked it and took off running. We never saw any of that with Johnson. I thought Sean looked very comfortable back there and did a nice job. Redzone offense was an issue last year with Marshall at QB and it hasn't been fixed. I think that's a play calling issue. But to think White and Johnson are the same just isn't accurate.

About sums it up.

Well, like I said, I'm not convinced they are the same. But Stat also makes a similar claim in his report card thread. Essentially, statistically, SW did no better passing than JJ has done so far.

But I saw what y'all saw -- that SW looked more decisive and more in control. So, I'm asking cole for more support for the claim that JJ and SW are the same.

I think Stats point was that in the plays we called last night, it wouldn't have made a difference. I don't necessarily agree with that, but he has the evidence to support that theory. His point was critical of play calling, not White, and he wasn't trying to say they are the same.

Well, I've asked Stat to clarify just this point. Here's what he said:

Toss out the last offensive possession and 88% of the pass attempts were within 10-yards of the line of scrimmage. This conservative approach made the quarterback change pointless for the most part. Jeremy Johnson was already completing 84% of his passes without an interception within 10-yards of the line of scrimmage. Not to take away from a gutty performance by Sean White, but Johnson could have produced the same results.

I agree that his main point seems to be to decry the conservative play-calling. But one might also interpret him as suggesting that JJ could have done just as well as SW.

I think cole is suggesting that SW did no better than JJ would have done, or at least that he made the same sorts of mistakes. Now, cole's question, as I see it, is why is SW getting a pass when JJ was getting slammed. I'm suggesting two things:

1) SW did in fact play better than JJ, and

2) Expectations were dramatically different, and people are more disappointed in JJ because of higher expectations.

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I removed the interceptions. I'll explain why in a second.

Jeremy's numbers- completed 67% of his passes for 162 yards a game.

Sean's numbers- completed 73 percent of his passes for 188 yards.

Sean's numbers were slightly better, but not significantly better especially considering that Sean also benefitted from playing against a weak defense as Louisville and LSU in my opinion are better defensively than Moo State. The offense as a whole also looked better last night. We consistently moved the ball on the ground which greatly took pressure off of White.

So back to the interceptions... In an earlier post, I said that Sean wasn't pushing the ball down field and Johnson was. Every interception that we've seen was when the quarterback tried to do too much with the football. That also primarily accounts for the completion percentage discrepancy because white seemed hesitant to throw more than ten yards down the field. I realize that they had two high safeties for most of the night, but those safeties were playing 15-20 yards off the ball. Sean seemed afraid to throw more than 10 yards or so deep after that first drive. Maybe it was a play calling issue. Maybe it was a first game jitters issue. Maybe it was an arm strength issue. Either way, when you consider how weak that MSU defense is, I didn't see anything to make me conclusively decide White is a better option.

I agree with cole in that white only looked modestly better. Johnson was too quick to push throws, but white seems afraid to even try deeper passes. We need a quarterback that can make throws to keep the chains moving and can take some of the pressure off the run game. Neither guy has done that.

Sean threw it downfield several times and put some serious mustard on the ball. Evidently too much mustard for Duke.

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I removed the interceptions. I'll explain why in a second.

Jeremy's numbers- completed 67% of his passes for 162 yards a game.

Sean's numbers- completed 73 percent of his passes for 188 yards.

Sean's numbers were slightly better, but not significantly better especially considering that Sean also benefitted from playing against a weak defense as Louisville and LSU in my opinion are better defensively than Moo State. The offense as a whole also looked better last night. We consistently moved the ball on the ground which greatly took pressure off of White.

So back to the interceptions... In an earlier post, I said that Sean wasn't pushing the ball down field and Johnson was. Every interception that we've seen was when the quarterback tried to do too much with the football. That also primarily accounts for the completion percentage discrepancy because white seemed hesitant to throw more than ten yards down the field. I realize that they had two high safeties for most of the night, but those safeties were playing 15-20 yards off the ball. Sean seemed afraid to throw more than 10 yards or so deep after that first drive. Maybe it was a play calling issue. Maybe it was a first game jitters issue. Maybe it was an arm strength issue. Either way, when you consider how weak that MSU defense is, I didn't see anything to make me conclusively decide White is a better option.

I agree with cole in that white only looked modestly better. Johnson was too quick to push throws, but white seems afraid to even try deeper passes. We need a quarterback that can make throws to keep the chains moving and can take some of the pressure off the run game. Neither guy has done that.

You seem to imply the better ground game had nothing to do with Sean's execution-- he was just a beneficiary.

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Actually they aren't even remotely the same. Sean White, when asked to throw it, went through his progressions very well. There were several times everything down field was covered and he went to his last option and we got positive yards out of it. There were also times when absolutely everything was covered and he tucked it and took off running. We never saw any of that with Johnson. I thought Sean looked very comfortable back there and did a nice job. Redzone offense was an issue last year with Marshall at QB and it hasn't been fixed. I think that's a play calling issue. But to think White and Johnson are the same just isn't accurate.

Amen and Amen.
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Cole, you are jumping on the "Ha! Ha! I told you so!" ridiculousness while comparing Sean's ONE GAME of college experience to JJ's THREE? Doesn't surprise me, but why not wait until you have a fair enough body of work for Sean before drawing a comparison?

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Yes, you will deservedly get flamed for this thread.

You can try....better have some logic behind it though, cuz I DEFINITELY have questions I don't think would be answered

Sean White moved the offense better than JJ has to this date against a quality SEC opponent. Red zone aside, there's no question that White led the offense better. That's not a shot at JJ, but more of compliment to White. Now he has to get it in the end zone, which might have happened if not for a bad snap at the one.

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I don't see cole as saying 'haha I told you so'.

I also think comparing the two is a legit question that the coaches better ask -- who is more likely to help us win? Is SW really better than JJ?

But cole is asking a different question: why did we pile on JJ and give SW a pass for the same sort of performance?

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Actually they aren't even remotely the same. Sean White, when asked to throw it, went through his progressions very well. There were several times everything down field was covered and he went to his last option and we got positive yards out of it. There were also times when absolutely everything was covered and he tucked it and took off running. We never saw any of that with Johnson. I thought Sean looked very comfortable back there and did a nice job. Redzone offense was an issue last year with Marshall at QB and it hasn't been fixed. I think that's a play calling issue. But to think White and Johnson are the same just isn't accurate.

About sums it up.

Well, like I said, I'm not convinced they are the same. But Stat also makes a similar claim in his report card thread. Essentially, statistically, SW did no better passing than JJ has done so far.

But I saw what y'all saw -- that SW looked more decisive and more in control. So, I'm asking cole for more support for the claim that JJ and SW are the same.

I think Stats point was that in the plays we called last night, it wouldn't have made a difference. I don't necessarily agree with that, but he has the evidence to support that theory. His point was critical of play calling, not White, and he wasn't trying to say they are the same.

Well, I've asked Stat to clarify just this point. Here's what he said:

Toss out the last offensive possession and 88% of the pass attempts were within 10-yards of the line of scrimmage. This conservative approach made the quarterback change pointless for the most part. Jeremy Johnson was already completing 84% of his passes without an interception within 10-yards of the line of scrimmage. Not to take away from a gutty performance by Sean White, but Johnson could have produced the same results.

I agree that his main point seems to be to decry the conservative play-calling. But one might also interpret him as suggesting that JJ could have done just as well as SW.

I think cole is suggesting that SW did no better than JJ would have done, or at least that he made the same sorts of mistakes. Now, cole's question, as I see it, is why is SW getting a pass when JJ was getting slammed. I'm suggesting two things:

1) SW did in fact play better than JJ, and

2) Expectations were dramatically different, and people are more disappointed in JJ because of higher expectations.

Good points.

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