aubiefifty 16,754 Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 how would you rate our staffs ability to judge talent against say osu or even the turds staff? it might be just in my feeble mind but sometimes when we get players from other schools they seem to play lights out better than some we have playing on the field. and this is not a troll. i love my auburn tigers. i am just curious how we stack up? thanx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaltyTiger 7,789 Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 I would think most staffs are good ( including ours ) at judging talent. Developing talent out of high school to fit the next level is the task for staffs. Tuberville was great at it. It is harder to find a player that you can develop today because information travels even so much faster than in the Tubs days. Now all schools know about 2&3* high schoolers with potential. The time has come for us to see if Gus has a group that can develop talent. Like Dye used to say. " everybody in the conference has their share of players" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737 Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 how would you rate our staffs ability to judge talent against say osu or even the turds staff? it might be just in my feeble mind but sometimes when we get players from other schools they seem to play lights out better than some we have playing on the field. and this is not a troll. i love my auburn tigers. i am just curious how we stack up? thanx Does the uat staff really judge high school talent? Looks to me like uat just cherry picks the top guys. All of his staff members are elite recruiters. And I don't think Saban is very good at developing his players. 95% of his players underachieve at the NFL level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corchjay 5,311 Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 I agree WDE. Sabah is a master recruiter game day coach not so much. Developer he is average. One thing he and his staff are good at is coming into games prepared and playing to the skill level of their team not to the level of the competition. If his recruiting tanked and he was middle of the pack in the SEC in recruiting his teams would probably be in the lower half of the conference in wins. But for now when he lines up he has superior talent in almost all situations. Just look at the 5 star defensive backs they have piled on top of each other and rarely against an effective passing attack do they dominate without the defensive line man handling the OL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corchjay 5,311 Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 To answer the question about talent I think our staff is good. Do they find the diamonds in the rough not really but no one is any more. The recruiting evaluations that the companies do are great now. They find everyone for the most part. Plus a high 3 star is gonna get a bump when signing with an SEC school because our fanatics purchase their products more so then any other conference. Same thing happens at FSU, Texas, USCw, OSU, Ok... And many others that have big followings. We get our share of talent. We are generally top 4 in the conference. Ol miss aTm, UT and UF slip in that top 4 occasionally but the top 4 in the past 8 years have been UGA, bammer, LSU and us. Therefore you see the wins come from those schools. Our problem is we are normally the number 4 out of those in talent and play all 3 yearly. So based purely on talent we should expect 9-3 each year with a plus or minus in the column depending on chemistry and how the ball bounces sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionheartkc 6,150 Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 The thing that make bama and Ohio State so formidable is the same thing that made USC a perennial contender until they got their hand slapped. They have a knack (be it legal or not) to land multiple top players in the same position. That allows them to just roll to the next 5-star when one of them can't make the leap from high school to college level of play. Whether Auburn can get to that point or not is yet to be seen. I personally don't think you can do it without providing benefits that the NCAA would be all over if they caught Auburn providing them. These top players are treated like royalty in high school, so a lot of them expect extra for their services... especially when several schools are offering "benefits". It will be interesting to see if Meyer can keep it up at Ohio State if any of the other traditional powers in that conference manage to get back to prominence. Right now, he's like a kid in a candy store, with his pick of any player he wants, as long as they want to stay in that region and have a shot at playing for championships, since he's currently the only game in town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc4aday 1,887 Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 I think our talent is good enough to line up against any team on our schedule and have a chance to win. I think this coming season will be a good one no doubt. I like our level of talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU64 10,122 Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Evaluating talent is not the same thing as recruiting talent I expect our coaches are as good as anyone at evaluating players but some schools have a built in advantage when it comes to recruiting. ..."big state U" It is hard for me to quantify Saban as a game day coach because he rarely faces an opponent with the same talent level. In fact, I bet Alabama never faces more than one or two opponents a season with equal talent much less with superior talent. I am willing to state case that Saban underachieves at Bama considering the talent advantage he has over Bama's opposition. For example , how Ole Miss managed to beat them twice recently is beyond me because the rebels had nowhere near the talent on the field that Bama had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger 8,818 Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 ^ Yup his bread and butter is in being equipped with the best players. Recruiting is half the game and he's crushing that side of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigman334 56 Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 the difference is they develop players in their system better. just take a look at their crappy team with john parker wilson. they friggin won the SEC West..all players that go to the nfl arent going to be pro bowl players. just being a starter or in the rotation in the nfl means you are the best of teh best. a ton of SEC players arent pro bowlers. more excuses imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyAU 3,630 Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 It's not like we don't recognize talent. It's just that we can't acquire it at the rate Bama has been for nearly a decade. In fact, nobody has ever done it at that rate. We are all seeing and making offers to the elite players coming out of HS. Because we land a 3 star at some position, doesn't mean we didn't recruit and offer 4 and 5 stars at the position. We just couldn't land them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexava 6,973 Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Evaluating talent is not the same thing as recruiting talent I expect our coaches are as good as anyone at evaluating players but some schools have a built in advantage when it comes to recruiting. ..."big state U" It is hard for me to quantify Saban as a game day coach because he rarely faces an opponent with the same talent level. In fact, I bet Alabama never faces more than one or two opponents a season with equal talent much less with superior talent. I am willing to state case that Saban underachieves at Bama considering the talent advantage he has over Bama's opposition. For example , how Ole Miss managed to beat them twice recently is beyond me because the rebels had nowhere near the talent on the field that Bama had. i think I saw last season that they had not been an underdog since the USCe game in 2010. On game day Saban is maybe just above average. That is why the NFL chewed him up. The rest of the time he is virtually unequaled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keesler 5,924 Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 how would you rate our staffs ability to judge talent against say osu or even the turds staff? it might be just in my feeble mind but sometimes when we get players from other schools they seem to play lights out better than some we have playing on the field. and this is not a troll. i love my auburn tigers. i am just curious how we stack up? thanx Auburn has recruited and signed more talent in the last 6-8 years than they ever have. Multiple top 10 recruiting classes prove that the talent is here. I think our coaching staff can evaluate talent with the best of 'em UAT/OSU/FSU/LSU/UGA and AU can sign that talent and get them on campus. When that talent fails to produce a ranked team at the end of the season......well, that's probably a topic for a whole other issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triangletiger 1,599 Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Saban got to where he is today by being successful at lesser-known schools. He had a successful year at Toledo and built a mediocre Michigan St. team into a solid program. I'm sure he wasn't recruiting top tier players at those places, so he has to know something about developing and coaching players. He also started the ball rolling with the success LSU has enjoyed (after he debacle that was the Gerry DiNardo era). I'm no big fan of Nick Saban, but, with the exception of the Miami Dolphins, the guy has been pretty successful everywhere he's been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keesler 5,924 Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Saban got to where he is today by being successful at lesser-known schools. He had a successful year at Toledo and built a mediocre Michigan St. team into a solid program. I'm sure he wasn't recruiting top tier players at those places, so he has to know something about developing and coaching players. He also started the ball rolling with the success LSU has enjoyed (after he debacle that was the Gerry DiNardo era). I'm no big fan of Nick Saban, but, with the exception of the Miami Dolphins, the guy has been pretty successful everywhere he's been. We gotta knock him for something, right? In what most folks believe is the toughest conference in the strongest division in all of college football his team has lost only 5 SEC games in 5 freaking years..........but he's not a good game day coach, he's not a good developer, and he's not a good X's/O's coach, he's just a good recruiter.... okay.... Urban is a better tactician than Saban, but both know how to fill the stable with horses and they know how to train them to perform like thoroughbreds on race day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McLoofus 35,182 Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 ^Agree with those two. I don't agree with the notion that all he does is stockpile talent and then win with mediocre game day coaching skills. He has won at a historic level, particularly given how much more parity there is now (minus the NCAA turning a blind eye to his recruiting practices) than there was when guys like Bryant, Switzer, Woody and Bo were dominating. Now, I have pointed to his bungling of the Kick Six as evidence that talent has also played an extremely important part in his success at bama. In fact, talent is always the most important part of any championship team. But it's not the only part, and it's certainly not the only part of a program that has done what they have the last 8 years. Also, folks are fond of discussing the failures of bama players in the NFL. Well, yeah, when you put a ton of guys in the league every year, a lot of them will fail. And when 3.3 years is the length of the average NFL career, I'm not so sure that bama guys do such a bad job. And, given that 7 of their guys were taken in the first 3 rounds of the most recent draft- tied for 4th among all schools- with another 7 signed as UFAs, it seems the NFL isn't putting too much stock in the theory that bama players are damaged goods, either. Make no mistake, I hate those bastards. I HATE them. Notice that I won't capitalize the school's or the coach's names. But we have to be honest. They are firing on all cylinders- recruiting, coaching and the REC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subterranean_jack 112 Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 how would you rate our staffs ability to judge talent against say osu or even the turds staff? it might be just in my feeble mind but sometimes when we get players from other schools they seem to play lights out better than some we have playing on the field. and this is not a troll. i love my auburn tigers. i am just curious how we stack up? thanx Auburn has recruited and signed more talent in the last 6-8 years than they ever have. Multiple top 10 recruiting classes prove that the talent is here. I think our coaching staff can evaluate talent with the best of 'em UAT/OSU/FSU/LSU/UGA and AU can sign that talent and get them on campus. When that talent fails to produce a ranked team at the end of the season......well, that's probably a topic for a whole other issue. This is based solely on potential (recruiting stars) which does not directly correlate with performance on the field. UAT/OSU/FSU/LSU/UGA have all recruited at a higher level than AU over the past 6-8 years based on the simple scale of winning and losing. Another measurable would be putting players in a position to be drafted. AU has done neither consistently in recent memory. The main difference is that these other schools recruit for depth across the board, and AU has not been able to accomplish this, especially at LB, QB, WR, and DL. Every school has players that don't pan out. The real question is why AU has a higher rate that don't pan out at key positions. I think the main reasons are proximity to state schools and coaching turnover. With depth, a coach can plug in another player if one is not cutting it. Competition usually results in improvement. AU simply hasn't been able to recruit for depth at key positions in recent memory, other than maybe OL and RB. There is nothing to be done about proximity to state schools, other than doing a better job at selling your own program. However, having an AD that can conduct a proper hiring search is another matter. However, Malzahn, given another 2-3 seasons, may be able to start recruiting for depth and could prove to be a long-term solution, but, with the recent history of this program, I fear he may not get the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737 Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Evaluating talent is not the same thing as recruiting talent I expect our coaches are as good as anyone at evaluating players but some schools have a built in advantage when it comes to recruiting. ..."big state U" It is hard for me to quantify Saban as a game day coach because he rarely faces an opponent with the same talent level. In fact, I bet Alabama never faces more than one or two opponents a season with equal talent much less with superior talent. I am willing to state case that Saban underachieves at Bama considering the talent advantage he has over Bama's opposition. For example , how Ole Miss managed to beat them twice recently is beyond me because the rebels had nowhere near the talent on the field that Bama had. i think I saw last season that they had not been an underdog since the USCe game in 2010. On game day Saban is maybe just above average. That is why the NFL chewed him up. The rest of the time he is virtually unequaled. Average game day coach but the rest is spot on. Damn sure knows how to run a program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737 Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Saban got to where he is today by being successful at lesser-known schools. He had a successful year at Toledo and built a mediocre Michigan St. team into a solid program. I'm sure he wasn't recruiting top tier players at those places, so he has to know something about developing and coaching players. He also started the ball rolling with the success LSU has enjoyed (after he debacle that was the Gerry DiNardo era). I'm no big fan of Nick Saban, but, with the exception of the Miami Dolphins, the guy has been pretty successful everywhere he's been. Saban recruited real good at Mich St. I'm not saying Saban can't coach but he is at best a average game day coach. As far as developing kids, I'm not that impressed with the kids he has put in the NFL. Saban out talents you and that what sets him apart from the rest. Saban could be the best head coach recruiter college football has ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexava 6,973 Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Saban got to where he is today by being successful at lesser-known schools. He had a successful year at Toledo and built a mediocre Michigan St. team into a solid program. I'm sure he wasn't recruiting top tier players at those places, so he has to know something about developing and coaching players. He also started the ball rolling with the success LSU has enjoyed (after he debacle that was the Gerry DiNardo era). I'm no big fan of Nick Saban, but, with the exception of the Miami Dolphins, the guy has been pretty successful everywhere he's been. Saban recruited real good at Mich St. I'm not saying Saban can't coach but he is at best a average game day coach. As far as developing kids, I'm not that impressed with the kids he has put in the NFL. Saban out talents you and that what sets him apart from the rest. Saban could be the best head coach recruiter college football has ever seen. keeping focused and discipline on the field( not off) is strong too. They are not complicated just strong and consistent. He maintains that as well as possible. But you're correct it starts at recruiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keesler 5,924 Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Knock him for any pesky thing, bottom line is the man is freaking ruling college football right now like I've never seen in my lifetime. His "process" has been proven to work. Some programs appear to be spinning wheels, running around hiring coaches with little to no HC experience in an effort to field a team that can compete. Hoping desperately that the HC will just be able to field a team that just doesn't quit and shows some semblance of improvement from week to week. It's an uphill battle and when fans and people in the Administration see what other programs are doing with coaches like saban/miles/meyer they want programs that can consistently win and complete like those guys. When we see young coaches like Swiney & Fisher build a winning product and reap the rewards we want what they have. And when we don't get it there can be hell to pay, i.e firing a HC with a NC ring on his finger, or firing a HC that averages 10 wins/yr. I've been known to complain about coaching salaries, and AU has one of the highest, but it's a tough job. It's 24-7 and has to seriously age a man over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAG 33,974 Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 ^Agree with those two. I don't agree with the notion that all he does is stockpile talent and then win with mediocre game day coaching skills. He has won at a historic level, particularly given how much more parity there is now (minus the NCAA turning a blind eye to his recruiting practices) than there was when guys like Bryant, Switzer, Woody and Bo were dominating. Now, I have pointed to his bungling of the Kick Six as evidence that talent has also played an extremely important part in his success at bama. In fact, talent is always the most important part of any championship team. But it's not the only part, and it's certainly not the only part of a program that has done what they have the last 8 years. Also, folks are fond of discussing the failures of bama players in the NFL. Well, yeah, when you put a ton of guys in the league every year, a lot of them will fail. And when 3.3 years is the length of the average NFL career, I'm not so sure that bama guys do such a bad job. And, given that 7 of their guys were taken in the first 3 rounds of the most recent draft- tied for 4th among all schools- with another 7 signed as UFAs, it seems the NFL isn't putting too much stock in the theory that bama players are damaged goods, either. Make no mistake, I hate those bastards. I HATE them. Notice that I won't capitalize the school's or the coach's names. But we have to be honest. They are firing on all cylinders- recruiting, coaching and the REC. About time McLoofus, About time. +1000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyAU 3,630 Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Saban's a very good coach, a tremendous CEO and the best recruiter the game has ever seen. That doesn't mean he has the best eye for talent, but it does mean he is the best at getting them to ultimately show up on campus. A lot of coaches would look a heck of a lot better with the talent he has had coming in every year. He did not build MSU into a powerhouse. He had a run of 4-5 average 6-7 win seasons and one good year, after which he left. He did a good job at LSU and had a sub .500 2 years with the Dolphins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAG 33,974 Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 He leaves MSU and they don't win 10 games in a season until ten years later...smh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SumterAubie 3,031 Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Saban's a very good coach, a tremendous CEO and backed by the REC is the best recruiter the game has ever seen. There. That is more like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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