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B. Marcello on Finebaum


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Just now, Tiger said:

That's a good point and I can understand it. But we could've and should've beaten Miss St if we had a less conservative game plan. JMO though. I guess I would be thinking differently if we just punched one of those red zone opportunities in

You're totally right.  If we had not played scared that game, after the one INT, we would have won.  I definitely lay that all on Gus and hope it was a learning experience.

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22 minutes ago, Tiger said:

I agree with this that their skill sets aren't too far off from each other, but the lack of trust CGM showed in SW to start seemed to hold the offense back. Seems like they should've had a better idea of what White's strengths were prior to putting him in a game

 

The lack of trust made perfect sense really.  Coming into the Mississippi State game, White was a redshirt freshman making his first start, and he rather immediately threw an interception.  I do not think the coaches had any intention of White playing anything other than mop-up or emergency duty for the next two years heading into the 2015 season.

Johnson threw for 10 touchdowns, and 7 interceptions last year.  White threw for 1 touchdown and 4 interceptions.  Overall, that is 11 touchdowns and 11 interceptions.  Those numbers likely contributed greatly to any lack of trust in White or Johnson that the coaches had.

Personally, I never thought it was very complicated.  They headed into the season with what almost everyone thought was an excellent QB in Johnson, and a star/clutch/go-to WR in Williams.  By game 4, Johnson was on the bench.  By game 6 Williams was kicked off the team, and underperformed prior to that.  It is not easy to recover from the loss of two "star" players on offense in the middle of the season.  Fortunately, the defense stepped up to keep the score close enough that most games were completely winnable.

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Just now, Strychnine said:

 

The lack of trust made perfect sense really.  Coming into the Mississippi State game, White was a redshirt freshman making his first start, and he rather immediately threw an interception.  I do not think the coaches had any intention of White playing anything other than mop-up or emergency duty for the next two years heading into the 2015 season.

Johnson threw for 10 touchdowns, and 7 interceptions last year.  White threw for 1 touchdown and 4 interceptions.  Overall, that is 11 touchdowns and 11 interceptions.  Those numbers likely contributed greatly to any lack of trust in White or Johnson that the coaches had.

Personally, I never thought it was very complicated.  They headed into the season with what almost everyone thought was an excellent QB in Johnson, and a star/clutch/go-to WR in Williams.  By game 4, Johnson was on the bench.  By game 6 Williams was kicked off the team, and underperformed prior to that.  It is not easy to recover from the loss of two "star" players on offense in the middle of the season.  Fortunately, the defense stepped up to keep the score close enough that most games were completely winnable.

I understand both sides of it, I truly do. I'm just looking at what could have been and using my 20/20 hindsight vision. Even with all that you said, it seems if we gave SW a chance to open it up just a little we could've won against Miss St. Yes he threw a RZ pick on his first drive in his his first game. So I can understand protecting your QB but I think Gus might've gone slightly too conservative in that moment.

 

I also distinctly remember Manny Diaz selling out to stop our vertical passing game which probably contributed to Gus feeling uneasy.

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Staff really wants JF3 to run the entire offense. Way it stands now, SW to run the offense with heavy doses of JF3. Staff hoping that by fall camp JF3 has better mechanics and understanding, and they would like him to run heavy "veer" offensive passing sets. Tifwiw

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2 minutes ago, passthebiscuits said:

Staff really wants JF3 to run the entire offense. Way it stands now, SW to run the offense with heavy doses of JF3. Staff hoping that by fall camp JF3 has better mechanics and understanding, and they would like him to run heavy "veer" offensive passing sets. Tifwiw

Free nuggets are always good. Thanks PTB!

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1 hour ago, lionheartkc said:

I honestly think that Gus was just scared after what happened with Frazier and then Jeremy's meltdown that if he brought Sean along to fast he would lose him, too. I don't think that was the right call, but I think that has a lot to do with why he was held back in his first start.

I think they didn't know how SW would play in his first START, which was against an SEC opponent. That hadnt been done since 1999 when a FR/RSFR started an SEC game. So with no on field experience like JJ had gotten the last 2 years, SW was coming in to just open up the offense? I remember him playing well, until inside the red zone they called a pass play ( i think he rolled out, and trying to make a play before being sacked threw the INT. I think then the staff knew maybe they needed to bring him along slowly. INTs will do that to an offensive staff.

I think they were forced to scale it back some...until SW got hurt, then it changed again....

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19 minutes ago, steeleagle said:

I think they didn't know how SW would play in his first START, which was against an SEC opponent. That hadnt been done since 1999 when a FR/RSFR started an SEC game. So with no on field experience like JJ had gotten the last 2 years, SW was coming in to just open up the offense? I remember him playing well, until inside the red zone they called a pass play ( i think he rolled out, and trying to make a play before being sacked threw the INT. I think then the staff knew maybe they needed to bring him along slowly. INTs will do that to an offensive staff.

I think they were forced to scale it back some...until SW got hurt, then it changed again....

I'd agree with you if they hadn't opened the playbook up for the rest of the games, until he got hurt, and he passed for the most yards in 3 consecutive games since Craig was our QB. 

What I saw is Sean drive the field with confidence, hit an INT in the red zone, and the coaching staff collectively think "oh no, not again" and immediately reel him in for the rest of that game. Then the following week, after having time to think about it, letting go of the reigns and seeing that he was ready.

I often wonder, had they started him in game 1, and he hit that INT, would they have backed off or let him keep rolling. I think a lot of them hitting the breaks came from being gun shy after Jeremy falling apart.

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I didn't mean to insinuate that Nick or Cam couldn't pass.  Both had great passing games.  My point was that the rushing attack was the catalyst for those seasons.  Some of the biggest wins like Ark and LSU in 2010 and the Iron Bowl in 2013 had between 80-150 yrds passing.  Nick's first game against WSU wasn't great which is why I believe that JF3 can start out subpar passing and the team can still be successful. 

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Can someone post the QB's stats that was in front of JFIII while he was at JUCO?  Was he just that good that JFIII couldn't see the field?  Or maybe JFIII was not a good fit for that offensive scheme?

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1 hour ago, Strychnine said:

The lack of trust made perfect sense really.  Coming into the Mississippi State game, White was a redshirt freshman making his first start, and he rather immediately threw an interception.

I'd say that's a bit of a mischaracterization. The pick came in the red zone after he led the best drive we'd seen all season. He was on fire up until that point and everything was going his way. (Was that weird floater to Davis that had no business getting over the defender on that first drive?) He got flushed from the pocket and forced it trying to make a play. Far more experienced QBs than him do it all the time. And it certainly wasn't nearly as bad as any of the picks that JJ kept throwing before he finally lost Gus's trust. 

If Gus really lost trust in Sean because of that, then I'd be all in on the theory that he can't develop a young quarterback. I don't think that's the case, though. 

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1 hour ago, passthebiscuits said:

Staff really wants JF3 to run the entire offense. Way it stands now, SW to run the offense with heavy doses of JF3. Staff hoping that by fall camp JF3 has better mechanics and understanding, and they would like him to run heavy "veer" offensive passing sets. Tifwiw

Thanks for the input PTB. Have you seen JFIII practice any? Hows he look?  

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1 hour ago, passthebiscuits said:

Staff really wants JF3 to run the entire offense. Way it stands now, SW to run the offense with heavy doses of JF3. Staff hoping that by fall camp JF3 has better mechanics and understanding, and they would like him to run heavy "veer" offensive passing sets. Tifwiw

He definitely appears to be working like someone who believes he has a good chance of winning the job with some improvements. 

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1 hour ago, passthebiscuits said:

Staff really wants JF3 to run the entire offense. Way it stands now, SW to run the offense with heavy doses of JF3. Staff hoping that by fall camp JF3 has better mechanics and understanding, and they would like him to run heavy "veer" offensive passing sets. Tifwiw

Who's the local veer offense/ veer passing guru? What's  that offense boil down to?

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There would be a mob in Auburn, Alabama, but I thing the best possible scenario that could happen is Jeremy Johnson finally turning into the Heisman candidate everyone thought he was, and John Franklin III then being used as either a speed sweep guy, or can be red-shirted and have two years after 2016. What bothers me about this, however, is that I think Sean White is a phenomenal QB that we have not seen play up to his highest level. Remember, White was hurt for most of his time as starting QB last year. I would love nothing more than either Sean or Jeremy to win the job and take AU to Atlanta and to the CFP.

Hopefully, each of these QBs will somehow get to make their mark in Auburn Football history at some point. 

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2 minutes ago, tigerbrotha12 said:

There would be a mob in Auburn, Alabama, but I thing the best possible scenario that could happen is Jeremy Johnson finally turning into the Heisman candidate everyone thought he was

I would be surprised, but I hope nobody would be shocked if he wins the job. His competition is a guy the coach doesn't like, a guy who isn't an accurate passer and a guy who was in high school 2 months ago. #5QBs

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59 minutes ago, ALTiger said:

Can someone post the QB's stats that was in front of JFIII while he was at JUCO?  Was he just that good that JFIII couldn't see the field?  Or maybe JFIII was not a good fit for that offensive scheme?

Wyatt Roberts & JF3 stats Roberts had been there a full year. JF3 had only been there a few months. So Roberts knew the base system better & was a quality juco QB. Roberts backed up Chad Kelly his freshman year. Roberts was the better passer so he played more given East Miss already had a good run game.

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1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

I'd say that's a bit of a mischaracterization. The pick came in the red zone after he led the best drive we'd seen all season. He was on fire up until that point and everything was going his way. (Was that weird floater to Davis that had no business getting over the defender on that first drive?) He got flushed from the pocket and forced it trying to make a play. Far more experienced QBs than him do it all the time. And it certainly wasn't nearly as bad as any of the picks that JJ kept throwing before he finally lost Gus's trust. 

If Gus really lost trust in Sean because of that, then I'd be all in on the theory that he can't develop a young quarterback. I don't think that's the case, though. 

 

That was not a statement meant to be taken alone, but with everything else I said.  I am more inclined to think the coaches got caught with their pants down when Johnson and Williams imploded, and spent the rest of the season trying to sort out an effective plan B and pull them back up.  The offense never really got and stayed on the same page with any sort of consistency at all.  I have no real opinion on whether Gus lost trust in White individually.  My speculation would be that he did not have full confidence in the offense as a whole, as evidenced by the substitutions galore and slow pace of play.  I think they (Gus) expected to be in final tune-up mode at the end of September 2015, only to instead find themselves in panic mode at two key positions in particular and with struggling offense in general.  I'm not a professional football coach, but I cannot imagine that is an easy scenario to work yourself out of in October, in the SEC.

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Just now, Strychnine said:

 

That was not a statement meant to be taken alone, but with everything else I said.  I am more inclined to think the coaches got caught with their pants down when Johnson and Williams imploded, and spent the rest of the season trying to sort out an effective plan B and pull them back up.  The offense never really got and stayed on the same page with any sort of consistency at all.  I have no real opinion on whether Gus lost trust in White individually.  My speculation would be that he did not have full confidence in the offense as a whole, as evidenced by the substitutions galore and slow pace of play.  I think they (Gus) expected to be in final tune-up mode at the end of September 2015, only to instead find themselves in panic mode at two key positions in particular and with struggling offense in general.  I'm not a professional football coach, but I cannot imagine that is an easy scenario to work yourself out of in October, in the SEC.

Apologies, I should have added that I'm lockstep with you on that angle of your original post. Add to that the inexperience at center, HB, TE... it was not an offense built to succeed without a good QB, not that many are. 

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I can understand if Gus has put in more time with JF3 but i still don't think it's a great indication he'll be the guy. Although i personally hope it is JF3. I feel like Gus is likely spending more time with him b/c he knows what he has in Sean White and he wants to see if he can bring along JF3 quickly to see how they stack up as camp opens up. The more information he has on JF3, he can make the best decision for a starter sooner than later. Gus knows it's a critical year and we have to be ready game 1. I'm glad he's put in more time with JF3. JF3 has done a lot on his own as well and not to say SW isn't working as hard but i just know following JF3 on social media he's certainly taking a great deal of initiative to plan workouts on his own. I just hope one of those guys can lead us this season at the QB spot. 

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On 7/12/2016 at 10:22 AM, johnnyAU said:

I have thought from the start that JFIII was brought in as the security blanket he didn't have last season. Gus didn't prepare for the possibility that JJ would stumble out of the gate like he did. It looked like he just threw Sean in without a well-thought out plan for him and then panicked when he threw the early pick against MSU. Looked like he pared the offense down to bare bones for a while as he was trying to tweak it for the passing game. He didn't have a Nick Marshall to throw in and run the zone read as a stop gap. Now he has somewhat of a clone, but he is even less of a passer and needs more work.  It is concerning to me as well. If he doesn't figure out the direction he wants to go, we'll end up one dimensional again in 2016, and that usually isn't good news in the SEC West. 

At times i felt bad for SW b/c he i didn't feel he was often put into good situations to succeed. Many factors played a part in last season but i really feel like we did him a big disservice at times. 

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4 minutes ago, WarEagle1983 said:

I feel like Gus is likely spending more time with him b/c he knows what he has in Sean White and he wants to see if he can bring along JF3 quickly to see how they stack up as camp opens up.

Every insider & almost every reporter on all AU boards has said Gus is putting in so much with JF3 this Summer because he wants JF3 to win the job. Yes that means Gus knows what he has in Sean but it's more than just doing it to see where they stack up to each other.

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2 hours ago, passthebiscuits said:

Staff really wants JF3 to run the entire offense. Way it stands now, SW to run the offense with heavy doses of JF3. Staff hoping that by fall camp JF3 has better mechanics and understanding, and they would like him to run heavy "veer" offensive passing sets. Tifwiw

Thanks for the info! I've thought this the whole time. It just seems like with Gus's system that a QB that is adept at running and who they design some sort of basic passing attack around would work better than an average (or maybe slightly above average) passer that isn't really a threat to run. I realize Gus had some success with passers, but that was before there was much film on his offense. I just think his offense is harder to defend with the DT QB. Some might say that's overly simplistic, but it's the way I see it.

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2 minutes ago, ellitor said:

Every insider & almost every reporter on all AU boards has said Gus is putting in so much with JF3 this Summer because he wants JF3 to win the job. Yes that means Gus knows what he has in Sean but it's more than just doing it to see where they stack up to each other.

Well i wouldn't have a problem with that but i could see it the other way as well. I'd like to know how they stacked up so as a HC i can make an accurate decision. He's doing it now what he failed to do last season with SW IMO.

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16 minutes ago, WarEagle1983 said:

He's doing it now what he failed to do last season with SW IMO.

Agreed.

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