B. Marcello on Finebaum

[SumterAubie 3,031]

So i have seen a couple of veiled references that appear to point to Malzahn not liking White on a personal or off field basis. 

Am I misreading this?

[Barnacle 9,064]

1 minute ago, SumterAubie said:

So i have seen a couple of veiled references that appear to point to Malzahn not liking White on a personal or off field basis. 

Am I misreading this?

Concensus seems to be that Sean likes to have a good time - and maybe his focus has not been what it should have in the past. Others have stated that he is a vocal leader on the field and in the locker room. I think most of us are reading between the lines that there have been expectations from a leadership standpoint that may have not been met. Other than that, no one has suggested anything particularly negative about Sean.

[ellitor 33,062]

9 minutes ago, SumterAubie said:

So i have seen a couple of veiled references that appear to point to Malzahn not liking White on a personal or off field basis. 

Am I misreading this?

If you are referring to stuff you have read from insiders here then yes I think your post is misreading things. Gus & Sean clash a bit in that Football nerd Gus is all football all the time. Sean is business when it's football time but he is also laid back & likes to chill at other times. That's definitely a clash but saying not liking on a personal basis is a bit harsh IMO.

[augolf1716 21,095]

1 hour ago, ellitor said:

If you are referring to stuff you have read from insiders here then yes I think your post is misreading things. Gus & Sean clash a bit in that Football nerd Gus is all football all the time. Sean is business when it's football time but he is also laid back & likes to chill at other times. That's definitely a clash but saying not liking on a personal basis is a bit harsh IMO.

Yep 

[Auburn2Eugene 2,317]

8 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

 we become 1 dimensional and it's all over.

I don't post much, but have been around for a minute or two... I must say I fully disagree with this statement. In 2013 everyone KNEW we were going to run the ball 3 times for every 1 time we pass. Personally to me, that is the very definition of 1 dimensional. And also to me, it seemed to work exceptionally well in 2013. 

That being said, this is not 2013. 

However, at this time in 2013 Nick Marshall's true value was just as unknown as what JF3 could bring to the table. Sure Chandler Cox is an amazing athlete, but a Prosch he is not. Cox could probably outrun Prosch backwards and could catch better while blindfolded. But that's not what made us so successful in 2013. It was Prosch and his blocking, utterly obliterating those in M&Ms way. Add in that the other FB from last season is now a RB... Also the value of Greg Robinson cannot be understated. We don't have a GRob at LT this season. Our best, most dominating OL (who most resembles GRobs abilities) is an OG.  We have who Leff as a starting tackle now... That won't cut it if we go back to a 2013 type offense. We also should not forget the blocking ability and clutch catches we had at TE. Uzomah made some good blocks and clutch catches. Going into this season we have nothing but unknowns at TE. We have a 3* RSF and a 4* true freshman. One of those boys will have to step up. We have the potential talent at WR, but its difficult to depend on true freshman in the SEC...

Long story short, you absolutely can be 1 dimensional and win in the SEC. We did it in 2013. But some real changes would have to be made. Braden Smith would need (in my opinion) to be moved to LT and we would need more of a blocking FB. As well as someone to step up at TE.

 

I apologize to the OP. I didn't mean to go off topic. I just had to say we can win being 1 dimensional, then I kinda went on a little rant, lol

[McLoofus 35,182]

3 hours ago, ellitor said:

If you are referring to stuff you have read from insiders here then yes I think your post is misreading things. Gus & Sean clash a bit in that Football nerd Gus is all football all the time. Sean is business when it's football time but he is also laid back & likes to chill at other times. That's definitely a clash but saying not liking on a personal basis is a bit harsh IMO.

To me, personal = not football. A little too much being made of the "not liking" and "leadership" stuff. Gus wants somebody else who is not as good as Sean to become better than Sean. That's personal. Don't get hung up on semantics. 

[Barnacle 9,064]

19 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

To me, personal = not football. A little too much being made of the "not liking" and "leadership" stuff. Gus wants somebody else who is not as good as Sean to become better than Sean. That's personal. Don't get hung up on semantics. 

Just playing devil's advocate, but couldn't it mean that Gus sees JFIIIs ceiling as being higher than Sean's? 

[ellitor 33,062]

1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

To me, personal = not football. A little too much being made of the "not liking" and "leadership" stuff. Gus wants somebody else who is not as good as Sean to become better than Sean. That's personal. Don't get hung up on semantics. 

I agree on the 1st 2 sentences. Respectfully disagree on 4. I don't see Gus wanting someone to become better than Sean as being personal. A good coach always wants competition & players wanting to get better....In the post you quoted I was just pointing out (And Golf agreed with me FTR)  that there is usually a big difference in most people's eyes between in a statement that reads "Malzahn not liking White on a personal " level as Sumter was interpreting things and the reality of Gus & Sean clashing a bit on how Sean likes to be away from football. You can clash a bit & still like someone a lot. I just didn't want people to have the wrong impression of Gus & Sean or their relationship.

[ellitor 33,062]

1 hour ago, Barnacle said:

Just playing devil's advocate, but couldn't it mean that Gus sees JFIIIs ceiling as being higher than Sean's? 

Honestly I think Gus has become more comfortable coaching dual QBa than pocket types.

[McLoofus 35,182]

Very fair points, ellitor and Barnacle. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

13 hours ago, Auburn2Eugene said:

I don't post much, but have been around for a minute or two... I must say I fully disagree with this statement. In 2013 everyone KNEW we were going to run the ball 3 times for every 1 time we pass. Personally to me, that is the very definition of 1 dimensional. And also to me, it seemed to work exceptionally well in 2013. 

I guess that can be your definition of one dimensional, but the truth is, if you have passing as a weapon, which we did in 2013 (we wouldn't have won the Iron Bowl without it), you are not one dimensional. As it stands with the reports about Franklin, if we started him today, we would not have that option.  

Now, that being said, I saw the video he posted yesterday and, even though it was far from a game time situation, it looks like his passing is improving from what we've been told it was when he got here. That's a very promising development.

12 hours ago, McLoofus said:

To me, personal = not football. A little too much being made of the "not liking" and "leadership" stuff. Gus wants somebody else who is not as good as Sean to become better than Sean. That's personal. Don't get hung up on semantics. 

As a head coach, Gus has to consider more than just play on the field.  If it's true that Sean's off-the-field behavior isn't up to standards, than there is the concern that, if you hand him the reigns, he will end up not playing for reasons outside of football. Also, any lack of respect for standards Gus puts in place by his team leader can cause a ripple effect. "if the QB gets away with it, I can too." The only way it's personal is if Sean is giving 100%, 100% of the time AND being a model citizen, and Gus still wants John to start even though he's not as good of a player.

 

10 hours ago, ellitor said:

Honestly I think Gus has become more comfortable coaching dual QBa than pocket types.

I don't know that it's a comfort issue as much as a our receivers are young, our line is rebuilding, we're unsure about our tight end situation, more options for attack at QB is best kind of thing. A lack of faith in starting Sean could easily be as much a lack of faith in the line/receivers.

[McLoofus 35,182]

Okay, y'all are taking something I said waaaaay too literally and seriously, but it's a lot of y'all, so clearly I spoke poorly. Sorry about that. 

Lion, I know all that about Gus having to consider things off the field. That's all I was trying to say. Sean is a good QB *in my opinion*, so I *suspect* there are non-football reasons that Gus is looking for somebody else to be QB1, even somebody who requires a lot of special handling and who might not even be capable of doing the job. Again, when I say "personal", I mean that Sean isn't the clear cut QB1 because of factors other than his ability on the field. I don't mean that Gus has a "personal problem" with Sean, but that Sean has some "personal issues" that Gus feels need improving before he's the guy. I was just being a bit tongue in cheek when I said that Gus doesn't "like" Sean. Didn't realize it would start such a big debate about semantics. Again, my bad.

Now, Barnacle raises a very good point- one that has probably been raised before many times, if not quite so succinctly- that Gus might see JFIII's ceiling being higher. Well, really, I guess that's obvious. My concern with that is that it's not like we had a clean running machine already that will run on autopilot while he's off trying to mold clay. 

[ellitor 33,062]

2 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

I don't know that it's a comfort issue as much as a our receivers are young, our line is rebuilding, we're unsure about our tight end situation, more options for attack at QB is best kind of thing. A lack of faith in starting Sean could easily be as much a lack of faith in the line/receivers.

Many insiders have said Gus did not & may still not believe is Sean as a QB. Going after JF3 late last season is proof enough Gus was not fully behind Sean. The OL was ok enough to throw the ball down field more when Sean was playing. The WRs killed us against Arky but they were getting open all season. Still gotta let the QB take the shots when they are getting open which Gus & Rhett didn't til Arky & Kentucky.

[johnnyAU 3,630]

Just now, ellitor said:

Many insiders have said Gus did not & may still not believe is Sean as a QB. Going after JF3 late last season is proof enough Gus was not fully behind Sean. The OL was ok enough to throw the ball down field more when Sean was playing. The WRs killed us against Arky but they were getting open all season. Still gotta let the QB take the shots when they are getting open which Gus & Rhett didn't til Arky & Kentucky.

Actually, I think going after JFIII is more of an indication of not having a great backup plan if the starter goes down. Last year we really struggled with only 2 viable options at QB.

[ellitor 33,062]

With all due respect to the participants of the Gus Sean discussion including myself, this discussion is total rubbish & serves no worthwhile purpose whatsoever.

[Tiger 8,817]

lol damn

 

 

I think it makes sense that Gus doesn't believe in Sean fully. He wouldn't have gone after JF3 if he did. I see some are saying we need more options at QB but I don't think anybody in the nation has more than 2 options at QB, and most of the time they don't even have 1 viable option.

[Strychnine 1,802]

10 minutes ago, Tiger said:

I think it makes sense that Gus doesn't believe in Sean fully. He wouldn't have gone after JF3 if he did. I see some are saying we need more options at QB but I don't think anybody in the nation has more than 2 options at QB, and most of the time they don't even have 1 viable option.

 

I would be inclined to say you are correct.  Having a 1A-1B QB situation is pretty rare, as 1B is likely to transfer somewhere he can be 1A.  It's more common to have your 1A starting, with his future replacement as the backup.  That is what we had with Marshall-Johnson, and then Johnson-White/whoever else stepped up.  I think you are unlikely to see many teams ever have two proven 1A QB's on the roster.

[johnnyAU 3,630]

Most staffs like to have a minimum of 3 QB's, whether they are viable starters or not just due to potential injury issues. Look at what would have happened to OSU in 2014 had they only had 2 QB's. Last year we had JJ struggle out of the gate and look lost after 3 games and then SW go down with injury. Queen was already down with injury.

[AUld fAUx@ 2,584]

3 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

I guess that can be your definition of one dimensional, but the truth is, if you have passing as a weapon, which we did in 2013 (we wouldn't have won the Iron Bowl without it), you are not one dimensional. As it stands with the reports about Franklin, if we started him today, we would not have that option.  

 

I might go further.

Though definitely run heavy, the run game itself in 2013 was not one-dimensional. Every time Mssrs. Marshal and Mason meshed, the whole field was like unto a tesseract.

[Strychnine 1,802]

1 minute ago, AUinTLoosa said:

I might go further.

Though definitely run heavy, the run game itself in 2013 was not one-dimensional. Every time Mssrs. Marshal and Mason meshed, the whole field was like unto a tesseract.

 

Words I never expected to see in this forum include:  tesseract.

[passthebiscuits 6,831]

On July 13, 2016 at 2:32 PM, Auhud08 said:

Thanks for the input PTB. Have you seen JFIII practice any? Hows he look?  

I get to see a couple of practices a year, maybe a scrimmage during Spring. I usually get more invested in the Fall camp. I saw one practice in Spring camp and my overall impression of JF3 was fast, good at improvisation when the play breaks down and exciting. However, he is quite small (think Omac) and throws off his back foot and depends on his arm which isn't quite as strong as NM. Good kid though and he really seems to want to improve. It was almost impossible to tell from Spring camp because the new guys have their heads spinning just learning the basic offensive gameplan. RL and the offensive staff spend most of their hours on timing and pace for the new guys.

hope that helps.

[McLoofus 35,182]

Consistent with the general consensus on his strengths and weaknesses. Along with ellitor, a lot of us appreciate your practice observations, PTB. 

[Barnacle 9,064]

1 hour ago, passthebiscuits said:

I get to see a couple of practices a year, maybe a scrimmage during Spring. I usually get more invested in the Fall camp. I saw one practice in Spring camp and my overall impression of JF3 was fast, good at improvisation when the play breaks down and exciting. However, he is quite small (think Omac) and throws off his back foot and depends on his arm which isn't quite as strong as NM. Good kid though and he really seems to want to improve. It was almost impossible to tell from Spring camp because the new guys have their heads spinning just learning the basic offensive gameplan. RL and the offensive staff spend most of their hours on timing and pace for the new guys.

hope that helps.

I would imagine this has a lot to do with his accuracy issues. That's such a common habit with young, strong armed quarterbacks. There are some who can get away with it (think Cam Newton), but unfortunately a lot of high school coaches don't necessarily have to coach it out of kids because of their superior talent and as a result those habits persist into college. With enough reps, he can get through that, but its not a simple fix. Think of it like a swing change in golf. If you throw off your back foot, that's going to be the technique you default to. He'll have to get to the point both from a muscle memory standpoint, and from a mental standpoint where he doesn't do it. The video posted a couple days ago of him is encouraging. Any quarterback coach will tell you that accuracy starts and ends with the feet. Hopefully he's seeing the fruit of his labor. That will help.

[AUIH1 1,515]

On 7/13/2016 at 11:10 PM, ellitor said:

Honestly I think Gus has become more comfortable coaching dual QBa than pocket types.

I agree and what concerns me is that Gus is pigeon holing himself too much and that he is going to get himself in the Paul Johnson class of HC in terms of O. That would be a disaster for our recruiting going forward. 

 

wde

[Auhud08 596]

6 hours ago, passthebiscuits said:

I get to see a couple of practices a year, maybe a scrimmage during Spring. I usually get more invested in the Fall camp. I saw one practice in Spring camp and my overall impression of JF3 was fast, good at improvisation when the play breaks down and exciting. However, he is quite small (think Omac) and throws off his back foot and depends on his arm which isn't quite as strong as NM. Good kid though and he really seems to want to improve. It was almost impossible to tell from Spring camp because the new guys have their heads spinning just learning the basic offensive gameplan. RL and the offensive staff spend most of their hours on timing and pace for the new guys.

hope that helps.

It does thanks PTB