B. Marcello on Finebaum

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,662]

I wouldn't compare this situation to FSU. Everett Golson, an already confirmed success in the less conventional Brian Kelly offense @ ND, went to FSU and pretty much flopped. That is a NFL offense with NFL intricacies that simply isn't for many collegiate QBs. Maybe JF3 wasn't a good passer in JUCO, but I gotta assume Gus is a little bit better QB evaluator than some JUCO scout

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,662]

14 hours ago, AUIH1 said:

I agree and what concerns me is that Gus is pigeon holing himself too much and that he is going to get himself in the Paul Johnson class of HC in terms of O. That would be a disaster for our recruiting going forward. 

 

wde

I don't know about all that. I don't think Urban has recruited your Sean or Tyler Queen QB at any point since joining Ohio State, and the ones he did at Florida ended up being mediocre for the most part. He's one of the top 3 head coaches in the entire league. Chip didn't recruit those guys, TCU's offensive coordinators don't really recruit those guys, Sumlin doesn't succeed with those guys (or any guys at this point), Herman does his best without those guys. The game has pretty much evolved unto developing your dual threats to be better passers versus making your pocket passers slightly more mobile. Maybe not NFL wise, but those CFB guys from last draft that got picked highly, didn't succeed at all collegiately.

[AUIH1 1,515]

4 hours ago, Dual-Threat Rigby said:

I don't know about all that. I don't think Urban has recruited your Sean or Tyler Queen QB at any point since joining Ohio State, and the ones he did at Florida ended up being mediocre for the most part. He's one of the top 3 head coaches in the entire league. Chip didn't recruit those guys, TCU's offensive coordinators don't really recruit those guys, Sumlin doesn't succeed with those guys (or any guys at this point), Herman does his best without those guys. The game has pretty much evolved unto developing your dual threats to be better passers versus making your pocket passers slightly more mobile. Maybe not NFL wise, but those CFB guys from last draft that got picked highly, didn't succeed at all collegiately.

You make fair points.  However; Gus totally miss-used Sean White last season and Tyler Queen is unlikely to ever see the field.  Urban Meyer has some semblance of a passing game beyond basic HS stuff.  I am hopeful that the addition of Herb Hand to the staff will result in more Tulsa-like looks on O.

[stealthyfan 124]

and Tulsa like results.

[AUIH1 1,515]

14 minutes ago, stealthyfan said:

and Tulsa like results.

Of course.

 

wde

[TexasTiger 12,829]

One reason he didn't start in Juco was that they already had a successful starter from the previous year-- and yes, that guy was a better passer.

[ellitor 33,082]

4 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

One reason he didn't start in Juco was that they already had a successful starter from the previous year-- and yes, that guy was a better passer.

Respectfully incorrect. Wyatt Roberts was indeed at East Miss the previous year but he rode the bench behind a pretty good juco QB named Chad Kelly.

[ellitor 33,082]

8 hours ago, AUIH1 said:

You make fair points.  However; Gus totally miss-used did not have a plan in place in case he had to use Sean White last season and Tyler Queen is unlikely to ever see the field.  Urban Meyer has some semblance of a passing game beyond basic HS stuff.  I am hopeful that the addition of Herb Hand to the staff will result in more Tulsa-like looks on O.

FIFY.

[AURex 1,994]

Hmmm .... when I heard that CGM was spending more time working with JF3, I did not immediately assume that he wants JF3 to be the #1. I've assumed all along that JF3 will be the wildcat or special package guy, the option threat -- but to succeed as an option threat, you gotta have the pass as an actual threat. So JF3 needs to improve his passing enough to be a threat to throw it, and he needs to be confident that JF3 can pull the ball out, step back and throw it when that option arises.

Personally, I just don't see CGM gearing the entire offense around JF3, because JF3 is a small guy. All it will take is for one SEC linebacker to unload on him and he's out. Moreover, as someone already mentioned, this is a rebuilding year for the OL and the talent is just not in place to go to the option as the primary offensive scheme this season. If CGM puts all his eggs in the JF3 basket, then the Plan B is a completely different offensive scheme with SW or JJ?

I'm not an insider and I'm not inside CGM's head, but I can't help but think that too much is being read into the fact that CGM is trying to improve JF3's passing. CGM has made clear that he's going to be more hands on this season. I think he doing what he can to make the Auburn offense more diverse and a greater threat than it was last year. To me, that means using JF3 strategically, not building the entire offense around him.

JMO.

 

[ellitor 33,082]

2 minutes ago, AURex said:

as someone already mentioned, this is a rebuilding year for the OL and the talent is just not in place to go to the option as the primary offensive scheme this season.

 

It could turn out to be a rebuilding year on the OL but nearly every informed person & AU reporters are saying the OL is expected to be a strength this season. We will see about that but 1 thing is for sure. If they stay healthy we arguably have the best guard duo in the country...And I simply don't see the "talent is just not in place to go to the option as the primary offensive scheme this season" statement at all.

[AUwent 3,748]

^I agree. If this is a rebuilding year for the OL, we should not be starting three seniors.

[AURex 1,994]

With all due respect, guards do not control the edges, and as things stand right now, there is no combo of Robinson and Prosch to plow the way. Maybe that will change. Maybe Leff and Cox will turn out to be all-world. I'm just saying that I am not yet convinced that CGM is actually seriously planning at this point to commit to an option offense led by JF3 as the primary offense. I suspect that he is, more than likely, expecting JF3 to come in to run option and sweeps, with a threat to throw, strategically.

But hey, that's just my guess from the outside.

 

[DAG 33,976]

8 minutes ago, AURex said:

With all due respect, guards do not control the edges, and as things stand right now, there is no combo of Robinson and Prosch to plow the way. Maybe that will change. Maybe Leff and Cox will turn out to be all-world. I'm just saying that I am not yet convinced that CGM is actually seriously planning at this point to commit to an option offense led by JF3 as the primary offense. I suspect that he is, more than likely, expecting JF3 to come in to run option and sweeps, with a threat to throw, strategically.

But hey, that's just my guess from the outside.

 

 

Let's hope your wrong. Those "special" packages would be pointless once teams figure out that 90 % of the time JF3 enters the game, it will be a guaranteed run.

[ellitor 33,082]

1 hour ago, AURex said:

With all due respect, guards do not control the edges, and as things stand right now, there is no combo of Robinson and Prosch to plow the way. Maybe that will change. Maybe Leff and Cox will turn out to be all-world. I'm just saying that I am not yet convinced that CGM is actually seriously planning at this point to commit to an option offense led by JF3 as the primary offense. I suspect that he is, more than likely, expecting JF3 to come in to run option and sweeps, with a threat to throw, strategically.

But hey, that's just my guess from the outside.

 

The positive though is with great guards that can pull a bit and a big time blocking full back they can set the edge allowing Gus to bring back the buck sweep he loves so much but has used less the past couple of years. By the way, I love Cox but Pettway is & has been the better blocker of the 2.

 

And believe what you want but every single connected person to this program has said Gus in fact brought JF3 in all along hoping & expecting him to win QB1. Gus knew JF3 has passing deficiencies when he offered & took him. So putting those 2 things together leads to the conclusion of Gus expecting and planning an option O if JF3 was QB1.

[keesler 5,924]

I keep seeing posts about all this time Gus is spending with JF3 in the off season and when exactly are they working together and spending training/practice time together?  Coaches are off limits to their players in the summer aren't they?

[ellitor 33,082]

35 minutes ago, keesler said:

I keep seeing posts about all this time Gus is spending with JF3 in the off season and when exactly are they working together and spending training/practice time together?  Coaches are off limits to their players in the summer aren't they?

They get 2 hours per week per rules NCAA passed 2 or 3 years ago.

[keesler 5,924]

41 minutes ago, ellitor said:

They get 2 hours per week per rules NCAA passed 2 or 3 years ago.

Thanks for the info.  Do Head Coaches get two hrs per week with the "team", two hours with a specific position group, or two hours per player?  I'd like to know the specifics of the allowable time per NCAA rules.  Also, does every coach such at position coach & coordinator get equal time with their players?

[ellitor 33,082]

22 minutes ago, keesler said:

Thanks for the info.  Do Head Coaches get two hrs per week with the "team", two hours with a specific position group, or two hours per player?  I'd like to know the specifics of the allowable time per NCAA rules.  Also, does every coach such at position coach & coordinator get equal time with their players?

It's 8 hours a week total 2 of which can be football related. I don't know anything more than that. Link

[doc4aday 1,887]

On ‎7‎/‎13‎/‎2016 at 1:07 PM, 80Tiger said:

If you are developing game plans and an offense around a back up QB, you are doomed.

What about Ohio States 3rd string back up QB leading his team to a National Championship a few seasons ago?

[doc4aday 1,887]

I am a glass half full person. I think we will be fine this season and will win 9 or more games. I think JFIII is going to turn out to be a super QB for us and will make life hard for opposing OC's all season. We have competent QBs in JJ and SW. This is going to be a fun season that we all will enjoy. Relax and stay out of the pessimism cookie jar.

[ellitor 33,082]

On 7/13/2016 at 0:07 PM, 80Tiger said:

If you are developing game plans and an offense around a back up QB, you are doomed.

If that's the primary thing you are doing then yes that's doom. At the same time though, when the back up is getting his snaps if you aren't developing a game plan to suit his strengths, you are not fully preparing & that could be doom too.

[ellitor 33,082]

57 minutes ago, doc4aday said:

What about Ohio States 3rd string back up QB leading his team to a National Championship a few seasons ago?

Did not have to change the system that much because he was a dual QB like their 1st 2 QBs were. Just simplified things for him a bit.

[WDE_OxPx_2010 5,295]

10 hours ago, ellitor said:

Did not have to change the system that much because he was a dual QB like their 1st 2 QBs were. Just simplified things for him a bit.

People don't understand this. Majority of the reason last year was so bad for us. Changing systems mid year is tough.

[keesler 5,924]

10 hours ago, ellitor said:

If that's the primary thing you are doing then yes that's doom. At the same time though, when the back up is getting his snaps if you aren't developing a game plan to suit his strengths, you are not fully preparing & that could be doom too.

The QB situation would have thrown any college coach for a loop, plus your "go to" WR losing his mind mid-season.  Gus still has some learning to do, he's got to be able to improvise and adjust when things don't go according to his pre-designed script.  If he's got ALL of his pieces in place and he knows what he has then he can be a dangerous coach to go up against.  But if something falls out of the script, he hasn't  shown much creativity and little to no versatility salvage the product...he needs to let go of the stubborn streak and open up his mind and willingness to make adjustments.

[McLoofus 35,182]

8 minutes ago, WDE_OxPx_2010 said:

People don't understand this. Majority of the reason last year was so bad for us. Changing systems mid year is tough.

I hope this doesn't come across as argumentative or nitpicking, but I didn't feel like we so much "changed systems", or at least don't think we should have needed to. In my not-very-educated opinion, it was more about experience and continuity. Switching QBs is tough, as you said, but when you're plugging in a guy without a single snap under his belt... and he's surrounded by other inexperienced guys... and then he plays hurt for a bit until you have to put the other guy back in... I don't know if that's as much about "system" as it is about there just not being a playbook for that situation. 

Look at the bowl game. After Sean threw the 2nd pick in the 2nd quarter, Kerryon Johnson took the next 2 snaps in the wildcat. We put a *true freshman running back* under center when we needed to settle things down. I feel like that was 2015 in a nutshell. 

Or, as has been said before, ask summer 2015 Auburn fans how things would go if Jeremy Johnson, Duke Williams, Jovon Robinson and Roc Thomas all failed to produce for the vast majority of the season. Most of us would have completely written the season off.