I'm not trying to bring up bad memories, but...

[lionheartkc 6,150]

35 minutes ago, keesler said:

THANK YOU War Tiger!

The notion that refs hate Auburn and willingly do everything in their power to thwart on-the-field success for AU is just ridiculous.

 

Agreed.  I do think that bama gets a pass on holding far to often (the why for that is an open question), but in general my biggest beef with the refs is just that a lot of SEC refs don't seem to be very good at their job.  Several of the plays mentioned/shown above support that opinion, and you can see why, based on how blatantly bad the call is, it can appear like the ref is looking for ways to hurt the team.  The worst are the ones where it goes to replay, the right call is obvious, and they still can't get it right. That even bugs me when the call goes in our favor (I seem to recall Jeremy getting away with an obvious fumble last year).

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,652]

1 hour ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

1-2 vs Miss State is the one that bothers me. 

2 embarrassing losses (a loss can be embarrassing without being a blowout IMO) and 1 last play victory 

He needs to turn around his record against every major West power and Georgia for us to take the next step to consistency 

[AUApostle 7,651]

2 hours ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

1-2 vs Miss State is the one that bothers me. 

Gus flying by the seat of his pants is what bothers me.  Sooner or later it catches up with you.

[Tiger 8,818]

21 minutes ago, Dual-Threat Rigby said:

2 embarrassing losses (a loss can be embarrassing without being a blowout IMO) and 1 last play victory 

He needs to turn around his record against every major West power and Georgia for us to take the next step to consistency 

 ugh. The Miss State game should be a win 4 out of every 5 times for us at least. I really don't feel good knowing they have beaten us twice in a row with the other win being at the last second as you said.

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

4 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

Agreed.  I do think that bama gets a pass on holding far to often (the why for that is an open question), but in general my biggest beef with the refs is just that a lot of SEC refs don't seem to be very good at their job.  Several of the plays mentioned/shown above support that opinion, and you can see why, based on how blatantly bad the call is, it can appear like the ref is looking for ways to hurt the team.  The worst are the ones where it goes to replay, the right call is obvious, and they still can't get it right. That even bugs me when the call goes in our favor (I seem to recall Jeremy getting away with an obvious fumble last year).

The SEC ref just aren't very good. They lack consistency. And they do give uat the benefit of the most no calls. Every SEC team has complained to the SEC office about all of the no calls against uat. 

[keesler 5,924]

2 hours ago, Dual-Threat Rigby said:

2 embarrassing losses (a loss can be embarrassing without being a blowout IMO) and 1 last play victory 

He needs to turn around his record against every major West power and Georgia for us to take the next step to consistency 

Since Tuberville was fired, AU is 2-5 vs UAT/LSU/UGA.  Now, I fully understand what AU has to deal with in our cross-state rivals and I won't compare our program to theirs, because it's unfair an unreasonable considering their unprecedented success in the last 7-8 years.  But is it unreasonable to feel like we should have been able to beat LSU & UGA more than 2 times in the last 7 yrs?

I've seen many AU fans say that the "Bammer only beats Auburn when Auburn has a bad team, they never beat a good Auburn team".....Well, does that hold water anymore?  Does it also pertain to LSU & UGA?

[Tiger 8,818]

23 minutes ago, keesler said:

Since Tuberville was fired, AU is 2-5 vs UAT/LSU/UGA.  Now, I fully understand what AU has to deal with in our cross-state rivals and I won't compare our program to theirs, because it's unfair an unreasonable considering their unprecedented success in the last 7-8 years.  But is it unreasonable to feel like we should have been able to beat LSU & UGA more than 2 times in the last 7 yrs? Absolutely not unreasonable. In fact, I'd argue to say we should be splitting with UGA and LSU. and be winning 75-80% of the time vs Arky, Ole Miss, and Miss St. As far as TAMU I don't think it's unreasonable to say we should beat them 2 out of every 3 times we play them. They were average as hell in the Big 12.

I've seen many AU fans say that the "Bammer only beats Auburn when Auburn has a bad team, they never beat a good Auburn team".....Well, does that hold water anymore?  Does it also pertain to LSU & UGA? The worst part of that phrase is that it leads you to the point that we actually haven't been very good since Tubs left. We have had 2 incredible years in the midst of 4 average to subpar years, with the worst year in our history right smack in the middle of it. And in my opinion 8 wins should be a poor season for us. We have 2 SEC championships in the past 6 seasons, 1 national title, and were 13 seconds away from a 2nd. And yes, our main rivals (Bama/UGA/LSU) don't beat us when we're good, but if we're only good once every 3 or 4 seasons does it even matter?

 

[VipersStrike1 230]

17 hours ago, WarTiger said:

May have been "asking" for a flag, but again, no way you can definitively tell Coleman is grabbing anything. That call IS on Ritter since the white hat is responsible for calling holding.  Actually he's not any more responsible for holding than any other official on the field.  In fact, the vast majority of the time its NOT his responsibility, particularly when the QB drops back to pass.  His responsibility is the QB.   The white hat reads the tackle at the start of the play to gauge whether its run or pass, once that is determined his focus is on the QB.  He's got to be prepared to rule on whether a pass is backwards or forwards if its close.  Once the QB goes basically passed the line of scrimmage he cleans up action behind the QB (or ball carrier).    He can certain call holding but he's not solely responsible for it.  In fact, with the addition of the 8th official, he has to worry about it even less.  You've got 2 officials that their sole responsibility is the line of scrimmage where they are watching for illegal blocks, holds, facemasks, etc.  Never said he is solely responsible for calling holding on the O-Line. The umpire can too. I said he is responsible for calling holding. And he IS. He has a clear vantage point to do so. No other ref has a clearer vantage point to do so than white hat and the umpire.

The other two calls were PI, which are not the white hat's responsibility.

In case anyone wonders why there were zero holding calls in the 2015 IB despite 20+ pictures of proof...yup, you guessed it...Tom Freaking Ritter...   Conspiracy theories aside, the white hat doesn't tell other crew members what to call and what not to call.   That's not how officiating works. Never said that. Talking about holding in games Tom Ritter has resided over. It's not a conspiracy. It's a fact. Tom Ritter RARELY calls holding on AU's opponents' O-Line.

http://www.referee.com/five-minutes-with-tom-ritter/

RITTER: You know it’s managing the holding that we see play in play out, and trying to gauge the impact that that hold has on a play and whether or not it’s worthy of a foul.

Really? The impact of the play determines a hold or not. Where is THAT in the rule book???

The guy literally admitted he's incompetent.   Not in the least.  What he actually said is a concept called advantage/disadvantage.  I know there are a lot of fans that want things called by the "letter of the law" (usually when its directed to the opponent), but doing so is detrimental to the game.  It's an old saying the best officials are the ones you don't notice.  If they flagged things according to the letter of the law (rule book) nobody would be happy.  What he's talking about is how did that hold by #68 on the left side of the line, impact the play that went off right tackle?  Answer, it didn't.  "Step in and tell him, I saw you holding him, keep your hands open"  Conversely a hold occurs on #73 and the ball carrier goes right by him...Well, that impacted the play and is an easy call to make and enforce.    All these conspiracy theories simply don't exist in reality. Absolutely in the least. When he is not calling holding when it immediately happens and instead, waiting to see where the play goes / how much yardage it gained / whether he scored or not, THAT is incompetent. There is NOTHING in the rule book that states that line of procedure or conduct. NOTHING. If it's holding, you flag it. If it's not, you don't. It's that simple.

I get that crews have to tone down the severity of their calls to keep from stopping the game 50 times, but call it both ways and be consistent. Problem is...Tom Ritter's crew doesn't call it both ways.

I challenge anyone to find the last AU game that Tom Ritter resided over, where he or anyone on his crew called holding on the opponent's O-Line in a regular offensive formation (not a punting or FG formation). I'll save you the research. All the way back to Georgia 2011. In the last 8 seasons, Tom Ritter has resided over 11 AU games. His crew have called holding on AU's opponents' O-Line in a regular offensive formation just twice...both in the 2011 Georgia game...on the same O-Lineman...both instances with Georgia up 3+ TDs. TWICE in ELEVEN games. It's not a conspiracy. It's a fact.

His crew is also the same crew that called the infamous 2009 Kentucky game where they called TEN penalties on AU to ZERO on UK. That is nearly unheard of. He really gauged the impact of the penalties in that game. Not at all detrimental to THAT game.

Those aren't conspiracies. Those are facts.

 

[Tiger 8,818]

I don't think Ritter is seeing how much yardage is gained on a play before throwing the flag. But he's not calling a holding if it's away from the play. Which is wrong IMO. I understand letting it go once to tell the player that you've got an eye on it. But you're just going to open the floodgates for holding and similar penalties away from the ball/play if this is normal procedure all the time IMO.

 

@VipersStrike1, do you have a source for the holding/Ritter/AU stats? If true that is some shady s***. Not doubting you, just wondering where you're getting your numbers from.

[VipersStrike1 230]

43 minutes ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

The SEC ref just aren't very good. They lack consistency. And they do give uat the benefit of the most no calls. Every SEC team has complained to the SEC office about all of the no calls against uat. 

C'monnnnnn. That's a conspiracy theory.

[Tiger 8,818]

And by the way, LSU fans also have a huge gripe with Tom Ritter and penalties he calls against them. http://www.andthevalleyshook.com/2015/9/30/9423151/the-lsu-football-sec-referee-conspiracy

 

By their stats, Ritter really gets loose with the flag throwing when he's reffing LSU.

[VipersStrike1 230]

34 minutes ago, Tiger said:

I don't think Ritter is seeing how much yardage is gained on a play before throwing the flag. But he's not calling a holding if it's away from the play. Which is wrong IMO. I understand letting it go once to tell the player that you've got an eye on it. But you're just going to open the floodgates for holding and similar penalties away from the ball/play if this is normal procedure all the time IMO. Of course not calling holding if it's away from the play is wrong. Reference these two passing plays in the 2015 IB where bammer RT Dominick Jackson holds both DEs from getting to Coker from behind...(look who's in the upper right corner in the first pic a mere 7 yards away)...guess they just didn't impact the play. Wonder how many times Tom Ritter had to tell Dominick Jackson to keep his hands open and stop using chokeholds since they didn't impact the play......

 

@VipersStrike1, do you have a source for the holding/Ritter/AU stats? If true that is some shady s***. Not doubting you, just wondering where you're getting your numbers from. http://www.auburntigers.com/sports/m-footbl/archive/aub-m-footbl-archive.html

 

[VipersStrike1 230]

Apparently, Dominick Jackson can't take Tom Ritter along with him to the NFL...

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2016/06/former_alabama_offensive_linem_1.html

[Tiger 8,818]

52 minutes ago, VipersStrike1 said:

 

Ugh. What the hell was Ritter looking at here exactly?

 

Did you go back through all of the games and check holds/ who the officials were? That is dedication, my friend! Seems if there is something as glaring as that the SEC office would have something to say about it. What exactly is going on there?

[lionheartkc 6,150]

46 minutes ago, Tiger said:

What exactly is going on there?

The SEC likes to make money and they know where the most money comes from...

[WarTiger 3,901]

Viper, for some reason the quote feature is not including your response for me to accurately respond, so I'll try it this way.

Quote

Never said he is solely responsible for calling holding on the O-Line. The umpire can too. I said he is responsible for calling holding. And he IS.

Of course its part of his duties, on this we agree.  He has a clear vantage point to do so. No other ref has a clearer vantage point to do so than white hat and the umpire.  That is definitely NOT TRUE.  There is the umpire AND the center official (that's behind the line of scrimmage).  There's also the two wing officials on the line of scrimmage.  The hold (late in the game) against uat in 2013 was thrown by one of the outside officials.  Now this call may not have been against a "lineman" but it was still there and it was flagged and not by the white hat or umpire.

Quote

Absolutely in the least. When he is not calling holding when it immediately happens and instead, waiting to see where the play goes / how much yardage it gained / whether he scored or not, THAT is incompetent.

That's not even remotely accurate to what I said in the example I gave above.  There isn't any official at the division 1 level that is waiting to see where the play goes or how much yardage is gained or if he scored.   A hold on the opposite side from the ball is just unlikely to be called because it didn't impact the play.   There is NOTHING in the rule book that states that line of procedure or conduct. NOTHING. If it's holding, you flag it. If it's not, you don't. It's that simple.  NO. Again, that's not how officials are taught from the very beginning of their careers.  We are taught advantage/disadvantage like I mentioned above.  It's fine if you don't agree with that concept or rationale, but that's how it is.  I've spent 27 years in football meetings and on the field calling games and its exactly  how I was taught.  It's how every official in the country is taught.  Advantage/disadvantage matters. 

I get that crews have to tone down the severity of their calls to keep from stopping the game 50 times, but call it both ways and be consistent. Problem is...Tom Ritter's crew doesn't call it both ways.  Well, that's certainly your opinion that your entitled too. I don't necessarily disagree, but I don't think Ritter's crew is much different than any of the others.  Humans are going to miss things regardless of who they are or how long they have been doing it.  It's just part of it.  Mistakes happen every single game by the officiating crew.  Some are just way more noticeable than others. 

I challenge anyone to find the last AU game that Tom Ritter resided over, where he or anyone on his crew called holding on the opponent's O-Line in a regular offensive formation (not a punting or FG formation). I'll save you the research. All the way back to Georgia 2011. In the last 8 seasons, Tom Ritter has resided over 11 AU games. His crew have called holding on AU's opponents' O-Line in a regular offensive formation just twice...both in the 2011 Georgia game...on the same O-Lineman...both instances with Georgia up 3+ TDs. TWICE in ELEVEN games. It's not a conspiracy. It's a fact.  Assuming that is true, I don't see why that matters in the least.  It's apparent that you don't like Ritter as an official but again, he doesn't tell any official on his crew what to call and what not to call. 

His crew is also the same crew that called the infamous 2009 Kentucky game where they called TEN penalties on AU to ZERO on UK. That is nearly unheard of. He really gauged the impact of the penalties in that game. Not at all detrimental to THAT game.  So what?  It's never the officials job to keep the penalties even ( or fouls even in basketball ).  I agree its very unusual but its not an example of incompetence or inability to do one's job. 

Those aren't conspiracies. Those are facts.  They MAY be facts, but they simply don't mean anything.  IF that information you posted above is accurate, all it means is you have way too much time on your hands and are taking it personally with Ritter.   Seriously, who goes to that kind of trouble to document numbers like that without having any way to contact the one allegedly responsible? 

[VipersStrike1 230]

2 hours ago, Tiger said:

Ugh. What the hell was Ritter looking at here exactly?

 

Did you go back through all of the games and check holds/ who the officials were? That is dedication, my friend! Seems if there is something as glaring as that the SEC office would have something to say about it. What exactly is going on there?

I checked every game from 2008-2015. Ritter resided over 11 of them.

According to some on this forum, it isn't a conspiracy theory. He calls them how he sees them AND most importantly, is honest.

Ritter, like most old refs, is looking at retirement. Is tired of ruffling feathers. Would MUCH prefer to swallow the whistle rather than flag every other bammer hold.

[VipersStrike1 230]

1 hour ago, lionheartkc said:

The SEC likes to make money and they know where the most money comes from...

Ahhhhhhhhhhh...so you're ALSO on the conspiracy train. Gotcha.

You better duck.

[Tiger 8,818]

1 hour ago, VipersStrike1 said:

I checked every game from 2008-2015. Ritter resided over 11 of them.

According to some on this forum, it isn't a conspiracy theory. He calls them how he sees them AND most importantly, is honest.

Ritter, like most old refs, is looking at retirement. Is tired of ruffling feathers. Would MUCH prefer to swallow the whistle rather than flag every other bammer hold.

Gotcha. Interesting stats there. It seems really odd to be such few holds in 11 games. I already hated when he was reffing our games, but now these numbers will be something I'll keep in mind and watch out for.

[Tiger 8,818]

3 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

The SEC likes to make money and they know where the most money comes from...

Lol well I guess I see the point that it is in the SEC's interest to give benefit of the doubt for a team closest to earn a playoff berth. But that goes for all teams. We would have/did (if true) gotten that treatment in 2010 and 2013.

 

SEASON START, PLEASE!

[VipersStrike1 230]

41 minutes ago, Tiger said:

Gotcha. Interesting stats there. It seems really odd to be such few holds in 11 games. I already hated when he was reffing our games, but now these numbers will be something I'll keep in mind and watch out for.

He became evil to me after "Unsportsmanlike Conduct on #90" and the "4th & 1 Mackelroy 1st Down"

[VipersStrike1 230]

46 minutes ago, Tiger said:

But that goes for all teams. We would have/did (if true) gotten that treatment in 2010 and 2013.

But we didn't in 2010. In fact, the Georgia & bammer games when it was abundantly apparent we were the SEC's only hope, we were given the Berlin Wall. And we knocked that mfer down.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

13 hours ago, Tiger said:

Lol well I guess I see the point that it is in the SEC's interest to give benefit of the doubt for a team closest to earn a playoff berth. But that goes for all teams. We would have/did (if true) gotten that treatment in 2010 and 2013.

It has nothing to do with play-off berths or anything like that.  If you look at the numbers, bama fans drive the most money into the conference. The SEC isn't going to go after the school attached to their biggest and most active fan base nor are they going to go after the refs citing favoritism toward that school.  Slive has to get that $2.1 million salary from somewhere. 

[Tiger 8,818]

13 hours ago, VipersStrike1 said:

He became evil to me after "Unsportsmanlike Conduct on #90" and the "4th & 1 Mackelroy 1st Down"

The Fairley one seemed like they wanted to target Fairley and threw a flag at the first opportunity. I guess they wanted to reel him in after some late hits vs UGA. That was an atrocious one. I'm just going to sat the 4th and 1 was a one of the worst spots. Lol, even on TV you could tell he didn't make it that far.

13 hours ago, VipersStrike1 said:

But we didn't in 2010. In fact, the Georgia & bammer games when it was abundantly apparent we were the SEC's only hope, we were given the Berlin Wall. And we knocked that mfer down.

I'm just prefacing this response with saying I don't disagree with your underlying point that Ritter shouldn't be reffing AU games. But vs UGA in 2010 they called 10 penalties on UGA to 6 on us. And in the following SEC game against Bama the refs called 7 penalties on Bama to only 2 on AU. Sure this doesn't account for egregiously bad spotting of the ball but these numbers would fall in line with the theory out there that the SEC wants to push it's best opportunity to make the BCS/playoffs in order to maximize the amount of money the conference can bring in for a given season. For the record, I don't think I fully 100% believe that but at the same time if it is, in fact, money that is on the conference's mind, rather than just football, why wouldn't they? For the record, I don't know if I believe the conference is trying to help certain teams. It certainly is intriguing to think about though.

 

[Tiger 8,818]

1 hour ago, lionheartkc said:

It has nothing to do with play-off berths or anything like that.  If you look at the numbers, bama fans drive the most money into the conference. The SEC isn't going to go after the school attached to their biggest and most active fan base nor are they going to go after the refs citing favoritism toward that school.  Slive has to get that $2.1 million salary from somewhere. 

I think there is more financial incentive to push a team towards the playoffs than to appease a certain fan base. Bama fans will buy all the houndstooth that their budget allows regardless if the team is in the playoffs or not. JMO of course. Maybe my ear isn't as close to the ground on this type of stuff though.