[ShocksMyBrain]

Quote

LB Daren Bates, Sr., Auburn (Two stars in Class of 2009): The All Two-Star (And Fewer) team may be running a nickel by next month. First-year Auburn defensive coordinator Brian VanGorder wants thicker linebackers on the Plains, and to achieve that end, VanGorder may have to move Bates back to safety, where he started as a freshman in 2009. That's fine. With so many pass-happy teams out there, we're more than happy to play with five defensive backs to get Bates -- who started on a national title team -- on the field.

http://sportsillustr...html?xid=cnnbin

[aubrandon]

Thank you Thank you Thank you...that is where he needs to play.

[Mikey]

aubrandon, on 20 February 2012 - 06:42 PM, said:

Thank you Thank you Thank you...that is where he needs to play.

I don't agree with moving Bates back to safety. He was a liability there as a freshman due to lack of pass coverage skills. Now he's 20 pounds heavier and has two full years of valuable experience at LB. I seriously doubt if moving Bates is even a point of discussion around the coach's table during coffee breaks.

All other considerations aside, we are a lot better off depth-wise in the secondary than we are at LB. I think Bates is needed at LB much more than he is at safety.

[SCBusPilot]

Mikey, on 20 February 2012 - 11:25 PM, said:

aubrandon, on 20 February 2012 - 06:42 PM, said:

Thank you Thank you Thank you...that is where he needs to play.

I think Bates is needed at LB much more than he is at safety.

As a Senior with 2 years of playing at the LB position (1 on a NC team), I would think that his leadership skills with a group of young LB's would outweigh any benefits of moving him back to safety for one year. Just my $0.02, but the coaches don't regularly call me for advice.

[AUtiger98]

Looks like SI writers have been reading the Bleacher Report for scoops.
Linky

This post has been edited by AUtiger98: 21 February 2012 - 11:03 AM

[Raven_tiger]

Bates is too small to be an effective SEC caliber LB.

[Mikey]

Raven_tiger, on 21 February 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

Bates is too small to be an effective SEC caliber LB.

Travis Williams was too.

[Raven_tiger]

Mikey, on 21 February 2012 - 09:55 PM, said:

Raven_tiger, on 21 February 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

Bates is too small to be an effective SEC caliber LB.

Travis Williams was too.

Bates is no Travis Williams...

[mcgufcm]

Maybe not, but he is basically the exact same size. Plus, Williams played MLB.

This just illustrates: if Bates his no Williams, the difference has nothing to do with size. Daren Bates is plenty big enough to play LB.

This post has been edited by mcgufcm: 22 February 2012 - 08:12 AM

[mcgufcm]

To further illustrate, Auburn Linebackers from the recent past with their height/weight:

Travis Williams (So/Jr years) - 6'1"/210 lbs.
A.T. Williams (Sr year) - 5'11"/210 lbs.
Derrick Graves (Sr) - 6'1"/200 lbs.
Tray Blackmon (Fr/So) - 6'0"/210 lbs.
Merrill Johnson (So/Jr) - 6'0"/200 lbs.
Karibi Dede (Sr) - 6'0"/215 lbs.

Daren Bates (Jr) - 5'11"/205 lbs.

His size doesn't stand out from that list one bit. I'm guessing he'll come into spring ball 5-10 pounds heavier, which means he'll be bigger than AT and Graves and Merrill ever were. He's got plenty of size to play WLB in the SEC.

[Tiger]

But wasn't the knock on ALL those guys that they were too small? Going back to Tuberville's days even (since listed are LBs from Tuberville era) I seem to remember Auburn's linebackers being fast, they will not let you beat them side to side in a perimeter friendly offense (the spread -- see how Urban Meyer's teams fared), but the weakness was against teams that pounded the ball due to their size (or lack of).

With that said, Bates can play linebacker if he just wrapped up! His hitting style is more suited for rocking WRs coming across the middle, IMO.

[mcgufcm]

Those guys won a LOT of games (including starting for one of the best defenses in the history of the football program). They played on defenses that were always stout, and stout against the run. I don't know what knocks people had on the dudes on that list, but they all played top-level SEC quality football.

Also, "if he would just wrap up"? Seriously, did anyone watch the second half of the season? He was sound and consistent every Saturday. He was by far the best LB on the team from the midway point of the season until the final horn at the bowl game.

This post has been edited by mcgufcm: 22 February 2012 - 12:40 PM

[Raven_tiger]

Tiger, on 22 February 2012 - 10:53 AM, said:

But wasn't the knock on ALL those guys that they were too small? Going back to Tuberville's days even (since listed are LBs from Tuberville era) I seem to remember Auburn's linebackers being fast, they will not let you beat them side to side in a perimeter friendly offense (the spread -- see how Urban Meyer's teams fared), but the weakness was against teams that pounded the ball due to their size (or lack of).

With that said, Bates can play linebacker if he just wrapped up! His hitting style is more suited for rocking WRs coming across the middle, IMO.

I agree. Also Bates is already a bulked up safety, add 10 more lbs and he will be slower than 2011.

[Mikey]

Tiger, on 22 February 2012 - 10:53 AM, said:

But wasn't the knock on ALL those guys that they were too small? Going back to Tuberville's days even (since listed are LBs from Tuberville era) I seem to remember Auburn's linebackers being fast, they will not let you beat them side to side in a perimeter friendly offense (the spread -- see how Urban Meyer's teams fared), but the weakness was against teams that pounded the ball due to their size (or lack of).

With that said, Bates can play linebacker if he just wrapped up! His hitting style is more suited for rocking WRs coming across the middle, IMO.

What knock? I don't remember a knock on those guys, they were some damn fine linebackers. If you're comparing LB's in a 4-3 defense to the LB's in a 3-4, then yes they look small. A lot of 3-4 LB's are in reality DE's. We are running a 4-3 defense which requires speedy linebackers, we don't want 270 pound guys at the position.

[mcgufcm]

Look, if you have freaks of nature like we had in 2002 (starting LBs: Karlos Dansby, Mark Brown, and Dontarrious Thomas), then yeah, you'd love to have big guys that are just as fast as the smaller guys, but the reality is: those guys are rare. There's a reason all three guys were All-SEC. There's a reason all three played a number of years in the NFL. There's a reason Dansby and Thomas were first and second round picks, respectively. Most of the time, you aren't trotting out 1st and 2nd rounders in a group together.

Can we also stop using Alabama as a benchmark? Different defense, different personnel requirements. As Mikey pointed out, comparing 43 and 34 LBs is just a ridiculous exercise. It's as dumb as comparing 43 DEs to 34 DEs. The body type and skill set you're searching for is completely different.

If we all accept that every LB isn't going to be 230+ pounds while maintaining cat-like quickness and top-end speed (in other words, they can't all be Dansbys and Spikeses), you're often going to compromise between size and speed. Give one to get the other. If I have to choose, I'm with Tommy Tuberville. Speed and fundamentals are better than bulk. I can teach a small guy to tackle, but I can't make a big guy run faster. Sure, you can compensate for lack of top-end speed with smarts and positioning (see: Ray Lewis for the last 4 years), but in college, you're far more likely to succeed in an effort to instill proper fundamentals to a smallish LB than you are to come across a football savant like Ray Lewis.

In the end, I'd rather have a Daren Bates or A.T. Williams than Kevin Sears or someone like that (bulky but slower). I think you can be more consistently successful with the former than the latter. Obviously, I'd rather find Karlos Dansby, but that just isn't going to happen most of the time. Daren Bates is plenty big enough to succeed if he plays fundamentally sound football (as he did the last six or seven games of the year). He'll be even better if the front four does their job (apply pressure and hold the point of attack against the run), but he's good enough to succeed even without a great front four, which is exactly what he did this year.

This post has been edited by mcgufcm: 22 February 2012 - 02:31 PM