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  1. Talk about a whine ? It's basically the only thing you've done since this thread's resurrection? And quite frankly one only has to re-read my responses to see the restrain, to your now twice over the top reaction. . . Is there something, a health thing or another, that we can help with .. . things good at home? . . . As for misdirect ? This is exactly what you've been doing ever since entering this reopened thread. It was actually trending toward QB development until you graced us with a ga'normus dump about dual threat quarterbacks and how often a coach wins when having a good quarterback. Most of which had nothing to do with the discussion at hand. That my friend is misdirection and why it was called it out. You quite simply (and perhaps conveniently) mis-assumed that your statistics were being questioned. And you've slogged on ever since, using more numbers to merely bully (or ballyhoo) your non-situational position. Until it's now to the point your claiming high ground, from off a mountain of meaningless figures, which had nothing to do with QB development. They may be very good statistics, but they didn't apply to the discussion at hand. I never questioned their accuracy only their use. Real shame they were not pulled out on the proper day and in the right context. I even commend your opening remark. The one where you stated it's too small of a sample to fairly evaluate. Because it's just that, it's too small a sample to statically prove with great accuracy. However. that is not to say the matter is above discussion and/or speculation. The essence of my second reply ? It was to answer a rather hostile retort about having offered nothing of substance. Never-mind I was initially (merely) pointing out your obnoxious use of the term 'simply put'.... which was at best condescending... and certainly not simply put, as evidenced by the subsequent paragraphs of statistics (see: mountain of gibberish). Which as previously said the lion's share were non-germane to that re-opened potion of this thread You quite simply (thar it is again - the word simply) began over reacting to my pointing out your obvious misdirect and it's wayward shepherding of the discussion into another direction. (Hi, Jack!!!) And Which was an initial questioning made in what I considered to be a rather simple and non-threatening manner. If not my apology. . . And now in this third reply - you're seeking a detailed nuts and bolts break down about football? When all one has to be is observant of the most basic proposition. A premise which can quite simply be put: Did those quarterbacks since 2009 (excluding 2012 when Gus was not here) those who arrived at Auburn with other than high school instruction, did these guys eventually do better than those who received only post training here at Auburn? It's not a trick question. It does not require extensive football IQ. Nor does it require a computer to validate. It's does not require further quantifying in order to build a database. It only requires being awake long enough to see and being cognitive long enough to form an opinion, and if you don't remember who was actually on the field that particular day, with an internet search it's possible to garner the long forgotten. We all do it. Was it over thrown, off his front foot or back foot, was he not going through his progressions, across his body, or staring down the receiver? You don't need to know if he reacted wrong to package X-YandZ, in order to say that the results were not satisfactory. Whether it was good or not. Nor to know what his order or thoughts ideally should have been, in order to see if the quarter back has succeeded or not. So, here's are the results I've seen. My opinion - which is really what you offered. And to answers to some of your requests. (everyone else - feel free ignore) *) Rhett and being hired by Pat Sullivan - Yes, his stock was high that year. Let's hope it wasn't his pinnacle year. *1) Chris Todd - who was a good QB - and received extensive post high school quarterback instruction at 'two-other' institutions before arriving at Auburn 2008, and was put to good use upon his arrival. And served but one year under Gus as QB/OC in 2009. In rebuttal you claimed he spoke highly of Gus. Really dude - don't most of us talk good of our bosses to the press and when in public or when being quoted? At least those people with any bit of restraint or reason or decorum. Bet he talked good about his other coaches. *2) Cam Newton- a very good QB - What needs to be said he received extensive post high school quarterback instruction at another institution before arriving at Auburn, and has gone on to well deserved collegiate stardom and NFL fame. He was one year, then done, and now onto glory. It wouldn't have mattered who coached him as long as he got to the field (as the quarterback). . . although most every professional talking head still remarks of his form (which is still improving). * 3) Barrett Trotter - Yes, he was not what we really hoped for. Red shirted in 2008 (Gus got here 2009) and was injured 2009 . He started part of 2010 - he therefore received a minimum of 1 year of extensive training with current staff; although possibility two counting the RS year, before ultimately deciding to forgo his senior year. And just because these are opinions, to me at least, it appeared he did have some real talent. Like he was being coached up (and Gus was the QB coach back then). *4) Clint Mosley - we cautiously hoped he'd of done better - Red shirted in 2009 and opted out of his senior 2013 year, so he received instruction under Gus in 2009, 2010, and 2011. Like you said plan-b. However he was required to be the starter, and his resume shouldn't merely be passed on because your highness say's so. He did make the cut, he did have three seasons under Gus/Rhett., and this is (remember) or was a thread about QB development. At the risk of jerking a tear, it obvious you want to weight your tantrum to include only the good quarterbacks; because as a statistician that's want you always do. It's not like you're lying, it's simply cherry picking the numbers to present a case in your favor. (need a tissue ?) * 5) Kiehl Frazier - no he was not a very good QB, not at the college level (at least while at AU) - As a true freshman he saw action every game in 2011 with Gus as QB/OC , he started 2012 (year Gus's was not here). He therefore played for Gus his 1year and moved to another position. Hand picked by Gus and almost everyone else in the nation. Shame on you for faulting me, for choosing to not slay him by name. Because I respectfully included him by mere mention of there being two who have been busts. * 6) Jonathan Wallace - And yes to answer your question, he did get off to really good start. In 2012 as a true freshman, he started the final four games. Setting the then AU freshman record for QB efficiency at 139.60- http://www.auburntig...ace_807558.html . He really doesn't sway this question either way, as this was the year Gus was not here and NM was recruited JWall's sophomore year. * 7) Nick Marshall - a good QB - He also received extensive post high school quarterback instruction for one year at another institution other than Auburn. And yes, as you (so ironically) mentioned... he did have another non QB year. The one where he somehow failed to beat out this fellow named Aaron Murray (the SEC Career Passing Yards Leader and 4 year starter). Ya really think - that was a hard one for Richt to dwell on? As for the 18 int's... that speaks volumes about objectivity. You might as well had added he went 7–4. But while scoring 37 touchdowns (19 rushing, 18 passing) and passing for 3,142 yards. Or the part where he led all rushing with 1,095 yards. Dude, he was just not the quarterback, he appears to have been 'the-offense' and you fault him for 18 int's... Did he force it a time or two, too much.... obviously it didn't bother Gus. Wonder if his team counted those 18 int's as a fail? I believe more will say he's done good at both places, while at Auburn and while in JUCo. He'll now get a chance to do good in the pro's (just not as a quarterback). 8) Jeremy Johnson - not so good, so far - arrived 2013 has been in the system three years. Hand picked by Gus, hoped for by many, and still has some football history left in him. The book's still being written, but so far the results won't make the highlight review of a QB coaches career. 9) Sean White - jury out - Red shirted 2014. He has two years in the system and might excel - simply too early to tell. Rumor is he's gotten considerable one on one coaching, beside what he got in high school (the gist of this threads resurrection - before misdirection). I've not counted: but I believe the tally of better QB's is a bit lopsided toward those who have been exposed to something else between high school and Auburn, as opposed to those QB's who have not. And it really doesn't matter how much you write, crunch the numbers, publish, try to be cute, or choose to portray me; because to put it very-simply, it will not change any of the above. This is certainly not rocket science. Nor does it require 12 years of having played the game for one see the results. A daughter or wive can certainly see (and has seen) who's performed well or not. Because it doesn't require that you actually know how to play the position. What we are discussing are the end results, it's a summation and not the how-to which in question. It's how good have the results been, no matter how good the whine you serve. And BTW: No, I'm not calling for the head coach's head Never have. Merely suggesting there's good (t)reason to believe another QB coach could better serve the guy's we already have. It's simply called an opinion, it's what we do here and exactly what you offered (even if not as simple as advertised).
  2. (nice try) ... but simply put: some people can coach or teach; while others are simply not that good at it. It's not a matter of statics, or the scores they accrued, nor how good they can do something themselves. And It doesn't matter how long they try and certainly not how well they were instructed. In fact it's more of a gift that you're born and less about what you know. BTW: For the record was this a RL or CGM post... I got lost in the misdirect? My bad... I got lost with all the substance you provided and did not realize I was dealing with an expert. I will stand aside and allow you to move onto your prescribed path. Yes, I was once a statistician with a Fortune 500 Company. Not that I'd refer to it with expertise; however the CEO usually posted my work monthly in the Board Room, due to the quality of the pretty pictures. And millions of dollars of purchases were at least partially influenced by my work, which was greatly appreciated and thoroughly scrutinized. As for expert status - I'll reserve that for my small sport of choice Where I am recognized as one of the more excellent instructors (coaches). Not only for having won more NC's than AU and UA football teams combined, but for raising the performance of my students whatever their level. Having tweaked and worked with students whom were already NC's of their country, as well as Olympic Team members, and other hopefuls over the last thirty years. So I'm not new to seeing both good and bad coaching. Do I know football ... just wee bit's and pieces... and never have I claimed much knowledge. In fact often playing straight-man to others with much more knowledge, in order or just to learn more. However what I do know is a snow job when done with statistics. And I am well aware when a post or discussion gets divided to dilute the message. And it doesn't require an expert to know that no matter how knowledgeable, that is to say no matter how good a person plays the game, they may be mediocre or horrible at coaching. . . teaching, and instruction. And no matter how eloquently the numbers (and opinion) are presented, it'll not alter the truth that there's been both horrible - as well as - dignified use of QB's around here the past few years. And more of the good one's were not initially developed here. And for that you need no links (nor statistics) to see. Because the two best Cam and Nick came in ready made to play. While the two biggest bust's have been guy's who Gus followed and hand picked from HS. Of the others Barrett and Clint were here long enough to be included as being under Gus's tutelage as QB coach (mere years). And both were at best neutral in terms of discussing their development (and to not deride their contributions). Next up was Jonathan Wallace, who set Freshman Records and subsequently never fully evolved as a QB, so he may have digressed. Which leaves an injured Sean White who is still a big question and Chris Todd who was also another JUCo transfer (as well as red shirted freshman from Texas Tech). You claimed there was not a large enough sample; however with the exception of the Arky State year (2012) Gus has been hands on with the QB's since 2009. So I feel free to question his development methods and more importantly his boy wonder who has yet to show any benefit in quarterback development . . . as in improving his students beyond their incoming state.
  3. (nice try) ... but simply put: some people can coach or teach; while others are simply not that good at it. It's not a matter of statics, or the scores they accrued, nor how good they can do something themselves. And It doesn't matter how long they try and certainly not how well they were instructed. In fact it's more of a gift that you're born and less about what you know. BTW: For the record was this a RL or CGM post... I got lost in the misdirect?
  4. I don't think Marshall is relevant here. Different position and we weren't bumping up against the limit anyway. Could be wrong, though. Who'd a'thunk this required sarcastic colour.
  5. Can you say anything more? Understandable if you can't. Wants to go to AU but the pressure to sign with uat will win the day. Ben really loves AU. True Luv
  6. It's not a waste of time or resources. Steele & Davis are both from Gordo. So did they not want Evans? I think they use certain guys like this every year to try and make us look bad. Unfortunately it usually works. I'm putting it at a 1 percent chance he comes to AU (not that my opinion matters) Totally different families and class of people. Ben Davis and his parents are totally class acts. They have been upfront with AU from the start. I'll root for Davis even if he signs with uat. So what have they been telling AU? Do we have a shot or not? We'll get an honest shot. I agree. Lest you believe he's playing us when he says Auburn is sitting at number 3? I do. You believe he's playing us? Lol. No. He asked if I truly thought we were #3 right now for BD & I said I do. And I now see my error. I should have expressed differently. I think he is genuine saying we are #3 & I think it's god we moved up from 5 to 3. So.... he's praying us up.... instead of playing us !!!
  7. (SIAP - but his name doesn't come up in a search) AL.com has freshman defensive back Jordan Colbert as leaving Auburn's football team. My question: has this been taken in account for the numbers being throw around in the recruiting threads... in the number to be taken this year? *Me: (Friday was ether the 1st or 8th)
  8. Some animals annals are more equal than others. FTFY (RE: read closely)
  9. How long before someone starts a thread about him coming to Auburn? You mean you don't think he deserves another chance? Where is your humanity? Meanwhile, he might not be that great a QB but I bet he has good sources.....
  10. REC doing work! DOH! Sad-u-see the first stone tossed . . . (think I better wait).
  11. Simple, because of the raw # of LBs from Bama that get drafted or make the NFL. And because Nicks specialty is defense. It's what he played in college, and LB's are what he started with as a coach. Their head coach is their D and consequently it's been in a very stable condition for a long time. Which is what every one is saying is missing here. They know (see above) he can get them to the next level and he'll be there until he's ready to leave. Can Auburn offer that warm and cozy a feeling ? Not many places can.
  12. Less voodoo and more being able to see talent. The ploy around here is to claim recruiting services bump up his recruits. While the truth is more likely once he uncovers a gem the reporter takes notice too, because the veil has been lifted. Can we win some of these battles, yes we can. However I'm not altogether sure the best targets are being most actively sought out before the crowd set in.
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