Effect of shootings on players

[pwauburn 0]

It's very bad for a team, but other teams have had similar things happen and it actually pulled them together. Something went wrong at Auburn and I think the robbery and the fight that resulted in shootings are just symptoms of a bigger problem on the team, not the cause of the problem,

UConn's QB was murdered during the season 3 years ago.

http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=4574560

Yep, a total of 6 (or 7?) were shot that night. Reason for shooting; somebody danced with the wrong girl.

The problem at Auburn is that it's too close to Montgomery. The problem with Montgomery is that that type of behavior is tolerated there.

This is a ridiculous statement. Murder is not a joking matter and is not tolerated anywhere. To suggest otherwise is simply tasteless or clueless or both

Never said it was a joking matter. I don't mean that the citizens are tolerant of it.

Montgomery is A LOT more violent than you are probably aware, and a ton of stuff that goes on there is not reported on the news.

Imo, for the purpose of catching the murderer, involving the agencies that were asked to get involved was the best thing that they could have done.

[pwauburn 0]

I was there the night of the shootings. The former players who were killed that night were still directly connected with our team, and there was no doubt psychological grief for their friends on the team. Case in point, Eric Mack, who did not have life threatening injuries but didn't see the field. However, I will say again (and I get flamed on when I say the truth here) that the bigger issue was that there were a number more of our football players at the party. They were unaccounted for many of them after the shooting and I remember the coaches trying to find them. I remember how many of them were intoxicated or even had a few smokies. I remember that while "they were in the wrong place at the same time" they still happened to be in the wrong place, with a guy who was shot only a few weeks after shooting his own nephew. I don't think any of the guys did anything wrong, but it brought up an uncomfortable truth that to protect our players, we would have to have tighter rein on them...and that lost trust between Coaches and players. It's not just "one thing" that we had such a terrible year, buy yeah, the shooting did contribute in a tangible way, no doubt.

Great post

[NoALtiger 3,849]

I'm sure it affected some more than others as terrible tragedies often do. How much and for how long is debatable. All I know is the whole season was a mess and fingers crossed, we'll never have to deal with this kind of off the field issue again.

[aubfaninga 16]

I have stated that I believe the time lost after the shooting had more effect than most want to admit. With the youth of our team we couldn't afford to lose 1 day of practice during the offseason.

How much time did we lose? How long did it take the kids to get their head back in line?

I have thought about alot of these things and I still come up with the same answers. If this had happened when I was playing football I would have looked to the older players. Would the effects of the shootings been less had we had 20+ seniors around? I also think that it would have been easier to cope with, for me as a player at least, if it had happened during the season or closer to the beginning. Too much downtime during the offseason and not enough distractions. I would have been a mess for at least 2 weeks.

Agreed. I think that the fact that they were on the same team, that it is reasonable to believe that being around the team could repeatedly trigger thoughts of their murdered friends.

I fully expected to see our guys playing with excessive emotion (mainly anger) this season. The fact that they displayed the opposite makes me wonder what was really going on behind the scenes. I think your point about a lack of senior players is a good point. Having senior players around probably would have helped the younger guys a lot.

I fully understand your thinking behind anger and football. I am in no way trying to discredit your opinion because I feel it is very valid. I did play football as a younger man and understand how any emotion can be fuel for a coach. With that being said please allow me to throw a different way of teaching on this matter.

I am not throwing my beliefs on anyone so please do not delete because of religion. I am just giving a different perspective. As I have matured with my faith in the teachings of the bible (as well as a few other religions) my everyday attitude has changed and way of dealing with my inner emotions have evolved. For me, anger is something that has no benefit in my life anymore. There is no good way to use anger, revenge, regret, or any other negative emotion. I fully understand how these emotions have been used for thousands of years to influence people for a specific causes but that does not justify it. Chiz could have truly handled the situation the only way that he knew how as a christian. This might have been awful for Auburn football when it came to winning football games but Chiz alone is the one that will have to answer, someday, to his life COACH. I feel that his life COACH is the same COACH that I have. I might fill like a big 285 lb tough guy right now but I don't want to disappoint COACH when the time comes!!! He is a little more intimidating than all us Auburn fans combined.

[tiger88 934]

I assume it had some effect, but all the negative things that lead to this teams 3-9 record were present in last years team too.

I can't disagree there.

I simply don't think that we should be judging our guys as being a head case considering what they went through emotionally, coupled with the apparent lack of leadership that the team had from the coaching staff.

I don't think I've seen too many people at all claiming the players were head cases this year. They played like they did because they were horrifically coached, period.

Of course the effect of the shootings is there, but with good coaching we are a winning football team.

Pretty much everyone I know blames the coaches, not the players. This thread is a bunch of unnecessary drama to me. Our players are young MEN. they are capable of picking up the pieces and moving on. Too bad the coaching was pathetic to start the year and got worse.

[tiger88 934]

I have stated that I believe the time lost after the shooting had more effect than most want to admit. With the youth of our team we couldn't afford to lose 1 day of practice during the offseason.

How much time did we lose? How long did it take the kids to get their head back in line?

I have thought about alot of these things and I still come up with the same answers. If this had happened when I was playing football I would have looked to the older players. Would the effects of the shootings been less had we had 20+ seniors around? I also think that it would have been easier to cope with, for me as a player at least, if it had happened during the season or closer to the beginning. Too much downtime during the offseason and not enough distractions. I would have been a mess for at least 2 weeks.

Agreed. I think that the fact that they were on the same team, that it is reasonable to believe that being around the team could repeatedly trigger thoughts of their murdered friends.

I fully expected to see our guys playing with excessive emotion (mainly anger) this season. The fact that they displayed the opposite makes me wonder what was really going on behind the scenes. I think your point about a lack of senior players is a good point. Having senior players around probably would have helped the younger guys a lot.

I fully understand your thinking behind anger and football. I am in no way trying to discredit your opinion because I feel it is very valid. I did play football as a younger man and understand how any emotion can be fuel for a coach. With that being said please allow me to throw a different way of teaching on this matter.

I am not throwing my beliefs on anyone so please do not delete because of religion. I am just giving a different perspective. As I have matured with my faith in the teachings of the bible (as well as a few other religions) my everyday attitude has changed and way of dealing with my inner emotions have evolved. For me, anger is something that has no benefit in my life anymore. There is no good way to use anger, revenge, regret, or any other negative emotion. I fully understand how these emotions have been used for thousands of years to influence people for a specific causes but that does not justify it. Chiz could have truly handled the situation the only way that he knew how as a christian. This might have been awful for Auburn football when it came to winning football games but Chiz alone is the one that will have to answer, someday, to his life COACH. I feel that his life COACH is the same COACH that I have. I might fill like a big 285 lb tough guy right now but I don't want to disappoint COACH when the time comes!!! He is a little more intimidating than all us Auburn fans combined.

No good way to use anger? Puhleeeze. If someone attacks you and it makes you mad and you channel that anger to help you fight back that is not a good thing? Or are you a pacifist?

[mustache eagle 2,388]

I was there the night of the shootings. The former players who were killed that night were still directly connected with our team, and there was no doubt psychological grief for their friends on the team. Case in point, Eric Mack, who did not have life threatening injuries but didn't see the field. However, I will say again (and I get flamed on when I say the truth here) that the bigger issue was that there were a number more of our football players at the party. They were unaccounted for many of them after the shooting and I remember the coaches trying to find them. I remember how many of them were intoxicated or even had a few smokies. I remember that while "they were in the wrong place at the same time" they still happened to be in the wrong place, with a guy who was shot only a few weeks after shooting his own nephew. I don't think any of the guys did anything wrong, but it brought up an uncomfortable truth that to protect our players, we would have to have tighter rein on them...and that lost trust between Coaches and players. It's not just "one thing" that we had such a terrible year, buy yeah, the shooting did contribute in a tangible way, no doubt.

great post.

I have personal experience in this area and can tell folks that the emotions can be crazy and not everyone responds the same. The dynamics of this situation had to have an effect on the team but obviously it was one of many, which is why they had an historically poor year.

[aubfaninga 16]

I have stated that I believe the time lost after the shooting had more effect than most want to admit. With the youth of our team we couldn't afford to lose 1 day of practice during the offseason.

How much time did we lose? How long did it take the kids to get their head back in line?

I have thought about alot of these things and I still come up with the same answers. If this had happened when I was playing football I would have looked to the older players. Would the effects of the shootings been less had we had 20+ seniors around? I also think that it would have been easier to cope with, for me as a player at least, if it had happened during the season or closer to the beginning. Too much downtime during the offseason and not enough distractions. I would have been a mess for at least 2 weeks.

Agreed. I think that the fact that they were on the same team, that it is reasonable to believe that being around the team could repeatedly trigger thoughts of their murdered friends.

I fully expected to see our guys playing with excessive emotion (mainly anger) this season. The fact that they displayed the opposite makes me wonder what was really going on behind the scenes. I think your point about a lack of senior players is a good point. Having senior players around probably would have helped the younger guys a lot.

I fully understand your thinking behind anger and football. I am in no way trying to discredit your opinion because I feel it is very valid. I did play football as a younger man and understand how any emotion can be fuel for a coach. With that being said please allow me to throw a different way of teaching on this matter.

I am not throwing my beliefs on anyone so please do not delete because of religion. I am just giving a different perspective. As I have matured with my faith in the teachings of the bible (as well as a few other religions) my everyday attitude has changed and way of dealing with my inner emotions have evolved. For me, anger is something that has no benefit in my life anymore. There is no good way to use anger, revenge, regret, or any other negative emotion. I fully understand how these emotions have been used for thousands of years to influence people for a specific causes but that does not justify it. Chiz could have truly handled the situation the only way that he knew how as a christian. This might have been awful for Auburn football when it came to winning football games but Chiz alone is the one that will have to answer, someday, to his life COACH. I feel that his life COACH is the same COACH that I have. I might fill like a big 285 lb tough guy right now but I don't want to disappoint COACH when the time comes!!! He is a little more intimidating than all us Auburn fans combined.

No good way to use anger? Puhleeeze. If someone attacks you and it makes you mad and you channel that anger to help you fight back that is not a good thing? Or are you a pacifist?

Am I opposed to war and violence? yes!!!

Do I have natural survival instincts? yes!!!

If I am attacked I will defend myself but the natural (or god given) instinct to survive has nothing to do with anger. In fact the emotion of anger can block the use of "sound and prudent judgment based on a simple perception of the situation or facts." or Common Sense.

[pwauburn 0]

I have stated that I believe the time lost after the shooting had more effect than most want to admit. With the youth of our team we couldn't afford to lose 1 day of practice during the offseason.

How much time did we lose? How long did it take the kids to get their head back in line?

I have thought about alot of these things and I still come up with the same answers. If this had happened when I was playing football I would have looked to the older players. Would the effects of the shootings been less had we had 20+ seniors around? I also think that it would have been easier to cope with, for me as a player at least, if it had happened during the season or closer to the beginning. Too much downtime during the offseason and not enough distractions. I would have been a mess for at least 2 weeks.

Agreed. I think that the fact that they were on the same team, that it is reasonable to believe that being around the team could repeatedly trigger thoughts of their murdered friends.

I fully expected to see our guys playing with excessive emotion (mainly anger) this season. The fact that they displayed the opposite makes me wonder what was really going on behind the scenes. I think your point about a lack of senior players is a good point. Having senior players around probably would have helped the younger guys a lot.

I fully understand your thinking behind anger and football. I am in no way trying to discredit your opinion because I feel it is very valid. I did play football as a younger man and understand how any emotion can be fuel for a coach. With that being said please allow me to throw a different way of teaching on this matter.

I am not throwing my beliefs on anyone so please do not delete because of religion. I am just giving a different perspective. As I have matured with my faith in the teachings of the bible (as well as a few other religions) my everyday attitude has changed and way of dealing with my inner emotions have evolved. For me, anger is something that has no benefit in my life anymore. There is no good way to use anger, revenge, regret, or any other negative emotion. I fully understand how these emotions have been used for thousands of years to influence people for a specific causes but that does not justify it. Chiz could have truly handled the situation the only way that he knew how as a christian. This might have been awful for Auburn football when it came to winning football games but Chiz alone is the one that will have to answer, someday, to his life COACH. I feel that his life COACH is the same COACH that I have. I might fill like a big 285 lb tough guy right now but I don't want to disappoint COACH when the time comes!!! He is a little more intimidating than all us Auburn fans combined.

No good way to use anger? Puhleeeze. If someone attacks you and it makes you mad and you channel that anger to help you fight back that is not a good thing? Or are you a pacifist?

Am I opposed to war and violence? yes!!!

Do I have natural survival instincts? yes!!!

If I am attacked I will defend myself but the natural (or god given) instinct to survive has nothing to do with anger. In fact the emotion of anger can block the use of "sound and prudent judgment based on a simple perception of the situation or facts." or Common Sense.

Anger gets stuff accomplished

[pwauburn 0]

I assume it had some effect, but all the negative things that lead to this teams 3-9 record were present in last years team too.

I can't disagree there.

I simply don't think that we should be judging our guys as being a head case considering what they went through emotionally, coupled with the apparent lack of leadership that the team had from the coaching staff.

I don't think I've seen too many people at all claiming the players were head cases this year. They played like they did because they were horrifically coached, period.

Of course the effect of the shootings is there, but with good coaching we are a winning football team.

Pretty much everyone I know blames the coaches, not the players. This thread is a bunch of unnecessary drama to me. Our players are young MEN. they are capable of picking up the pieces and moving on. Too bad the coaching was pathetic to start the year and got worse.

The OP was in response to another thread where a few were implying that one of our players was a head case. May or may not be true, but I think we should comsider the big picture before saying things like that.

[tiger88 934]

I have stated that I believe the time lost after the shooting had more effect than most want to admit. With the youth of our team we couldn't afford to lose 1 day of practice during the offseason.

How much time did we lose? How long did it take the kids to get their head back in line?

I have thought about alot of these things and I still come up with the same answers. If this had happened when I was playing football I would have looked to the older players. Would the effects of the shootings been less had we had 20+ seniors around? I also think that it would have been easier to cope with, for me as a player at least, if it had happened during the season or closer to the beginning. Too much downtime during the offseason and not enough distractions. I would have been a mess for at least 2 weeks.

Agreed. I think that the fact that they were on the same team, that it is reasonable to believe that being around the team could repeatedly trigger thoughts of their murdered friends.

I fully expected to see our guys playing with excessive emotion (mainly anger) this season. The fact that they displayed the opposite makes me wonder what was really going on behind the scenes. I think your point about a lack of senior players is a good point. Having senior players around probably would have helped the younger guys a lot.

I fully understand your thinking behind anger and football. I am in no way trying to discredit your opinion because I feel it is very valid. I did play football as a younger man and understand how any emotion can be fuel for a coach. With that being said please allow me to throw a different way of teaching on this matter.

I am not throwing my beliefs on anyone so please do not delete because of religion. I am just giving a different perspective. As I have matured with my faith in the teachings of the bible (as well as a few other religions) my everyday attitude has changed and way of dealing with my inner emotions have evolved. For me, anger is something that has no benefit in my life anymore. There is no good way to use anger, revenge, regret, or any other negative emotion. I fully understand how these emotions have been used for thousands of years to influence people for a specific causes but that does not justify it. Chiz could have truly handled the situation the only way that he knew how as a christian. This might have been awful for Auburn football when it came to winning football games but Chiz alone is the one that will have to answer, someday, to his life COACH. I feel that his life COACH is the same COACH that I have. I might fill like a big 285 lb tough guy right now but I don't want to disappoint COACH when the time comes!!! He is a little more intimidating than all us Auburn fans combined.

No good way to use anger? Puhleeeze. If someone attacks you and it makes you mad and you channel that anger to help you fight back that is not a good thing? Or are you a pacifist?

Am I opposed to war and violence? yes!!!

Do I have natural survival instincts? yes!!!

If I am attacked I will defend myself but the natural (or god given) instinct to survive has nothing to do with anger. In fact the emotion of anger can block the use of "sound and prudent judgment based on a simple perception of the situation or facts." or Common Sense.

I'd say the only person who could defend themselves against a violent attack without exhibiting anger would be a complete sociopath.

[aubfaninga 16]

Anger gets stuff accomplished

All of the oldest and deadliest martial arts beg to differ.

Like I stated earlier, I understand emotions in sports. I can honestly say that my best performances were in a neutral state of mind in which I employed all of my skills that had been coached to me, includind the art of aggresion. (which is not anger or fear)

My best athletic performance came during a game in which I was recovering from flu like symptoms. Again, I feel this was my "survival instincts" at work and not any emotion that I had. In fact, I can't recall having any emotions while I had these flu symptoms.

[aubfaninga 16]

I'd say the only person who could defend themselves against a violent attack without exhibiting anger would be a complete sociopath.

I must know alot of sociopaths then.

I will take my training and skills over anyones anger anyday. It has not failed me yet.

[AU64 10,122]

A good coaching staff could have harnessed that emotion and directed it at all opponents.

And you know this how? You have some examples of where this has been done...and who those good coaches are?

[TheBlueVue 177]

It's very bad for a team, but other teams have had similar things happen and it actually pulled them together. Something went wrong at Auburn and I think the robbery and the fight that resulted in shootings are just symptoms of a bigger problem on the team, not the cause of the problem,

UConn's QB was murdered during the season 3 years ago.

http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=4574560

Yep, a total of 6 (or 7?) were shot that night. Reason for shooting; somebody danced with the wrong girl.

The problem at Auburn is that it's too close to Montgomery. The problem with Montgomery is that that type of behavior is tolerated there.

This is a ridiculous statement. Murder is not a joking matter and is not tolerated anywhere. To suggest otherwise is simply tasteless or clueless or both

Never said it was a joking matter. I don't mean that the citizens are tolerant of it.

Montgomery is A LOT more violent than you are probably aware, and a ton of stuff that goes on there is not reported on the news.

Imo, for the purpose of catching the murderer, involving the agencies that were asked to get involved was the best thing that they could have done.

I live in Montgomery and know more about that particular topic than you what you may be willing to concede. Like any other city Montgomery has its problems but, if for no other reason, the Montgomery Police Dept's response to information that the killer had been located is an obvious indication of how much they tolerate murder. Your statement had no basis in reality and the fact that you posted it was in extremely poor taste. Murder, my friend, is not tolerated anywhere in the civilized world.

[aubfaninga 16]

I'd say the only person who could defend themselves against a violent attack without exhibiting anger would be a complete sociopath.

I'd say that any person that could use the deaths of young men for the benefit of winning football games could be a complete sociopath!!!

Some have missed the point of my post. I was simply saying that Chiz might have viewed the unfortunate accident in a wider sense than just his coaching career. Whether you agree or not is up to you.

[AUwent 3,747]

A good coaching staff could have harnessed that emotion and directed it at all opponents.

And you know this how? You have some examples of where this has been done...and who those good coaches are?

I'll gladly list.

Nick Saban, 2011. 43 deaths in Tuscaloosa. Team goes 11-1, 7-1. Wins BCS National Championship, 21-0 over LSU. One of the best defenses of all time.

Frank Beamer, 2007. 32 deaths on the Virginia Tech campus. Team goes 10-2, 7-1. Wins ACC Championship, 30-16 over Boston College. Loses Orange Bowl, 24-21 to Kansas.

I know the following record isn't as good, but...

Randy Edsall, 2009. QB stabbed hours after a game. Team goes 4-3 after his death, including winning the PapaJohns.com Bowl, 20-7, over a South Carolina team that was about to break out.

Point is, a coach can be defined by how he has his team respond to tragedy. Does he let it get them down, or does he bring the team closer together?

Oh, and being young is not an excuse. Remember, 2011 was Chizik's free pass. It was the year that he was supposed to DEVELOP players before having us back in the thick of the SEC title hunt this year. Before the '11 season, we were thinking that come December we would be talking about making another run this year. Obviously due to A) the complete lack of discipline shown by this staff (Armed Four, Eric Smith, Dyer, etc.), and stupid decisions like not starting Kiehl the second half of the season along with red-shirting the young talent we had on the OL and letting Greene and Cooper play, that did not happen. We showed no improvement from the Utah State game to the Alabama game, and as a result we spent December saying "we're still a year away" instead.

So yeah, that's my $.02. Like I said, it was a tragic event, but not a legit excuse for this disaster.

[aubfaninga 16]

Gladly.

Nick Saban, 2011. 43 deaths in Tuscaloosa. Team goes 11-1, 7-1. Wins BCS National Championship, 21-0 over LSU. One of the best defenses of all time.

Can you prove that the team would not have went 12-0 had the Tornado not happened?

Frank Beamer, 2007. 32 deaths on the Virginia Tech campus. Team goes 10-2, 7-1. Wins ACC Championship, 30-16 over Boston College. Loses Orange Bowl, 24-21 to Kansas.

Still only examples of opinions above and below

I know the following record isn't as good, but...

Randy Edsall, 2009. QB stabbed hours after a game. Team goes 4-3 after his death, including winning the PapaJohns.com Bowl, 20-7, over a South Carolina team that was about to break out.

Point is, a coach can be defined by how he has his team respond to tragedy. Does he let it get them down, or does he bring the team closer together?

Oh, and being young is not an excuse. Remember, 2011 was Chizik's free pass. It was the year that he was supposed to DEVELOP players and have us back in the thick of the SEC title hunt this year. Before that season, we were thinking that come December we would be talking about making another run in 2012. Obviously due to stupid decisions like not starting Kiehl the second half of the season, along with red-shirting the young talent we had on the OL and letting Greene and Cooper play, that did not happen. We showed no improvement from the Utah State game to the Alabama game, and as a result we spent December talking saying "we're still a year away" instead.

So yeah, that's my $.02. Like I said, it was a tragic event, but not a legit excuse for this disaster.

The deaths are not an excuse for the season. For all I know the deaths could have been the only thing that kept us in close games early in the season. The only thing that I know for sure is that the deaths of 3 people close to the players and the death of Chiz's mother impacted alot of the young men and coaches in some way or another. They have to live with this and not us. The weight we carry on our backs as fans of a team that had only 3 wins does not even come close to the weight that some like Trovon Reed must carry everyday.

The 2012 season is over and we will soon have another coach. The sun will rise again in Auburn!!!

[tiger88 934]

I'd say the only person who could defend themselves against a violent attack without exhibiting anger would be a complete sociopath.

I must know alot of sociopaths then.

I will take my training and skills over anyones anger anyday. It has not failed me yet.

You're in denial. Just because someone can learn to lessen their anger doesn't mean it isn't there. Anyways, based on you refusal to bow to logic in the undeniable argument that chiz was sucking wind and about to get canned, I don't expect you to acknowledge a logical argument here. I said all I have to say, goodbye.

[AUwent 3,747]

Gladly.

Nick Saban, 2011. 43 deaths in Tuscaloosa. Team goes 11-1, 7-1. Wins BCS National Championship, 21-0 over LSU. One of the best defenses of all time.

Can you prove that the team would not have went 12-0 had the Tornado not happened? No, but my point is that they didn't let it have a negative impact on their season. If you watched the Roll Tide/War Eagle documentary, than you'd know that at least one Alabama player lost someone close to him. I'm sure that plenty Alabama players knew victims of that storm. If a bad coach, like Chizik, coached them at that time, it would've been a handicap for them.

Frank Beamer, 2007. 32 deaths on the Virginia Tech campus. Team goes 10-2, 7-1. Wins ACC Championship, 30-16 over Boston College. Loses Orange Bowl, 24-21 to Kansas.

Still only examples of opinions above and below. However, my point remains the same. Again, odds are that quite a few VT players knew the victims of that horror. If a bad coach, like Chizik, coached VT at that time, than the players would've let the inevitable weight on their backs ruin their season.

I know the following record isn't as good, but...

Randy Edsall, 2009. QB stabbed hours after a game. Team goes 4-3 after his death, including winning the PapaJohns.com Bowl, 20-7, over a South Carolina team that was about to break out.

Point is, a coach can be defined by how he has his team respond to tragedy. Does he let it get them down, or does he bring the team closer together?

Oh, and being young is not an excuse. Remember, 2011 was Chizik's free pass. It was the year that he was supposed to DEVELOP players and have us back in the thick of the SEC title hunt this year. Before that season, we were thinking that come December we would be talking about making another run in 2012. Obviously due to stupid decisions like not starting Kiehl the second half of the season, along with red-shirting the young talent we had on the OL and letting Greene and Cooper play, that did not happen. We showed no improvement from the Utah State game to the Alabama game, and as a result we spent December talking saying "we're still a year away" instead.

So yeah, that's my $.02. Like I said, it was a tragic event, but not a legit excuse for this disaster.

The deaths are not an excuse for the season. For all I know the deaths could have been the only thing that kept us in close games early in the season. The only thing that I know for sure is that the deaths of 3 people close to the players and the death of Chiz's mother impacted alot of the young men and coaches in some way or another. They have to live with this and not us. The weight we carry on our backs as fans of a team that had only 3 wins does not even come close to the weight that some like Trovon Reed must carry everyday.

The 2012 season is over and we will soon have another coach. The sun will rise again in Auburn!!!

I do agree with your last line, though. The sun WILL rise again in Auburn!!! WDE!

[aubfaninga 16]

I'd say the only person who could defend themselves against a violent attack without exhibiting anger would be a complete sociopath.

I must know alot of sociopaths then.

I will take my training and skills over anyones anger anyday. It has not failed me yet.

You're in denial. Just because someone can learn to lessen their anger doesn't mean it isn't there. Anyways, based on you refusal to bow to logic in the undeniable argument that chiz was sucking wind and about to get canned, I don't expect you to acknowledge a logical argument here. I said all I have to say, goodbye.

:'( so sad to see you go :'(

I can do nothing but laugh at your reasoning skills. I never once said that Chiz was not going to lose his job. I only stated reasons that I was for him receiving 1 more year. I can't argue the fact that Tubbs is gone but I can still state the reasons that I felt he should not have been pressured to move on.

I think your idea of a "logical argument" is a discussion in which someone has all the same views that you do. Just because you happen to have an idea that resembles the opinions of the majority does not always make you right.

I follow the beliefs of a God like all christians. Does that make me right? Only in my faith... I also beleive that most christians have no spiritual concept of what the bible actually teaches. Does that make me wrong? Not in my faith...

I wish you the best with your future discussions with people that want to have an intelligent, rational, and "logical" debate with you.

[aubfaninga 16]

I do agree with your last line, though. The sun WILL rise again in Auburn!!! WDE!

Still only examples of opinions above and below. However, my point remains the same. Again, odds are that quite a few VT players knew the victims of that horror. If a bad coach, like Chizik, coached VT at that time, than the players would've let the inevitable weight on their backs ruin their season.

This could be very true and points back to the point I was trying to make about how Chiz might have handled the situation. Maybe Chiz stopped being a football coach and became something else that did nothing to help Auburn win football games. Does this make him a bad football coach? My answer would be yes but I would also point out that there is alot more important things for a 19 year old young man to learn than winning a football game. Whatever happened is history. Chiz has reaped what he sawed from Auburn. Maybe Chiz was planting bigger seeds for victory...

[jouie 0]

admins, y'all seem to be in a thread-locking mood today -- this thread, please, lock it down.

[aubfaninga 16]

admins, y'all seem to be in a thread-locking mood today -- this thread, please, lock it down.

They have been in a thread locking and deleting mode since after thanksgiving. Must be the christmas spirit in the air.

[pwauburn 0]

I'd say the only person who could defend themselves against a violent attack without exhibiting anger would be a complete sociopath.

I must know alot of sociopaths then.

I will take my training and skills over anyones anger anyday. It has not failed me yet.

I agree with you in regards to the actual day of competition, but for training and practice anger goes a long way. It's definitely more useful than indifference such as our players displayed this season.