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Is our athletic department "too religious"?


DyeHardAllTheWay

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I'll say this. I was around A LOT of the players for quite a while and never heard ANYONE complain about this. But I'm sure it was just killing them inside.

Well setting aside the question of why they would confide in you, that would be expected regardless of how many of the players felt they were being coerced (going along so as to not make "waves").

Cuckoo.....Cuckoo.....Cuckoo......Cuckoo.....

It's not "Cukoo" to think that kids that age would "just shut up and go along with the crowd" to avoid the inevitable peer pressure and possible consequences of being "different". I've seen that myself, back in the day.

Quote: ""HOW DARE THEY TRY TO MAKE SOCIETY A BETTER PLACE PREACHING MORALITY, GRACE, PEACE, AND HOPE!!!!!!" Some Christians do that, some don't. In any case Christians don't have a monolopy on that sort of thing, plenty of other groups, both non-christian religious and secular groups do the same.

I wasn't referring to the players as cuckoo. And I said nothing about Christians having the corner on the morality market. That's just who this thread is demonizing.

This thread is "demonizing" Christians?

Boy, to be such a majority you sure are quick to cop a persecuted attitude.

Maybe demonizing is kind of harsh, but isn't this thread here because of admin supposedly coercing players and the pushback from a couple of posters here that are "offended"?
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I don't want to get too deep into this thread, but I will throw this out there. Auburn University and it's football program have had a Christian lean since I first visited the campus in 1990... probably long before that. Had that not been the case, there is a good possibility that I would not have gone there and an even bigger chance that I would have never followed football. Is it because I'm some sort of hardcore Bible thumper? No.. not in the least. I don't even attend church, currently, and I don't talk about my faith much at all, unless asked. Why it mattered to me is that I knew, growing up around it, that Christianity, at it's core, is focused on caring about others, family, and morality. That was important to me, especially since every other university I visited seemed to be focused on love of self, sex, drugs, and dog-eat-dog survival. This also rolled over into football, where the majority of fans weren't screaming obscenities at the other team, but were, instead, being polite to visiting fans and cheering for the other team.

So, the long and short of it is, if Auburn were not "religious" they would be short at least one fan/student, and if there is one, there are probably more. I truly believe that the faith base of the leadership at Auburn is one of the main things that separates us from the other schools in the SEC. If it weren't there, I thing the make-up of the student body and alumni would be different and we'd probably just be much more like the school on the west side of the state.

I think something we need to do all over the world is remind ourselves that, if we don't believe in something, it doesn't mean we have to be against it. As long as no one is hurting anyone else (no, offending isn't hurting... nor is "hurting their feelings), then who cares if we aren't all in agreement. Just participate in what you want and don't participate in the other things... and love the fact that Auburn is a place that cares about family and doing the right thing the right way.

Auburn, the "village," as well

Forgive the drifty reminiscence

Getting married on 2 January was problematic (though football certainly entertained the rehearsal dinner the day before) .

Not only the campus was closed for quarter-break but, back then, the city (almost literally) rolled up the sidewalks and boarded windows as well. The only organist available with permission to play at University Chapel refused to play secular music. My (now) wife had her heart set on The Rose (Bette Midler. Conway Twitty, Amanda McBroom?). The organist was (thankfully, though not all that surprisingly) able to find a religious interpretation and obliged.

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Maybe demonizing is kind of harsh, but isn't this thread here because of admin supposedly coercing players and the pushback from a couple of posters here that are "offended"?

Um, no. Some posters have talked about players being coerced. I've talked about the possibility -- but I've made no accusation -- that religion might relate to hiring. But more has been about being clear what your job is and where you work.

Here's my first reply. "I'm serious about my Christian faith, but I don't believe 'Christian' talk correlates much with good character. And in a state university, defining a program in those terms is way out of line. I could do with less cheesiness.

On the other hand, I also believe people should have a right to be open about their faith."

I think that's fairly representative of one side of the discussion. How the program presents itself, and cheesiness.

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I don't have a problem it. Most of our players are religious young men and were raised in strong religious families. I think this strong character trait is what's kept us clean for the last 20 years. We have been accused of all kinds of things and each time come out clean. I also don't have a problem with the Family issue also. I don't want us to be a heartless machine like the Turds. They toss out players each year and replace them with new ones. Auburn doesn't do that, if you lose your spot on the team you've done something pretty serious. Auburn is somewhere special, and should be treated that way. We are attacked constantly,from every angle and yet we hold our heads high.

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Maybe demonizing is kind of harsh, but isn't this thread here because of admin supposedly coercing players and the pushback from a couple of posters here that are "offended"?

Um, no. Some posters have talked about players being coerced. I've talked about the possibility -- but I've made no accusation -- that religion might relate to hiring. But more has been about being clear what your job is and where you work.

Here's my first reply. "I'm serious about my Christian faith, but I don't believe 'Christian' talk correlates much with good character. And in a state university, defining a program in those terms is way out of line. I could do with less cheesiness.

On the other hand, I also believe people should have a right to be open about their faith."

I think that's fairly representative of one side of the discussion. How the program presents itself, and cheesiness.

I am mistaken. I apologize.
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Maybe demonizing is kind of harsh, but isn't this thread here because of admin supposedly coercing players and the pushback from a couple of posters here that are "offended"?

Um, no. Some posters have talked about players being coerced. I've talked about the possibility -- but I've made no accusation -- that religion might relate to hiring. But more has been about being clear what your job is and where you work.

Here's my first reply. "I'm serious about my Christian faith, but I don't believe 'Christian' talk correlates much with good character. And in a state university, defining a program in those terms is way out of line. I could do with less cheesiness.

On the other hand, I also believe people should have a right to be open about their faith."

I think that's fairly representative of one side of the discussion. How the program presents itself, and cheesiness.

I am mistaken. I apologize.

Thanks, and no worries.

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I'll say this. I was around A LOT of the players for quite a while and never heard ANYONE complain about this. But I'm sure it was just killing them inside.

Well setting aside the question of why they would confide in you, that would be expected regardless of how many of the players felt they were being coerced (going along so as to not make "waves").

Cuckoo.....Cuckoo.....Cuckoo......Cuckoo.....

It's not "Cukoo" to think that kids that age would "just shut up and go along with the crowd" to avoid the inevitable peer pressure and possible consequences of being "different". I've seen that myself, back in the day.

Quote: ""HOW DARE THEY TRY TO MAKE SOCIETY A BETTER PLACE PREACHING MORALITY, GRACE, PEACE, AND HOPE!!!!!!" Some Christians do that, some don't. In any case Christians don't have a monolopy on that sort of thing, plenty of other groups, both non-christian religious and secular groups do the same.

I wasn't referring to the players as cuckoo. And I said nothing about Christians having the corner on the morality market. That's just who this thread is demonizing.

This thread is "demonizing" Christians?

Boy, to be such a majority you sure are quick to cop a persecuted attitude.

Maybe demonizing is kind of harsh, but isn't this thread here because of admin supposedly coercing players and the pushback from a couple of posters here that are "offended"?

No, I would say it is here because of the public way administrators and coaches have expressed their religious beliefs in the past (as in the above samples). Given such public attitudes it is not unreasonable to suspect religion plays a prominent role in team-related activities, possibly influencing hiring decisions or scholarship offers.

And unless one assumes everyone is coming from the exact same "place" religiously (clearly an unreasonable assumption) there is a strong possibility of religion used in a coercive role in team dynamics in the form of organized and/or directed worship.

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" there is a strong possibility of religion used in a coercive role in team dynamics " Boy that's a strong statement and I sure would love to see any evidence at all to support something that sounds like it came from Selena Roberts or some of her ilk. What's unreasonable to me is that a HS recruit could meet with our coaches, have one or more coaches visit with his family, visit the AU campus, read the blogs and talk to future team mates.....and when he arrived on campus to start school suddenly think...."wow....I never realized that these guys are Christians.....someone should have told me". I'm not saying that something like this might not influence hiring or scholarship acceptance but every school has it's style/personality that is often formed by the history of the place and nature of the overall student body. JMO but the personality of the Athletic Department at AU is probably not that different from the student body in general or the alumni base.

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Pragmatically,

Whatever the underlying motivations,

I prefer the way we treated Shon Coleman to the way

others treated Justin Taylor

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" there is a strong possibility of religion used in a coercive role in team dynamics " Boy that's a strong statement and I sure would love to see any evidence at all to support something that sounds like it came from Selena Roberts or some of her ilk. What's unreasonable to me is that a HS recruit could meet with our coaches, have one or more coaches visit with his family, visit the AU campus, read the blogs and talk to future team mates.....and when he arrived on campus to start school suddenly think...."wow....I never realized that these guys are Christians.....someone should have told me". I'm not saying that something like this might not influence hiring or scholarship acceptance but every school has it's style/personality that is often formed by the history of the place and nature of the overall student body. JMO but the personality of the Athletic Department at AU is probably not that different from the student body in general or the alumni base.

You won't get an ounce of evidence. I've been lobbying the OP since he/she started this thread to provide even a tiny bit of evidence that shows that the current coaching staff are pushing God and religion on the current players on this team. I've gotten nothing/nada/zilch in the way of proof that any coach currently involved with Auburn athletics has a religious agenda let alone them trying to coerce the team dynamics with God.

Also, you make an excellant point about recruiting these high school prospects. If Christianity and religion in general played too big a role in the AU athletic department, then the recruits and their parents/guardians would most definitely feel the pressure after they've visited campus numerous times. They'd know what AU was all about after hanging out with some of the players on their visits, or when the coaching staff sat in momma's living room trying to "sell" Auburn to them.

Different programs sell their product differenct ways. Some are strictly professional, to the point, and almost cold and humorless in their sales pitch. Some are warm, friendly, and fun loving when they sell their program. Bottom line is every team in the SEC recruits from the same pool of players. And these players have seen every sales pitch there is by the time they get ready to sign on the dotted line. No one is pulling the wool over any of these recruits eyes.

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One of my favorite questions. It's Sunday night, it's raining, and your car breaks down. Would you prefer it happen outside a bar or a church? ^-^

And before someone thinks I'm attacking Christianity, I'm not. It's just that everyone answers the question the same way.

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One of my favorite questions. It's Sunday night, it's raining, and your car breaks down. Would you prefer it happen outside a bar or a church? ^-^

And before someone thinks I'm attacking Christianity, I'm not. It's just that everyone answers the question the same way.

To be honest, whichever is next door to something that's open, with people in it.

I'd appreciate both local contacts for help with the car and a drink.

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" there is a strong possibility of religion used in a coercive role in team dynamics " Boy that's a strong statement and I sure would love to see any evidence at all to support something that sounds like it came from Selena Roberts or some of her ilk. What's unreasonable to me is that a HS recruit could meet with our coaches, have one or more coaches visit with his family, visit the AU campus, read the blogs and talk to future team mates.....and when he arrived on campus to start school suddenly think...."wow....I never realized that these guys are Christians.....someone should have told me". I'm not saying that something like this might not influence hiring or scholarship acceptance but every school has it's style/personality that is often formed by the history of the place and nature of the overall student body. JMO but the personality of the Athletic Department at AU is probably not that different from the student body in general or the alumni base.

Well, since you quoted me I feel obligated to respond. Nothing you said refutes my statement.

I never claimed it as fact, and therefore don't need any evidence. As I said earlier, my statements reflect principle and possibilities (or if you prefer, the hypothetical). Last time I checked, discussing the hypothetical was clearly within the boundaries of the forum.

And we are not discussing anyone's "personalities" ( presumably, "religious beliefs") but how those religious beliefs are manifested in their jobs.

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