George Zimmerman Trial

[homersapien 11,352]

GZ has stated he did not leave his vehicle to follow TM, but to get a look at an address (that he was asked for from dispatch) to relay to police.

That's where his story breaks down though. If you see the maps that show where his truck was parked when police arrived, he was near the corner of a street. He didn't have that far to walk to find a street sign. And he says he was walking back to his truck when Martin "jumped" him. Yet somehow, they ended up over a football field in length and around a row of townhouses away from that area when GZ shot him. That just doesn't wash to me.

This is the police video taken in a walk through of what happened according to Zimmerman. I don't find anything unusual about it at all. The "corner" you are talking about is not an actual corner where two streets meet, but rather a sharp curve. Therefore, there is no street sign present.

At this time, GZ actually tells the dispatch that the suspect has disappeared. The dispatch asks if he still wants the police to come and he says, "yes." The dispatch asks again for an address for the police to go to and GZ tells them he will meet them at the clubhouse at the beginning of the complex (thinking TM had left the scene). GZ was on his way back to his truck when he was confronted by TM.

Considering both sides, TM didn't try to avoid GZ. The direction that GZ says TM headed while he was parked at that curve is in the direction of his residence. He had a clear path leading to the residence where he was staying, but did not go. He chose to stay. In fact, he actually waited in a dark area for GZ to pass by on his way back to his truck and approached GZ from behind.

Homer posted transcripts of Zimmerman saying his firearm was visible and that he was sure TM saw it. After watching this video, you will see that this was after TM had punched GZ and had him on the ground. So, his post was misleading. This seems far more logical to me. Nobody in their right mind is going to attack someone who they know has a firearm on their hip.

What I take most from this video is that TM actually came back towards GZ, or followed him as he was going back to his truck. It kinda moots the whole "GZ was stalking TM" talk. It seems the incident was over, then TM decided to follow GZ and attack him.

I know this is GZ's account of the night, but if GZ got out of his vehicle to confront TM and TM was aware of him the entire time, the neighbors would have heard the confrontation earlier than they did. It seems to me GZ was startled from behind and it was his voice calling for help.

Worth noting: TM's father initially stated that the calls for help were not his son's voice. He changed his story after TM's mother said it was.

See there's the rub. We don't get to hear TM's account. GZ's account is clearly self-serving. That's hardly a surprise, is it? Yet you provide it as if that is the way it happened, period.

GZ became guilty when he got out of his car to go and confront TM while wearing a pistol. This wasn't his home, or even his yard. And he is not a LEO.

Another one of the dumbest things ever posted to this site... Congrats!

Considering you responded twice, you really ought to delete this one.

(It just makes you look petty. )

[homersapien 11,352]

What "hysteria" ginned up by the media?

Trying to make a tragic local event into one entirely based on race, on a national scale.

NBC , editing GZ's call to 911, and making it appear if he was telling the dispatch that TM was " up to no good... he's black ", or the inventive use of the term ' White-Hispanic', when it became known that 'ZIMMERMAN' wasn't some lily white frat boy, or red neck Bubba, out to get him a negro, just to break up the boredom of a slow night.

C'mon... don't be THAT guy, who pretends he doesn't know what the MSM is doing here.

I am not even pretending it didn't happen. That's what the media - all media - does!

I just don't see it as directly relevant. The facts are the facts. We all know that Zimmerman got out of his car when there was no need or reason to. His motivation came from who-know's-where? Certainly not fear.

[homersapien 11,352]

Trayvon acted suspiciously, which got the attention of the neighborhood watch guy, who then took actions which made HIM look suspicious to Trayvon. Zimmerman could have done some things to help defuse the situation, but Trayvon decided to get all MMA tough guy, because he felt he was being 'dissed', or some such crap, and it got him killed.

Tragic, but not criminal,imo.

You know this how? Wow..talk about being bias. Ever thought TM was acting suspicious b/c someone was following him? Like your point says GZ could've defused the situation but instead he pulls a gun. That's not self defense.

An unknown kid, in a hoodie, who didn't live there, was walking close to the homes, in an area which had been burglarized recently. To anyone, that'd be curious,at the very least.

But it absolutely was self defense, after TM attacked him, and started whaling on him, MMA style.

Is it really self defense to pick a fight with a stranger while packing heat?

[AURaptor 1,121]

What "hysteria" ginned up by the media?

Trying to make a tragic local event into one entirely based on race, on a national scale.

NBC , editing GZ's call to 911, and making it appear if he was telling the dispatch that TM was " up to no good... he's black ", or the inventive use of the term ' White-Hispanic', when it became known that 'ZIMMERMAN' wasn't some lily white frat boy, or red neck Bubba, out to get him a negro, just to break up the boredom of a slow night.

C'mon... don't be THAT guy, who pretends he doesn't know what the MSM is doing here.

I am not even pretending it didn't happen. That's what the media - all media - does! ( Actually, that's exactly what you said, right before... when you asked WHAT hysteria was 'ginned' up, by the media. I just told you )

I just don't see it as directly relevant. The facts are the facts. We all know that Zimmerman got out of his car when there was no need or reason to. His motivation came from who-know's-where? Certainly not fear.

He was looking to see where TM had gone off to, so he could give an accurate location to the dispatch.

[AURaptor 1,121]

Is it really self defense to pick a fight with a stranger while packing heat?

I don't understand the question. Trayvon " picked the fight " , not GZ.

[homersapien 11,352]

Is it really self defense to pick a fight with a stranger while packing heat?

I don't understand the question. Trayvon " picked the fight " , not GZ.

GZ picked the fight when he got out of his car with his gun. There was no legitimate need or reason for him to do so.

How Trayvon reacted to being accosted by a stranger, at night, in the rain, is not really relevant in my mind.

Understand now?

[homersapien 11,352]

What "hysteria" ginned up by the media?

Trying to make a tragic local event into one entirely based on race, on a national scale.

NBC , editing GZ's call to 911, and making it appear if he was telling the dispatch that TM was " up to no good... he's black ", or the inventive use of the term ' White-Hispanic', when it became known that 'ZIMMERMAN' wasn't some lily white frat boy, or red neck Bubba, out to get him a negro, just to break up the boredom of a slow night.

C'mon... don't be THAT guy, who pretends he doesn't know what the MSM is doing here.

I am not even pretending it didn't happen. That's what the media - all media - does! ( Actually, that's exactly what you said, right before... when you asked WHAT hysteria was 'ginned' up, by the media. I just told you )

I just don't see it as directly relevant. The facts are the facts. We all know that Zimmerman got out of his car when there was no need or reason to. His motivation came from who-know's-where? Certainly not fear.

He was looking to see where TM had gone off to, so he could give an accurate location to the dispatch.

Boy you really, really WANT it, don't you?

[AURaptor 1,121]

Is it really self defense to pick a fight with a stranger while packing heat?

I don't understand the question. Trayvon " picked the fight " , not GZ.

GZ picked the fight when he got out of his car with his gun. There was no legitimate need or reason for him to do so.

How Trayvon reacted to being accosted by a stranger, at night, in the rain, is not really relevant in my mind.

Understand now?

That's your opinion, based on nothing. Getting out of a car while carrying a legally licensed firearm doesn't = " looking for a fight " .

Trayvon wasn't 'accosted' by anyone. HE initiated the contact, both verbally and physically.

Do YOU understand ?

[homersapien 11,352]

Is it really self defense to pick a fight with a stranger while packing heat?

I don't understand the question. Trayvon " picked the fight " , not GZ.

GZ picked the fight when he got out of his car with his gun. There was no legitimate need or reason for him to do so.

How Trayvon reacted to being accosted by a stranger, at night, in the rain, is not really relevant in my mind.

Understand now?

That's your opinion, based on nothing. 1) Getting out of a car while carrying a legally licensed firearm doesn't = " looking for a fight " .

Trayvon wasn't 'accosted' by anyone. 2) HE initiated the contact, both verbally and physically.

Do YOU understand ?

1) It most certainly did in this particular situation. Everything could have been avoided if only he had stayed in his car minding his own business. Anyone can appreciate that.

2) First, you don't know that. Secondly, it doesn't matter. Any contact at all, from either party, happened only as a result of Zimmerman getting out of his car to impose himself on the scene.

[AURaptor 1,121]

Yes. Mind his own business, and not try to protect his neighborhood form known criminals. Right.

I know all the evidences points to TM starting the violence, and GZ ending it. And you're wrong. Getting out of your car in your own neighborhood isn't a free ticket for some 17 y.o. thug wanna-be to cheap shot a guy and then tell him this is the night he's gonna die.

TM should have just run home, and he'd still be alive.

[alexava 6,973]

all this is why I cant convict. we know some things some we are not sure. Let's say trayvon DID sneak up and initiate the fight with GZ. GZ didn't have the chance to explain his concerns. He was trying to take GZ's gun. If these hypotheticals are true then is this self defense? We don't know one way or the other. I just haven't seen enough trash on GZ( and the media has tried their best) to believe he wanted to kill anyone. He made mistakes and is paying for it already, but murder 2 is not feasible. Like 83 posted manslaughter is more suited for a worst case scenario. My concern is the "what if he is telling the truth"? is that still manslaughter.

[AURaptor 1,121]

Certain folks don't want to hear the possibility that GZ may be telling the truth. It goes against their agenda of 'pay back' .

[AUDub 11,131]

Certain folks don't want to hear the possibility that GZ may be telling the truth. It goes against their agenda of 'pay back' .

It goes both ways. Certain folks are all too willing to accept his version of events without question. I'm glad it's gone to trial, whatever the outcome.

[AURaptor 1,121]

Certain folks don't want to hear the possibility that GZ may be telling the truth. It goes against their agenda of 'pay back' .

It goes both ways. Certain folks are all too willing to accept his version of events without question. I'm glad it's gone to trial, whatever the outcome.

Hey, I had an image of GZ at first, which was painted by the MSM, that had me fully convinced he was the guy we were told. Then this 'white Hispanic' stuff came out, and the edited audio of his 9-1-1 call, and that changed my mind.

[AUDub 11,131]

Certain folks don't want to hear the possibility that GZ may be telling the truth. It goes against their agenda of 'pay back' .

It goes both ways. Certain folks are all too willing to accept his version of events without question. I'm glad it's gone to trial, whatever the outcome.

Hey, I had an image of GZ at first, which was painted by the MSM, that had me fully convinced he was the guy we were told. Then this 'white Hispanic' stuff came out, and the edited audio of his 9-1-1 call, and that changed my mind.

I would like to think I can remain skeptical of the motivations of all involved and form my own conclusions as we learn more.

[TitanTiger 20,469]

Is it really self defense to pick a fight with a stranger while packing heat?

I don't understand the question. Trayvon " picked the fight " , not GZ.

You don't know this and no witness backs up such an assertion.

And I disagree with homer that the simple act of getting out of his truck constitutes instigating the fight. But there is nothing other than GZ's word that says TM picked the fight.

[homersapien 11,352]

Is it really self defense to pick a fight with a stranger while packing heat?

I don't understand the question. Trayvon " picked the fight " , not GZ.

You don't know this and no witness backs up such an assertion.

And I disagree with homer that the simple act of getting out of his truck constitutes instigating the fight. But there is nothing other than GZ's word that says TM picked the fight.

Getting out of his truck instigated the confrontation, period. Everyone seems to assume that Trayvon had an obligation to submit to a stranger confronting him for no reason. Maybe he was afraid for his life. (And anyone who has actually been in a fight can understand his aggressive statements, Once the fight starts you are liable to say anything to intimidate your opponent.)

Bottom line, GZ took the initiative to confront TM for no valid or legal reason. If you are carrying a gun you should be obligated to avoid any confrontation if possible. He may get off, but he is guilty as hell.

If he does get off, it's open season on "suspicious" persons.

[alexava 6,973]

We dont know who confronted whom.

[TitanTiger 20,469]

Getting out of his truck instigated the confrontation, period.

You can't assert this either. If Zimmerman got out of his truck to look for the street sign as he said he was doing, he's instigated nothing. There would need to be a subsequent act on his part to instigate the altercation. Or you'd have to assert he's lying about why he got out of the truck. But without one of these two things being true, the mere action of getting out of the vehicle does not prove your contention.

Everyone seems to assume that Trayvon had an obligation to submit to a stranger confronting him for no reason. Maybe he was afraid for his life. (And anyone who has actually been in a fight can understand his aggressive statements, Once the fight starts you are liable to say anything to intimidate your opponent.)

I certainly don't assume that.

Bottom line, GZ took the initiative to confront TM for no valid or legal reason. If you are carrying a gun you should be obligated to avoid any confrontation if possible. He may get off, but he is guilty as hell.

Just as Raptor goes too far in his assumptions, so do you from the opposite angle...based on the actual known facts of the case. We simply don't know how the confrontation occurred and who instigated it.

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

Certain folks don't want to hear the possibility that GZ may be telling the truth. It goes against their agenda of 'pay back' .

It goes both ways. Certain folks are all too willing to accept his version of events without question. I'm glad it's gone to trial, whatever the outcome.

+1

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

Is it really self defense to pick a fight with a stranger while packing heat?

I don't understand the question. Trayvon " picked the fight " , not GZ.

You don't know this and no witness backs up such an assertion.

And I disagree with homer that the simple act of getting out of his truck constitutes instigating the fight. But there is nothing other than GZ's word that says TM picked the fight.

Getting out of his truck instigated the confrontation, period. Everyone seems to assume that Trayvon had an obligation to submit to a stranger confronting him for no reason. Maybe he was afraid for his life. (And anyone who has actually been in a fight can understand his aggressive statements, Once the fight starts you are liable to say anything to intimidate your opponent.)

Bottom line, GZ took the initiative to confront TM for no valid or legal reason. If you are carrying a gun you should be obligated to avoid any confrontation if possible. He may get off, but he is guilty as hell.

If he does get off, it's open season on "suspicious" persons.

+1.

[alexava 6,973]

Getting out of his truck instigated the confrontation, period.

You can't assert this either. If Zimmerman got out of his truck to look for the street sign as he said he was doing, he's instigated nothing. There would need to be a subsequent act on his part to instigate the altercation. Or you'd have to assert he's lying about why he got out of the truck. But without one of these two things being true, the mere action of getting out of the vehicle does not prove your contention.

Everyone seems to assume that Trayvon had an obligation to submit to a stranger confronting him for no reason. Maybe he was afraid for his life. (And anyone who has actually been in a fight can understand his aggressive statements, Once the fight starts you are liable to say anything to intimidate your opponent.)

I certainly don't assume that.

Bottom line, GZ took the initiative to confront TM for no valid or legal reason. If you are carrying a gun you should be obligated to avoid any confrontation if possible. He may get off, but he is guilty as hell.

Just as Raptor goes too far in his assumptions, so do you from the opposite angle...based on the actual known facts of the case. We simply don't know how the confrontation occurred and who instigated it.

i feel this is why there was no arrest initially. The case must be proven "beyond a reasonable doubt".

[AUGradinTX 0]

GZ has stated he did not leave his vehicle to follow TM, but to get a look at an address (that he was asked for from dispatch) to relay to police.

That's where his story breaks down though. If you see the maps that show where his truck was parked when police arrived, he was near the corner of a street. He didn't have that far to walk to find a street sign. And he says he was walking back to his truck when Martin "jumped" him. Yet somehow, they ended up over a football field in length and around a row of townhouses away from that area when GZ shot him. That just doesn't wash to me.

This is the police video taken in a walk through of what happened according to Zimmerman. I don't find anything unusual about it at all. The "corner" you are talking about is not an actual corner where two streets meet, but rather a sharp curve. Therefore, there is no street sign present.

At this time, GZ actually tells the dispatch that the suspect has disappeared. The dispatch asks if he still wants the police to come and he says, "yes." The dispatch asks again for an address for the police to go to and GZ tells them he will meet them at the clubhouse at the beginning of the complex (thinking TM had left the scene). GZ was on his way back to his truck when he was confronted by TM.

Considering both sides, TM didn't try to avoid GZ. The direction that GZ says TM headed while he was parked at that curve is in the direction of his residence. He had a clear path leading to the residence where he was staying, but did not go. He chose to stay. In fact, he actually waited in a dark area for GZ to pass by on his way back to his truck and approached GZ from behind.

Homer posted transcripts of Zimmerman saying his firearm was visible and that he was sure TM saw it. After watching this video, you will see that this was after TM had punched GZ and had him on the ground. So, his post was misleading. This seems far more logical to me. Nobody in their right mind is going to attack someone who they know has a firearm on their hip.

What I take most from this video is that TM actually came back towards GZ, or followed him as he was going back to his truck. It kinda moots the whole "GZ was stalking TM" talk. It seems the incident was over, then TM decided to follow GZ and attack him.

I know this is GZ's account of the night, but if GZ got out of his vehicle to confront TM and TM was aware of him the entire time, the neighbors would have heard the confrontation earlier than they did. It seems to me GZ was startled from behind and it was his voice calling for help.

Worth noting: TM's father initially stated that the calls for help were not his son's voice. He changed his story after TM's mother said it was.

See there's the rub. We don't get to hear TM's account. GZ's account is clearly self-serving. That's hardly a surprise, is it? Yet you provide it as if that is the way it happened, period.

GZ became guilty when he got out of his car to go and confront TM while wearing a pistol. This wasn't his home, or even his yard. And he is not a LEO.

I'm going to go out on a limb (hardly) and say you know jack squat about this case. I, on the other hand, have been watching the trial live, have done research, have seen the maps, have seen the videos, have considered both arguments regarding this case. What have you done? Don't answer that. There's no need to. You're notorious for spewing uninformed nonsense. So, although you are entitled to your opinion, your opinion carries zero weight.

If you knew half of what is actually going on in this case, you would start to think that maybe GZ is telling the truth. And furthermore, getting out of your vehicle doesn't make you guilty of anything. His reason for leaving his vehicle seems very logical to me. What doesn't is why the altercation happened within feet of his vehicle while he was returning to it.

He was on the phone with the dispatcher. He told the dispatcher what he was doing. He was returning to his vehicle when he was confronted by TM. If the dispatcher corroborates this, he will walk without question.

When it comes down to it, gun or no gun, whoever provoked the physical altercation is at fault. I have a hard time believing GZ is making up a story that could be shot down so easily by the dispatcher he was on the phone with. Then again, maybe he is just a complete moron. We'll find out soon enough.

A civilian wearing a gun for self-defense should have an obligation to avoid potential confrontation, period. Once he got out of his car, in this particular situation, he violated that obligation. If TM had tried to batter his way into his car (for example), I might have a different position on this.

Now, it may turn out that the jury in considering Florida's "stand your ground law" may disagree with me and let him walk, but that has nothing to do with where the guilt lies.

Now, what exactly is the specific problem you have with my opinion? If it's really because I haven't done as much "homework" as you, please explain to me exactly "jack squat" I am missing?

P.S.:

Am I really known for "spewing uninformed nonsense"?

This is a great post. He's guilty because he got out of his vehicle. Makes sense to me. Charge up the electric chair.

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

At this point i don't see GZ being convicted on Murder 2. The prosecution is not doing a good job of pointing out key inconsistences in GZ's story and not asking obvious key questions that contradict his story. I think it will be manslaughter.

[TitanTiger 20,469]

At this point i don't see GZ being convicted on Murder 2. The prosecution is not doing a good job of pointing out key inconsistences in GZ's story and not asking obvious key questions that contradict his story. I think it will be manslaughter.

I think given how the trial is going, getting a manslaughter conviction is a stretch.