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Coach Dye weighs in on the HUNH whiners


RunInRed

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Saban just hates the fact he can not stop it. He believes that everything in football should be catered to him, and his beliefs. He is a spoiled coach JUST like the fans of his program.

Saban can stop it. It just puts him out of his comfort zone IMO. AtM barely beat him with a heisman qb. We barely beat him with a heisman qb. I think it just throws off his defensive play calling a bit and makes him work harder and he doesn't like it.

Yeah, it flusters him and makes him appear less in control and puts more in the hands of his talent on the field than the play calling he is doing. That's what kills him, the lack of control. He can absolutely stop it.

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Saban just hates the fact he can not stop it. He believes that everything in football should be catered to him, and his beliefs. He is a spoiled coach JUST like the fans of his program.

Saban can stop it. It just puts him out of his comfort zone IMO. AtM barely beat him with a heisman qb. We barely beat him with a heisman qb. I think it just throws off his defensive play calling a bit and makes him work harder and he doesn't like it.

Keep in mind that NS had superior talent all across the line against both AU and TAMU and still lost to them. To be honest about it NS will probably always have superior talent on his defensive (compared to opposing OLs) and if he can reduce the game to mano on mano he will almost always win that kind of game. HUNH upsets that condition ....so he would like to get back to the style of play where all it takes for him to win is have superior manpower.

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I may be a bit old school... but I do think the defense should have enough time to sub. I've never been a huge fan of the HUNH offense... just not what I grew up watching and really not what I want to watch now. It's just my opinion, which doesn't really matter or count for anything so it doesn't really matter what I want or think...

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So the only reason this is considered a safety concern is that tired defensive players could get hurt, is that right? So what is the difference between them being tired during the game and being tired at practice? During Bielema's press conference at SEC media days he spoke about how hard and tough his practices were. He talked about all the hat on hat middle drills they did and how gassed the players were. What is the difference in terms of player safety? This is a slippery slope. If a coach wants to talk about player safety when players are tired then they need to be ready for some interference at practice for safety concerns.

Yeah, I thought that was pretty funny too. In my experience, practices were far more fatiguing - and brutal - than any game I ever played it.

But then, that was when concussions were simply laughed off as "getting your bell rung". Heck, we were dehydrated the whole time (and the rest of the day for that matter). Our water intake during summer two-a-days was restricted to a few oz. for Chrissakes. It was totally insane.

When I played HS football you got water BEFORE and AFTER practice. Complain or ask and you got to run laps. :dunno:
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So the only reason this is considered a safety concern is that tired defensive players could get hurt, is that right? So what is the difference between them being tired during the game and being tired at practice? During Bielema's press conference at SEC media days he spoke about how hard and tough his practices were. He talked about all the hat on hat middle drills they did and how gassed the players were. What is the difference in terms of player safety? This is a slippery slope. If a coach wants to talk about player safety when players are tired then they need to be ready for some interference at practice for safety concerns.

Yeah, I thought that was pretty funny too. In my experience, practices were far more fatiguing - and brutal - than any game I ever played it.

But then, that was when concussions were simply laughed off as "getting your bell rung". Heck, we were dehydrated the whole time (and the rest of the day for that matter). Our water intake during summer two-a-days was restricted to a few oz. for Chrissakes. It was totally insane.

When I played HS football you got water BEFORE and AFTER practice. Complain or ask and you got to run laps. :dunno:

We had maybe one or two waterbreaks with those tiny little dixie cups. I used to get so dehydrated I would pee blood after practice. I'd go home, drink, throw up and repeat. It's almost impossible to re-hydrate quickly by drinking, Your stomach can't absorb it fast enough. All night I would wake up suddenly with severe leg cramps from dehydration.

Restricting fluid intake was thought to be a training strategy. :slapfh: What a joke. You can't even run or cut anywhere near a normal speed when you are that dehydrated. And don't even get me started on playing with injuries.

While there were aspects of football I really appreciated (like the hitting), in hindsight, I would never do it again (at least the way we did it then).

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It is laughable now that coaches thought water was a sign of weakness. Everybody over 40 that played football is lucky to be alive. As long as you dont have to take a piss break you can't drink too much.

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It is laughable now that coaches thought water was a sign of weakness. Everybody over 40 that played football is lucky to be alive. As long as you dont have to take a piss break you can't drink too much.

Yeah. You'll never hear me brag about how tougher it was back in the "good ole days". It was tougher, but mainly because we were complete idiots regarding sports physiology.

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I remember, barely, getting knocked out and puking my guts out but refusing to leave the field and coaches allowing me to stay on the field to finish games. I probably had 14 or more concussions during my playing years, with 7 of those coming in college. I now live in fear that those will come back to haunt me in years to come. Player's safety should be paramount in everyone's thoughts. The new "targeting" rule is much too vague and leads much to interpretation. I agree with a committee to decide if a suspension is warranted after a questionable hit.

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Saban just hates the fact he can not stop it. He believes that everything in football should be catered to him, and his beliefs. He is a spoiled coach JUST like the fans of his program.

Saban can stop it. It just puts him out of his comfort zone IMO. AtM barely beat him with a heisman qb. We barely beat him with a heisman qb. I think it just throws off his defensive play calling a bit and makes him work harder and he doesn't like it.

Yeah, it flusters him and makes him appear less in control and puts more in the hands of his talent on the field than the play calling he is doing. That's what kills him, the lack of control. He can absolutely stop it.

He and Kirby will adapt and adjust their defensive coaching to slow down the hunh/fastpaced offense. They had to do it last season against OleMiss and they were successful once they made adjustments later in the game. They had to do it vs aTm and they were successful once they made adjustments later in the game -aTm happened to bring a good defense to t'town and that's what ultimately beat uat with the interception near the end-zone at the end of the game.

As stated previously in this thread, the fast-paced/2 minute drill type offense gets Saban out of his OCD comfort zone. The way to neutralize the hunh-fast pace is to field a pro-style/ground 'n pound/drain the clock offense of your own accompanied by a disciplined/stingy defense. UAT is known to have offensive drives that run off 7-8 minutes of the clock - they like the long, drawn out drives that keeps the opponents offense sitting on the bench and keeps his defense fresh and rested. UAT will have to change their defensive play calls and the speed with which they get a signal called in - because they will face 3-4 HUNH-fastpaced O's this year.

Historically the elite coaches adapt and adjust, that's how they become "elite" head coaches.

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but I do think the defense should have enough time to sub.

Probably think we shouldn't keep score and everyone should get a trophy, too. :poke:

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You have to give Coach Dye an "atta boy" on this one. He still has a sharp eye on the game. It would have been a hoot if he could have spoken during the media days dog and pony show. I hope we plaster arky with over 600 yards of offense with a 45-3 win.

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I just hope we get some SEC wins....JMO but we have too far to go to start worrying about winning the statistics battle with any BCS level team. Perhaps that's because I'm old and adopted AU in the day when we won five games one season and scored 10 or fewer points in each game....and we were damned happy with the outcomes.

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but I do think the defense should have enough time to sub.

Probably think we shouldn't keep score and everyone should get a trophy, too. :poke:

Has nothing to do with Fairness... It's just what I like to see. I like to see defensive struggles more than offensive side shows. Not saying one is right and one is wrong, just voicing an opinion that, to me... I'd rather see teams play defense than each team go down the field in 2 minutes and score a TD. What I'd like to see is that if he clock is stopped for incomplete pass or out of bounds... that the denfense is given time to make a substitution. If the clock is still live, then let 'em play as fast as they can go.

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It is laughable now that coaches thought water was a sign of weakness. Everybody over 40 that played football is lucky to be alive. As long as you dont have to take a piss break you can't drink too much.

And there was an ample supply of salt tablets that we gobbled up!

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It is laughable now that coaches thought water was a sign of weakness. Everybody over 40 that played football is lucky to be alive. As long as you dont have to take a piss break you can't drink too much.

And there was an ample supply of salt tablets that we gobbled up!

i forgot about those. For some reason my 8th grade year was the last time i saw those, but varsity was eating them.
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All this whining about defensive substitution is nonsensical, and should be pointed out as such.

In a HUNH, the offense is giving up its own right to substitute. In almost every sport, the offense controls the pace of the game (baseball is an obvious exception).

Compare the slow-paced, ball control offense:

1st and 10: 21 personnel - Defense in Base Package

2nd and 10: Sub to 3 WR set (11 personnel) - Defense subs to Nickel Package

3rd and long: Sub to 4 WR set (10 personnel)- Defense subs to Dime Package

2nd and short: Sub to 2 TE set (22 personnel) - Defense subs to 8-man front Package

3rd and short:Sub to 3 TE set (23 personnel) - Defense subs to Goal-Line Package

Now realize in a HUNH, you run those 2nd and 3rd down plays out of the same personnel group as your 1st and 10 group. So from a head to head matchup perspective, nothing changes.

As for the defense being gassed, The offense isn't getting a break either. The RBs and WRs are constantly running. If the HUNH produces a pass play that picks up 15 yards, the OL is sprinting 20 yards, lining up, and running another play.

As for injury potential due to fatigue, that is just as much of a factor for the offense.

HUNH offenses are not new. Chan Gailey's Troy State Trojans ran a no-huddle Wishbone in the early 1980s. Sam Wyche's Cincinnati Bengals ran a no-huddle in the late 1980s. There have been variations of huddles right at the line of scrimmage with the WRs already out in position to prevent defensive substitution.

Bielema's and Saban's desire to substitute on defense has little to nothing to do with fatigue, and everything to do with optimizing the defensive personnel for down and distance--period.

This pro-style, analytical, optimized, substitute on every down, multiple defense is just a trend, designed to counter the multiple set, pro-style offense. But that offensive style has been fading out of college football for a decade.

There have been many defensive trends to counter multiple offenses without substitution. The origins of the 3-4 defense in the NFL was to provide flexibility while limiting the need to substitute. The evolution of many base 3-4 defenses to include a dedicated pass rushing Jack LB was developed to reduce the need to substitute dedicated pass rushers. The Tampa-2 was designed to counter ball control passing schemes without substituting in a Nickel Back. Today's base 5 DB schemes like CEJ's are designed to reduce the need to substitute against spread offenses.

Bielema's and Saban's argument's are a red herring. HUNH offenses are not new, they are 30 years old. Defenses have been forced to adapt over time to minimize the need to substitute, and they will again. The offense gets to control the pace of the game--that is football. Like the Veer, the Wishbone, and the West Coast offenses, HUNH offenses will eventually be effectively countered on defense and fade away.

I do agree with those who suggest Saban's complaints are rooted in an OCD need for control. The entire "Process" is completely data driven, so Saban not being able to manage every second of a game no doubt drives him nuts. He is the modern day college version of Tom Landry.

My advise to Bielema and Saban: Shut up and coach.

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