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Michael Sams coming out party


JMassie11

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religion aside, this is a calculated, or forced move due to the fact that he made the announcement to his team at the start of the year. he said himself, that he would rather be the one to tell his story than for it to come from someone else. I doubt he wanted to do it, but either in his mind or the minds of his management, he needed to do it to ease the backlash. think about LB from ND last year, and the made up girlfriend. jmho

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Sleeping with a person of the same sex is behavior that is not productive for humankind. Other than fulfilling ones desires of lust why should homosexuality be forced upon us that don't believe in it? If we as Christians, followers of Christ allow our beliefs to be stepped on and whats next? Should a murderer be axxeptable? What about a thief? Child molester? Any other moral sin? While I do love my fellow man because I believe God creates everyone, I completely DETEST THE SIN described in the Holy Bible. Call me whatever you want but I stand for what I believe and KNOW is true!

There is a big difference between a sin against God and a crime against your fellow man. All those other sins you mentioned (murder, theft, and molestation) are crimes against someone else on this earth. We have to police ourselves against crimes that can harm our fellow man like those. We should not be making laws or condemning someone for the personal tastes or desires. If there is an afterlife let God sort all those other sins out then.

As for homosexuality no one is forcing that on you. Humankind could use a little less productivity considering how overcrowded some countries and cities are.

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Its a funny thing when something happens in sports that makes us reflect on society in general. As far are Sams coming out, all I got to say is that it was only a matter of time before it happened and he won't be the last. Now that he has come out it will be a little less of a big deal with the next one and overtime it won;t be news at all and that will be a good day! I am surprised that it is a rookie is the first to do it. I mean that took some serious guts right there. Dude is taking a major financial risk by coming out this close to the draft just to stand up and this is who I am and I am not going to hide it. I don't care what kind of prejudice you harbor, if you can't recognize the bravery it takes to stand up in a crowded room and say I am different then you've never been in a life situation where you were the one who was different. To that I say people need to get out of their comfort zones a little bit!!

As for the religious aspect of this....I am a Christian and I do not understand how a man can be attracted to another man. But judging by what I have read of this Jesus guy I imagine if he was here today and confronted by a gay guy he would probably hug him around the neck, tell him he loves him, and then he would pray for that guy. I'm not so sure he would take this condemning stance that most Christians today do. IMO God gave every man the right to choose right from wrong, so it always amazes me when I see Christians trying to take away mans God given right. Whether that be trying to make abortion illegal or ban gay marriage or what have you. You councel your brother, you love your brother, and you pray for your brother. But you do not condemn your brother as that right is reserved for the creator of your brother.

Thank you for being rational. Best post I've seen in this thread by a country mile.

Jesus hung out with prostitutes, lepers, and many others deemed "unfit for society" during His time, the same description I'd dare say many people in this thread look at towards homosexuality today. Let's follow His lead about compassion and understand that God gave us free will and at the end of the day, it's not our place to make judgements. As long as Sam or any other person isn't infringing on our rights, then it's really none of our business.

Now can we please talk about football again?

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I think Sams did this just because it was becoming well known in football circles, so in a way he was forced out of the closet. He made an announcement before some reporter asked him the question. He still has the locker room to deal with. Fortunately for Sams the fiasco with the Dolphins last season will mean the upcoming locker room conduct policies will protect him some. Probably the most common insult in a NFL locker room was the term fa**ot. The NFL is going to be policing that conduct now and it will protect Sams without him having to defend himself.

I think his stock will drop without a single word being mentioned of his sexuality. He was dominated in the SEC championship game and overshadowed in the SR bowl by Dee Ford. I predict late 3rd rd for him.

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As for the religious aspect of this....I am a Christian and I do not understand how a man can be attracted to another man. But judging by what I have read of this Jesus guy I imagine if he was here today and confronted by a gay guy he would probably hug him around the neck, tell him he loves him, and then he would pray for that guy. I'm not so sure he would take this condemning stance that most Christians today do. IMO God gave every man the right to choose right from wrong, so it always amazes me when I see Christians trying to take away mans God given right. Whether that be trying to make abortion illegal or ban gay marriage or what have you. You councel your brother, you love your brother, and you pray for your brother. But you do not condemn your brother as that right is reserved for the creator of your brother.

The problem is it's your opinion and it's pretty casual with the truth. If you walk your talk, this "Jesus guy" is your Messiah, the creator of the universe. Not some guy. He loved the woman at the well just like He did me in my sin. He also pointed it out and said "quit".

I'll take absolute truth and apply liberally in love.

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There are few things that I'm more passionate about than Auburn football, but the Bible is definitely one of those things. I'm clearly not going to agree with everyone on this thread about their views on homosexuality and Christianity. I understand that. And I agree that what Michael Sam does is his business. And yes, God will ultimately be the judge of his eternal destiny.

**Side note** I will add that I still believe that God has already judged certainly lifestyles and actions in the Bible.

But where I take issue is when someone disagrees with a certain lifestyle, they are immediately accused of hatred and bigotry. That is a blatant attempt to shut up the conservative, right wing society. Yes, we live in a free country today. That also means that if you have the right to support this man for his decision then I have just as much right to disagree with this man's decision. And I believe that we can have those discussions in a respectful manner without the name calling.

Now getting back to football, I too believe that the SECCG should and will have more to do with this man's draft stock than his announcement. He was completely neutralized by our OL and running game. I for one expected him to give us more trouble in that game.

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And BTW taking everything literally in the bible means we are all in hell. The bible is a skewed book, written and translated by humans (not God). Translated to the agenda of King James the 8th. I know you will never see my point, but I have to put that out there...

I mean you get 4 different views on the same events in the New Testament...obviously opens some room for interpretation, but I'm sure there is a way to cherry pick around that to and choose one to follow...but somehow agree with everything else in the bible you choose to agree with.

I understand that many people cherry pick the scriptures today. But that is not what I did and not what I believe in doing. I gave specific verses that condemned the subject that we are discussing.

The four gospels each tell a different perspective but they are still in harmony with one another, as is the entire Bible. And please tell me what was it that King James translates incorrectly from Greek to English for the purpose of his own agenda.

The lack of historical knowledge by Christians about their religion and book is astounding. An hour or less of study would have Fundamentalists in a corner crying. I mean the world's oldest Bible, The Sinai Bible, is so different from the modern Bible, yet so many "believers" think what they carry to church every Sunday is the infallible words of God. The modern Bible has had over 14,000 editorial alterations and has 3 less Gospels. In the Sinai Bible Mark begins with Jesus at age 30 and there is no mention of a virgin birth, no mass murders by Herod, no King David, and no opening narrative about "the son of God". It's a wonderful book to read, but to base your life around it or the writings of Mohammed, Confucius, L Ron Hubbard, or Tony Robbins in the 21st century is just unsensible.

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Matthew. 23:27

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean.

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There are few things that I'm more passionate about than Auburn football, but the Bible is definitely one of those things. I'm clearly not going to agree with everyone on this thread about their views on homosexuality and Christianity. I understand that. And I agree that what Michael Sam does is his business. And yes, God will ultimately be the judge of his eternal destiny.

**Side note** I will add that I still believe that God has already judged certainly lifestyles and actions in the Bible.

But where I take issue is when someone disagrees with a certain lifestyle, they are immediately accused of hatred and bigotry. That is a blatant attempt to shut up the conservative, right wing society. Yes, we live in a free country today. That also means that if you have the right to support this man for his decision then I have just as much right to disagree with this man's decision. And I believe that we can have those discussions in a respectful manner without the name calling.

Now getting back to football, I too believe that the SECCG should and will have more to do with this man's draft stock than his announcement. He was completely neutralized by our OL and running game. I for one expected him to give us more trouble in that game.

Cam, how do YOU define bigotry? I didn't bring the topic up, someone else did. I just provided the definitions.

I want one of you to explain the difference between your feelings towards homosexuality and someone's feelings 40 years ago about interracial dating.

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If you're so "Lets obey the law of God regarding personal decisions" in this thread but NOT in the KB Marijuana thread,

Dude, you are very confused about what I wrote above. Read it again.

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"Bigotry is the state of mind of a bigot: someone who, as a result of their prejudices, treats or views other people with fear, distrust, hatred, contempt, or intolerance on the basis of a person's opinion, ethnicity, race, religion, national origin, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, disability, socioeconomic status, or other characteristics." A bigot is: "a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. : a bigoted person; especially : a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group (such as a racial or religious group)."

So...basically everything you just said. The problem is, what you believe is the absolute truth of God's word doesn't really matter once you get outside of your sphere of influence. In other words, that is subjective, rather than objective, opinion - not necessarily "truth."

Look up the word ABOMINATION since u believe in the dictionary rather than what's in the bible, smh.

Cam, I just ran across this quote here. I do not call YOU a bigot, as you have stated you disagree with the sin but love the sinner. The line that gets crossed into bigotry, however, is when someone starts demeaning someone based on that feeling, or intimating that they are somehow lesser because of that belief or race or gender. This is a perfect example. This is not "I do not agree with your sexuality but I still love you." This is "What you are is an abomination in the eyes of God." One of them is disagreement, one of them creates judgement based on that disagreement.

I can't really think of any clearer way to illustrate it.

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There are few things that I'm more passionate about than Auburn football, but the Bible is definitely one of those things. I'm clearly not going to agree with everyone on this thread about their views on homosexuality and Christianity. I understand that. And I agree that what Michael Sam does is his business. And yes, God will ultimately be the judge of his eternal destiny.

**Side note** I will add that I still believe that God has already judged certainly lifestyles and actions in the Bible.

But where I take issue is when someone disagrees with a certain lifestyle, they are immediately accused of hatred and bigotry. That is a blatant attempt to shut up the conservative, right wing society. Yes, we live in a free country today. That also means that if you have the right to support this man for his decision then I have just as much right to disagree with this man's decision. And I believe that we can have those discussions in a respectful manner without the name calling.

Now getting back to football, I too believe that the SECCG should and will have more to do with this man's draft stock than his announcement. He was completely neutralized by our OL and running game. I for one expected him to give us more trouble in that game.

This. Liberals, msnbc-types, hollywoodites, and the like speak about freedom of speech and opinion and lifestyle until you disagree with their opinion. Then those same freedom loving people label those in disagreement as bigoted, stupid, ignorant...etc. I can't judge the eternal soul of any person but I can judge a tree by the fruit it bears.

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Well, if it walks the walk...

You are entirely free to believe what you want to believe and say what you want to say, just as I am fully free to call you out on how abhorrent those beliefs are. I'm not telling you you can't believe them, I'm just telling you I think you are wrong.

I think it's hilarious you conservatives think that disagreement means we are trying to silence you. I think it stems from you guys trying to silence us for years, so you just think that's the way things work.

I will never understand your thought process. If you say something, and we call it bigoted, you have 3 options: You can change what you say, you can ignore that we called it that, or you can give us evidence to the contrary to make us change our minds. That's how debate works. But somehow, conservatives have twisted that around into debate means that you get to yell at us but we can't yell back.

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I certainly make no claims to have the definitive opinion or final say in this discussion about Michael Sam, homosexuality, and the correct Christian response. However, I do hope that I might add to the dialogue some things that might have been overlooked or at least assumed.

First, whether you are a Christian or not; agnostic or not, we all have some standard by which we measure right and wrong. Your ultimate understanding of reality is obviously determines what your standard will be. For the secularist that values human reason and autonomy above all else then the standard of morality will be a sliding scale of subjectivism, some form of "live and let live." For the Christian, the highest value is God. He and his revealed wisdom through the Bible are the final standard of morality.

The obvious implication is that while one person lauds the decision of a young man to declare his homosexuality and another person condemns it, this is not a matter of bigotry or judgmentalism. It is a matter of categorizing an act based on two different standards.

Second, those who would paint Jesus as a loving God who would merely hug a gay man's neck and let him live his life that way are misrepresenting the fuller more complicated picture of who Jesus is and what He came to do.

Of course He loves all people, but there are varying degrees that his love is revealed to us and in differing times. While we live on this earth God's standard of holiness is not diminished or mitigated by his love. Rather, God has chosen to extend grace and mercy while we live so that we might repent and turn to Him. The truth is that one day his mercy will run out for sinners who have repented and believed in Jesus as Lord. But until that day of Judgment the responsibility of Christians to magnify God's love and grace BY calling men everywhere to repent and believe. This is an incredibly difficult balance for Christians to maintain which is why we need the guiding help of his Holy Spirit each day.

Third, the correct Christian response to rules and laws in society IS to obey the government. But we are also supposed to be active in transforming that government into a form that honors the things that God cares about. So of course Christians should be active in matters of justice in the legal system as we have opportunity. Of course we vote to restrict abortions. We are commanded to defend the weak and stand up for life.

Anyway, I am sorry this turned into a dissertation. I just wanted to help give some perspective that might be helpful.

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Well, if it walks the walk...

You are entirely free to believe what you want to believe and say what you want to say, just as I am fully free to call you out on how abhorrent those beliefs are. I'm not telling you you can't believe them, I'm just telling you I think you are wrong. If you came to me today and said "The bible says that it's OK to have slaves," then I would call you out on it there, too.

I think it's hilarious you conservatives think that disagreement means we are trying to silence you. I think it stems from you guys trying to silence us for years, so you just think that's the way things work.

I will never understand your thought process. If you say something, and we call it bigoted, you have 3 options: You can change what you say, you can ignore that we called it that, or you can give us evidence to the contrary to make us change our minds. That's how debate works. But somehow, conservatives have twisted that around into debate means that you get to yell at us but we can't yell back.

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Well, if it walks the walk...

You are entirely free to believe what you want to believe and say what you want to say, just as I am fully free to call you out on how abhorrent those beliefs are. I'm not telling you you can't believe them, I'm just telling you I think you are wrong.

I think it's hilarious you conservatives think that disagreement means we are trying to silence you. I think it stems from you guys trying to silence us for years, so you just think that's the way things work.

I will never understand your thought process. If you say something, and we call it bigoted, you have 3 options: You can change what you say, you can ignore that we called it that, or you can give us evidence to the contrary to make us change our minds. That's how debate works. But somehow, conservatives have twisted that around into debate means that you get to yell at us but we can't yell back.

That's because they equate their political ideals to religion. It is taboo in society to question someone's religious beliefs, and today's conservatives believe their political beliefs are the infallible words of God just like their holy book.

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The obvious implication is that while one person lauds the decision of a young man to declare his homosexuality and another person condemns it, this is not a matter of bigotry or judgmentalism. It is a matter of categorizing an act based on two different standards.

Well written, Pastor. I agree with this statement, but have a discussion question about it.

The US is a country governed by secular laws and is not a "Christian Nation." Both of the worldviews you stated above exist, and both are internally valid, but only one of them actually has the force of governmental law behind it. What has supremacy, then, when those two worldviews are at odds, as in this case? In your post, you mention that you should follow the law but work to change. I'm just curious about your thoughts on the intersection between those two.

And I will reiterate - bigotry is when you start to form a value judgement of someone being less than you because of whatever demographic. Holding a differing opinion is not bigotry, that's just disagreement.

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There are few things that I'm more passionate about than Auburn football, but the Bible is definitely one of those things. I'm clearly not going to agree with everyone on this thread about their views on homosexuality and Christianity. I understand that. And I agree that what Michael Sam does is his business. And yes, God will ultimately be the judge of his eternal destiny.

**Side note** I will add that I still believe that God has already judged certainly lifestyles and actions in the Bible.

But where I take issue is when someone disagrees with a certain lifestyle, they are immediately accused of hatred and bigotry. That is a blatant attempt to shut up the conservative, right wing society. Yes, we live in a free country today. That also means that if you have the right to support this man for his decision then I have just as much right to disagree with this man's decision. And I believe that we can have those discussions in a respectful manner without the name calling.

Now getting back to football, I too believe that the SECCG should and will have more to do with this man's draft stock than his announcement. He was completely neutralized by our OL and running game. I for one expected him to give us more trouble in that game.

Cam, how do YOU define bigotry? I didn't bring the topic up, someone else did. I just provided the definitions.

I want one of you to explain the difference between your feelings towards homosexuality and someone's feelings 40 years ago about interracial dating.

Very simple. People's views and opinions about interracial dating are not based on the Word of God. There is no where in the Bible that says that a white man can't marry a black, Hispanic, or Asian woman and vice versa. This is a cultural issue and not a Biblical issue.

I agree with the definition that you presented for bigotry. But my personal belief is not suggesting or encouraging hatred, fear, or bullying towards these people. I spoke out against what I consider a "sin". You and others have have sooken out against my beliefs on this subject. Per your argument, would that not make you a bigot also?

My beliefs, morals, principles, and convictions come from a faith in a divinely inspired Book and faith in a higher power. Without the Bible, man would have no concept of faith, true, morality, justice, and love. And I believe a Godless society that continues to fulfill their lusts and desires will continue to break down "the home" and the society that we live in.

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Well, if it walks the walk...

You are entirely free to believe what you want to believe and say what you want to say, just as I am fully free to call you out on how abhorrent those beliefs are. I'm not telling you you can't believe them, I'm just telling you I think you are wrong.

I think it's hilarious you conservatives think that disagreement means we are trying to silence you. I think it stems from you guys trying to silence us for years, so you just think that's the way things work.

I will never understand your thought process. If you say something, and we call it bigoted, you have 3 options: You can change what you say, you can ignore that we called it that, or you can give us evidence to the contrary to make us change our minds. That's how debate works. But somehow, conservatives have twisted that around into debate means that you get to yell at us but we can't yell back.

Because I feel that living a homosexual lifestyle is wrong doesn't mean I'm bigoted. I had several good friends while at AUburn that were a part of AGLA. we had several discussions about homosexuality, religion, and politics. I maintained my opinion that it was an improper and disordered lifestyle while they disagreed with me, never once did they call me a bigot or homophobic. I think drug abuse and prostitution are wrong (allegedly victimless) but that doesn't mean I hate those persons, I only dislike what they're doing/living. So, we can agree to disagree but my opinion in itself doesn't make me a bigot just a those who approve of a certain lifestyle aren't necessarily more intelligent and the like.

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The obvious implication is that while one person lauds the decision of a young man to declare his homosexuality and another person condemns it, this is not a matter of bigotry or judgmentalism. It is a matter of categorizing an act based on two different standards.

Well written, Pastor. I agree with this statement, but have a discussion question about it.

The US is a country governed by secular laws and is not a "Christian Nation." Both of the worldviews you stated above exist, and both are internally valid, but only one of them actually has the force of governmental law behind it. What has supremacy, then, when those two worldviews are at odds, as in this case? In your post, you mention that you should follow the law but work to change. I'm just curious about your thoughts on the intersection between those two.

And I will reiterate - bigotry is when you start to form a value judgement of someone being less than you because of whatever demographic. Holding a differing opinion is not bigotry, that's just disagreement.

Yes it is certainly the case that many claim to be Christians and are very judgmental or bigoted. It drives me crazy to hear the older generation of my church still use the "N" word! So you are very right to draw distinctions between the two.

As far as how we work together in our government, that is always a tricky issue. The supremacy for a Christian is always going to be God's "law" as revealed in the Word. But this requires a great deal of wisdom and discernment in the Christian. Christians cannot simply claim a law to be unbiblical and clamor for civil disobedience every time the gov't does something we don't like. Whether you agree with liberal politics or conservative, you cannot vilify the other out of hand.

The basic principle for the Christian is that if our secular government makes a law that COMPELS a Christian to disobey God's law then we decide to obey God. The really hard part comes when the government makes laws that calls "good" what God calls "evil"(Isaiah 5:20). Should a Christian refuse to pay taxes that support Obamacare if Obamacare truly does require our insurance to fund abortions? Hmm...

The bottom line is that we must seek to do good and live at peace in our society as long as we are not actively opposing God's will.

This is a great question you raise though!!!

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I certainly make no claims to have the definitive opinion or final say in this discussion about Michael Sam, homosexuality, and the correct Christian response. However, I do hope that I might add to the dialogue some things that might have been overlooked or at least assumed.

First, whether you are a Christian or not; agnostic or not, we all have some standard by which we measure right and wrong. Your ultimate understanding of reality is obviously determines what your standard will be. For the secularist that values human reason and autonomy above all else then the standard of morality will be a sliding scale of subjectivism, some form of "live and let live." For the Christian, the highest value is God. He and his revealed wisdom through the Bible are the final standard of morality.

The obvious implication is that while one person lauds the decision of a young man to declare his homosexuality and another person condemns it, this is not a matter of bigotry or judgmentalism. It is a matter of categorizing an act based on two different standards.

Second, those who would paint Jesus as a loving God who would merely hug a gay man's neck and let him live his life that way are misrepresenting the fuller more complicated picture of who Jesus is and what He came to do.

Of course He loves all people, but there are varying degrees that his love is revealed to us and in differing times. While we live on this earth God's standard of holiness is not diminished or mitigated by his love. Rather, God has chosen to extend grace and mercy while we live so that we might repent and turn to Him. The truth is that one day his mercy will run out for sinners who have repented and believed in Jesus as Lord. But until that day of Judgment the responsibility of Christians to magnify God's love and grace BY calling men everywhere to repent and believe. This is an incredibly difficult balance for Christians to maintain which is why we need the guiding help of his Holy Spirit each day.

Third, the correct Christian response to rules and laws in society IS to obey the government. But we are also supposed to be active in transforming that government into a form that honors the things that God cares about. So of course Christians should be active in matters of justice in the legal system as we have opportunity. Of course we vote to restrict abortions. We are commanded to defend the weak and stand up for life.

Anyway, I am sorry this turned into a dissertation. I just wanted to help give some perspective that might be helpful.

I completely disagree with your conclusion on secular and Christian morality. If this were the case, then why are Christians today so different then in centuries past? Has the Bible changed since the Crusades, or when heretics were burned at the stake? No, Christians have also followed this "sliding scale of subjectivism". Passages are chosen by the individual to be followed, based on what they believe is moral. The bible is not their standard for their morality.

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Without the Bible, man would have no concept of faith, true, morality, justice, and love.

Seriously? Wow.

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