Michael Sams coming out party

[PastorChris 0]

So...if there are translations that all say different things, how are they not "interpretations"?

That's a great question! And it is complicated. There are basically two types of translations:

1. Formal equivalence - Trying to translate word-for-word from the original language

2. Dynamic equivalence - Trying to capture the meaning of the text.

The King James most people are familiar with is a formal equivalence translation. For every word of Greek in the New Testament they tried to find one word in English (albeit Olde English) to match.

The Living Bible is a paraphrase that tries to capture the meaning of the original text. So, a lot of "interpretation" happens in these.

[Auctoritas 2,828]

But there are many cases in which there are greek or Hebrew words that have multiple meaningslso, there are other formal translations that use different words (ASV for instance). I take it it is your assertion that they are also divinely inspired?

[PastorChris 0]

But there are many cases in which there are greek or Hebrew words that have multiple meaningslso, there are other formal translations that use different words (ASV for instance). I take it it is your assertion that they are also divinely inspired?

Different Christians might state it a little differently, but orthodox Christianity has held to the original manuscripts being divinely inspired, not the translations.

You are right that different translations use different words in a lot of cases. Like I said, it is complicated. This doesn't even address the issue of which manuscripts do we even use for our English translations. There are literally thousands of fragments of copies of copies of the originals and Bible scholars have to decide which of those are accurate before they even try to translate them!

But, this is why we call it the Christian "faith." By faith we believe that God gets his Word to his people somehow... and sometimes even in spite of us!

[Auctoritas 2,828]

I respect your honesty.

[selias 2,398]

I respect your honesty.

Agreed.

[PastorChris 0]

I respect your honesty.

Agreed.

Thanks, guys. I enjoy his type of civil interaction. I gotta get back to work now, but I'll PM my email address if you cant to continue a discussion.

[AubTiger14 0]

I do not personally take the Bible as fact or consider myself Christian, but it annoys me when people pick vague passages open to interpretation and use them to attack others they do not agree with. That is not what being Christian is about, and that kind of attitude is part of the reason the Church as a whole is declining. Jesus walked with sinners, yet some of the people that follow him today want to chastise everyone they consider a sinner. I didn't even read most of this thread so I'm not calling anyone out, but listening to the radio today I get frustrated.

Michael Sam has a right to be who he is, just as much as anyone else has a right to practice Christianity. Part of being ethical as a person and as a society is treating others with respect and reserving judgement, even if you do not agree with them on certain issues. I'm all for religious freedom and the morality most religions teach their followers, but this world does not run on conservative-christian beliefs, as much as some people in the bible belt want it to. It runs on the ubiquitous ethical principles and laws that the vast majority of ethical theories and law-making governments have agreed upon.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

He should of waited till after signing a big contract. It will probably hurt his draft status, by how much is the question.

Whoa, whoa....how dare you talk football in this thread! <SARCASM ALERT>

[DKW 86 7,419]

Being a Christian is a huge part of my life and for years i was in one of those fundie churches. Later on, with maturity in life and maturity in faith i began to see that pretending to live a life of righteousness was a silly goal that we are all doomed to fail horrifically at. I know whole denominations that mangle one verse:

"Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God” (1 John 3:7-9). and they feel that they can therefore condemn anyone they want.

There are others that have convinced themselves they do sin, but their sin is not as bad as another's sin. I call that the "theory of relative hierarchy of sins." It is a lie. Sin is sin and i am chief among the sinners. "This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief." 1 Tim 1:15. I rest there.

I know i am as screwed up as anyone. I have done stoopid in spades, on the Internet, with witnesses. I am no one but somehow God loves me anyway. That is a message i can share and be happy with. I love my new life, my new church, and my new friends. But i know, i am no better than the lowest. Mother Theresa was a true saint. Pope Francis may change millions of lives with how he leads his own life. humble folks are true reflections of the Holy Spirit.

Two things are true. 1) Jesus saved His true wrath for the believers who were too proud to see the truth. 2) Jesus hung out with people like me. For that i am eternally grateful.

[Weegle777 78]

I would encourage you all to give Joseph Prince a listen.

[PowerOfDixieland 3,226]

I would encourage you all to give Joseph Prince a listen.

Interestingly, even those within the body can disagree under the tent of grace which Prince articulates (to the exclusion of moral law). Grace is an overwhelming thing. Without obedience I believe it's cheapened. Preaching Paul's gospel (only) is less than the complete picture of the Bible and God's love story with humanity, no matter what translation.

[TheBlueVue 177]

So, why is this news? If equality is the goal then stop making announcements like these special. When was the last "I'm straight" announcement?

Amen. Why do gay people seem to feel irresistibly compelled to tell people about their sexuality? Why should anyone care? I dont care but i get tired of it being jammed in my face because someone feels I need to know about it. Good for him or whatever the PC response is...Next!

[finxster 4]

I would encourage you all to give Joseph Prince a listen.

I would encourage you all to give Sam Harris a listen.

I'll even be so kind as to provide a youtube link...

[finxster 4]

So, why is this news? If equality is the goal then stop making announcements like these special. When was the last "I'm straight" announcement?

Amen. Why do gay people seem to feel irresistibly compelled to tell people about their sexuality? Why should anyone care? I dont care but i get tired of it being jammed in my face because someone feels I need to know about it. Good for him or whatever the PC response is...Next!

I would assume because it is a big part of their life. Just like religious people, veterans, sports fanatics, etc. are always compelled to discuss their topic incessantly. But of course not everyone is like that, just like not all gay people are compelled to do so.

[msg6367 1]

So, why is this news? If equality is the goal then stop making announcements like these special. When was the last "I'm straight" announcement?

Amen. Why do gay people seem to feel irresistibly compelled to tell people about their sexuality? Why should anyone care? I dont care but i get tired of it being jammed in my face because someone feels I need to know about it. Good for him or whatever the PC response is...Next!

It doesn't bother me one way or another that he's gay but I think he felt that "coming out" was a way to let all of his potential future employers know before drafting him and finding out second hand from one of the Missouri teammates that he already told. Despite how many feel, whether homophobic or indifference, it took some cojones to do what he did. Unfortunately, it's going to be the main story leading up to the draft so everyone has several more months to hear about it.

[TheBlueVue 177]

So, why is this news? If equality is the goal then stop making announcements like these special. When was the last "I'm straight" announcement?

Amen. Why do gay people seem to feel irresistibly compelled to tell people about their sexuality? Why should anyone care? I dont care but i get tired of it being jammed in my face because someone feels I need to know about it. Good for him or whatever the PC response is...Next!

I would assume because it is a big part of their life. Just like religious people, veterans, sports fanatics, etc. are always compelled to discuss their topic incessantly. But of course not everyone is like that, just like not all gay people are compelled to do so.

Im sorry. I dont recall anyone holding a press conference or going on TV to announce their religious conversion or lack of one. Nor have I seen a press conference for anyone to announce their fan allegiance. He can discuss this s*** with those close to him til the end of time but i dont see the need to make a big deal out of it. Of course, he can do whatever he wishes period. I simply dont get it.

[cammycam2 173]

This thread... the bible thumpers... ouch... since we are all throwing beliefs out there, i feel more inclined to base my faith off of "One Fish Two fish, Red Fish Blue Fish" than i do the bible...

[Auctoritas 2,828]

So, why is this news? If equality is the goal then stop making announcements like these special. When was the last "I'm straight" announcement?

Amen. Why do gay people seem to feel irresistibly compelled to tell people about their sexuality? Why should anyone care? I dont care but i get tired of it being jammed in my face because someone feels I need to know about it. Good for him or whatever the PC response is...Next!

I would assume because it is a big part of their life. Just like religious people, veterans, sports fanatics, etc. are always compelled to discuss their topic incessantly. But of course not everyone is like that, just like not all gay people are compelled to do so.

Im sorry. I dont recall anyone holding a press conference or going on TV to announce their religious conversion or lack of one. Nor have I seen a press conference for anyone to announce their fan allegiance. He can discuss this s*** with those close to him til the end of time but i dont see the need to make a big deal out of it. Of course, he can do whatever he wishes period. I simply dont get it.

You probably never had to come out of a closet. You are a red-blooded American male (I assume, otherwise I'm reading your voice all wrong) who has mainstream political, social, or religious views.

Believe me, the hardest thing I ever had to do was come halfway out of the closet as an atheist. By doing so (and due to some litigation), I received upwards of 20 actionable death threats, had my house egged, my car egged and keyed, was nearly fired from 2 jobs, was (and am still) a pariah in the community, and woke up one morning to a guy on my front porch who took a knife and implanted it in my porch rail, then left.

It's really clear, no matter what you feel: fact that it's gotten this much media play and discussion means that it's still a big deal in the eyes of society.

But believe you me, the day that I hope for is the day you describe, where it's not a big deal anymore, because that means that society's made a great leap forward. We, however, are not there yet.

[selias 2,398]

So, why is this news? If equality is the goal then stop making announcements like these special. When was the last "I'm straight" announcement?

Amen. Why do gay people seem to feel irresistibly compelled to tell people about their sexuality? Why should anyone care? I dont care but i get tired of it being jammed in my face because someone feels I need to know about it. Good for him or whatever the PC response is...Next!

I would assume because it is a big part of their life. Just like religious people, veterans, sports fanatics, etc. are always compelled to discuss their topic incessantly. But of course not everyone is like that, just like not all gay people are compelled to do so.

Im sorry. I dont recall anyone holding a press conference or going on TV to announce their religious conversion or lack of one. Nor have I seen a press conference for anyone to announce their fan allegiance. He can discuss this s*** with those close to him til the end of time but i dont see the need to make a big deal out of it. Of course, he can do whatever he wishes period. I simply dont get it.

You probably never had to come out of a closet. You are a red-blooded American male (I assume, otherwise I'm reading your voice all wrong) who has mainstream political, social, or religious views.

Believe me, the hardest thing I ever had to do was come halfway out of the closet as an atheist. By doing so (and due to some litigation), I received upwards of 20 actionable death threats, had my house egged, my car egged and keyed, was nearly fired from 2 jobs, was (and am still) a pariah in the community, and woke up one morning to a guy on my front porch who took a knife and implanted it in my porch rail, then left.

It's really clear, no matter what you feel: fact that it's gotten this much media play and discussion means that it's still a big deal in the eyes of society.

But believe you me, the day that I hope for is the day you describe, where it's not a big deal anymore, because that means that society's made a great leap forward. We, however, are not there yet.

Holy smokes, do you live in Iran?

[Weegle777 78]

I would encourage you all to give Joseph Prince a listen.

Interestingly, even those within the body can disagree under the tent of grace which Prince articulates (to the exclusion of moral law). Grace is an overwhelming thing. Without obedience I believe it's cheapened. Preaching Paul's gospel (only) is less than the complete picture of the Bible and God's love story with humanity, no matter what translation.

Do you live your life by the law or by Grace?

[Auctoritas 2,828]

So, why is this news? If equality is the goal then stop making announcements like these special. When was the last "I'm straight" announcement?

Amen. Why do gay people seem to feel irresistibly compelled to tell people about their sexuality? Why should anyone care? I dont care but i get tired of it being jammed in my face because someone feels I need to know about it. Good for him or whatever the PC response is...Next!

I would assume because it is a big part of their life. Just like religious people, veterans, sports fanatics, etc. are always compelled to discuss their topic incessantly. But of course not everyone is like that, just like not all gay people are compelled to do so.

Im sorry. I dont recall anyone holding a press conference or going on TV to announce their religious conversion or lack of one. Nor have I seen a press conference for anyone to announce their fan allegiance. He can discuss this s*** with those close to him til the end of time but i dont see the need to make a big deal out of it. Of course, he can do whatever he wishes period. I simply dont get it.

You probably never had to come out of a closet. You are a red-blooded American male (I assume, otherwise I'm reading your voice all wrong) who has mainstream political, social, or religious views.

Believe me, the hardest thing I ever had to do was come halfway out of the closet as an atheist. By doing so (and due to some litigation), I received upwards of 20 actionable death threats, had my house egged, my car egged and keyed, was nearly fired from 2 jobs, was (and am still) a pariah in the community, and woke up one morning to a guy on my front porch who took a knife and implanted it in my porch rail, then left.

It's really clear, no matter what you feel: fact that it's gotten this much media play and discussion means that it's still a big deal in the eyes of society.

But believe you me, the day that I hope for is the day you describe, where it's not a big deal anymore, because that means that society's made a great leap forward. We, however, are not there yet.

Holy smokes, do you live in Iran?

Ha! No, it was up in Habersham County, GA in 2003. I'll let people make their own connections if they want to go down that particular rabbit hole.

[finxster 4]

So, why is this news? If equality is the goal then stop making announcements like these special. When was the last "I'm straight" announcement?

Amen. Why do gay people seem to feel irresistibly compelled to tell people about their sexuality? Why should anyone care? I dont care but i get tired of it being jammed in my face because someone feels I need to know about it. Good for him or whatever the PC response is...Next!

I would assume because it is a big part of their life. Just like religious people, veterans, sports fanatics, etc. are always compelled to discuss their topic incessantly. But of course not everyone is like that, just like not all gay people are compelled to do so.

Im sorry. I dont recall anyone holding a press conference or going on TV to announce their religious conversion or lack of one. Nor have I seen a press conference for anyone to announce their fan allegiance. He can discuss this s*** with those close to him til the end of time but i dont see the need to make a big deal out of it. Of course, he can do whatever he wishes period. I simply dont get it.

You probably never had to come out of a closet. You are a red-blooded American male (I assume, otherwise I'm reading your voice all wrong) who has mainstream political, social, or religious views.

Believe me, the hardest thing I ever had to do was come halfway out of the closet as an atheist. By doing so (and due to some litigation), I received upwards of 20 actionable death threats, had my house egged, my car egged and keyed, was nearly fired from 2 jobs, was (and am still) a pariah in the community, and woke up one morning to a guy on my front porch who took a knife and implanted it in my porch rail, then left.

It's really clear, no matter what you feel: fact that it's gotten this much media play and discussion means that it's still a big deal in the eyes of society.

But believe you me, the day that I hope for is the day you describe, where it's not a big deal anymore, because that means that society's made a great leap forward. We, however, are not there yet.

It's sad that it is that way. That's the reason that only a few people know that I am an Atheist. I have to smile, bow my head, and have discussions on religion just so that my family is not shamed by the community. I am very sorry you had to go through something like that.

[Auctoritas 2,828]

I appreciate it, and what also you have to do to. Been there myself. See you at the next secret meeting to influence the liberal media and bring forth the end of times! Bring a casserole!

[finxster 4]

So, why is this news? If equality is the goal then stop making announcements like these special. When was the last "I'm straight" announcement?

Amen. Why do gay people seem to feel irresistibly compelled to tell people about their sexuality? Why should anyone care? I dont care but i get tired of it being jammed in my face because someone feels I need to know about it. Good for him or whatever the PC response is...Next!

I would assume because it is a big part of their life. Just like religious people, veterans, sports fanatics, etc. are always compelled to discuss their topic incessantly. But of course not everyone is like that, just like not all gay people are compelled to do so.

Im sorry. I dont recall anyone holding a press conference or going on TV to announce their religious conversion or lack of one. Nor have I seen a press conference for anyone to announce their fan allegiance. He can discuss this s*** with those close to him til the end of time but i dont see the need to make a big deal out of it. Of course, he can do whatever he wishes period. I simply dont get it.

You probably never had to come out of a closet. You are a red-blooded American male (I assume, otherwise I'm reading your voice all wrong) who has mainstream political, social, or religious views.

Believe me, the hardest thing I ever had to do was come halfway out of the closet as an atheist. By doing so (and due to some litigation), I received upwards of 20 actionable death threats, had my house egged, my car egged and keyed, was nearly fired from 2 jobs, was (and am still) a pariah in the community, and woke up one morning to a guy on my front porch who took a knife and implanted it in my porch rail, then left.

It's really clear, no matter what you feel: fact that it's gotten this much media play and discussion means that it's still a big deal in the eyes of society.

But believe you me, the day that I hope for is the day you describe, where it's not a big deal anymore, because that means that society's made a great leap forward. We, however, are not there yet.

Holy smokes, do you live in Iran?

Ha! No, it was up in Habersham County, GA in 2003. I'll let people make their own connections if they want to go down that particular rabbit hole.

Wow! You were brave to do what you did.

And the argument of secular laws being based on the ten commandments is such a farce. Maybe half of them are useful, and even chimps and other high intelligence mammals have shown that they know murder and theft are wrong.

[finxster 4]

I appreciate it, and what also you have to do to. Been there myself. See you at the next secret meeting to influence the liberal media and bring forth the end of times! Bring a casserole!

You should have PM'd that...now everyone knows...