Michael Sams coming out party

[Martinisat5 5]

What, No soap on a rope jokes?

[trout54 55]

come on guys. this is nothing more than a preemptive strike. sams knew his secret was going to get out, since he had announced it to his team to start the season. now that he is no longer on the team that did such a good job of keeping it secret, any teammates that didn't necessarily agree with his choice could run to the press. he "outed" himself to prevent being outed by others.

[keesler 5,924]

So, why is this news? If equality is the goal then stop making announcements like these special. When was the last "I'm straight" announcement?

Amen. Why do gay people seem to feel irresistibly compelled to tell people about their sexuality? Why should anyone care? I dont care but i get tired of it being jammed in my face because someone feels I need to know about it. Good for him or whatever the PC response is...Next!

I would assume because it is a big part of their life. Just like religious people, veterans, sports fanatics, etc. are always compelled to discuss their topic incessantly. But of course not everyone is like that, just like not all gay people are compelled to do so.

Im sorry. I dont recall anyone holding a press conference or going on TV to announce their religious conversion or lack of one. Nor have I seen a press conference for anyone to announce their fan allegiance. He can discuss this s*** with those close to him til the end of time but i dont see the need to make a big deal out of it. Of course, he can do whatever he wishes period. I simply dont get it.

You probably never had to come out of a closet. You are a red-blooded American male (I assume, otherwise I'm reading your voice all wrong) who has mainstream political, social, or religious views.

Believe me, the hardest thing I ever had to do was come halfway out of the closet as an atheist. By doing so (and due to some litigation), I received upwards of 20 actionable death threats, had my house egged, my car egged and keyed, was nearly fired from 2 jobs, was (and am still) a pariah in the community, and woke up one morning to a guy on my front porch who took a knife and implanted it in my porch rail, then left.

It's really clear, no matter what you feel: fact that it's gotten this much media play and discussion means that it's still a big deal in the eyes of society.

But believe you me, the day that I hope for is the day you describe, where it's not a big deal anymore, because that means that society's made a great leap forward. We, however, are not there yet.

Goodness gracious dude! Did you announce/come out about your atheistism on the front steps of the county courthouse? How did so many folks find out you were an atheist in your community?

[JMassie11 1,610]

come on guys. this is nothing more than a preemptive strike. sams knew his secret was going to get out, since he had announced it to his team to start the season. now that he is no longer on the team that did such a good job of keeping it secret, any teammates that didn't necessarily agree with his choice could run to the press. he "outed" himself to prevent being outed by others.

exactly especially since he is public about his affairs. ...my reason for the thread was wether or not it would effect his draft stock and any legality behind it if it did...not wether its right wrong or green or black

[PowerOfDixieland 3,226]

I would encourage you all to give Joseph Prince a listen.

Interestingly, even those within the body can disagree under the tent of grace which Prince articulates (to the exclusion of moral law). Grace is an overwhelming thing. Without obedience I believe it's cheapened. Preaching Paul's gospel (only) is less than the complete picture of the Bible and God's love story with humanity, no matter what translation.

Do you live your life by the law or by Grace?

I am under compulsion by way of the Holy Spirit to live here (just passing through) according to the law. My eternal destiny is secured by way of grace through the atoning death of Jesus Christ. And for Finxster and Auctoritas and Michael Sams He bids everyone to come to salvation by way of His unbelievable gift. Which, as you and I know, cannot be earned. This may be the best thread ever. No kidding. Thanks big Mike!

[PowerOfDixieland 3,226]

Goodness gracious dude! Did you announce/come out about your atheistism on the front steps of the county courthouse? How did so many folks find out you were an atheist in your community?

I'm guessing he had the Ten Commandments removed from said courthouse.

[Weegle777 78]

I would encourage you all to give Joseph Prince a listen.

Interestingly, even those within the body can disagree under the tent of grace which Prince articulates (to the exclusion of moral law). Grace is an overwhelming thing. Without obedience I believe it's cheapened. Preaching Paul's gospel (only) is less than the complete picture of the Bible and God's love story with humanity, no matter what translation.

Do you live your life by the law or by Grace?

I am under compulsion by way of the Holy Spirit to live here (just passing through) according to the law. My eternal destiny is secured by way of grace through the atoning death of Jesus Christ. And for Finxster and Auctoritas and Michael Sams He bids everyone to come to salvation by way of His unbelievable gift. Which, as you and I know, cannot be earned. This may be the best thread ever. No kidding. Thanks big Mike!

Why do you live by a covenant that God Himself found fault with?

[Auctoritas 2,828]

Goodness gracious dude! Did you announce/come out about your atheistism on the front steps of the county courthouse? How did so many folks find out you were an atheist in your community?

I'm guessing he had the Ten Commandments removed from said courthouse.

You would be correct. Although, that is a little bit of a misleading statement.

Full disclosure (and bear in mind, I rarely disclose this to many people - for the obvious reason that the last time it came out, I wasn't exactly well received):

In 2001, a private group approached the Habersham County Commission with a large Ten Commandments plaque and wanted to put it up. The CC accepted it, and at a meeting, adopted the following resolution:

"WE, THE BELOW-SIGNED SETTING [sic] COMMISSION OF HABERSHAM COUNTY, IN CONSIDERATION OF OUR BIBLICAL HISTORY OF GEORGIA, BOTH IN OUR CONSTITUTION AND DEVOTIONAL ACTS IN OUR HERITAGE, HEREBY ACKNOWLEDGE THE IMPORTANCE OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS OF ALMIGHTY GOD AND WISH TO GO ON RECORD IN SUPPORT OF THIS MAGNIFICENT DOCUMENT AND STATE THAT WE WILL DEFEND OUR RIGHT TO DISPLAY TO THE LIMIT OF OUR ABILITY, AGAINST ALL ENEMIES, DOMESTIC AND FOREIGN, PUBLIC AND PRIVATE. IN THE ENACTING OF THIS RESOLUTION, WE HEREBY PETITION THE GOD OF HEAVEN TO PRESERVE THE PEACE WHICH HE HAS SO GRACIOUSLY EXTENDED TO U.S. BY OUR ANCIENT ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS AND BEG HIS CONTINUED PROTECTION AND ALLEVIATION OF ILLS WHICH COME TO THOSE WHO FORGET HIM AND HIS LAW."

Judge William O'Kelley said in open court that it was the most blatant religious proclamation he had ever seen.

The individual who was presenting this resolution noted that he was "on a mission to restore God back into our governments" and urged the board to be "leaders in God's work." A member of the board indicated his agreement with similar sentiments and made a motion to accept the resolution, which was adopted unanimously. The display went up, alone, right inside the front door of the courthouse so that it was the first thing you saw when you went inside. A copy also was posted in the same manner at the Natatorium. There was a separate display in the Tag Office at the courthouse.

There were several complaints regarding it, but most of those people were understandably nervous about being named in a lawsuit. I, however, felt that my standing in the community as well as my occupation as a firefighter/EMT would shield me somewhat from backlash, and would possibly help people realize that someone who didn't believe in God could still be good. In the end, Reverend Bo Turner and I agreed to be plaintiffs in the case. Bo was the former mayor of Clarkesville, the county seat, as well as a Baptist minister, preaching at a fairly sizeable church in the area. The lawsuit was filed in March of 2002 as a case on First Amendment grounds that the County's action violated the Establishment Clause - in essence, the action coupled with the proclamation established what an objective observer would consider an official religion of the County.

In response to the lawsuit, and by advice of their legal counsel, in October of 2002 the county started accepting donations of "other" "historical documents to culturally enrich the citizens of this county due to the special historical significance of these documents and symbols to our county and our country." In the end, the original display remained, and 4 other things were posted in small picture frames in normal typeface - the Mayflower Compact, the Magna Carta, the Declaration of Independence, and ironically enough, the Bill of Rights. When it was clear from Judge William O'Kelley's comments during the discovery phase that that was not enough to mitigate the violation because it was obvious which document was more important due to its size and decoration, the county removed the initial Ten Commandments plaque and placed in it's spot a Ten Commandments that matched the historical documents. That was the final offer pre-trial from the defendants. We decided to decline that as a settlement and moved to trial.

The trial in Federal Court in Gainesville was certainly an interesting experience, and one that I am unabashedly proud of. It is not often that a 23 year old man gets to participate in our great system of government at such an important level.

I will not bore you with details, much, of the trial. I was the first witness called by the plaintiff's attorneys. There was an attorney from the area that was working Pro Bono, and the defense decided that they would save their big guns from the Liberty Council for Rev. Turner, who was known as a constitutional scholar as well as very good at verbal sparring. The testimony was fairly standard from both sides, until I was asked if I didn't like the display, couldn't I "just walk into the courthouse at the back door?" I looked up at Judge O'Kelley, who looked down, smirked, and gave me a little nod. I responded, "I'm sorry, I thought we'd gotten rid of that sort of thing back when they outlawed segregation."

The defense attorney looked poleaxed and said he was all done.

That exchange was highlighted in the ruling. Judge O'Kelley: "Counsel for the defendant brought out that plaintiffs could have avoided their alleged injuries had they chosen to do so; they could have accessed the buildings through back entrances or sent in car registration fees through the mail. Although the defendant did not explicitly make this argument in its written brief, the court found the implications of the questioning at trial quite distasteful. One would hope this country has progressed well beyond the point where any minority segment of our society is forced to use back door entrances to government buildings simply to accommodate the beliefs of the majority." (emphasis mine)

In early 2004, Judge O'Kelley (who, by the way, was a Reagan appointee, and was known as a conservative justice) ruled that,

"...The court finds that defendant's display of the Ten Commandments violates the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment. Defendant has failed to retreat from the unambiguous religious purpose articulated when the first resolution was passed and has done nothing to indicate to the reasonable observer how the presented documents are historically related, thereby failing under both prongs one and two of the Lemon test. While there might be ways to constitutionally display the Ten Commandments as part of a larger, historical presentation, Habersham County has failed to do so in this case."

It is important to note that we asked for no damages and received no compensation. After the trial, our attorneys filed a motion for the losing party to reimburse legal fees, which is standard practice, albeit one that I was unaware of. The initial thought by the County Commission was that their legal insurance through the GA Association of County Commissioners would cover it; However, it turns out that the language of their policy only would pay the court costs if damages were awarded. The County was on the hook for that money. It is my only regret with this case - That money could have been used elsewhere. To pay it off, and to fund an appeal, several citizens of the county offered to donate money for the possible costs.

After counsel for the County Commission researched, she determined that even if the money came from private hands, it cannot be given and accepted for an express purpose to fight a court battle. The County Commission decided, then, that they would not appeal the ruling, and removed the Ten Commandments, as well as the rest of the vitally important historical documents. In its place, they hung an empty picture frame where the Ten Commandments had been.

I did not undertake that lawsuit lightly, or as an attack on Christianity, or Christians, or God. I would have done the same had they erected something from Islam, or Hinduism, or Buddhism. I fought this fight because I am an American, and a proud one at that. There is a reason that the Framers put the First Amendment in a place of primacy in the Bill of Rights, and there is a reason that the Framers also put the religion clause first in it. We are part of a great nation that was founded with ideals that we are all equal, and as such, we should have equal access to, and equal treatment from our government. Had the display originally gone up with the rest of those documents, and the initial proclamation not existed, I would not have batted an eye. But, instead, the posted the Ten Commandments with a proclamation that I, by want of majority religion, was a second class citizen and I was not welcome there.

My mom once told me of her experience marching with African Americans during the Civil Rights movement. She told me that sometimes, even if it is dangerous, we have to stand up to make sure that nobody else has to sit down. She told me that one day, I would have to make a choice as well, and then she reiterated Matthew 25:35-40 "For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.' Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink? And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee? And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?' And the King will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.'"

So, when I speak of my experiences, and why I believe the way I do politically, socially, religiously, these things are why. I've seen the worst of what man can do, and some of the best. I may not be a Christian, but there's nothing that says I can't do good while I'm at it. And sometimes, that means standing up to be counted- even when the world is against you or your brethren whom you may know or may have never met- so that we all, as a nation, can be assured that we all stand together.

If you are interested in reading Judge O'Kelley's opinion, it is here: http://www.leagle.co...COUNTY, GEORGIA

[PatBoCamRob 30]

TLDNR this entire thread.

Can we all agree to not perpetuate this topic on AUFAMILY?

I don't feel like expressing my opinion about sexual preferences or anything related to the news of Michael Sams.

I don't think any member of AUFAMILY should be compelled to opine on the issue.

Put it this way. Anything you say or do can be held against you in the court of public opinion.

If you agree with Sams' decision to announce this, some people will hate you. If you disagree with Sams' decision to announce this, some people will hate you.

What is most important to me is that Auburn is worthy of everyone's admiration, regardless.

I've spoken my piece.

[Weegle777 78]

As a follower of Christ, I have no problem with the ten commandments coming down. When you understand why the law was given at Sinai, you won't either.

[AUDub 11,147]

Thanks for that, Auctoritas. Great read.

[telling tiger 156]

Great read and great work. Thank you.

[Weegle777 78]

Yep. Thank you Auctoritas. You are helping to spread the new covenant by proving that the bible is truth. Well done sir. The old covenant is fading away and the new is taking it's place. Ten commandments need to come down and the covenant of grace needs to rise!

[quietfan 233]

Haven't felt any need to join this fray until now...but I do think the thread has long moved past the topic of M. Sam's announcement and more appropriate belongs in the "Political Speaking" forum at this point.

Now however, even as a believing Christian, I wish to say:

1) Thank you for your story, Auctoritas, and thank you for fighting for the 1st Amendment and protecting the wall between church and state (any church/religion).

2) Also, appreciate your post, PatBoCamRob, except you went a bit astray in your statement "I don't think any member of AUFAMILY should be compelled to opine on the issue." No one is "compelled" to post anything on AUFamily.com, except perhaps for the compulsion of their own personal conscience. We're not even compelled to go to the site.

3) Finally, as for Michael Sams: Of course it took courage for him to come out, now or last fall when he told his team, just as it took courage for those during the hey day of the Civil Rights movement to risk life, limb, or harassment in defending the rights of another minority in this great nation and those in the 1800's who stood up for Native Americans.

[IndianTiger 95]

Auctoritas..great read and work, truly inspiring.

[Auctoritas 2,828]

Thank you, guys. It's not something that I freely talk that much about - I still have to be careful - And this may be the first time that I've had a real opportunity to get my entire story down at one time. It felt good, and thanks for listening to it!

[cooltigger21 0]

It will be interesting on how this affect his draft stock.

doubt it will much. Hell the NFL is so much into political correctness these days anyway. They will play this one to the hilt. It would be difficult to prove that it caused such a thing to happen.

[PowerOfDixieland 3,226]

I would encourage you all to give Joseph Prince a listen.

Interestingly, even those within the body can disagree under the tent of grace which Prince articulates (to the exclusion of moral law). Grace is an overwhelming thing. Without obedience I believe it's cheapened. Preaching Paul's gospel (only) is less than the complete picture of the Bible and God's love story with humanity, no matter what translation.

Do you live your life by the law or by Grace?

I am under compulsion by way of the Holy Spirit to live here (just passing through) according to the law. My eternal destiny is secured by way of grace through the atoning death of Jesus Christ. And for Finxster and Auctoritas and Michael Sams He bids everyone to come to salvation by way of His unbelievable gift. Which, as you and I know, cannot be earned. This may be the best thread ever. No kidding. Thanks big Mike!

Why do you live by a covenant that God Himself found fault with?

If not for the law, there would be no need for a savior. But don't take my opinion (it's worthless, I know) read Paul's writing in Ephesians chapters 4-6. In perspective, the law is a beautiful (albeit unobtainable) standard. Makes me love Jesus Christ all the more!!

[Weegle777 78]

I would encourage you all to give Joseph Prince a listen.

Interestingly, even those within the body can disagree under the tent of grace which Prince articulates (to the exclusion of moral law). Grace is an overwhelming thing. Without obedience I believe it's cheapened. Preaching Paul's gospel (only) is less than the complete picture of the Bible and God's love story with humanity, no matter what translation.

Do you live your life by the law or by Grace?

I am under compulsion by way of the Holy Spirit to live here (just passing through) according to the law. My eternal destiny is secured by way of grace through the atoning death of Jesus Christ. And for Finxster and Auctoritas and Michael Sams He bids everyone to come to salvation by way of His unbelievable gift. Which, as you and I know, cannot be earned. This may be the best thread ever. No kidding. Thanks big Mike!

Why do you live by a covenant that God Himself found fault with?

If not for the law, there would be no need for a savior. But don't take my opinion (it's worthless, I know) read Paul's writing in Ephesians chapters 4-6. In perspective, the law is a beautiful (albeit unobtainable) standard. Makes me love Jesus Christ all the more!!

Oh I'm very familiar with Paul's Gospel. That is why I asked that question.

[AUFAN78 3,894]

This thread makes it abundantly clear, we need to pray for Michael Sams, pray for our AUF brethren and pray for this country.

[Auctoritas 2,828]

This thread makes it abundantly clear, we need to pray for Michael Sams, pray for our AUF brethren and pray for this country.

We're fine. Really, we are.

[smackydoodle 200]

Threads such as these always reminds me that Auburn is in Alabama.

[PowerOfDixieland 3,226]

Threads such as these always reminds me that Auburn is in Alabama.

Which is in the greatest country on the face of the earth. Because of the real heroes who have laid down their lives so we can have threads such as these. I love Auburn, I love Alabama and I love the USA.

You?

[TexasTiger 12,829]

I must be outta the loop, never heard of this guy.

Yeah, you are.

[Auctoritas 2,828]

POD Loves Bama! Get him!

Oh...oh, wait, the state.

You know, it's funny, I've never lived in Alabama, I've spent my entire life in GA up until I moved to the NC coast last Fall. But my family has about 150 acres that's been ours for 180 years out in Coosa County, and I always say that I was born in GA, but my family is from Alabama. That's my end-of-the-world backup plan, too...Has a catfish pond, a branch that runs through it, lots of good farmland and woodland with the attendant game. If everything goes south, I know where I am headed. You guys are all invited, of course.