Another Ruby Ridge on the Horizon?

[AUDub 11,137]

Where are you getting your information? I am finding a lot of stories but, they seem to be conflicting?

Here's an informative piece on the matter. Avoid the comments, though. Informative in their own right, but lots of flame throwing.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

Where are you getting your information? I am finding a lot of stories but, they seem to be conflicting?

Here's an informative piece on the matter. Avoid the comments, though. Informative in their own right, but lots of flame throwing.

Yeah but,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,that article is basically an attack on the "conservative media". Is there anything out there with limited bias.

That article may represent fact but, from the title alone, there is an ulterior agenda.

Mr. Bundy doesn't appear to be radical or raving. He keeps calling the land, Clark County lands. He believes he stands on principle. I still find it difficult to believe that reason cannot, or will not, prevail.

[homersapien 11,357]

I'm glad you asked Blue. The partisan bickering that is contained in your ridiculous post. I believe you have the basic principles identified very well. However, it is lost in your inane political rant.

it was a joke you dumbass. When your sense of propriety is so far gone that you cant even tell a joke from being serious THAT is the sign of a true partisan.

LOL!

Well, it certainly is now.

[AUDub 11,137]

Yeah but,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,that article is basically an attack on the "conservative media". Is there anything out there with limited bias.

That article may represent fact but, from the title alone, there is an ulterior agenda.

You're smart enough to see past any agenda. I won't deny that the article may be biased, but if you ignore the rhetoric and the article's focus on the wingnuts, the facts are there. Keep hunting. If you find a less biased source, be sure to pass it along.

Mr. Bundy doesn't appear to be radical or raving.

Well, I don't think he's stark raving mad by any means. But you and I must have a very different opinion on radical.

He keeps calling the land, Clark County lands.

And he's wrong.

He believes he stands on principle.

I'll have to remember to voice my principled opposition of speed limits to the police officer next time I get pulled over. I'll also be sure to make sure he knows I'm armed and will do "whatever it takes" to keep from getting a ticket, just to further this silly analogy.

I still find it difficult to believe that reason cannot, or will not, prevail.

I hope so, too. Too much incendiary rhetoric, if you ask me.

[TheBlueVue 177]

I'm glad you asked Blue. The partisan bickering that is contained in your ridiculous post. I believe you have the basic principles identified very well. However, it is lost in your inane political rant.

it was a joke you dumbass. When your sense of propriety is so far gone that you cant even tell a joke from being serious THAT is the sign of a true partisan.

LOL!

Well, it certainly is now.

Glad you liked it homie. I find myself having that kind of reaction to your posts when you're dead serious. What makes my joke funny is that it definitely has a ring of truth to it.

[homersapien 11,357]

I'm glad you asked Blue. The partisan bickering that is contained in your ridiculous post. I believe you have the basic principles identified very well. However, it is lost in your inane political rant.

it was a joke you dumbass. When your sense of propriety is so far gone that you cant even tell a joke from being serious THAT is the sign of a true partisan.

LOL!

Well, it certainly is now.

Glad you liked it homie. I find myself having that kind of reaction to your posts when you're dead serious. What makes my joke funny is that it definitely has a ring of truth to it.

Well, help me out here. How are we supposed to know when you are joking?

It's not like crazy hyperbole is a distinguishing factor. :-\

[TheBlueVue 177]

This makes more sense now. I figured there was more to the story than was being told. Seems good ole Harry Reid's son Rory who represents a Chinese concern wants the Bundy's off their land so they can build a solar panel station there. Running the family off at gun point begs the question. Whats next? All the to do over the grazing fees didn't make sense, especially since they refused to accept them once they started protecting the desert tortoise. Now the BLM is killing the desert tortoise too.

http://www.infowars.com/breaking-sen-harry-reid-behind-blm-land-grab-of-bundy-ranch/

[Weegle777 78]

'Bout to get real boys.

http://www.americasfreedomfighters.com/2014/04/11/armed-militias-head-to-nevada-ranch-as-populist-showdown-with-federal-government-teeters-on-brink-of-violence-bloodshed/

[Elephant Tipper 430]

I'm glad you asked Blue. The partisan bickering that is contained in your ridiculous post. I believe you have the basic principles identified very well. However, it is lost in your inane political rant.

it was a joke you dumbass. When your sense of propriety is so far gone that you cant even tell a joke from being serious THAT is the sign of a true partisan.

LOL!

Well, it certainly is now.

Glad you liked it homie. I find myself having that kind of reaction to your posts when you're dead serious. What makes my joke funny is that it definitely has a ring of truth to it.

Well, help me out here. How are we supposed to know when you are joking?

It's not like crazy hyperbole is a distinguishing factor. :-\

Good question that is applicable to all who post in this forum. I liked BlueVue calling you a dumbass though homer, no, not that he called YOU a dumbass, but that BV used the wording I basically use when I reply to stupid comments. People know that my comment isn't in derision but to make them wise up or else the next time it will be derisive.

[Elephant Tipper 430]

'Bout to get real boys.

http://www.americasf...ence-bloodshed/

I briefly listened to this Bundy fellow and he mentioned that this issue is actually under the auspices of Nevada and that the BLM has used the tortoise as their ruse to step in. To be on the safe side.....I'm for Bundy !

EDIT:

Just heard Bundy again and he is emphatic that the land belongs to the state of Nevada. Was saying the cattle are not stepping on tortoises, that it just doesn't happen.

[Weegle777 78]

If these armed militias are in fact en route, and a bloodbath ensues, this will give the government exactly what fuel they need to start taking guns from everyone.

[AUDub 11,137]

'Bout to get real boys.

http://www.americasf...ence-bloodshed/

I briefly listened to this Bundy fellow and he mentioned that this issue is actually under the auspices of Nevada and that the BLM has used the tortoise as their ruse to step in. :dunno:/> To be on the safe side.....I'm for Bundy ! :hellyeah:/>

EDIT:

Just heard Bundy again and he is emphatic that the land belongs to the state of Nevada. Was saying the cattle are not stepping on tortoises, that it just doesn't happen.

Doesn't know what he's talking about, apparently. If he had bothered to read Nevada's constitution, he'd realize that land is federally owned.

[TheBlueVue 177]

'Bout to get real boys.

http://www.americasf...ence-bloodshed/

I briefly listened to this Bundy fellow and he mentioned that this issue is actually under the auspices of Nevada and that the BLM has used the tortoise as their ruse to step in. To be on the safe side.....I'm for Bundy !

EDIT:

Just heard Bundy again and he is emphatic that the land belongs to the state of Nevada. Was saying the cattle are not stepping on tortoises, that it just doesn't happen.

The are a couple of really noteworthy issues. First, this is NOT federal land. The BLM owns 84% of the state of Nevada but those cows were grazing on county and state property. 2nd.The tortoise issue was a red herring all along. Bottom line..Harry Reid wants Bundy's property and is using the BLM to get it. This is how 3rd world countries operate. If the govt doesn't withdraw, this will get very ugly because the people out there are not going to back down and a lot of outside support is on the way.

[AUDub 11,137]

...First, this is NOT federal land. The BLM owns 84% of the state of Nevada but those cows were grazing on county and state property....

Expound on this assertion, please.

[TheBlueVue 177]

'Bout to get real boys.

http://www.americasf...ence-bloodshed/

I briefly listened to this Bundy fellow and he mentioned that this issue is actually under the auspices of Nevada and that the BLM has used the tortoise as their ruse to step in. :dunno:/> To be on the safe side.....I'm for Bundy ! :hellyeah:/>

EDIT:

Just heard Bundy again and he is emphatic that the land belongs to the state of Nevada. Was saying the cattle are not stepping on tortoises, that it just doesn't happen.

Doesn't know what he's talking about, apparently. If he had bothered to read Nevada's constitution, he'd realize that land is federally owned.

OK I'll concede the land is federally owned but do you think its a fair question to ask why the federal govt owns 84% of the land in Nevada? Really? 84%

[AUDub 11,137]

OK I'll concede the land is federally owned but do you think its a fair question to ask why the federal govt owns 84% of the land in Nevada? Really? 84%

Here you go, Blue.

How did Nevada differ in the Amount of Lands Acquired from the Federal Public Lands?

Upon admission states were given two sections of public land in each township for schools. Nevada, however, did not want those scattered "desert" lands. Instead Nevada petitioned Congress to trade those sections for 1 million acres of land anywhere in the state. Congress ultimately granted Nevada a choice of any 2 million acres of unappropriated lands. Nevada selected 2 million acres of the best land (near or with water) and promptly sold all of it to private uses.

[TheBlueVue 177]

OK I'll concede the land is federally owned but do you think its a fair question to ask why the federal govt owns 84% of the land in Nevada? Really? 84%

Here you go, Blue.

How did Nevada differ in the Amount of Lands Acquired from the Federal Public Lands?

Upon admission states were given two sections of public land in each township for schools. Nevada, however, did not want those scattered "desert" lands. Instead Nevada petitioned Congress to trade those sections for 1 million acres of land anywhere in the state. Congress ultimately granted Nevada a choice of any 2 million acres of unappropriated lands. Nevada selected 2 million acres of the best land (near or with water) and promptly sold all of it to private uses.

http://nevada.sierra...ubliclands.html

Heres what I found.

"Bundy’s dispute with the government began about 1993 when the bureau changed grazing rules for the 600,000-acre Gold Butte area to protect an endangered desert tortoise, KLAS reported. "

The desert tortoise is not an endangered species. Bundy knows that and felt he was being jerked around. I dont blame him. Frankly, I am surprised so many trust our govt to always do the right thing. I still believe this NOT about grazing fees or tortoises. its about getting control of his land.

[AUDub 11,137]

OK I'll concede the land is federally owned but do you think its a fair question to ask why the federal govt owns 84% of the land in Nevada? Really? 84%

Here you go, Blue.

How did Nevada differ in the Amount of Lands Acquired from the Federal Public Lands?

Upon admission states were given two sections of public land in each township for schools. Nevada, however, did not want those scattered "desert" lands. Instead Nevada petitioned Congress to trade those sections for 1 million acres of land anywhere in the state. Congress ultimately granted Nevada a choice of any 2 million acres of unappropriated lands. Nevada selected 2 million acres of the best land (near or with water) and promptly sold all of it to private uses.

http://nevada.sierra...ubliclands.html

Heres what I found.

"Bundy’s dispute with the government began about 1993 when the bureau changed grazing rules for the 600,000-acre Gold Butte area to protect an endangered desert tortoise, KLAS reported. "

The desert tortoise is not an endangered species. Bundy knows that and felt he was being jerked around. I dont blame him. Frankly, I am surprised so many trust our govt to always do the right thing. I still believe this NOT about grazing fees or tortoises. its about getting control of his land.

It's not his land.

[TheBlueVue 177]

OK I'll concede the land is federally owned but do you think its a fair question to ask why the federal govt owns 84% of the land in Nevada? Really? 84%

Here you go, Blue.

How did Nevada differ in the Amount of Lands Acquired from the Federal Public Lands?

Upon admission states were given two sections of public land in each township for schools. Nevada, however, did not want those scattered "desert" lands. Instead Nevada petitioned Congress to trade those sections for 1 million acres of land anywhere in the state. Congress ultimately granted Nevada a choice of any 2 million acres of unappropriated lands. Nevada selected 2 million acres of the best land (near or with water) and promptly sold all of it to private uses.

http://nevada.sierra...ubliclands.html

Heres what I found.

"Bundy’s dispute with the government began about 1993 when the bureau changed grazing rules for the 600,000-acre Gold Butte area to protect an endangered desert tortoise, KLAS reported. "

The desert tortoise is not an endangered species. Bundy knows that and felt he was being jerked around. I dont blame him. Frankly, I am surprised so many trust our govt to always do the right thing. I still believe this NOT about grazing fees or tortoises. its about getting control of his land.

It's not his land.

Im under the impression it was county and state land until 1993 when the grazing rules were changed to protect the desert tortoise. He had been paying the state and county grazing fees up until then. He saw no reason for the BLM to get involved and seeing how his family had cows on that land since 1878 I can understand his point of view.

They are trying to shut him down. The guy is a significant land owner and one of the last ranchers in the area. Are you saying he owns no land at all?

[AUDub 11,137]

Im under the impression it was county and state land until 1993 when the grazing rules were changed to protect the desert tortoise. He had been paying the state and county grazing fees up until then.

It's been federal land since the state was founded. It was a condition of Nevada's statehood.

He saw no reason for the BLM to get involved and seeing how his family had cows on that land since 1878 I can understand his point of view.

That basically amounts to squatter's rights, which mean nothing at all.

They are trying to shut him down. The guy is a significant land owner and one of the last ranchers in the area. Are you saying he owns no land at all?

No. He owns some land, but not the land on which he grazes his cattle. And it's on the condition he pays his lease and abides by the conditions set forth by BLM, which he has not done in 21 years.

[TheBlueVue 177]

"No. He owns some land, but not the land on which he grazes his cattle. And it's on the condition he pays his lease and abides by the conditions set forth by BLM, which he has not done in 21 years."

Can you explain why he had no problem before 1993? I saw an interview where he said he had been paying the county and state grazing fees up until 1993. Then the land he was using was declared a protected area by the BLM to protect the desert tortoise which he says is not an endangered species. The BLM is killing them now.

I mean, I just think its odd that you would totally discount a guy's story who has been fighting this battle since 1993 as somebody who has no idea what he's talking about. You obviously trust the govt and therein is the defining difference in terms of how we process this event. I definitely do not.

[AUDub 11,137]

Can you explain why he had no problem before 1993? I saw an interview where he said he had been paying the county and state grazing fees up until 1993. Then the land he was using was declared a protected area by the BLM to protect the desert tortoise which he says is not an endangered species. The BLM is killing them now.

I can't answer with any degree of certainty, but deciding you no longer want to pay the lease to use land that is not yours will certainly cause problems. He's also wrong about who he was paying. I can't say for certain whether local governments handle collections for these leases, but he was paying the federal government to use that land.

As to the tortoise, its conservation status is listed as vulnerable. Threatened due to among other things, habitat destruction.

I mean, I just think its odd that you would totally discount a guy's story who has been fighting this battle since 1993 as somebody who has no idea what he's talking about. You obviously trust the govt and therein is the defining difference in terms of how we process this event. I definitely do not.

An appeal to (misplaced) authority? His story has some inconsistencies that set off the baloney detector, Blue. I can't offer much more than that.

As for trusting the government, I would suggest clicking that smiley little link in my sig for a good explanation on my worldview as it applies to the government. I think they're a den of fools, personally.

[TheBlueVue 177]

"As for trusting the government, I would suggest clicking that smiley little link in my sig for a good explanation on my worldview as it applies to the government. I think they're a den of fools, personally. "

If I cared what your world view was I might click it but i dont. Clearly, you have your reasons for your interpretations of this debacle and thats cool. Oops. I mis read your thought

This guy is getting a lot of support and I dont see him or his supporters backing down. I am hopeful something is done to de-escalate an ugly situation. I have to tell you that how impressed I am that you're convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt there is nothing sinister going on here and the guy whose family has been running cattle on this land since 1878 is all wrong and has no idea what he is talking about.

[AUDub 11,137]

...I have to tell you that how impressed I am that you're convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt there is nothing sinister going on here and the guy whose family has been running cattle on this land since 1878 is all wrong and has no idea what he is talking about.

Ah, the strawman. And you were doing so well!

[Elephant Tipper 430]

Apparently the FAA has enacted a no-fly zone over the ranch and cell towers have been turned off.

Link provides links to multiple stories:

http://www.ad-hoc-news.de/breaking-cell-towers-shut-down-no-fly-zone-ordered--/de/News/36406680

I keep reading that Harry Reid is involved somehow. The comment seems like conjecture but is there any evidence of this idea ?