Why no Auburn Men's Soccer team?

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

Title IX needs to be re-visited so that we take care of women sports while also not hurting smaller sports like Wrestling, Soccer, Rugby, and Lacrosse. The reality is that at Large D1 schools Football pays for all the other sports and also has the most scholarships (85). To make the number of scholarships between men and women equal you have to have enough women's sports to match the 85 scholarships. Since football pays for everything I think that it would be fairer to say that women must have as many scholarships as all other Men's sports and still getting a percentage of the football scholarships. The exact percentage would have to be negotiated but I think at least 50% up to 75%. That way you could add 1 or 2 men's sports without getting rid of any existing women's sports. Smaller sports can do partial scholarships like tuition paid only as a 1/2 scholarship so ten scholarships could be split among 20 students.

I totally disagree with the partial scholarships to other sports. I think all sports should get at the minimum full tuition/books for every athlete on the team regardless of sport. Let's be honest, those that participate in other sports (non football/basketball) are the ones mostly that are true student athletes. They are the ones that are going to stay 4 years, they are the ones that are going to earn a degree at their university of choice, and they are the ones that are looking to build a life dependent upon that degree.

I think its a shame that we completely fund the athletes that are looking to be 1 or 2 and done and do not care about a degree and we leave those that want their degree to fend for funding elsewhere.

I also support the concept that universities should provide its athletes with 4 year guaranteed scholarships, but in return for that obligation I think a athlete should not be able to leave for the professional leagues until they have earned a degree in return.

I don't disagree with your wish but the reality is it costs money and only one sport makes money. The reason I said split scholarships is that way more deserving kids would get a chance.

Isn't splitting the scholarships what they already do? Like baseball only gets something like 11.7 scholarships per year. The old Miss State coach..Polk?... he use to really fight trying to get more scholarships all the time.

[AuburnNTexas 7,140]

Title IX needs to be re-visited so that we take care of women sports while also not hurting smaller sports like Wrestling, Soccer, Rugby, and Lacrosse. The reality is that at Large D1 schools Football pays for all the other sports and also has the most scholarships (85). To make the number of scholarships between men and women equal you have to have enough women's sports to match the 85 scholarships. Since football pays for everything I think that it would be fairer to say that women must have as many scholarships as all other Men's sports and still getting a percentage of the football scholarships. The exact percentage would have to be negotiated but I think at least 50% up to 75%. That way you could add 1 or 2 men's sports without getting rid of any existing women's sports. Smaller sports can do partial scholarships like tuition paid only as a 1/2 scholarship so ten scholarships could be split among 20 students.

I totally disagree with the partial scholarships to other sports. I think all sports should get at the minimum full tuition/books for every athlete on the team regardless of sport. Let's be honest, those that participate in other sports (non football/basketball) are the ones mostly that are true student athletes. They are the ones that are going to stay 4 years, they are the ones that are going to earn a degree at their university of choice, and they are the ones that are looking to build a life dependent upon that degree.

I think its a shame that we completely fund the athletes that are looking to be 1 or 2 and done and do not care about a degree and we leave those that want their degree to fend for funding elsewhere.

I also support the concept that universities should provide its athletes with 4 year guaranteed scholarships, but in return for that obligation I think a athlete should not be able to leave for the professional leagues until they have earned a degree in return.

I don't disagree with your wish but the reality is it costs money and only one sport makes money. The reason I said split scholarships is that way more deserving kids would get a chance.

Isn't splitting the scholarships what they already do? Like baseball only gets something like 11.7 scholarships per year. The old Miss State coach..Polk?... he use to really fight trying to get more scholarships all the time.

A lot of the sports like baseball already split scholarships. That doesn't help the very poor kids who can't go without a full ride. But it does allow a larger number of kids to go to college as getting half a ride allows them to afford to go to college.

After World War II the GI Bill allowed an awful lot of young men to go to college and it changed this country. That is one of the reasons this country became so strong. Up until the early 70's kids could get a job and pay for college it was hard but it could be done. Then the cost of a college education exploded to the point that even middle and upper middle class families have trouble paying for college without saddling the kids with huge loans that put the kids behind the 8 ball when they graduate.

I wish there was a way we could have a whole lot more scholarships not just for sports but for all kids to allow more of our kids to go to school or to cut the cost of education period to allow people to be able to work and go to school. I worked throughout my time at Auburn. I was able to graduate with no debt and a great Auburn education. Kids can't do that today it is sad.

[InfernoOrangeSS 321]

Title IX needs to be re-visited so that we take care of women sports while also not hurting smaller sports like Wrestling, Soccer, Rugby, and Lacrosse. The reality is that at Large D1 schools Football pays for all the other sports and also has the most scholarships (85). To make the number of scholarships between men and women equal you have to have enough women's sports to match the 85 scholarships. Since football pays for everything I think that it would be fairer to say that women must have as many scholarships as all other Men's sports and still getting a percentage of the football scholarships. The exact percentage would have to be negotiated but I think at least 50% up to 75%. That way you could add 1 or 2 men's sports without getting rid of any existing women's sports. Smaller sports can do partial scholarships like tuition paid only as a 1/2 scholarship so ten scholarships could be split among 20 students.

I totally disagree with the partial scholarships to other sports. I think all sports should get at the minimum full tuition/books for every athlete on the team regardless of sport. Let's be honest, those that participate in other sports (non football/basketball) are the ones mostly that are true student athletes. They are the ones that are going to stay 4 years, they are the ones that are going to earn a degree at their university of choice, and they are the ones that are looking to build a life dependent upon that degree.

I think its a shame that we completely fund the athletes that are looking to be 1 or 2 and done and do not care about a degree and we leave those that want their degree to fend for funding elsewhere.

I also support the concept that universities should provide its athletes with 4 year guaranteed scholarships, but in return for that obligation I think a athlete should not be able to leave for the professional leagues until they have earned a degree in return.

I don't disagree with your wish but the reality is it costs money and only one sport makes money. The reason I said split scholarships is that way more deserving kids would get a chance.

Isn't splitting the scholarships what they already do? Like baseball only gets something like 11.7 scholarships per year. The old Miss State coach..Polk?... he use to really fight trying to get more scholarships all the time.

A lot of the sports like baseball already split scholarships. That doesn't help the very poor kids who can't go without a full ride. But it does allow a larger number of kids to go to college as getting half a ride allows them to afford to go to college.

After World War II the GI Bill allowed an awful lot of young men to go to college and it changed this country. That is one of the reasons this country became so strong. Up until the early 70's kids could get a job and pay for college it was hard but it could be done. Then the cost of a college education exploded to the point that even middle and upper middle class families have trouble paying for college without saddling the kids with huge loans that put the kids behind the 8 ball when they graduate.

I wish there was a way we could have a whole lot more scholarships not just for sports but for all kids to allow more of our kids to go to school or to cut the cost of education period to allow people to be able to work and go to school. I worked throughout my time at Auburn. I was able to graduate with no debt and a great Auburn education. Kids can't do that today it is sad.

Doesn't Georgia do that with their lottery? If so, it's too bad Alabama doesn't.

[gilstein21 1]

The Georgia lottery scholarships are not what they used to be. Most who qualify get money that will cover partial tuition, and a very small percentage get full rides - tuition at least. The program has undergone several changes in recent years so I'm not sure what the exact details are currently.

[InfernoOrangeSS 321]

The Georgia lottery scholarships are not what they used to be. Most who qualify get money that will cover partial tuition, and a very small percentage get full rides - tuition at least. The program has undergone several changes in recent years so I'm not sure what the exact details are currently.

I wasn't sure either, and didn't want to quote incorrect facts. I thought at one time, if you graduated with a certain GPA, you received a full scholarship to go to college.

Seems like Alabama could do something modified to that and offer full rides to students entering needed infrastructure majors like teaching/nursing/engineering/etc. Of course, you'd have to be able to sell the lottery to the church going people.

[AU64 10,122]

The Georgia lottery scholarships are not what they used to be. Most who qualify get money that will cover partial tuition, and a very small percentage get full rides - tuition at least. The program has undergone several changes in recent years so I'm not sure what the exact details are currently.

I wasn't sure either, and didn't want to quote incorrect facts. I thought at one time, if you graduated with a certain GPA, you received a full scholarship to go to college.

Seems like Alabama could do something modified to that and offer full rides to students entering needed infrastructure majors like teaching/nursing/engineering/etc. Of course, you'd have to be able to sell the lottery to the church going people.

From what I saw in a quick search, Ga and SC have a sliding scale but with a decent GPA it's good money...up to $10,000 in SC and add that to other scholarships....like a partial baseball for example, and it helps keep some kids in college instead of seeing them sign with the pros when they are not ready.

If you want to understand the impact of partial baseball scholarships, check how few minority kids play baseball in the SEC...or anywhere for that matter in Div 1. Every day I read somewhere about the poor football players not getting a fair deal, etc....but nobody is concerned much about basketball players, swimmers...and certainly not about baseball players trying to flange together money from several different sources so they can attend a school like Auburn.

But as I've said numerous times....the media and sports agents are only concerned about the top 10% of Div 1 football players...trying to give them a bigger slice of a pie that is already divided into a hundred thousand shares.....and to heck with all the rest of the college scholarship athletes. Greed will be the undoing of scholarship athletics in college.

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

The Georgia lottery scholarships are not what they used to be. Most who qualify get money that will cover partial tuition, and a very small percentage get full rides - tuition at least. The program has undergone several changes in recent years so I'm not sure what the exact details are currently.

I wasn't sure either, and didn't want to quote incorrect facts. I thought at one time, if you graduated with a certain GPA, you received a full scholarship to go to college.

Seems like Alabama could do something modified to that and offer full rides to students entering needed infrastructure majors like teaching/nursing/engineering/etc. Of course, you'd have to be able to sell the lottery to the church going people.

I think when it first came out that it was you had certain GPA you then got full ride to any state school as long as you maintained a certain GPA there also. Was one of the reasons that UGA's academic rating shot up very quickly was because it allowed them to become very selective in their freshmen classes.

[Auburn4Winners 0]

I would definitely support an Auburn Tigers Men's Soccer team.. That would be so much fun. I watched a college match the other night and even though the talent level is blatantly different than the World Cup we just witnessed, it was still so much fun to watch the match.

[aucanucktiger 1,791]

It would great to have an Auburn Tiger, playing for the US national team in the World Cup..

Now, that would be something..

With some notable exceptions (e.g. Clint Dempsey), most national team-caliber mens players, unlike women, are playing professionally before age 18. I was involved in early development discussions re womens NCAA soccer at Auburn, and meeting Title IX (at the time) across the board program requirements was the #1 driving factor behind AU fielding a womens (in lieu of a mens) team. Leading up to it, Pat Dye as AD was impressively informed re Title IX and soccer nuances, like knowing we have a soccer talent pipeline right up the road in Atlanta and the options in sports like soccer and rowing for "flagging" vs offering NCAA compliant scholarships to propspects. Soccer is a relatively low budget commitment sport with a high title 9 fulfillment upside. Fwiw, Auburn has had a competitive mens soccer club program for decades that occasioanlly attracts phenomenal talent and plays Bama & other collge clubs, albeit in crumby facilities. When our mens program ventures into off season "friendlies" against mens NCAA teams (e.g. AUM) we frequently hold our own quite well.

[mustache eagle 2,397]

May try to take my daughter to a couple AU women's games this fall if we can work it in with her club schedule.

Can the men's club use the women's "stadium" field?

[aucanucktiger 1,791]

May try to take my daughter to a couple AU women's games this fall if we can work it in with her club schedule.

Can the men's club use the women's "stadium" field?

Al Del Greco kicked around with us in the soccer club while starting FG kicker for our football team. We guessed the coaches initially didn't know he was playing soccer on the side and when they found out and told him STOP!!! a good will gesture to Al (we guessed) along with his soccer buds...which I'm sure was a concern of the football staff :-\ was allowing AU mens soccer to scrimmage once during the off season in J-H. Crowned field but what a thrill!

[mustache eagle 2,397]

Cool. Was on a flight w a usmnt u-23 trainer after a 5 trip to Bahamas. Apparently beat Bahamas 5-1.

Hoping schedules work to see an AU ladies game. I think my kid would get a kick outta it

[InfernoOrangeSS 321]

I still wish the SEC would put a priority on Men's Soccer/Futball.

[AuburnNTexas 7,140]

Title IX is the reason. It mandates that men and women must have the same number of scholarship athletes. Since Football pays the bills it won't be dropped so you have to extra womens sports to make up for football's 85 scholarships. Gymnastics and Soccer are two sports that on most campuses are women only.

At some time Title IX must be revisited to take into consideration Football. I love womens sports and Title IX was needed to fix an unfair situation however like many good ideas it was not completly thought out. In trying to help women it unintentionally hurt some mens sports. Wrestling at Auburn was an example.

It could have required equal numbers of scholarships at all univerities that did not play football that would have only impacted a subset of schools. Then only count a percentage of the Football scholarships at the larger schools.

One idea that was mentioned years ago was only counting 65 scholarships against the total count instead of 85 that would allow 20 more scholarships for men in other sports like Wrestling, men's soccer, Rugby, Lacrosse, Mens gymnastics.

[augolf1716 21,103]

Title IX is the reason. It mandates that men and women must have the same number of scholarship athletes. Since Football pays the bills it won't be dropped so you have to extra womens sports to make up for football's 85 scholarships. Gymnastics and Soccer are two sports that on most campuses are women only.

At some time Title IX must be revisited to take into consideration Football. I love womens sports and Title IX was needed to fix an unfair situation however like many good ideas it was not completly thought out. In trying to help women it unintentionally hurt some mens sports. Wrestling at Auburn was an example.

It could have required equal numbers of scholarships at all univerities that did not play football that would have only impacted a subset of schools. Then only count a percentage of the Football scholarships at the larger schools.

One idea that was mentioned years ago was only counting 65 scholarships against the total count instead of 85 that would allow 20 more scholarships for men in other sports like Wrestling, men's soccer, Rugby, Lacrosse, Mens gymnastics.

Dang I miss Auburn wrestling. Knew a lot of Auburn wrestlers back in the day................Crazy as hell

[weagle26 0]

I still wish the SEC would put a priority on Men's Soccer/Futball.

Me too like other SEC sports I feel it can really get going.

[Mikey 16,576]

With the "full cost of attendance" rule going into effect I think we can safely rule out any school starting new non-revenue programs. Not a good thing, but it's going to be a financial fact of life.

[augolf1716 21,103]

^^This^^ you can pretty well kiss any new non-revenue sports starting goodbye................really sad to say

[AU64 10,122]

^^This^^ you can pretty well kiss any new non-revenue sports starting goodbye................really sad to say

And many schools are probably going to kiss some existing non-revenue sports good bye too.

How long before the conversation starts at AU?

[aucanucktiger 1,791]

When I played club ball at Auburn after getting injured and losing my soccer scholly @ Trinity College, AD Pat Dye actually gave a couple of us an audience c. 1981 on what it would take to bring men's (and women's) NCAA soccer to Auburn. Title IX was in its original, more severe form back then but Dye's no hick (which is more than I can say about his sounding board then of Hanley Funderburk and the BOT) and he was very informed about the game, maybe from his East Carolina days? With an existing NCAA specs soccer field (that we didn't have back then), expenses including salaries, insurance, and travel are extremely low in soccer such that even bottom-level NCAA men's soccer teams in minor conferences now break even. Major conferences have virtually all of their cleats, shinguards, unis and often balls donated (televised mens college soccer is not unusual). Our proximity to soccer-crazed Atlanta is a plus.

Bottom line: the reason for not having men's soccer at AU is basically, if it's a financial wash, title IX neutral and few are screaming for it, what's the motivation? SEC ADs informally discuss this though, Jurgen Klinsmann's grand scheme includes them.

[InfernoOrangeSS 321]

I would think that it is a break even sport, but that's probably not enough to warrant a look-see from the SEC.

[AU64 10,122]

I would think that it is a break even sport, but that's probably not enough to warrant a look-see from the SEC.

AU, believe it our not, does not get involved in fielding a team unless there is a commitment to win....and it's that "commitment to win" that ends up costing so much money.

I don't think I've every seen separate P and Ls for the various individual sports at AU. I'm sure that deep inside the administrative offices there are charts and graphs and projections for each sport and each head coach probably knows where they stand....but I've never seen the numbers made public.

Anyone have any ideas on this?

[Mikey 16,576]

Bottom line: the reason for not having men's soccer at AU is basically, if it's a financial wash, title IX neutral and few are screaming for it, what's the motivation? SEC ADs informally discuss this though, Jurgen Klinsmann's grand scheme includes them.

It would not be title IX neutral. We already field a women's soccer team, so every male put on soccer scholarship would have to be balanced by some new female on scholarship. Bowling, rowing or what have you. Also, it won't be anything close to a financial wash with the "total cost of attendance" rule. As AU64 alluded to yesterday, they'll be looking for teams to cut, not add.

[AuburnNTexas 7,140]

Other men's sports are starting up at smaller schools that don't field a football team. As an example LSU Alexandria is adding a men's Rugby Team this year. I know this because they have talked with my son about a possible scholarship as have a couple of other small school. That is why my son is giving up football in his senior year to dedicate his time to Rugby. Rugby like soccer does not cost a lot of money.

[aucanucktiger 1,791]

HEW's 1979 three part test and the 1996 letter of clarification are some of the reasons it's title IX neutral. Inelastic focus on athlete numbers, failure to consider differences between sports and even static references to budget have not been exclusive considerations for a while now. Without a complete dissertation here, IMO the current state of title IX makes this neutral because an entire soccer-specific facility exists exclusively for that one sport and exclusively for women when men could also use it for the same sport without prejudicing women. IMO.