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Dontavious Russell and Andrew Williams

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By ClaytonAU
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AUIH1 Founding Father

AUIH1 1,515

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The jury is still out. Being a disabled veteran does not give a person a pass to be a jerk. I have had a couple of disabled veterans in my family and am a veteran myself, though I'm not disabled.

People unfamiliar with service dogs will naturally treat them like any other dog and try to talk "doggie" to them. If the owner responds with some uncalled for negative reaction, such a mess as this is what would be expected. It doesn't sound like the guys were kicking the dog or any such thing as that. On the contrary they were probably being friendly to it and the owner went ballistic. If she's got a legitimate mental problem this could well be a "no fault" incident.

Of course service dogs should be left alone. Most people do not understand that. "Please don't distract him, he's a service dog" is an appropriate response. Screaming at a person with kind intentions is not an appropriate response.

Mikey,

You nailed this early. IMO, the two guys were innocent in their intentions by merely wanting to pet the dog, not realizing it was a service dog and the woman was a veteran with PTSD. For whatever reason her PTSD was triggered causing her to go off on the players and the players went off on her in response (which was wrong on the player's part). PTSD is a terrible thing and I am giving her the benefit of the doubt for her actions. I am also giving the two football players the benefit of the doubt for simply being ignorant of the situation. IMO, this was a misunderstanding (regarding intent/actions on both sides) that escalated.

Gus has apologized and the players want to apologize. That should be the end of it. I will admit, the more the PTSD vet and her family make this a media thing after those apologies make me feel less and less sympathy for her though.

wde

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WarEagle84 Founding Father

WarEagle84 0

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One thing most people seem to be overlooking is that there was nothing outwardly obvious to a passer-by that she was a) a veteran or B) disabled. Those two elements are played up in most of the stories I've read to try to generate sympathy for her as the victim, but none of the people interacting with her were aware of either.

By all accounts the dog did not have any kind of vest or other obvious indication that it was a service dog. I learned long ago through a blind friend that you don't interact with a service dog when it is "on duty", but most people don't have that knowledge, and I would expect anyone using a service dog to be used to explaining the rules. At the very least she should have a flier or laminated card she could show people if she got tired of (or couldn't handle) the interactions. Most people would respect that.

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FoundationEagle Founding Father

FoundationEagle 637

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By multiple accounts, the girl yelled at the players for petting her dog, as expected the players may have had a less than positive response. Now this girl is claiming harassment and bullying. Apparently she has mental issues due to an incident in the past (which no one knows the details of and could have possibly another issue just like this one). She was in the military very briefly but is not a vet. She never went to a warzone...Now she PTSD and has to have a dog to help her in public be a functioning person yet she goes to a very large University.

(1). Doesn't add up...had to leave the military out of fear for her safety but feels safer at a large college campus?

(2). Claims to have emotional problems due to fear yet hangs out by herself in the Haley center with an unmarked service dog?

(3). What's the real story behind her leaving the military? Was it similar to this?

(4). Her sister is obviously a manipulative person and is pushing an agenda (are we scamming for a lawsuit?)

Way too many details of this are way out of the ordinary and I'm simply smelling a rat.

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alexava Founding Father

alexava 6,973

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according to the link provided earlier in this thread, it seems the dogs senses when the patient gets emotional and starts licking them to take their mind off the negative emotions. not kidding.

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aujeff11 Founding Father

aujeff11 6,243

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What exactly is the service dog for if it didn't remove her from the situation after the first couple incidents? I'm asking because I can't imagine what else the dog could do for her.

It is a therapy dog. Pretty much to help comfort the PTSD victim. It is not like a k9 unit that is trained to bite at the juggler or the private parts. I was fortunate enough to witness a practical exercise involving K9 units of the Bulgarian Army attack men in padded, sumo-wrestler type suits. It was awesome.
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Texan4Auburn Founding Father

Texan4Auburn 1,626

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By multiple accounts, the girl yelled at the players for petting her dog, as expected the players may have had a less than positive response. Now this girl is claiming harassment and bullying. Apparently she has mental issues due to an incident in the past (which no one knows the details of and could have possibly another issue just like this one). She was in the military very briefly but is not a vet. She never went to a warzone...Now she PTSD and has to have a dog to help her in public be a functioning person yet she goes to a very large University.

(1). Doesn't add up...had to leave the military out of fear for her safety but feels safer at a large college campus?

(2). Claims to have emotional problems due to fear yet hangs out by herself in the Haley center with an unmarked service dog?

(3). What's the real story behind her leaving the military? Was it similar to this?

(4). Her sister is obviously a manipulative person and is pushing an agenda (are we scamming for a lawsuit?)

Way too many details of this are way out of the ordinary and I'm simply smelling a rat.

If the sexual trauma occurred due to her service then she is a vet. Just like an individual that is injured in service due to a training accident.

1) Guessing the sexual harassment that occurred in the military is more like raped by her fellow soldiers. Thus does not feel safe in the environment that the event occurred in. (Nothing out of the ordinary there)

2) I had severe anxiety/depression for a period. Those type of things do not exactly make you the life of the party and make you very guarded. Ya it leaves you isolated regardless of where you are. I will vouch for her there. I spent time in buildings on campus sitting alone because of it. Was just trying to make it through the day and class. (Nothing out of the ordinary there).

3) Most likely left the military due to the emotional trauma of being raped. Most likely they encouraged her to leave, US military has a history of covering up rape in it's ranks. That is from 4 members of my family that are current officers in the military. Yes all of them have been deployed to war zones, two are female.(Business as usual there).

4) I would agree the sister is not helping the issue. They should let the Office of Accessibility handle this and the university lawyer that is charged with handling the discrimination issues on campus. I have worked with the Office of Accessibility myself and they are very good and very fair. They also do not take people using disabilities lightly and to be a part of the program they require a great amount of documentation from professionals. Documentation that they will verify.

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Texan4Auburn Founding Father

Texan4Auburn 1,626

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What exactly is the service dog for if it didn't remove her from the situation after the first couple incidents? I'm asking because I can't imagine what else the dog could do for her.

It is a therapy dog. Pretty much to help comfort the PTSD victim. It is not like a k9 unit that is trained to bite at the juggler or the private parts. I was fortunate enough to witness a practical exercise involving K9 units of the Bulgarian Army attack men in padded, sumo-wrestler type suits. It was awesome.

They are amazing. When I lived by Ft. Sill I saw them training them in attacks like you did and the agility/obstacle course they had for the dogs also.

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Texan4Auburn Founding Father

Texan4Auburn 1,626

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according to the link provided earlier in this thread, it seems the dogs senses when the patient gets emotional and starts licking them to take their mind off the negative emotions. not kidding.

Story that was done on her and the dog earlier.

http://www.wrbl.com/story/26717154/veteran-with-ptsd-takes-classes-at-auburn-with-help-of-service-dog

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gman87 Mentor

gman87 398

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By multiple accounts, the girl yelled at the players for petting her dog, as expected the players may have had a less than positive response. Now this girl is claiming harassment and bullying. Apparently she has mental issues due to an incident in the past (which no one knows the details of and could have possibly another issue just like this one). She was in the military very briefly but is not a vet. She never went to a warzone...Now she PTSD and has to have a dog to help her in public be a functioning person yet she goes to a very large University.

(1). Doesn't add up...had to leave the military out of fear for her safety but feels safer at a large college campus?

(2). Claims to have emotional problems due to fear yet hangs out by herself in the Haley center with an unmarked service dog?

(3). What's the real story behind her leaving the military? Was it similar to this?

(4). Her sister is obviously a manipulative person and is pushing an agenda (are we scamming for a lawsuit?)

Way too many details of this are way out of the ordinary and I'm simply smelling a rat.

If the sexual trauma occurred due to her service then she is a vet. Just like an individual that is injured in service due to a training accident.

1) Guessing the sexual harassment that occurred in the military is more like raped by her fellow soldiers. Thus does not feel safe in the environment that the event occurred in. (Nothing out of the ordinary there)

2) I had severe anxiety/depression for a period. Those type of things do not exactly make you the life of the party and make you very guarded. Ya it leaves you isolated regardless of where you are. I will vouch for her there. I spent time in buildings on campus sitting alone because of it. Was just trying to make it through the day and class. (Nothing out of the ordinary there).

3) Most likely left the military due to the emotional trauma of being raped. Most likely they encouraged her to leave, US military has a history of covering up rape in it's ranks. That is from 4 members of my family that are current officers in the military. Yes all of them have been deployed to war zones, two are female.(Business as usual there).

4) I would agree the sister is not helping the issue. They should let the Office of Accessibility handle this and the university lawyer that is charged with handling the discrimination issues on campus. I have worked with the Office of Accessibility myself and they are very good and very fair. They also do not take people using disabilities lightly and to be a part of the program they require a great amount of documentation from professionals. Documentation that they will verify.

Sexual harassment and sexual assualt are usually 2 very different things. where assault might indicate rape, harassment does not.
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AdamsHouseCat Enthusiast

AdamsHouseCat 43

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By multiple accounts, the girl yelled at the players for petting her dog, as expected the players may have had a less than positive response. Now this girl is claiming harassment and bullying. Apparently she has mental issues due to an incident in the past (which no one knows the details of and could have possibly another issue just like this one). She was in the military very briefly but is not a vet. She never went to a warzone...Now she PTSD and has to have a dog to help her in public be a functioning person yet she goes to a very large University.

(1). Doesn't add up...had to leave the military out of fear for her safety but feels safer at a large college campus?

(2). Claims to have emotional problems due to fear yet hangs out by herself in the Haley center with an unmarked service dog?

(3). What's the real story behind her leaving the military? Was it similar to this?

(4). Her sister is obviously a manipulative person and is pushing an agenda (are we scamming for a lawsuit?)

Way too many details of this are way out of the ordinary and I'm simply smelling a rat.

Please site these "multiple accounts" I am aware of only two.

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alexava Founding Father

alexava 6,973

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By multiple accounts, the girl yelled at the players for petting her dog, as expected the players may have had a less than positive response. Now this girl is claiming harassment and bullying. Apparently she has mental issues due to an incident in the past (which no one knows the details of and could have possibly another issue just like this one). She was in the military very briefly but is not a vet. She never went to a warzone...Now she PTSD and has to have a dog to help her in public be a functioning person yet she goes to a very large University.

(1). Doesn't add up...had to leave the military out of fear for her safety but feels safer at a large college campus?

(2). Claims to have emotional problems due to fear yet hangs out by herself in the Haley center with an unmarked service dog?

(3). What's the real story behind her leaving the military? Was it similar to this?

(4). Her sister is obviously a manipulative person and is pushing an agenda (are we scamming for a lawsuit?)

Way too many details of this are way out of the ordinary and I'm simply smelling a rat.

Please site these "multiple accounts" I am aware of only two.

multiple actually means more than one......
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AdamsHouseCat Enthusiast

AdamsHouseCat 43

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By multiple accounts, the girl yelled at the players for petting her dog, as expected the players may have had a less than positive response. Now this girl is claiming harassment and bullying. Apparently she has mental issues due to an incident in the past (which no one knows the details of and could have possibly another issue just like this one). She was in the military very briefly but is not a vet. She never went to a warzone...Now she PTSD and has to have a dog to help her in public be a functioning person yet she goes to a very large University.

(1). Doesn't add up...had to leave the military out of fear for her safety but feels safer at a large college campus?

(2). Claims to have emotional problems due to fear yet hangs out by herself in the Haley center with an unmarked service dog?

(3). What's the real story behind her leaving the military? Was it similar to this?

(4). Her sister is obviously a manipulative person and is pushing an agenda (are we scamming for a lawsuit?)

Way too many details of this are way out of the ordinary and I'm simply smelling a rat.

Please site these "multiple accounts" I am aware of only two.

multiple actually means more than one......

I have seen two accounts. The victims account, and the anonymous Reddit poster. Where are the multiple accounts?

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wareagle13 Mentor

wareagle13 88

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By multiple accounts, the girl yelled at the players for petting her dog, as expected the players may have had a less than positive response. Now this girl is claiming harassment and bullying. Apparently she has mental issues due to an incident in the past (which no one knows the details of and could have possibly another issue just like this one). She was in the military very briefly but is not a vet. She never went to a warzone...Now she PTSD and has to have a dog to help her in public be a functioning person yet she goes to a very large University.

(1). Doesn't add up...had to leave the military out of fear for her safety but feels safer at a large college campus?

(2). Claims to have emotional problems due to fear yet hangs out by herself in the Haley center with an unmarked service dog?

(3). What's the real story behind her leaving the military? Was it similar to this?

(4). Her sister is obviously a manipulative person and is pushing an agenda (are we scamming for a lawsuit?)

Way too many details of this are way out of the ordinary and I'm simply smelling a rat.

Please site these "multiple accounts" I am aware of only two.

multiple actually means more than one......

I have seen two accounts. The victims account, and the anonymous Reddit poster. Where are the multiple accounts?

I saw an account of someone posting on yikyak auburn. Their story corroborated the reddit poster, saying the woman was the antagonist in the whole ordeal, and that the football players only got upset after the woman blew up at them. The poster said they did not harass her, just called her out for acting "b*tchy" and walked away.

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gAUlf Founding Father

gAUlf 1

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By multiple accounts, the girl yelled at the players for petting her dog, as expected the players may have had a less than positive response. Now this girl is claiming harassment and bullying. Apparently she has mental issues due to an incident in the past (which no one knows the details of and could have possibly another issue just like this one). She was in the military very briefly but is not a vet. She never went to a warzone...Now she PTSD and has to have a dog to help her in public be a functioning person yet she goes to a very large University.

(1). Doesn't add up...had to leave the military out of fear for her safety but feels safer at a large college campus?

(2). Claims to have emotional problems due to fear yet hangs out by herself in the Haley center with an unmarked service dog?

(3). What's the real story behind her leaving the military? Was it similar to this?

(4). Her sister is obviously a manipulative person and is pushing an agenda (are we scamming for a lawsuit?)

Way too many details of this are way out of the ordinary and I'm simply smelling a rat.

If the sexual trauma occurred due to her service then she is a vet. Just like an individual that is injured in service due to a training accident.

1) Guessing the sexual harassment that occurred in the military is more like raped by her fellow soldiers. Thus does not feel safe in the environment that the event occurred in. (Nothing out of the ordinary there)

2) I had severe anxiety/depression for a period. Those type of things do not exactly make you the life of the party and make you very guarded. Ya it leaves you isolated regardless of where you are. I will vouch for her there. I spent time in buildings on campus sitting alone because of it. Was just trying to make it through the day and class. (Nothing out of the ordinary there).

3) Most likely left the military due to the emotional trauma of being raped. Most likely they encouraged her to leave, US military has a history of covering up rape in it's ranks. That is from 4 members of my family that are current officers in the military. Yes all of them have been deployed to war zones, two are female.(Business as usual there).

4) I would agree the sister is not helping the issue. They should let the Office of Accessibility handle this and the university lawyer that is charged with handling the discrimination issues on campus. I have worked with the Office of Accessibility myself and they are very good and very fair. They also do not take people using disabilities lightly and to be a part of the program they require a great amount of documentation from professionals. Documentation that they will verify.

Sexual harassment and sexual assualt are usually 2 very different things. where assault might indicate rape, harassment does not.

^This^

Got this from one of the post on reddit:

Per her own twitter, she "took s*** on a daily basis" for marrying a Turkish Muslim. That was her "harassment".

As for being disabled, she sought disability for 6 different reasons (within 6 months of enlistment)

Here is what she was declared unfit for duty for: Looks like she's getting 70% of her pay.

Now that I look at it, it went by pretty fast. I got more than I expected. I'm not completely disabled, so in my mind I don't deserve any more.

18 Apr - Informed of MEB action 24 Apr - Met with PEBLO and VA rep 11 May - VA Xrays 12 May - VA Physical 22 May - VA Mental Health 11 Jun - Signed NARSUM 21 Aug - VA Physical #2 24 Aug - Ebenefits status change to "Pending Decision Approval" 12 Sep - Recieved Ratings! 10% DOD 50% VA

DOD: 10% Pilonidal cyst w/ painful scarring

VA: 10% Pilonidal cyst w/ painful scarring 10% Bilateral Plantar Fasciitis​ 10% Lumbar strain and scoliosis​ 30% Adjustment disorder w/ mixed anxiety and depression​

http://www.pebforum.com/site/search/9942755/

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blitzingrhino55 Explorer

blitzingrhino55 0

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From all of the reports and inside information I have received, I have no doubt that there was a confrontation. I also do not believe that the 2 football players harassed the woman. The players did whistle to get the dogs attention and the woman rudely told them, not asked them, to stop messing with the dog. Remember, the dog had no vest on. After the woman's rude remarks to the players, the players gave kind of a "whatever" type response and went on their way. No profanity was used. Because of the woman's PTSD, I believe the whistling set her off and not the remarks from the players. I have no doubt that she is sick, but I think she was the aggressor and in her mind, this was a lot bigger of a confrontation than it really was. The players had no way of knowing what would set her off and should not be punished. I feel for the woman and what she is going through. The sister, however, can take a hike.

From what I heard from someone that overheard the confrontation most of that is correct except for how you described the reaction of the players. The did cuss at her and call her a bitch (well they could have been talking to the dog but I doubt that). That is not an appropriate response but it not something that warrants them being vilified. If they had said this to a woman who didn't have PTSD we would never have heard about it. This is just a perfect storm of bad luck and bad choices for everyone involved.

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diretiger Enthusiast

diretiger 0

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By multiple accounts, the girl yelled at the players for petting her dog, as expected the players may have had a less than positive response. Now this girl is claiming harassment and bullying. Apparently she has mental issues due to an incident in the past (which no one knows the details of and could have possibly another issue just like this one). She was in the military very briefly but is not a vet. She never went to a warzone...Now she PTSD and has to have a dog to help her in public be a functioning person yet she goes to a very large University.

(1). Doesn't add up...had to leave the military out of fear for her safety but feels safer at a large college campus?

(2). Claims to have emotional problems due to fear yet hangs out by herself in the Haley center with an unmarked service dog?

(3). What's the real story behind her leaving the military? Was it similar to this?

(4). Her sister is obviously a manipulative person and is pushing an agenda (are we scamming for a lawsuit?)

Way too many details of this are way out of the ordinary and I'm simply smelling a rat.

If the sexual trauma occurred due to her service then she is a vet. Just like an individual that is injured in service due to a training accident.

1) Guessing the sexual harassment that occurred in the military is more like raped by her fellow soldiers. Thus does not feel safe in the environment that the event occurred in. (Nothing out of the ordinary there)

2) I had severe anxiety/depression for a period. Those type of things do not exactly make you the life of the party and make you very guarded. Ya it leaves you isolated regardless of where you are. I will vouch for her there. I spent time in buildings on campus sitting alone because of it. Was just trying to make it through the day and class. (Nothing out of the ordinary there).

3) Most likely left the military due to the emotional trauma of being raped. Most likely they encouraged her to leave, US military has a history of covering up rape in it's ranks. That is from 4 members of my family that are current officers in the military. Yes all of them have been deployed to war zones, two are female.(Business as usual there).

4) I would agree the sister is not helping the issue. They should let the Office of Accessibility handle this and the university lawyer that is charged with handling the discrimination issues on campus. I have worked with the Office of Accessibility myself and they are very good and very fair. They also do not take people using disabilities lightly and to be a part of the program they require a great amount of documentation from professionals. Documentation that they will verify.

Sexual harassment and sexual assualt are usually 2 very different things. where assault might indicate rape, harassment does not.

^This^

Got this from one of the post on reddit:

Per her own twitter, she "took s*** on a daily basis" for marrying a Turkish Muslim. That was her "harassment".

As for being disabled, she sought disability for 6 different reasons (within 6 months of enlistment)

Here is what she was declared unfit for duty for: Looks like she's getting 70% of her pay.

Now that I look at it, it went by pretty fast. I got more than I expected. I'm not completely disabled, so in my mind I don't deserve any more.

18 Apr - Informed of MEB action 24 Apr - Met with PEBLO and VA rep 11 May - VA Xrays 12 May - VA Physical 22 May - VA Mental Health 11 Jun - Signed NARSUM 21 Aug - VA Physical #2 24 Aug - Ebenefits status change to "Pending Decision Approval" 12 Sep - Recieved Ratings! 10% DOD 50% VA

DOD: 10% Pilonidal cyst w/ painful scarring

VA: 10% Pilonidal cyst w/ painful scarring 10% Bilateral Plantar Fasciitis​ 10% Lumbar strain and scoliosis​ 30% Adjustment disorder w/ mixed anxiety and depression​

http://www.pebforum....search/9942755/

If she really had to get a therapy dog because people made fun of her husband then this woman has no business being in public. Also disappointing that she is receiving so much while people whose lives were destroyed by combat so often get shuffled around the system until it is too late
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blitzingrhino55 Explorer

blitzingrhino55 0

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My GF who was there when this happened said one of our guy's did lash back at her after she yelled at him for asking why he shouldn't whistle at her dog. These students did not know what the dog was for as it had no id what so ever they were kind of humiliated after she made the scene in public because they probably didn't know that she had PTSD either. All parties should have handled this differently but unfortunately they didn't so we have this. let's hope these guys grow from this experience. I feel this young lady but sharpening your knife on two guys just because they play football is not fair just like her disease is not fair but life isn't fair!!!

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Randman5000 Founding Father

Randman5000 4,226

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From here, this seems like a crock of overraeacting BS and media dogpiling over nothing. Some are trying to profit by overstating the situation.

"@SEC Help us fight the bullying @CoachGusMalzahn allows players to humiliate and disrespect veterans #AuburnTigersOnNotice" I'll also say this statement is rather damning. CGM "ALLOWS"? This a new policy I'm unaware of?

This story stinks of too many cooks.

Glad someone else brought this up. It's what I was talking about earlier. It's just too full of rhetoric. Someone is trying to sway opinion, and not simply state facts. Gus isn't allowing this. It also implies there is bullying taking place. If she had a legitimate issue, take it up with the appropriate parties in a mature, productive manner. Rhetorical tweets are childish and reek of either needing attention or attempting to slander.

I read the tweet but didn't comprehend. Do not turn this into something bigger than it should be. Gus was not there telling the guys to do it. He will take care of it. Really behind that that statement.

She should offer an apology to Gus for saying he allows that.

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Tigermike Founding Father

Tigermike 3,025

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Just once I wish it was possible for some people on this board to reserve judgement on players until they know all the facts. You would think people would learn by now.

Just once

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Texan4Auburn Founding Father

Texan4Auburn 1,626

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By multiple accounts, the girl yelled at the players for petting her dog, as expected the players may have had a less than positive response. Now this girl is claiming harassment and bullying. Apparently she has mental issues due to an incident in the past (which no one knows the details of and could have possibly another issue just like this one). She was in the military very briefly but is not a vet. She never went to a warzone...Now she PTSD and has to have a dog to help her in public be a functioning person yet she goes to a very large University.

(1). Doesn't add up...had to leave the military out of fear for her safety but feels safer at a large college campus?

(2). Claims to have emotional problems due to fear yet hangs out by herself in the Haley center with an unmarked service dog?

(3). What's the real story behind her leaving the military? Was it similar to this?

(4). Her sister is obviously a manipulative person and is pushing an agenda (are we scamming for a lawsuit?)

Way too many details of this are way out of the ordinary and I'm simply smelling a rat.

If the sexual trauma occurred due to her service then she is a vet. Just like an individual that is injured in service due to a training accident.

1) Guessing the sexual harassment that occurred in the military is more like raped by her fellow soldiers. Thus does not feel safe in the environment that the event occurred in. (Nothing out of the ordinary there)

2) I had severe anxiety/depression for a period. Those type of things do not exactly make you the life of the party and make you very guarded. Ya it leaves you isolated regardless of where you are. I will vouch for her there. I spent time in buildings on campus sitting alone because of it. Was just trying to make it through the day and class. (Nothing out of the ordinary there).

3) Most likely left the military due to the emotional trauma of being raped. Most likely they encouraged her to leave, US military has a history of covering up rape in it's ranks. That is from 4 members of my family that are current officers in the military. Yes all of them have been deployed to war zones, two are female.(Business as usual there).

4) I would agree the sister is not helping the issue. They should let the Office of Accessibility handle this and the university lawyer that is charged with handling the discrimination issues on campus. I have worked with the Office of Accessibility myself and they are very good and very fair. They also do not take people using disabilities lightly and to be a part of the program they require a great amount of documentation from professionals. Documentation that they will verify.

Sexual harassment and sexual assualt are usually 2 very different things. where assault might indicate rape, harassment does not.

Then sexual assualt then. I apologize for choosing the incorrect word.

Ozyurt is an Air Force veteran who suffers from post-traumatic stress disorder stemming from sexual assault during her three years in the military.

http://www.al.com/auburnfootball/index.ssf/2015/02/gus_malzahn_apologizes_to_fema.html

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