doc4aday 1,887 Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 On 6/28/2016 at 0:11 PM, TitanTiger said: I don't understand this. Cam wasn't a finished product coming to Auburn. He matured into a great QB and he didn't do that on his own. Yes he had freakish physical talent, but he also became better at a lot of things under Gus. Nick was an INT machine in JUCO and hadn't played QB at UGA at all. He was never going to be an outstanding pocket passer, but he was a much better QB by the end of his time at Auburn than the beginning. Sean White has no where near the raw talent of those two, but has shown amazing poise and skills. QBs are a hard thing to predict. I've posted before that this same sort of thing happens other places. Here's the 4-star or higher QBs signed by Alabama since Saban arrived that have failed or yet to produce: Star Jackson Philip Sims Cooper Bateman David Cornwell Blake Barnett He inherited John Parker Wilson and Greg McElroy. Thus far the only highly rated HS QB recruited by Saban that has panned out was AJ McCarron. Jake Coker was a transfer and he couldn't even beat out Blake Sims who was serviceable but couldn't even make a practice squad in the CFL at QB. Look at LSU in the same timeframe: Jarrett Lee Chris Garrett Russell Shepard (5-star) Zach Lee Jarrad Randall Zach Mettenberger Anthony Jennings Hayden Rettig Brandon Harris And does anyone remember 5-star Ryan Perriloux a couple of years before that? Mettenberger was the only one to put up any decent stats. The rest have been mediocre to terrible, under multiple coordinators/QB coaches some of whom had great track records with QBs prior to LSU. Under Gus/Lashlee, we've had two successes in Cam and Nick. And the only other top rated guy is JJ who has been a bust. Trotter and Moseley were 2-3-star projects who also suffered from a huge talent drain on offense after 2010. I just don't buy this notion that we "have nobody capable of teaching them on staff." I do not think any QB would ever flourish at LSU with the horrible offensive scheme they have. You could send all of the 5 star QBs over the past 10 years to LSU, and they all would have wound up working the graveyard shift at McDonalds instead of a career in the NFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburn4ever 1,266 Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 2 questions. Has Auburn ever signed a true 5* QB before? Are we recruiting any 5* QB's for 2017? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird 60,440 Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 27 minutes ago, auburn4ever said: 2 questions. Has Auburn ever signed a true 5* QB before? Are we recruiting any 5* QB's for 2017? Click here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellitor 33,076 Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 6 hours ago, auburn4ever said: 2 questions. Has Auburn ever signed a true 5* QB before? Are we recruiting any 5* QB's for 2017? Cam should have been if Scout.com didn't suck so much. Rivals had him as a 5*, ESPN was not rating jucos yet, & 247 was not around then. Oh and Jason Campbell was a 5* too per the composite which means even though Rivals & Scout rated him a 5* in 2000 even though their public records don't go beyond 2002. Both did get started in 1999. Not sure why they don't have public records for their 1st 3 years. Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trout54 55 Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 E? you going fishing this am too? otherwise, get some sleep brother! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellitor 33,076 Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 3 minutes ago, trout54 said: E? you going fishing this am too? otherwise, get some sleep brother! lol Went to bed at 7 last night. Worked in the hot sun yesterday on campus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUApostle 7,651 Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 On August 13, 2016 at 4:17 AM, ellitor said: Cam should have been if Scout.com didn't suck so much. Rivals had him as a 5*, ESPN was not rating jucos yet, & 247 was not around then. Oh and Jason Campbell was a 5* too per the composite which means even though Rivals & Scout rated him a 5* in 2000 even though their public records don't go beyond 2002. Both did get started in 1999. Not sure why they don't have public records for their 1st 3 years. Link Times were pretty tumultuous in message board world back then. There were several big site changes around that time...names changed, companies got bought and sold, new software updates that deleted old info. Somewhere around 99 is when ITAT and Rivals (the bunker?) had a big split. I think Mark was with Jeff Lee prior...but my memory is a bit fuzzy, It was a bit of a wild west. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunInRed 16,370 Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 #Auburn coach Gus Malzahn is here in Dawson, Ga., to watch 4-star commit Tray Bishop. pic.twitter.com/utDp1hx8F8— Keith Niebuhr (@Keith247Sports) September 30, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottsboroAuburnFan 462 Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 heard he balled out last night. Any info??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc4aday 1,887 Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Kyle Frazier was a 5 star QB from somewhere in Arkansas. I wish the star rating system would die the death that it has deserved for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellitor 33,076 Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 20 hours ago, ScottsboroAuburnFan said: heard he balled out last night. Any info??? Commit stats get published on Tuesdays by Auburn Undercover for free. Check there then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburn4ever 1,266 Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 I was talking about Auburn signing a 5 * QB right out of high school and not out of some junior college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAG 33,957 Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 On 10/1/2016 at 9:29 PM, doc4aday said: Kyle Frazier was a 5 star QB from somewhere in Arkansas. I wish the star rating system would die the death that it has deserved for years. Played at Shiloh Christian. I am always skeptical of Arkansas Athletes though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McLoofus 35,182 Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 Doc, the "star rating system"- i.e. the concept of independent recruiting analysis and the resultant scoring and rankings- has been a fairly accurate predictor of the success of CFB teams and success in the NFL for individual players. Actually, a very accurate predictor with regards to the former. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc4aday 1,887 Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 10 hours ago, McLoofus said: Doc, the "star rating system"- i.e. the concept of independent recruiting analysis and the resultant scoring and rankings- has been a fairly accurate predictor of the success of CFB teams and success in the NFL for individual players. Actually, a very accurate predictor with regards to the former. It never fails when we have a 5 star recruit who commits to us winds up as a 4 star in many cases. This never happens to a bammer commit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellitor 33,076 Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 1 hour ago, doc4aday said: It never fails when we have a 5 star recruit who commits to us winds up as a 4 star in many cases. This never happens to a bammer commit The recruiting sites evaluate over 3,000 senior football players each year. They are going to miss on many numerically. Also remember for most of them they evaluate what they see on the field. They don't get a chance often times to find out what is in a recruit's heart or head. Still however if you look at Team recruiting rankings collectively as a whole in terms of winning big they do get it right often times. For example every national champion and runner-up in the recruiting site era has had at least two top 12 recruiting classes going into the year of their championship game Run. Often times it's at least three classes or 4 classes in the top 12. Lastly in terms of relative percentage the number of 5-star recruits that make the pros is higher than the four stars and the four stars percentage-wise is relatively higher than the 3 stars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc4aday 1,887 Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 On 10/8/2016 at 0:44 AM, ellitor said: The recruiting sites evaluate over 3,000 senior football players each year. They are going to miss on many numerically. Also remember for most of them they evaluate what they see on the field. They don't get a chance often times to find out what is in a recruit's heart or head. Still however if you look at Team recruiting rankings collectively as a whole in terms of winning big they do get it right often times. For example every national champion and runner-up in the recruiting site era has had at least two top 12 recruiting classes going into the year of their championship game Run. Often times it's at least three classes or 4 classes in the top 12. Lastly in terms of relative percentage the number of 5-star recruits that make the pros is higher than the four stars and the four stars percentage-wise is relatively higher than the 3 stars. Thanks Ellitor! I always know that I am going to get an honest and accurate response from you my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuburnNTexas 7,133 Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 On 10/7/2016 at 11:44 PM, ellitor said: The recruiting sites evaluate over 3,000 senior football players each year. They are going to miss on many numerically. Also remember for most of them they evaluate what they see on the field. They don't get a chance often times to find out what is in a recruit's heart or head. Still however if you look at Team recruiting rankings collectively as a whole in terms of winning big they do get it right often times. For example every national champion and runner-up in the recruiting site era has had at least two top 12 recruiting classes going into the year of their championship game Run. Often times it's at least three classes or 4 classes in the top 12. Lastly in terms of relative percentage the number of 5-star recruits that make the pros is higher than the four stars and the four stars percentage-wise is relatively higher than the 3 stars. Ellitor and others have mentioned this multiple times when you look at one individual player the ranking are not always that accurate the 5* flop or the 2* who goes on to be all pro but when you look at it overall the rankings do matter as shown by the teams that win and the percentage of 5* who make it big versus 3* who make it big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFDTiger80 790 Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 4 hours ago, AuburnNTexas said: Ellitor and others have mentioned this multiple times when you look at one individual player the ranking are not always that accurate the 5* flop or the 2* who goes on to be all pro but when you look at it overall the rankings do matter as shown by the teams that win and the percentage of 5* who make it big versus 3* who make it big. Sammie Coats may be an example of this. He may have been a 3* at best in HS. He is having a potential All Pro year for the Steelers. Yesterday he have over 100yds receiving and 2 TD's. So happy for him. He is a terrific guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellitor 33,076 Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 15 hours ago, JFDTiger80 said: Sammie Coats may be an example of this. He may have been a 3* at best in HS. He is having a potential All Pro year for the Steelers. Yesterday he have over 100yds receiving and 2 TD's. So happy for him. He is a terrific guy. Sammie also didn't do the camp circuit for site evaluators to be able to see his size, strength, and speed in person. If he had I think he would have been a 4-star easily in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFDTiger80 790 Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 2 hours ago, ellitor said: Sammie also didn't the camp circuit for site evaluators to be able to see his size, strength, and speed in person. If he had I think he would have been a 4-star easily in my opinion. Agreed. Coates still looks big in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GwillMac6 20,656 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 @ellitor what is with all these unofficials to Georgia all of sudden? I do NOT like this at all! I thought with the way both our seasons are going he would become even more solid to AU. I also thought florida was our biggest competition to hold on to him and not georgia? Freaking kirby bowl cut.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McLoofus 35,182 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 8 hours ago, GwillMac6 said: @ellitor what is with all these unofficials to Georgia all of sudden? I do NOT like this at all! I thought with the way both our seasons are going he would become even more solid to AU. I also thought florida was our biggest competition to hold on to him and not georgia? Freaking kirby bowl cut.......... I wonder if the offensive explosion the last 3 games is changing the size of the fish we can go after... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GwillMac6 20,656 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 4 hours ago, McLoofus said: I wonder if the offensive explosion the last 3 games is changing the size of the fish we can go after... Well IDK about you but I never really expected him to ever play QB at AU. More like a wink wink kind of jason smith deal there. He is a high 4 star on every site besides rivals where hes a 3 star. He has the potential to be a awesome DB and thats why bowl cut and georgia want him so bad. Good point though on the bigger fish! I would venture to say very few schools close as well as WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ALWAYS DO!!! WOOOOO!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McLoofus 35,182 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 7 minutes ago, GwillMac6 said: Well IDK about you but I never really expected him to ever play QB at you. More like a wink wink kind of jason smith deal there. He is a high 4 star on every site besides rivals where hes a 3 star. He has the potential to be a awesome DB and thats why bowl cut and georgia want him so bad. Good point though on the bigger fish! I would venture to say very few schools close as well as WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ALWAYS DO!!! WOOOOO!!! Good point about DB. Who knows. I hope his commitment sticks, dude looks crazy athletic. WOOOO!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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