2017 4* DB Tray Bishop (UGA 1/1/17)

[TitanTiger 20,472]

not saying they suck, but the perception being peddled by those recruiting against us are. As you have pointed out, there has really only been one HS QB that they have coached, but, to that end, JJ has been a bust to this point. That point is being hammered and many recruits are listening to it. Gus has to develop a HS QB and prove it on the field to stop the avalanche of negative perception recruiting.

I get that, but I'm questioning why it's the perception, especially considering the QB track record at Alabama, LSU, and especially A&M lately. How does that tag stick to Gus but not to Sumlin? How is it that only one highly rated QB Saban recruited out of HS has done anything at Alabama, but Gus can't develop a QB?

With the recent stretch of good QBs at Ohio State, I could understand if we lost to Meyer. But how in hell does A&M get to overcome that QB bust stench but not us?

Its the whole say it long enough and loud enough idea. When many reputable coaches recite the same montra it begins to snowball. We've had the same issue with LBs with regards to AU can't coach up LBs.

So for some reason they're all ganging up on Auburn but no one's saying the same things about Sumlin's QB track record or that of Les Miles?

I believe Sumlin has escaped the ganging up because of Manziel

One phenom makes all the difference, even if he's followed by a string of 4 and 5-star catastrophes?

. I also think he is escaping from it because there is a thought that there are cultural problems bigger than quarterback development that contributed to the demise of their last two quarterbacks, not solely from a lack of development.

Sounds like we need to crank up the propaganda machine ourselves then.

Les Miles and Saban are defensive coaches; their OC's should receive more offensive-performance criticisms than they do. Malzahn is considered an offensive wiz. Malzahn has his own offense, even his own book about his offense so he receives more scrutiny for it.

LSU should be tarred as the place good QBs (and their coaches) go to die.

And really, you could make the same point about dozens of big time programs. As I said, QBs are the hardest position to project from HS to college. There are high profile misses - strings of them - everywhere.

[metafour 4,968]

Les Miles and Saban are defensive coaches; their OC's should receive more offensive-performance criticisms than they do. Malzahn is considered an offensive wiz. Malzahn has his own offense, even his own book about his offense so he receives more scrutiny for it.

This. When you are labelled as an "offensive genius" and you can't even field a QB worth a sh*t, its going to be an easy target. Saban and Miles can at least sell QBs on the fact that their offense will expose them to schemes/routes that NFL teams are interested in. Its a double whammy for Malzahn as his offense clearly isn't a "this is what you'll be doing in the NFL" audition tape.

[Altima 200]

not saying they suck, but the perception being peddled by those recruiting against us are. As you have pointed out, there has really only been one HS QB that they have coached, but, to that end, JJ has been a bust to this point. That point is being hammered and many recruits are listening to it. Gus has to develop a HS QB and prove it on the field to stop the avalanche of negative perception recruiting.

I get that, but I'm questioning why it's the perception, especially considering the QB track record at Alabama, LSU, and especially A&M lately. How does that tag stick to Gus but not to Sumlin? How is it that only one highly rated QB Saban recruited out of HS has done anything at Alabama, but Gus can't develop a QB?

With the recent stretch of good QBs at Ohio State, I could understand if we lost to Meyer. But how in hell does A&M get to overcome that QB bust stench but not us?

Its the whole say it long enough and loud enough idea. When many reputable coaches recite the same montra it begins to snowball. We've had the same issue with LBs with regards to AU can't coach up LBs.

So for some reason they're all ganging up on Auburn but no one's saying the same things about Sumlin's QB track record or that of Les Miles?

They ganged up on AU on this one. WTH does Miles have to do with anything related to Mond? Saban hurt his biggest rival. Urban has a hard on for AU. Sumlin got his QB that he just started to heavily recruit after missing on his top guy. This isn't rocket science.

They go after Malzahn, because frankly, he's an easy target.

Since 2009 all these coaches have heard is how Gus is some offensive genius... which isn't exactly true. Coaches have egos... they turn their nose up at that kind of thing.

Add to that the brief success that AU has had with Cam and Nick, it too doesn't sit to well.

Basically saying, the only reason Gus teams has been good, is with transfer QB's.

and, Bam... there's your negarecruiting pitch.

[thaitopher 807]

not saying they suck, but the perception being peddled by those recruiting against us are. As you have pointed out, there has really only been one HS QB that they have coached, but, to that end, JJ has been a bust to this point. That point is being hammered and many recruits are listening to it. Gus has to develop a HS QB and prove it on the field to stop the avalanche of negative perception recruiting.

I get that, but I'm questioning why it's the perception, especially considering the QB track record at Alabama, LSU, and especially A&M lately. How does that tag stick to Gus but not to Sumlin? How is it that only one highly rated QB Saban recruited out of HS has done anything at Alabama, but Gus can't develop a QB?

With the recent stretch of good QBs at Ohio State, I could understand if we lost to Meyer. But how in hell does A&M get to overcome that QB bust stench but not us?

Its the whole say it long enough and loud enough idea. When many reputable coaches recite the same montra it begins to snowball. We've had the same issue with LBs with regards to AU can't coach up LBs.

So for some reason they're all ganging up on Auburn but no one's saying the same things about Sumlin's QB track record or that of Les Miles?

They ganged up on AU on this one. WTH does Miles have to do with anything related to Mond? Saban hurt his biggest rival. Urban has a hard on for AU. Sumlin got his QB that he just started to heavily recruit after missing on his top guy. This isn't rocket science.

This comment is truly bordering on the ridiculous. Absurd to think they all had a conference call to strategize about how 5 stick it to Gus. You usually make good comments but I am afraid one or two screws are starting to come loose.

[Altima 200]

And what really irks me, is that Gus is "too nice" to turn the table on these d**kheads... and negative recruit right back!

This business is not for the wieners. You gotta be willing to get nasty!

[AU80cruiser 1,102]

And what really irks me, is that Gus is "too nice" to turn the table on these d**kheads... and negative recruit right back!

This business is not for the wieners. You gotta be willing to get nasty!

I agree with this. Even said a few posts back that recruits apparently don't get the other side of the story from auburn coaches.

[Roos 122]

Take him as QB, let's keep giving kid's chances until we hit another home run!

But this kid has the tools, speed and size, we have not seen this in quite a while,

so offer to let him drive Gus's car, Gus needs to be working on play calling

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Les Miles and Saban are defensive coaches; their OC's should receive more offensive-performance criticisms than they do. Malzahn is considered an offensive wiz. Malzahn has his own offense, even his own book about his offense so he receives more scrutiny for it.

This. When you are labelled as an "offensive genius" and you can't even field a QB worth a sh*t, its going to be an easy target. Saban and Miles can at least sell QBs on the fact that their offense will expose them to schemes/routes that NFL teams are interested in. Its a double whammy for Malzahn as his offense clearly isn't a "this is what you'll be doing in the NFL" audition tape.

So how does this explain Sumlin? He's had more QB talent than anyone in the league the last few years, but it's been crap since Manziel. And his offense isn't anymore of a typical NFL style than Malzahn's is.

[steeleagle 2,945]

Totally agree Titan.

Sumlin has always been a proponent of the one-back or spread offense. He learned it from Joe Tiller at Washington State and Purdue then took the offense with him to A&M.

He then installed the hurry-up spread offense at A&M when he took over as head coach in 2012, and it has helped the Aggies lead the SEC in offense during his first two seasons.

As long as Sumlin is at Texas A&M, you will not see the Aggies huddle, and they will try to quicken the pace of the game. Sumlin has recognized that an offense that employs more of the running game is what is needed in order to be an elite program. He doesn't want to throw it 30-40 times a game.

So i think Mond simply wanted to stay closer to home..and he can do what he wants in their offense as much as ours at AU.

I think if TaM had not been hurting at QB too, then AU may have gotten him, but they were in to the end.

View image on Twitter

[aujeff11 6,243]

https://www.seccountry.com/texas-am/new-aggies-qb-commit-kellen-mond-reveals-reasons-for-choosing-texas-am

Mond says Coach Mazzone was the key factor.... lol

[Altima 200]

Les Miles and Saban are defensive coaches; their OC's should receive more offensive-performance criticisms than they do. Malzahn is considered an offensive wiz. Malzahn has his own offense, even his own book about his offense so he receives more scrutiny for it.

This. When you are labelled as an "offensive genius" and you can't even field a QB worth a sh*t, its going to be an easy target. Saban and Miles can at least sell QBs on the fact that their offense will expose them to schemes/routes that NFL teams are interested in. Its a double whammy for Malzahn as his offense clearly isn't a "this is what you'll be doing in the NFL" audition tape.

So how does this explain Sumlin? He's had more QB talent than anyone in the league the last few years, but it's been crap since Manziel. And his offense isn't anymore of a typical NFL style than Malzahn's is.

It kinda answers the question...

Sumlin, not very good the last 2 years.

Gus, not very good the last 2 years.

All things equal... Mond went with the one closer to home.

I'd give Bishop a shot, tho... why the hell not!

[jacksrc 4]

I see more of negative recruiting CGM philosophy than his development failures. Sumlin will sling the ball around, saban will put you in a NFL offense to prepare you for the next level, gus you can run the read option. This perception has to be fixed this year with more 1st down passing, pa passing, and using different receivers with more routes than screens and go routes.

[ellitor 33,082]

In an effort to try to get this back on the topic of Tray Bishop, ITAT had this free interview this morning Link

Dawson, Ga.--A four-star athlete who is being recruited as a quarterback, wide receiver or even safety for the collegiate level, 6-4, 200 Tray Bishop from Terrell County High School was back on the Auburn campus recently to check out the program and spend time with the football coaching staff and players.

While he wasn’t able to take part in Big Cat Weekend, Bishop’s trip gave him the opportunity to have a relaxed visit to the Plains. That including hanging out with quarterback John Franklin, something Bishop said was a good time for him.

“Talking to the coaches again, you know that's always fun, and getting to hang out John Franklin and a few other guys later on that night was pretty interesting too,” Bishop said. “It was just about being on campus and around the coaches and having talk and watching the other campers.”

Photo by Jason Caldwell

Tray Bishop is getting close to making a college choice.

The fact that Bishop was paired up with Franklin wasn’t a coincidence considering the Tigers are looking at the athlete as a player who could play the position in Auburn’s offense. That is something that is important to Bishop because he said it is how he pictures himself playing for the Tigers.

“It's pretty big due to the fact that I always wanted to play quarterback,” Bishop said. “Auburn first recruited me and I see myself playing quarterback there.”

Noting that Malzahn told him he was “his guy,” Bishop said getting that message was important to him because he believes the offense is a great fit for what he brings to the table.

“I've got speed and I can throw,” Bishop said of what he does best. “I can throw and run so I can hurt you either way.”

With a top three of Auburn, Florida and Georgia, Bishop said he plans to take visits throughout the summer before making a decision on July 25th. As for what he’s looking for in a future school, Bishop said his comfort level is an important part of things. “The way I look at things, am I going to be happy there for four years or however long I stay.”

[metafour 4,968]

So how does this explain Sumlin? He's had more QB talent than anyone in the league the last few years, but it's been crap since Manziel. And his offense isn't anymore of a typical NFL style than Malzahn's is.

Sumlin's offense is pass-heavy, so even though its not an "NFL offense", its still more palatable than whatever Malzahn is going to throw onto the field.

[TexasTiger 12,829]

The problem with pointing out bama is that the only thing they need is serviceable quarterbacks that won't turn the ball over. Not to mention that they have had multiple OC's as well. This point also reinforces my point that we need multiple quality quarterbacks just in case a few don't pan out. We didn't see Bama settle on Blake Barnett just because he could be a star in the league,they went ahead and grabbed Tua this year along with another three star.

My point is that it's unavoidable and it is not some particular black mark on Gus or Rhett that QB recruiting is like this. It's just part of the deal and it happens literally everywhere. You might have 2 or 3 back to back that were good, and then the dark ages, regardless whether it's Auburn, Bama, Georgia, Florida, LSU, Texas, Michigan, Tennessee, USC, A&M...

With Gus and Rhett, I don't know that they have ever had success with a QB they recruited from high school though. Not at Auburn anyway. It might be a small sample size but they are not reinforcing any confidence from the fans in their abilities whenever they run to the juco ranks to get players like JF3 after dismal seasons at the QB position either. Not only that, there is speculation that Jerod Evans wasn't a take even though he was head and shoulders better than JF3

Didn't have success with Mustain, either.

You serious, Clark?

He had Mustain for one year as a true freshman, in Gus's first year as a college coach. Mustain came in during the 4th quarter of the season opener vs USC, then started the next eight games for the winning all eight starts. He finished the season completing 69-for-132 passes for 894 yards, with 10 touchdowns and 9 interceptions, with Houston Nutt interfering the entire way and Arkansas feeding the ball to Darren McFadden and Felix Jones. Malzahn was the coordinator at Tulsa the very next season. That's hardly "didn't have success." That's a pretty decent season for Mustain under the circumstances.

If you think that's success, so be it. 52% passing from a QB you developed for years, especially with that tandem in the backfield is pretty weak. I wouldn't call it a disaster, but I wouldn't call it a success, either.

[mcgufcm 4,096]

True freshman starting in the SEC. You won't find a lot better on any track record in the conference. I guess it's not a home run, but it's as good as anyone could do.

[cole256 17,043]

When sumlin's offense sucks it's still ok. We miss something in our offense we can't make a three yard pass consistently....

[TexasTiger 12,829]

True freshman starting in the SEC. You won't find a lot better on any track record in the conference. I guess it's not a home run, but it's as good as anyone could do.

Danny Weurffel.

[mcgufcm 4,096]

Great pull. One dude, coached by a now-retired Hall of Famer, who played 20+ years ago. I mean, you might as well compare him to Archie Manning.

[TexasTiger 12,829]

Great pull. One dude, coached by a now-retired Hall of Famer, who played 20+ years ago. I mean, you might as well compare him to Archie Manning.

Well, when you make absolute statements like, "as good as anyone could do"...

Btw, the point is not to slam Gus over Mustain's performance which, while mediocre may have been ok for a FR. If folks are looking at his resume/track record, Mustain's a part of it. Folks can assess it as they will.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

The problem with pointing out bama is that the only thing they need is serviceable quarterbacks that won't turn the ball over. Not to mention that they have had multiple OC's as well. This point also reinforces my point that we need multiple quality quarterbacks just in case a few don't pan out. We didn't see Bama settle on Blake Barnett just because he could be a star in the league,they went ahead and grabbed Tua this year along with another three star.

My point is that it's unavoidable and it is not some particular black mark on Gus or Rhett that QB recruiting is like this. It's just part of the deal and it happens literally everywhere. You might have 2 or 3 back to back that were good, and then the dark ages, regardless whether it's Auburn, Bama, Georgia, Florida, LSU, Texas, Michigan, Tennessee, USC, A&M...

With Gus and Rhett, I don't know that they have ever had success with a QB they recruited from high school though. Not at Auburn anyway. It might be a small sample size but they are not reinforcing any confidence from the fans in their abilities whenever they run to the juco ranks to get players like JF3 after dismal seasons at the QB position either. Not only that, there is speculation that Jerod Evans wasn't a take even though he was head and shoulders better than JF3

Didn't have success with Mustain, either.

You serious, Clark?

He had Mustain for one year as a true freshman, in Gus's first year as a college coach. Mustain came in during the 4th quarter of the season opener vs USC, then started the next eight games for the winning all eight starts. He finished the season completing 69-for-132 passes for 894 yards, with 10 touchdowns and 9 interceptions, with Houston Nutt interfering the entire way and Arkansas feeding the ball to Darren McFadden and Felix Jones. Malzahn was the coordinator at Tulsa the very next season. That's hardly "didn't have success." That's a pretty decent season for Mustain under the circumstances.

If you think that's success, so be it. 52% passing from a QB you developed for years, especially with that tandem in the backfield is pretty weak. I wouldn't call it a disaster, but I wouldn't call it a success, either.

And it wasn't exactly Gus getting to run his offense either. The key part was "under the circumstances." Especially for a true freshman in the SEC.

[TexasTiger 12,829]

The problem with pointing out bama is that the only thing they need is serviceable quarterbacks that won't turn the ball over. Not to mention that they have had multiple OC's as well. This point also reinforces my point that we need multiple quality quarterbacks just in case a few don't pan out. We didn't see Bama settle on Blake Barnett just because he could be a star in the league,they went ahead and grabbed Tua this year along with another three star.

My point is that it's unavoidable and it is not some particular black mark on Gus or Rhett that QB recruiting is like this. It's just part of the deal and it happens literally everywhere. You might have 2 or 3 back to back that were good, and then the dark ages, regardless whether it's Auburn, Bama, Georgia, Florida, LSU, Texas, Michigan, Tennessee, USC, A&M...

With Gus and Rhett, I don't know that they have ever had success with a QB they recruited from high school though. Not at Auburn anyway. It might be a small sample size but they are not reinforcing any confidence from the fans in their abilities whenever they run to the juco ranks to get players like JF3 after dismal seasons at the QB position either. Not only that, there is speculation that Jerod Evans wasn't a take even though he was head and shoulders better than JF3

Didn't have success with Mustain, either.

You serious, Clark?

He had Mustain for one year as a true freshman, in Gus's first year as a college coach. Mustain came in during the 4th quarter of the season opener vs USC, then started the next eight games for the winning all eight starts. He finished the season completing 69-for-132 passes for 894 yards, with 10 touchdowns and 9 interceptions, with Houston Nutt interfering the entire way and Arkansas feeding the ball to Darren McFadden and Felix Jones. Malzahn was the coordinator at Tulsa the very next season. That's hardly "didn't have success." That's a pretty decent season for Mustain under the circumstances.

If you think that's success, so be it. 52% passing from a QB you developed for years, especially with that tandem in the backfield is pretty weak. I wouldn't call it a disaster, but I wouldn't call it a success, either.

And it wasn't exactly Gus getting to run his offense either. The key part was "under the circumstances." Especially for a true freshman in the SEC.

By itself it would be meaningless. But where are the successes since then? Just saying its part of a larger record.

[TexasTiger 12,829]

The problem with pointing out bama is that the only thing they need is serviceable quarterbacks that won't turn the ball over. Not to mention that they have had multiple OC's as well. This point also reinforces my point that we need multiple quality quarterbacks just in case a few don't pan out. We didn't see Bama settle on Blake Barnett just because he could be a star in the league,they went ahead and grabbed Tua this year along with another three star.

My point is that it's unavoidable and it is not some particular black mark on Gus or Rhett that QB recruiting is like this. It's just part of the deal and it happens literally everywhere. You might have 2 or 3 back to back that were good, and then the dark ages, regardless whether it's Auburn, Bama, Georgia, Florida, LSU, Texas, Michigan, Tennessee, USC, A&M...

With Gus and Rhett, I don't know that they have ever had success with a QB they recruited from high school though. Not at Auburn anyway. It might be a small sample size but they are not reinforcing any confidence from the fans in their abilities whenever they run to the juco ranks to get players like JF3 after dismal seasons at the QB position either. Not only that, there is speculation that Jerod Evans wasn't a take even though he was head and shoulders better than JF3

Didn't have success with Mustain, either.

You serious, Clark?

He had Mustain for one year as a true freshman, in Gus's first year as a college coach. Mustain came in during the 4th quarter of the season opener vs USC, then started the next eight games for the winning all eight starts. He finished the season completing 69-for-132 passes for 894 yards, with 10 touchdowns and 9 interceptions, with Houston Nutt interfering the entire way and Arkansas feeding the ball to Darren McFadden and Felix Jones. Malzahn was the coordinator at Tulsa the very next season. That's hardly "didn't have success." That's a pretty decent season for Mustain under the circumstances.

If you think that's success, so be it. 52% passing from a QB you developed for years, especially with that tandem in the backfield is pretty weak. I wouldn't call it a disaster, but I wouldn't call it a success, either.

And it wasn't exactly Gus getting to run his offense either. The key part was "under the circumstances." Especially for a true freshman in the SEC.

By itself it would be meaningless. But where are the successes since then? Just saying its part of a larger record.

But if SW has a strong year, that narrative takes a big hit.

[bigbird 60,491]

That's what we're all hoping for.

[AUpreacherman22 3,885]

just go all balls in keeping Gatewood and the heck with this year

Come on now

what, u wanna sign a qb just to say we signed one this year, 38-40 of the top 40 are committed already. best hope is for a coaching change and opportunity

Well he's not just a QB though. He is a very good athlete that could excel @ WR.

He is more than likely not a qb, great athlete and would love to have him. I just don't see the point of bringing in a project QB when we have nobody capable of teaching them on staff. Stay focused on QB's with good fundamentals and maybe someone decommits from another school do to coaching changes or something than just start recruiting the next guy on the list. And make for dang sure that any QB recruit loves to play the game and wants to be great, not good, but great at his craft. This is where most teams fail in QB recruiting more so than any other position.

I don't understand this. Cam wasn't a finished product coming to Auburn. He matured into a great QB and he didn't do that on his own. Yes he had freakish physical talent, but he also became better at a lot of things under Gus. Nick was an INT machine in JUCO and hadn't played QB at UGA at all. He was never going to be an outstanding pocket passer, but he was a much better QB by the end of his time at Auburn than the beginning. Sean White has no where near the raw talent of those two, but has shown amazing poise and skills.

QBs are a hard thing to predict. I've posted before that this same sort of thing happens other places. Here's the 4-star or higher QBs signed by Alabama since Saban arrived that have failed or yet to produce:

Star Jackson

Philip Sims

Cooper Bateman

David Cornwell

Blake Barnett

He inherited John Parker Wilson and Greg McElroy. Thus far the only highly rated HS QB recruited by Saban that has panned out was AJ McCarron. Jake Coker was a transfer and he couldn't even beat out Blake Sims who was serviceable but couldn't even make a practice squad in the CFL at QB.

Look at LSU in the same timeframe:

Jarrett Lee

Chris Garrett

Russell Shepard (5-star)

Zach Lee

Jarrad Randall

Zach Mettenberger

Anthony Jennings

Hayden Rettig

Brandon Harris

And does anyone remember 5-star Ryan Perriloux a couple of years before that?

Mettenberger was the only one to put up any decent stats. The rest have been mediocre to terrible, under multiple coordinators/QB coaches some of whom had great track records with QBs prior to LSU.

Under Gus/Lashlee, we've had two successes in Cam and Nick. And the only other top rated guy is JJ who has been a bust. Trotter and Moseley were 2-3-star projects who also suffered from a huge talent drain on offense after 2010.

I just don't buy this notion that we "have nobody capable of teaching them on staff."

#facts

#titandropsthemic