2017 4* DB Tray Bishop (UGA 1/1/17)

[aujeff11 6,243]

The problem with pointing out bama is that the only thing they need is serviceable quarterbacks that won't turn the ball over. Not to mention that they have had multiple OC's as well. This point also reinforces my point that we need multiple quality quarterbacks just in case a few don't pan out. We didn't see Bama settle on Blake Barnett just because he could be a star in the league,they went ahead and grabbed Tua this year along with another three star.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

The problem with pointing out bama is that the only thing they need is serviceable quarterbacks that won't turn the ball over. Not to mention that they have had multiple OC's as well. This point also reinforces my point that we need multiple quality quarterbacks just in case a few don't pan out. We didn't see Bama settle on Blake Barnett just because he could be a star in the league,they went ahead and grabbed Tua this year along with another three star.

My point is that it's unavoidable and it is not some particular black mark on Gus or Rhett that QB recruiting is like this. It's just part of the deal and it happens literally everywhere. You might have 2 or 3 back to back that were good, and then the dark ages, regardless whether it's Auburn, Bama, Georgia, Florida, LSU, Texas, Michigan, Tennessee, USC, A&M...

[aujeff11 6,243]

The problem with pointing out bama is that the only thing they need is serviceable quarterbacks that won't turn the ball over. Not to mention that they have had multiple OC's as well. This point also reinforces my point that we need multiple quality quarterbacks just in case a few don't pan out. We didn't see Bama settle on Blake Barnett just because he could be a star in the league,they went ahead and grabbed Tua this year along with another three star.

My point is that it's unavoidable and it is not some particular black mark on Gus or Rhett that QB recruiting is like this. It's just part of the deal and it happens literally everywhere. You might have 2 or 3 back to back that were good, and then the dark ages, regardless whether it's Auburn, Bama, Georgia, Florida, LSU, Texas, Michigan, Tennessee, USC, A&M...

With Gus and Rhett, I don't know that they have ever had success with a QB they recruited from high school though. Not at Auburn anyway. It might be a small sample size but they are not reinforcing any confidence from the fans in their abilities whenever they run to the juco ranks to get players like JF3 after dismal seasons at the QB position either. Not only that, there is speculation that Jerod Evans wasn't a take even though he was head and shoulders better than JF3

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

The problem with pointing out bama is that the only thing they need is serviceable quarterbacks that won't turn the ball over. Not to mention that they have had multiple OC's as well. This point also reinforces my point that we need multiple quality quarterbacks just in case a few don't pan out. We didn't see Bama settle on Blake Barnett just because he could be a star in the league,they went ahead and grabbed Tua this year along with another three star.

My point is that it's unavoidable and it is not some particular black mark on Gus or Rhett that QB recruiting is like this. It's just part of the deal and it happens literally everywhere. You might have 2 or 3 back to back that were good, and then the dark ages, regardless whether it's Auburn, Bama, Georgia, Florida, LSU, Texas, Michigan, Tennessee, USC, A&M...

This has turned into a perception deal with Gus/Rhett and high school QBs. These recruits are being told that Gus/Rhett can't develop a high school QB. And the recruits are listening.

I love this "Mond picked A&M because of the A&M network". Mond chose A&M because he had at least 3 different high profile HC's telling him the same thing about Gus and high school QB's. As soon as Mond backed out of his commitment to AU he was gone.

[metafour 4,968]

This has turned into a perception deal with Gus/Rhett and high school QBs. These recruits are being told that Gus/Rhett can't develop a high school QB. And the recruits are listening.

I love this "Mond picked A&M because of the A&M network". Mond chose A&M because he had at least 3 different high profile HC's telling him the same thing about Gus and high school QB's. As soon as Mond backed out of his commitment to AU he was gone.

Yup. Gus and company have done nothing to silence perception. The "perception" isn't even inaccurate.

[bigbird 60,498]

Exactly. The perception = reality statement is in full effect. Gus has to develop a HS to a high level to silence the negarecruiters. He hasn't yet and their voices are just getting louder with each QB that passes on AU.

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

Exactly. The perception = reality statement is in full effect. Gus has to develop a HS to a high level to silence the negarecruiters. He hasn't yet and their voices are just getting louder with each QB that passes on AU.

And for anyone wondering who was in Monds ear, Urban, Nick and Kevin were all in unison on their spill about Gus. I'd say all 3 talked and got on the same page. Win win win for all 3.

[bg5 536]

To state the obvious, Gus better get someone who can develop QB's in ASAP or he wont be around to worry about it. If it's not to late already.

[thaitopher 807]

Exactly. The perception = reality statement is in full effect. Gus has to develop a HS to a high level to silence the negarecruiters. He hasn't yet and their voices are just getting louder with each QB that passes on AU.

And for anyone wondering who was in Monds ear, Urban, Nick and Kevin were all in unison on their spill about Gus. I'd say all 3 talked and got on the same page. Win win win for all 3.

Maybe for Urban and Nick but I doubt Sumlin did. He has his own issues.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

This has turned into a perception deal with Gus/Rhett and high school QBs. These recruits are being told that Gus/Rhett can't develop a high school QB. And the recruits are listening.

I love this "Mond picked A&M because of the A&M network". Mond chose A&M because he had at least 3 different high profile HC's telling him the same thing about Gus and high school QB's. As soon as Mond backed out of his commitment to AU he was gone.

Yup. Gus and company have done nothing to silence perception. The "perception" isn't even inaccurate.

I think the perception is inaccurate. Or at least unproven.

Gus got to Auburn in 2009 and we had a talent deficit at QB. It was apparent that Kodi wasn't SEC caliber and Todd was just serviceable. So he went and got Cam. Gus was only here one more season as OC with an injured Trotter and late add on in Clint Moseley. Flash forward to 2013, Gus returns and the cupboard is once again bare at QB. So he snags Nick Marshall for the immediate impact and recruits 4-star Jeremy Johnson that year and 4-star Sean White the next. JJ has been a bust, but Sean has shown great promise - though he may not be the best fit for Gus's offense as it turns out (to be determined). But when he was recruited I don't know that that was a given.

So in reality, Gus/Rhett have whiffed (assuming it's all their fault and someone else could have magically turned JJ into a great SEC QB) on one highly-rated guy out of high school. But you'd think there was some string of crap trailing behind them.

Meanwhile Sumlin has done jack with a plethora of 4 and 5-star kids since Johnny Football, Saban has groomed only one truly great QB from start to finish despite a stable full of 4-stars, but Gus and Rhett somehow suck? Not buying.

[bigbird 60,498]

not saying they suck, but the perception being peddled by those recruiting against us are. As you have pointed out, there has really only been one HS QB that they have coached, but, to that end, JJ has been a bust to this point. That point is being hammered and many recruits are listening to it. Gus has to develop a HS QB and prove it on the field to stop the avalanche of negative perception recruiting.

[KerryThachWDE 42]

even though Gus left for a year, I would say he coached Khiel Frazier out of high school. he was a bust too.

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

Exactly. The perception = reality statement is in full effect. Gus has to develop a HS to a high level to silence the negarecruiters. He hasn't yet and their voices are just getting louder with each QB that passes on AU.

And for anyone wondering who was in Monds ear, Urban, Nick and Kevin were all in unison on their spill about Gus. I'd say all 3 talked and got on the same page. Win win win for all 3.

Maybe for Urban and Nick but I doubt Sumlin did. He has his own issues.

Mond committed to Sumlin.

[thaitopher 807]

Exactly. The perception = reality statement is in full effect. Gus has to develop a HS to a high level to silence the negarecruiters. He hasn't yet and their voices are just getting louder with each QB that passes on AU.

And for anyone wondering who was in Monds ear, Urban, Nick and Kevin were all in unison on their spill about Gus. I'd say all 3 talked and got on the same page. Win win win for all 3.

Maybe for Urban and Nick but I doubt Sumlin did. He has his own issues.

Mond committed to Sumlin.

That doesn't mean Sumlin, Meyer and Saban had some anti - Auburn powwow that you so clearly state.

[C'viewTiger 242]

Exactly. The perception = reality statement is in full effect. Gus has to develop a HS to a high level to silence the negarecruiters. He hasn't yet and their voices are just getting louder with each QB that passes on AU.

And for anyone wondering who was in Monds ear, Urban, Nick and Kevin were all in unison on their spill about Gus. I'd say all 3 talked and got on the same page. Win win win for all 3.

This would make since if Summit hadn't had SO many high profile QBs bust recently. He hasn't developed anyone other than JM and you can contribute that success to his escapability vs. Pure QB skills. That kid threw more balls up for grabs than anyone I've watched in a long time. His receivers just bailed him out.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

not saying they suck, but the perception being peddled by those recruiting against us are. As you have pointed out, there has really only been one HS QB that they have coached, but, to that end, JJ has been a bust to this point. That point is being hammered and many recruits are listening to it. Gus has to develop a HS QB and prove it on the field to stop the avalanche of negative perception recruiting.

I get that, but I'm questioning why it's the perception, especially considering the QB track record at Alabama, LSU, and especially A&M lately. How does that tag stick to Gus but not to Sumlin? How is it that only one highly rated QB Saban recruited out of HS has done anything at Alabama, but Gus can't develop a QB?

With the recent stretch of good QBs at Ohio State, I could understand if we lost to Meyer. But how in hell does A&M get to overcome that QB bust stench but not us?

[aubie17 65]

just go all balls in keeping Gatewood and the heck with this year

Come on now

what, u wanna sign a qb just to say we signed one this year, 38-40 of the top 40 are committed already. best hope is for a coaching change and opportunity

Well he's not just a QB though. He is a very good athlete that could excel @ WR.

He is more than likely not a qb, great athlete and would love to have him. I just don't see the point of bringing in a project QB when we have nobody capable of teaching them on staff. Stay focused on QB's with good fundamentals and maybe someone decommits from another school do to coaching changes or something than just start recruiting the next guy on the list. And make for dang sure that any QB recruit loves to play the game and wants to be great, not good, but great at his craft. This is where most teams fail in QB recruiting more so than any other position.

I don't understand this. Cam wasn't a finished product coming to Auburn. He matured into a great QB and he didn't do that on his own. Yes he had freakish physical talent, but he also became better at a lot of things under Gus. Nick was an INT machine in JUCO and hadn't played QB at UGA at all. He was never going to be an outstanding pocket passer, but he was a much better QB by the end of his time at Auburn than the beginning. Sean White has no where near the raw talent of those two, but has shown amazing poise and skills.

QBs are a hard thing to predict. I've posted before that this same sort of thing happens other places. Here's the 4-star or higher QBs signed by Alabama since Saban arrived that have failed or yet to produce:

Star Jackson

Philip Sims

Cooper Bateman

David Cornwell

Blake Barnett

He inherited John Parker Wilson and Greg McElroy. Thus far the only highly rated HS QB recruited by Saban that has panned out was AJ McCarron. Jake Coker was a transfer and he couldn't even beat out Blake Sims who was serviceable but couldn't even make a practice squad in the CFL at QB.

Look at LSU in the same timeframe:

Jarrett Lee

Chris Garrett

Russell Shepard (5-star)

Zach Lee

Jarrad Randall

Zach Mettenberger

Anthony Jennings

Hayden Rettig

Brandon Harris

And does anyone remember 5-star Ryan Perriloux a couple of years before that?

Mettenberger was the only one to put up any decent stats. The rest have been mediocre to terrible, under multiple coordinators/QB coaches some of whom had great track records with QBs prior to LSU.

Under Gus/Lashlee, we've had two successes in Cam and Nick. And the only other top rated guy is JJ who has been a bust. Trotter and Moseley were 2-3-star projects who also suffered from a huge talent drain on offense after 2010.

I just don't buy this notion that we "have nobody capable of teaching them on staff."

I appreciate this perspective on the topic. Thank you.

[TexasTiger 12,829]

The problem with pointing out bama is that the only thing they need is serviceable quarterbacks that won't turn the ball over. Not to mention that they have had multiple OC's as well. This point also reinforces my point that we need multiple quality quarterbacks just in case a few don't pan out. We didn't see Bama settle on Blake Barnett just because he could be a star in the league,they went ahead and grabbed Tua this year along with another three star.

My point is that it's unavoidable and it is not some particular black mark on Gus or Rhett that QB recruiting is like this. It's just part of the deal and it happens literally everywhere. You might have 2 or 3 back to back that were good, and then the dark ages, regardless whether it's Auburn, Bama, Georgia, Florida, LSU, Texas, Michigan, Tennessee, USC, A&M...

With Gus and Rhett, I don't know that they have ever had success with a QB they recruited from high school though. Not at Auburn anyway. It might be a small sample size but they are not reinforcing any confidence from the fans in their abilities whenever they run to the juco ranks to get players like JF3 after dismal seasons at the QB position either. Not only that, there is speculation that Jerod Evans wasn't a take even though he was head and shoulders better than JF3

Didn't have success with Mustain, either.

[bigbird 60,498]

not saying they suck, but the perception being peddled by those recruiting against us are. As you have pointed out, there has really only been one HS QB that they have coached, but, to that end, JJ has been a bust to this point. That point is being hammered and many recruits are listening to it. Gus has to develop a HS QB and prove it on the field to stop the avalanche of negative perception recruiting.

I get that, but I'm questioning why it's the perception, especially considering the QB track record at Alabama, LSU, and especially A&M lately. How does that tag stick to Gus but not to Sumlin? How is it that only one highly rated QB Saban recruited out of HS has done anything at Alabama, but Gus can't develop a QB?

With the recent stretch of good QBs at Ohio State, I could understand if we lost to Meyer. But how in hell does A&M get to overcome that QB bust stench but not us?

Its the whole say it long enough and loud enough idea. When many reputable coaches recite the same montra it begins to snowball. We've had the same issue with LBs with regards to AU can't coach up LBs.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

The problem with pointing out bama is that the only thing they need is serviceable quarterbacks that won't turn the ball over. Not to mention that they have had multiple OC's as well. This point also reinforces my point that we need multiple quality quarterbacks just in case a few don't pan out. We didn't see Bama settle on Blake Barnett just because he could be a star in the league,they went ahead and grabbed Tua this year along with another three star.

My point is that it's unavoidable and it is not some particular black mark on Gus or Rhett that QB recruiting is like this. It's just part of the deal and it happens literally everywhere. You might have 2 or 3 back to back that were good, and then the dark ages, regardless whether it's Auburn, Bama, Georgia, Florida, LSU, Texas, Michigan, Tennessee, USC, A&M...

With Gus and Rhett, I don't know that they have ever had success with a QB they recruited from high school though. Not at Auburn anyway. It might be a small sample size but they are not reinforcing any confidence from the fans in their abilities whenever they run to the juco ranks to get players like JF3 after dismal seasons at the QB position either. Not only that, there is speculation that Jerod Evans wasn't a take even though he was head and shoulders better than JF3

Didn't have success with Mustain, either.

You serious, Clark?

He had Mustain for one year as a true freshman, in Gus's first year as a college coach. Mustain came in during the 4th quarter of the season opener vs USC, then started the next eight games for the winning all eight starts. He finished the season completing 69-for-132 passes for 894 yards, with 10 touchdowns and 9 interceptions, with Houston Nutt interfering the entire way and Arkansas feeding the ball to Darren McFadden and Felix Jones. Malzahn was the coordinator at Tulsa the very next season. That's hardly "didn't have success." That's a pretty decent season for Mustain under the circumstances.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

not saying they suck, but the perception being peddled by those recruiting against us are. As you have pointed out, there has really only been one HS QB that they have coached, but, to that end, JJ has been a bust to this point. That point is being hammered and many recruits are listening to it. Gus has to develop a HS QB and prove it on the field to stop the avalanche of negative perception recruiting.

I get that, but I'm questioning why it's the perception, especially considering the QB track record at Alabama, LSU, and especially A&M lately. How does that tag stick to Gus but not to Sumlin? How is it that only one highly rated QB Saban recruited out of HS has done anything at Alabama, but Gus can't develop a QB?

With the recent stretch of good QBs at Ohio State, I could understand if we lost to Meyer. But how in hell does A&M get to overcome that QB bust stench but not us?

Its the whole say it long enough and loud enough idea. When many reputable coaches recite the same montra it begins to snowball. We've had the same issue with LBs with regards to AU can't coach up LBs.

So for some reason they're all ganging up on Auburn but no one's saying the same things about Sumlin's QB track record or that of Les Miles?

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

Exactly. The perception = reality statement is in full effect. Gus has to develop a HS to a high level to silence the negarecruiters. He hasn't yet and their voices are just getting louder with each QB that passes on AU.

And for anyone wondering who was in Monds ear, Urban, Nick and Kevin were all in unison on their spill about Gus. I'd say all 3 talked and got on the same page. Win win win for all 3.

Maybe for Urban and Nick but I doubt Sumlin did. He has his own issues.

Mond committed to Sumlin.

That doesn't mean Sumlin, Meyer and Saban had some anti - Auburn powwow that you so clearly state.

Ok

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

not saying they suck, but the perception being peddled by those recruiting against us are. As you have pointed out, there has really only been one HS QB that they have coached, but, to that end, JJ has been a bust to this point. That point is being hammered and many recruits are listening to it. Gus has to develop a HS QB and prove it on the field to stop the avalanche of negative perception recruiting.

I get that, but I'm questioning why it's the perception, especially considering the QB track record at Alabama, LSU, and especially A&M lately. How does that tag stick to Gus but not to Sumlin? How is it that only one highly rated QB Saban recruited out of HS has done anything at Alabama, but Gus can't develop a QB?

With the recent stretch of good QBs at Ohio State, I could understand if we lost to Meyer. But how in hell does A&M get to overcome that QB bust stench but not us?

Its the whole say it long enough and loud enough idea. When many reputable coaches recite the same montra it begins to snowball. We've had the same issue with LBs with regards to AU can't coach up LBs.

So for some reason they're all ganging up on Auburn but no one's saying the same things about Sumlin's QB track record or that of Les Miles?

They ganged up on AU on this one. WTH does Miles have to do with anything related to Mond? Saban hurt his biggest rival. Urban has a hard on for AU. Sumlin got his QB that he just started to heavily recruit after missing on his top guy. This isn't rocket science.

[aujeff11 6,243]

not saying they suck, but the perception being peddled by those recruiting against us are. As you have pointed out, there has really only been one HS QB that they have coached, but, to that end, JJ has been a bust to this point. That point is being hammered and many recruits are listening to it. Gus has to develop a HS QB and prove it on the field to stop the avalanche of negative perception recruiting.

I get that, but I'm questioning why it's the perception, especially considering the QB track record at Alabama, LSU, and especially A&M lately. How does that tag stick to Gus but not to Sumlin? How is it that only one highly rated QB Saban recruited out of HS has done anything at Alabama, but Gus can't develop a QB?

With the recent stretch of good QBs at Ohio State, I could understand if we lost to Meyer. But how in hell does A&M get to overcome that QB bust stench but not us?

Its the whole say it long enough and loud enough idea. When many reputable coaches recite the same montra it begins to snowball. We've had the same issue with LBs with regards to AU can't coach up LBs.

So for some reason they're all ganging up on Auburn but no one's saying the same things about Sumlin's QB track record or that of Les Miles?

I believe Sumlin has escaped the ganging up because of Manziel. I also think he is escaping from it because there is a thought that there are cultural problems bigger than quarterback development that contributed to the demise of their last two quarterbacks, not solely from a lack of development.

Les Miles and Saban are defensive coaches; their OC's should receive more offensive-performance criticisms than they do. Malzahn is considered an offensive wiz. Malzahn has his own offense, even his own book about his offense so he receives more scrutiny for it.

[AU80cruiser 1,102]

not saying they suck, but the perception being peddled by those recruiting against us are. As you have pointed out, there has really only been one HS QB that they have coached, but, to that end, JJ has been a bust to this point. That point is being hammered and many recruits are listening to it. Gus has to develop a HS QB and prove it on the field to stop the avalanche of negative perception recruiting.

I get that, but I'm questioning why it's the perception, especially considering the QB track record at Alabama, LSU, and especially A&M lately. How does that tag stick to Gus but not to Sumlin? How is it that only one highly rated QB Saban recruited out of HS has done anything at Alabama, but Gus can't develop a QB?

With the recent stretch of good QBs at Ohio State, I could understand if we lost to Meyer. But how in hell does A&M get to overcome that QB bust stench but not us?

Its the whole say it long enough and loud enough idea. When many reputable coaches recite the same montra it begins to snowball. We've had the same issue with LBs with regards to AU can't coach up LBs.

And couple that with apparently Auburn doesn't negatively recruit so they arent getting the other side of the story from our coaches.