2017 4* DB Tray Bishop (UGA 1/1/17)

[DAG 33,957]

just go all balls in keeping Gatewood and the heck with this year

Come on now

what, u wanna sign a qb just to say we signed one this year, 38-40 of the top 40 are committed already. best hope is for a coaching change and opportunity

Well he's not just a QB though. He is a very good athlete that could excel @ WR.

He is more than likely not a qb, great athlete and would love to have him. I just don't see the point of bringing in a project QB when we have nobody capable of teaching them on staff. Stay focused on QB's with good fundamentals and maybe someone decommits from another school do to coaching changes or something than just start recruiting the next guy on the list. And make for dang sure that any QB recruit loves to play the game and wants to be great, not good, but great at his craft. This is where most teams fail in QB recruiting more so than any other position.

I don't understand this. Cam wasn't a finished product coming to Auburn. He matured into a great QB and he didn't do that on his own. Yes he had freakish physical talent, but he also became better at a lot of things under Gus. Nick was an INT machine in JUCO and hadn't played QB at UGA at all. He was never going to be an outstanding pocket passer, but he was a much better QB by the end of his time at Auburn than the beginning. Sean White has no where near the raw talent of those two, but has shown amazing poise and skills.

QBs are a hard thing to predict. I've posted before that this same sort of thing happens other places. Here's the 4-star or higher QBs signed by Alabama since Saban arrived that have failed or yet to produce:

Star Jackson

Philip Sims

Cooper Bateman

David Cornwell

Blake Barnett

He inherited John Parker Wilson and Greg McElroy. Thus far the only highly rated HS QB recruited by Saban that has panned out was AJ McCarron. Jake Coker was a transfer and he couldn't even beat out Blake Sims who was serviceable but couldn't even make a practice squad in the CFL at QB.

Look at LSU in the same timeframe:

Jarrett Lee

Chris Garrett

Russell Shepard (5-star)

Zach Lee

Jarrad Randall

Zach Mettenberger

Anthony Jennings

Hayden Rettig

Brandon Harris

And does anyone remember 5-star Ryan Perriloux a couple of years before that?

Mettenberger was the only one to put up any decent stats. The rest have been mediocre to terrible, under multiple coordinators/QB coaches some of whom had great track records with QBs prior to LSU.

Under Gus/Lashlee, we've had two successes in Cam and Nick. And the only other top rated guy is JJ who has been a bust. Trotter and Moseley were 2-3-star projects who also suffered from a huge talent drain on offense after 2010.

I just don't buy this notion that we "have nobody capable of teaching them on staff."

#facts

#titandropsthemic

Mic drop for what? It has already been stated that neither Les Miles or Nick Saban are or were considered offensive geniuses. There philosophy has always been win with tough defenses and a strong ground game (They pretty much excel at both). Now, when they start having continuously sucky defenses or piss poor Rbs, then you can get back to this.

[DAG 33,957]

Great pull. One dude, coached by a now-retired Hall of Famer, who played 20+ years ago. I mean, you might as well compare him to Archie Manning.

BTW, You can add Peyton Manning as well.

Chris Leak was also comparable.

Neither coached by HOFs.

Neither had the luxury of having d-mac in their backfield as well.

Edit: Well I guess fat Phil would be a HoF but definitely not Ron Zook.

[TexasTiger 12,826]

Great pull. One dude, coached by a now-retired Hall of Famer, who played 20+ years ago. I mean, you might as well compare him to Archie Manning.

BTW, You can add Peyton Manning as well.

Chris Leak was also comparable.

Neither coached by HOF coaches at the time.

Peyton's a better comparison than Archie since Peyton had better stats than Mitch as a FR and Archie played JV as a FR.

[ellitor 33,076]

Tray Bishop peeps. We have other QB threads on the football forum.

[TAYLORKEETON 788]

The problem with pointing out bama is that the only thing they need is serviceable quarterbacks that won't turn the ball over. Not to mention that they have had multiple OC's as well. This point also reinforces my point that we need multiple quality quarterbacks just in case a few don't pan out. We didn't see Bama settle on Blake Barnett just because he could be a star in the league,they went ahead and grabbed Tua this year along with another three star.

My point is that it's unavoidable and it is not some particular black mark on Gus or Rhett that QB recruiting is like this. It's just part of the deal and it happens literally everywhere. You might have 2 or 3 back to back that were good, and then the dark ages, regardless whether it's Auburn, Bama, Georgia, Florida, LSU, Texas, Michigan, Tennessee, USC, A&M...

With Gus and Rhett, I don't know that they have ever had success with a QB they recruited from high school though. Not at Auburn anyway. It might be a small sample size but they are not reinforcing any confidence from the fans in their abilities whenever they run to the juco ranks to get players like JF3 after dismal seasons at the QB position either. Not only that, there is speculation that Jerod Evans wasn't a take even though he was head and shoulders better than JF3

Didn't have success with Mustain, either.

You serious, Clark?

He had Mustain for one year as a true freshman, in Gus's first year as a college coach. Mustain came in during the 4th quarter of the season opener vs USC, then started the next eight games for the winning all eight starts. He finished the season completing 69-for-132 passes for 894 yards, with 10 touchdowns and 9 interceptions, with Houston Nutt interfering the entire way and Arkansas feeding the ball to Darren McFadden and Felix Jones. Malzahn was the coordinator at Tulsa the very next season. That's hardly "didn't have success." That's a pretty decent season for Mustain under the circumstances.

If you think that's success, so be it. 52% passing from a QB you developed for years, especially with that tandem in the backfield is pretty weak. I wouldn't call it a disaster, but I wouldn't call it a success, either.

considering the kid was a true freshman....Mustain done pretty good.

[jamesbrooks 0]

Back to Tray- Great athlete, plays in a triple option system with terrible pass blocking O-line. Maybe he really develops as a passer at Auburn, but if he doesn't after 1 year in the system what a great WR or Safety he will make. Win-Win situation.

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

https://www.seccount...oosing-texas-am

Mond says Coach Mazzone was the key factor.... lol

So Sumlin & Mazzone beat Gus and Rhett for a QB. Ouch. Mazzone?

[aujeff11 6,243]

https://www.seccount...oosing-texas-am

Mond says Coach Mazzone was the key factor.... lol

So Sumlin & Mazzone beat Gus and Rhett for a QB. Ouch. Mazzone? :dunno:/> :lmao:/>

Yeah he spurned a Malzahn offense for a Mazzone offense. Ouch is right.

[AUApostle 7,651]

When sumlin's offense sucks it's still ok. We miss something in our offense we can't make a three yard pass consistently....

Like against us last year?

[WarTim 3,456]

just go all balls in keeping Gatewood and the heck with this year

Come on now

what, u wanna sign a qb just to say we signed one this year, 38-40 of the top 40 are committed already. best hope is for a coaching change and opportunity

Well he's not just a QB though. He is a very good athlete that could excel @ WR.

He is more than likely not a qb, great athlete and would love to have him. I just don't see the point of bringing in a project QB when we have nobody capable of teaching them on staff. Stay focused on QB's with good fundamentals and maybe someone decommits from another school do to coaching changes or something than just start recruiting the next guy on the list. And make for dang sure that any QB recruit loves to play the game and wants to be great, not good, but great at his craft. This is where most teams fail in QB recruiting more so than any other position.

I don't understand this. Cam wasn't a finished product coming to Auburn. He matured into a great QB and he didn't do that on his own. Yes he had freakish physical talent, but he also became better at a lot of things under Gus. Nick was an INT machine in JUCO and hadn't played QB at UGA at all. He was never going to be an outstanding pocket passer, but he was a much better QB by the end of his time at Auburn than the beginning. Sean White has no where near the raw talent of those two, but has shown amazing poise and skills.

QBs are a hard thing to predict. I've posted before that this same sort of thing happens other places. Here's the 4-star or higher QBs signed by Alabama since Saban arrived that have failed or yet to produce:

Star Jackson

Philip Sims

Cooper Bateman

David Cornwell

Blake Barnett

He inherited John Parker Wilson and Greg McElroy. Thus far the only highly rated HS QB recruited by Saban that has panned out was AJ McCarron. Jake Coker was a transfer and he couldn't even beat out Blake Sims who was serviceable but couldn't even make a practice squad in the CFL at QB.

Look at LSU in the same timeframe:

Jarrett Lee

Chris Garrett

Russell Shepard (5-star)

Zach Lee

Jarrad Randall

Zach Mettenberger

Anthony Jennings

Hayden Rettig

Brandon Harris

And does anyone remember 5-star Ryan Perriloux a couple of years before that?

Mettenberger was the only one to put up any decent stats. The rest have been mediocre to terrible, under multiple coordinators/QB coaches some of whom had great track records with QBs prior to LSU.

Under Gus/Lashlee, we've had two successes in Cam and Nick. And the only other top rated guy is JJ who has been a bust. Trotter and Moseley were 2-3-star projects who also suffered from a huge talent drain on offense after 2010.

I just don't buy this notion that we "have nobody capable of teaching them on staff."

#facts

#titandropsthemic

This^^^

[TitanTiger 20,472]

just go all balls in keeping Gatewood and the heck with this year

Come on now

what, u wanna sign a qb just to say we signed one this year, 38-40 of the top 40 are committed already. best hope is for a coaching change and opportunity

Well he's not just a QB though. He is a very good athlete that could excel @ WR.

He is more than likely not a qb, great athlete and would love to have him. I just don't see the point of bringing in a project QB when we have nobody capable of teaching them on staff. Stay focused on QB's with good fundamentals and maybe someone decommits from another school do to coaching changes or something than just start recruiting the next guy on the list. And make for dang sure that any QB recruit loves to play the game and wants to be great, not good, but great at his craft. This is where most teams fail in QB recruiting more so than any other position.

I don't understand this. Cam wasn't a finished product coming to Auburn. He matured into a great QB and he didn't do that on his own. Yes he had freakish physical talent, but he also became better at a lot of things under Gus. Nick was an INT machine in JUCO and hadn't played QB at UGA at all. He was never going to be an outstanding pocket passer, but he was a much better QB by the end of his time at Auburn than the beginning. Sean White has no where near the raw talent of those two, but has shown amazing poise and skills.

QBs are a hard thing to predict. I've posted before that this same sort of thing happens other places. Here's the 4-star or higher QBs signed by Alabama since Saban arrived that have failed or yet to produce:

Star Jackson

Philip Sims

Cooper Bateman

David Cornwell

Blake Barnett

He inherited John Parker Wilson and Greg McElroy. Thus far the only highly rated HS QB recruited by Saban that has panned out was AJ McCarron. Jake Coker was a transfer and he couldn't even beat out Blake Sims who was serviceable but couldn't even make a practice squad in the CFL at QB.

Look at LSU in the same timeframe:

Jarrett Lee

Chris Garrett

Russell Shepard (5-star)

Zach Lee

Jarrad Randall

Zach Mettenberger

Anthony Jennings

Hayden Rettig

Brandon Harris

And does anyone remember 5-star Ryan Perriloux a couple of years before that?

Mettenberger was the only one to put up any decent stats. The rest have been mediocre to terrible, under multiple coordinators/QB coaches some of whom had great track records with QBs prior to LSU.

Under Gus/Lashlee, we've had two successes in Cam and Nick. And the only other top rated guy is JJ who has been a bust. Trotter and Moseley were 2-3-star projects who also suffered from a huge talent drain on offense after 2010.

I just don't buy this notion that we "have nobody capable of teaching them on staff."

#facts

#titandropsthemic

Mic drop for what? It has already been stated that neither Les Miles or Nick Saban are or were considered offensive geniuses. There philosophy has always been win with tough defenses and a strong ground game (They pretty much excel at both). Now, when they start having continuously sucky defenses or piss poor Rbs, then you can get back to this.

The same argument applies to A&M. In fact, even moreso. Sumlin's QB signees since arriving in 2012, 4-star or higher:

Matt Davis

Kohl Stewart

Kenny Hill

Kyle Allen (5-star)

Kyler Murray

What exactly has Sumlim shown the last few years with QBs that would instill any confidence? Sure they sling it around more, but to what end? They've been a mess on offense since Manziel left.

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

https://www.seccount...oosing-texas-am

Mond says Coach Mazzone was the key factor.... lol

So Sumlin & Mazzone beat Gus and Rhett for a QB. Ouch. Mazzone? :dunno:/> :lmao:/>

Yeah he spurned a Malzahn offense for a Mazzone offense. Ouch is right.

Mazzone?

[aujeff11 6,243]

An article from the AJC regarding Tray...

https://www.dawgnati...-his-commitment

The decision has not changed.

Tray Bishop still has Auburn, Florida, and Georgia as his three finalists.

What has changed is when he will make that decision.

Bishop has told DawgNation and multiple outlets his commitment date will now be on July 25. That’s a significant change as he’s moved up the time he had in mind back in May some two months. He had hoped to make his college choice known at an early home game for his Terrell County High School football team in Southwest Georgia.

The reason? Bishop said it was simple.

“I didn’t want the distraction,” he said.

He recently told DawgNation he felt he still had a spot in UGA’s class despite the Bulldogs taking their third commitment at receiver earlier this month. The school has only told its top targets that it plans to take four receivers for this year’s signing class.

The nation’s No. 4 athlete and No. 139 overall prospect is now making his decision in less than a month. The 6-foot-3, 190-pounder is rated as the No. 19 player in Georgia for the Class of 2017.

Auburn offers the ability to play multiple positions. There is the ability to play receiver there, but Auburn’s unique offense also affords his sub 4.4-second speed in the 40-yard dash a chance to play quarterback. Bishop has played quarterback extensively for his high school team.

He said that Auburn feels like “home” earlier this month.

Auburn wants him as a quarterback, receiver or safety. Bishop, of course, is very career-focused: He knows his best shot at playing on Sundays is not likely under center. The only way he could succeed at quarterback would be in Auburn’s offense.

“Gus Malzahn told me I am still coming here to Auburn as an athlete,” Bishop said. “But I’m going to get my shot at quarterback if I come here.” Bishop plays quarterback among many positions for his high school team. But he’s not looking to do that on Saturdays. Except at Auburn. (Jeff Sentell / AJC)

Florida brings the opportunity to play defensive back. That’s at safety. He likes the mentality the Gators bring on that side of the ball. If he went to Florida, he would try to become a part of that.

The chance to play at Georgia would be at receiver. UGA is jammed up with receivers right now. The school has three commitments for the Class of 2017 and only plans to take four. Might that be a reason why Bishop has moved up his timetable?

He wasn’t surprised by the fact another receiver wanted to play at Georgia.

“You can expect that with a man like (Jacob) Eason playing quarterback,” Bishop said. “You will most definitely see a lot of guys want to come to Georgia to play catch with him.”

Bishop has planned another trip to UGA in July.

He said earlier this month at Big Cat Weekend that he can’t tell a difference anywhere in which school is recruiting him the hardest. UGA assistants Kevin Sherrer and Auburn assistant Scott Fountain are the two recruiters with whom he has the best relationships.

He also still knows the commitments at Georgia better than his future teammates at any other school.

“I would have to say that because I probably played with more than half of them at the Rising Seniors game,” Bishop said earlier this month. “We all exchanged numbers and we communicate more often that I do with the players going to any other school.”

Bishop admitted earlier this month that he was a part of that “SicEm17” group message chat even though he is not a public UGA commitment. Is he a silent commitment? Bishop didn’t seem like a fan of that strategy at all.

“I might just be all open with it when I make my commitment,” he said. “Because believe me when I make my commitment I will want the whole world to know. That will be a big thing. Everybody has got to know when I make my commitment. I don’t see why I would keep it a secret. That seems like something I’d want to let the whole world know about. That will be a fun day.”

[mcgufcm 4,096]

Noel Mazzone has a pretty solid track record since leaving Auburn. Phillip Rivers at NC State, some NFL experience (even if it was a dumpster fire, I doubt most recruits know what happened with the Man-genius), Brett Hundley and Josh Rosen at UCLA. It's a pretty good list.

As for the "it's as good as anyone could do" comment, I'll stand by it. There may be very, very, very rare exceptions, but unless you're pointing to one guy under Spurrier or Peyton Manning or someone in a very specific/limited role like Tebow, you're not going to find any true Freshman that knocked it out of the park. Leak's 130 QBR is not appreciably different than Mustain's 120 QBR, especially considering the fact that Mustain was winning games. Leak was struggling to do the same. That's about what you can expect from any true Freshman. If Eason starts for UGA this year, they're going to be an 8 win type of team with an up-and-down QB.

You actually saw the same thing with Jared Goff at Cal. You saw the same thing with Rosen at UCLA. True freshman QBs will struggle, and their offenses will stall in unpredictable ways.

Back to Bishop, for my eye, he looks like a rare athlete. He's one of the dudes that I wanted badly in the class from the get-go, but I never really considered him a QB prospect. Who knows. He could surprise everyone. UGA didn't think Nick was accurate enough to play QB, and they thought it would be a waste of his talent. Turns out they were correct about his best position for the NFL but totally wrong about whether he could play QB. Bishop could be another Marshall. I won't judge a guy based on bad mechanics when he plays in a HS triple option offense. A little coaching (no matter what you think of Rhett, he knows enough to get his guys above the level of a HS option coach) can go a long way with guys like that. Personally, I'll be disappointed that an athlete like this isn't at Safety or out in space on offense, but I won't write him off as a QB either.

[steeleagle 2,945]

I think it looks like T Bishop will be given the opportunity by Gus at QB because he is running out of QB options for that recruiting year.

If it helps TB commit to us, then it worked. Once he gets here, practices at QB for one year, and Gus recruits better at QB in succeeding recruiting years, then look to see TB at WR or DB.

I think its the only option GM can play at this time for that recruiting year, unless Narcisse flips.

And i am not totally going to say GM and RL are terrible QB developers, as I saw Cam at our spring game, and how he improved during the season. I saw Nick get better during his 2 years at QB coming from a JC. Even if they were transfers, it still requires development to succeed in the SEC.

[ellitor 33,076]

https://www.seccount...oosing-texas-am

Mond says Coach Mazzone was the key factor.... lol

So Sumlin & Mazzone beat Gus and Rhett for a QB. Ouch. Mazzone? :dunno:/> :lmao:/>

Yeah he spurned a Malzahn offense for a Mazzone offense. Ouch is right.

If people are actually gullible to believe it. That quote was all Aggie spin. The real reason he picked aTm was the in state pressure from the aTm network of supporters.

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

https://www.seccount...oosing-texas-am

Mond says Coach Mazzone was the key factor.... lol

So Sumlin & Mazzone beat Gus and Rhett for a QB. Ouch. Mazzone? :dunno:/> :lmao:/>

Yeah he spurned a Malzahn offense for a Mazzone offense. Ouch is right.

If people are actually gullible to believe it. That quote was all Aggie spin. The real reason he picked aTm was the in state pressure from the aTm network of supporters.

I know its spin but damn it makes AU look bad. Mazzone. LOL. And Mond didn't pick A&M because of the network. That is the AU spin.

[ellitor 33,076]

My take on Tray Bishop's recruitment.

If the article Jeff posted above is correct that UGA only wants him as a WR & are only taking 4 w/ 3 committed now then I think AU has the advantage here. UGA still looks to be the favorite for 4* WR Jeremiah Holloman. If they get JH it appears they would be done @ WR. I have not heard much chatter about Tray wanting to play DB @ UF. His commit date is 2 days after the big 2nd annual AU recruit picnic weekend. Looks like AU to me.

As a recruit I see him as a less physical Rico Louis. Both played QB in high school and very good after the ball is in their hands. If Tray has better hands than Rico did at AU I think he could do well as a WR.

[ellitor 33,076]

https://www.seccount...oosing-texas-am

Mond says Coach Mazzone was the key factor.... lol

So Sumlin & Mazzone beat Gus and Rhett for a QB. Ouch. Mazzone? :dunno:/> :lmao:/>

Yeah he spurned a Malzahn offense for a Mazzone offense. Ouch is right.

If people are actually gullible to believe it. That quote was all Aggie spin. The real reason he picked aTm was the in state pressure from the aTm network of supporters.

I know its spin but damn it makes AU look bad. Mazzone. LOL. And Mond didn't pick A&M because of the network. That is the AU spin.

Fair enough but Keith is not one to usually spin things like that.

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

https://www.seccount...oosing-texas-am

Mond says Coach Mazzone was the key factor.... lol

So Sumlin & Mazzone beat Gus and Rhett for a QB. Ouch. Mazzone? :dunno:/> :lmao:/>

Yeah he spurned a Malzahn offense for a Mazzone offense. Ouch is right.

If people are actually gullible to believe it. That quote was all Aggie spin. The real reason he picked aTm was the in state pressure from the aTm network of supporters.

I know its spin but damn it makes AU look bad. Mazzone. LOL. And Mond didn't pick A&M because of the network. That is the AU spin.

Fair enough but Keith is not one to usually spin things like that.

And I'm sure that is what the staff is saying. And I do believe it did have a little impact. And I also think Mond made a huge mistake. Been the man in Gus's offense. Mond just had too many people in his ear and took what he and his family though was the safe deal.

[ellitor 33,076]

And I'm sure that is what the staff is saying. And I do believe it did have a little impact. And I also think Mond made a huge mistake. Been the man in Gus's offense. Mond just had too many people in his ear and took what he and his family though was the safe deal.

Can't blame him.

[DAG 33,957]

just go all balls in keeping Gatewood and the heck with this year

Come on now

what, u wanna sign a qb just to say we signed one this year, 38-40 of the top 40 are committed already. best hope is for a coaching change and opportunity

Well he's not just a QB though. He is a very good athlete that could excel @ WR.

He is more than likely not a qb, great athlete and would love to have him. I just don't see the point of bringing in a project QB when we have nobody capable of teaching them on staff. Stay focused on QB's with good fundamentals and maybe someone decommits from another school do to coaching changes or something than just start recruiting the next guy on the list. And make for dang sure that any QB recruit loves to play the game and wants to be great, not good, but great at his craft. This is where most teams fail in QB recruiting more so than any other position.

I don't understand this. Cam wasn't a finished product coming to Auburn. He matured into a great QB and he didn't do that on his own. Yes he had freakish physical talent, but he also became better at a lot of things under Gus. Nick was an INT machine in JUCO and hadn't played QB at UGA at all. He was never going to be an outstanding pocket passer, but he was a much better QB by the end of his time at Auburn than the beginning. Sean White has no where near the raw talent of those two, but has shown amazing poise and skills.

QBs are a hard thing to predict. I've posted before that this same sort of thing happens other places. Here's the 4-star or higher QBs signed by Alabama since Saban arrived that have failed or yet to produce:

Star Jackson

Philip Sims

Cooper Bateman

David Cornwell

Blake Barnett

He inherited John Parker Wilson and Greg McElroy. Thus far the only highly rated HS QB recruited by Saban that has panned out was AJ McCarron. Jake Coker was a transfer and he couldn't even beat out Blake Sims who was serviceable but couldn't even make a practice squad in the CFL at QB.

Look at LSU in the same timeframe:

Jarrett Lee

Chris Garrett

Russell Shepard (5-star)

Zach Lee

Jarrad Randall

Zach Mettenberger

Anthony Jennings

Hayden Rettig

Brandon Harris

And does anyone remember 5-star Ryan Perriloux a couple of years before that?

Mettenberger was the only one to put up any decent stats. The rest have been mediocre to terrible, under multiple coordinators/QB coaches some of whom had great track records with QBs prior to LSU.

Under Gus/Lashlee, we've had two successes in Cam and Nick. And the only other top rated guy is JJ who has been a bust. Trotter and Moseley were 2-3-star projects who also suffered from a huge talent drain on offense after 2010.

I just don't buy this notion that we "have nobody capable of teaching them on staff."

#facts

#titandropsthemic

Mic drop for what? It has already been stated that neither Les Miles or Nick Saban are or were considered offensive geniuses. There philosophy has always been win with tough defenses and a strong ground game (They pretty much excel at both). Now, when they start having continuously sucky defenses or piss poor Rbs, then you can get back to this.

The same argument applies to A&M. In fact, even moreso. Sumlin's QB signees since arriving in 2012, 4-star or higher:

Matt Davis

Kohl Stewart

Kenny Hill

Kyle Allen (5-star)

Kyler Murray

What exactly has Sumlim shown the last few years with QBs that would instill any confidence? Sure they sling it around more, but to what end? They've been a mess on offense since Manziel left.

And exactly who is instilling confidence in him? From my view point, both Coach Sumlin and Gus have been heavily criticized and better show great improvement or else they will be sitting on the sun.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

just go all balls in keeping Gatewood and the heck with this year

Come on now

what, u wanna sign a qb just to say we signed one this year, 38-40 of the top 40 are committed already. best hope is for a coaching change and opportunity

Well he's not just a QB though. He is a very good athlete that could excel @ WR.

He is more than likely not a qb, great athlete and would love to have him. I just don't see the point of bringing in a project QB when we have nobody capable of teaching them on staff. Stay focused on QB's with good fundamentals and maybe someone decommits from another school do to coaching changes or something than just start recruiting the next guy on the list. And make for dang sure that any QB recruit loves to play the game and wants to be great, not good, but great at his craft. This is where most teams fail in QB recruiting more so than any other position.

I don't understand this. Cam wasn't a finished product coming to Auburn. He matured into a great QB and he didn't do that on his own. Yes he had freakish physical talent, but he also became better at a lot of things under Gus. Nick was an INT machine in JUCO and hadn't played QB at UGA at all. He was never going to be an outstanding pocket passer, but he was a much better QB by the end of his time at Auburn than the beginning. Sean White has no where near the raw talent of those two, but has shown amazing poise and skills.

QBs are a hard thing to predict. I've posted before that this same sort of thing happens other places. Here's the 4-star or higher QBs signed by Alabama since Saban arrived that have failed or yet to produce:

Star Jackson

Philip Sims

Cooper Bateman

David Cornwell

Blake Barnett

He inherited John Parker Wilson and Greg McElroy. Thus far the only highly rated HS QB recruited by Saban that has panned out was AJ McCarron. Jake Coker was a transfer and he couldn't even beat out Blake Sims who was serviceable but couldn't even make a practice squad in the CFL at QB.

Look at LSU in the same timeframe:

Jarrett Lee

Chris Garrett

Russell Shepard (5-star)

Zach Lee

Jarrad Randall

Zach Mettenberger

Anthony Jennings

Hayden Rettig

Brandon Harris

And does anyone remember 5-star Ryan Perriloux a couple of years before that?

Mettenberger was the only one to put up any decent stats. The rest have been mediocre to terrible, under multiple coordinators/QB coaches some of whom had great track records with QBs prior to LSU.

Under Gus/Lashlee, we've had two successes in Cam and Nick. And the only other top rated guy is JJ who has been a bust. Trotter and Moseley were 2-3-star projects who also suffered from a huge talent drain on offense after 2010.

I just don't buy this notion that we "have nobody capable of teaching them on staff."

#facts

#titandropsthemic

Mic drop for what? It has already been stated that neither Les Miles or Nick Saban are or were considered offensive geniuses. There philosophy has always been win with tough defenses and a strong ground game (They pretty much excel at both). Now, when they start having continuously sucky defenses or piss poor Rbs, then you can get back to this.

The same argument applies to A&M. In fact, even moreso. Sumlin's QB signees since arriving in 2012, 4-star or higher:

Matt Davis

Kohl Stewart

Kenny Hill

Kyle Allen (5-star)

Kyler Murray

What exactly has Sumlim shown the last few years with QBs that would instill any confidence? Sure they sling it around more, but to what end? They've been a mess on offense since Manziel left.

And exactly who is instilling confidence in him? From my view point, both Coach Sumlin and Gus have been heavily criticized and better show great improvement or else they will be sitting on the sun.

This entire thing got started because Kellen Mond chose A&M over us and now some think we're looking at Tray Bishop as our next in line QB target. I'm asking people here who think that the negative recruiting against us on this issue has merit why they don't apply the same standard of thinking to our rivals, including the very team Mond just picked over us.

[AUApostle 7,651]

Gus can't close the deal on his top choice(s) at QB. He's had many seasons to do it and hasn't managed it thus far. Yes, he's gotten Woody, Sean, and Jeremy...but those were not first choice guys like Watson, Harris, and the french sounding guy that went to FSU a couple of years ago. There have been others. If Gatewood sticks, it'll be his first.

We can have a crappy defense and still get guys like Lawson...but heaven forbid we get our top choice at QB.

[aujeff11 6,243]

just go all balls in keeping Gatewood and the heck with this year

Come on now

what, u wanna sign a qb just to say we signed one this year, 38-40 of the top 40 are committed already. best hope is for a coaching change and opportunity

Well he's not just a QB though. He is a very good athlete that could excel @ WR.

He is more than likely not a qb, great athlete and would love to have him. I just don't see the point of bringing in a project QB when we have nobody capable of teaching them on staff. Stay focused on QB's with good fundamentals and maybe someone decommits from another school do to coaching changes or something than just start recruiting the next guy on the list. And make for dang sure that any QB recruit loves to play the game and wants to be great, not good, but great at his craft. This is where most teams fail in QB recruiting more so than any other position.

I don't understand this. Cam wasn't a finished product coming to Auburn. He matured into a great QB and he didn't do that on his own. Yes he had freakish physical talent, but he also became better at a lot of things under Gus. Nick was an INT machine in JUCO and hadn't played QB at UGA at all. He was never going to be an outstanding pocket passer, but he was a much better QB by the end of his time at Auburn than the beginning. Sean White has no where near the raw talent of those two, but has shown amazing poise and skills.

QBs are a hard thing to predict. I've posted before that this same sort of thing happens other places. Here's the 4-star or higher QBs signed by Alabama since Saban arrived that have failed or yet to produce:

Star Jackson

Philip Sims

Cooper Bateman

David Cornwell

Blake Barnett

He inherited John Parker Wilson and Greg McElroy. Thus far the only highly rated HS QB recruited by Saban that has panned out was AJ McCarron. Jake Coker was a transfer and he couldn't even beat out Blake Sims who was serviceable but couldn't even make a practice squad in the CFL at QB.

Look at LSU in the same timeframe:

Jarrett Lee

Chris Garrett

Russell Shepard (5-star)

Zach Lee

Jarrad Randall

Zach Mettenberger

Anthony Jennings

Hayden Rettig

Brandon Harris

And does anyone remember 5-star Ryan Perriloux a couple of years before that?

Mettenberger was the only one to put up any decent stats. The rest have been mediocre to terrible, under multiple coordinators/QB coaches some of whom had great track records with QBs prior to LSU.

Under Gus/Lashlee, we've had two successes in Cam and Nick. And the only other top rated guy is JJ who has been a bust. Trotter and Moseley were 2-3-star projects who also suffered from a huge talent drain on offense after 2010.

I just don't buy this notion that we "have nobody capable of teaching them on staff."

#facts

#titandropsthemic

Mic drop for what? It has already been stated that neither Les Miles or Nick Saban are or were considered offensive geniuses. There philosophy has always been win with tough defenses and a strong ground game (They pretty much excel at both). Now, when they start having continuously sucky defenses or piss poor Rbs, then you can get back to this.

The same argument applies to A&M. In fact, even moreso. Sumlin's QB signees since arriving in 2012, 4-star or higher:

Matt Davis

Kohl Stewart

Kenny Hill

Kyle Allen (5-star)

Kyler Murray

What exactly has Sumlim shown the last few years with QBs that would instill any confidence? Sure they sling it around more, but to what end? They've been a mess on offense since Manziel left.

And exactly who is instilling confidence in him? From my view point, both Coach Sumlin and Gus have been heavily criticized and better show great improvement or else they will be sitting on the sun.

This entire thing got started because Kellen Mond chose A&M over us and now some think we're looking at Tray Bishop as our next in line QB target. I'm asking people here who think that the negative recruiting against us on this issue has merit why they don't apply the same standard of thinking to our rivals, including the very team Mond just picked over us.

Ir really doesn't matter what we think. What matters is what the recruits think and what the recruits are being told by their critics.

As far as Sumlin, if you check his resume he has worked with a lot of good QBs. Jason White, Sam Bradford, Case Keenum, Manziel. If anything, and like I said before, I think Sumlin is escaping his critics primarily because people think there are much bigger cultural issues that have affected the football program.