Jordan-Hare Stadium Renovation

[RunInRed 16,400]

I'm probably overly nitpicking here but don't these two renderings look a little different?

Another difference in the 2 renderings is that right underneath the top deck in the second rendering there are box seats, but in the top one there are actual seats.

Yes.

Also, the row(s)? Of skyboxes look different in the two images - including how they extend do/do not connect to the east and west sides of the stadium.

[au75 75]

I think one picture has the press box moved to the end zone.

[channonc 466]

I get the feeling this is shaping up to be Jacobs' legacy project. I read somewhere his public pension kicks in soon. If that is the case, and he isn't looking to retire, he will become embattled pretty quickly.

If an athletic director could spend his way into success, he has tried his hardest to do that. We have hired-then-fired all of the head coaches from he big 3 sports over the last 5 years. The building drive he led probably dwarfs any buyouts the boosters are paying.

He elevated the guy that got us on probation. Named the field for Dye, which is kind of sick. But, it's entirely understandable. Because he has let the guy stick around in the background to pull strings and meddle. Which is probably why we are a stepping stone location for great assistant talent.

And then we get to the issue of the North Endzone renovation. On paper, it looks pretty good. Though, we have absolutely no need for upper decks in the end zone at this time. If they think the market will support the prices they need in order to finance the project, we are all in for a rude awakening.

The Gumps can get away with doing it, because the state is full of Turds who will pay anything to see their beloved Dodge-drivers beat up on NE S Central Louisiana Tech & Military University.

But, when WE have a non-SEC opponent, we don't hit capacity. (See Tennessee)

It's not an issue of who has a better school or performance on the field. It's simply demographics. There are simply more Walmart shoppers within driving distance to Tuscaloosa than there are Auburn fans to support a similar capacity here.

I'm all for the expansion of mass-affluent seating. But, we don't need a second video board. And, we could certainly stand to REMOVE as many as 10,000 seats.

Our bleacher seats are numbered for 32" waists. Multiple times this year, my guests complained of cramped seating. Thanked me and said they didn't want to go again. http://www.usatoday....o-toe.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.c...o-toe.html?_r=0

The North Endzone, if renovated, needs plastic backed "Fat Boy" seats. Reconfigure everything to give those areas 20-30% less capacity. Then you can talk about charging twice as much as it costs to get Falcons season tickets.

In the long run, people are going to save their money for 65" TVs and forgo live sporting events. We would do well to adapt rather than expand. (See Stanford)

This is in a nutshell what I responded in the "comments" part of the survey. I told them that I also go to NFL games, and that they are inching closer to NFL prices, therefore I will start expecting an NFL experience. And an actual SEAT is on the top of that list. I'm not big by any means, but seating has become so incredibly cramped. Luckily we have end seats and often end up spilling into the aisle. The food selection is lacking, and quite frankly, I wouldn't be opposed to selling beer in the stadium. But adding seats I think is a waste. People simply aren't coming and to add seats cost money which means ticket prices and or TUF minimum donation amount go up. At some point, that money is better spent elsewhere and I can watch the games at home.

Did you completely miss the point of the renovation....? It will add concessions. The purpose of it isn't to expand the capacity.

I didn't miss it at all. Adding concession stands does not increase the quality of the food options. Also, there's no way adding an upper deck doesn't add SOME capacity. The capacity in the lower level will get shifted around between regular TUF and premium ticket holders.

Basically, my beef is that they need to be thinking about making the regular seats nicer. Club level seats shouldn't be the only ones that are actual seats. That's my bigger beef. At the prices they are charging, and since they are already renovating they should go ahead and put in real seats and not bleachers that don't fit anyone that's bigger than Kate Moss. If they want me to pay a premium price, they should provide a premium experience.

[steeleagle 2,945]

I agree with this comment below. I have no problem with a bettter scoreboard for those on the other end that cant see the new video screen. I want a better North endzone for the players and the needs of the football program.

BUT..as a fan..i feel the need to improve the existing seats or with the new seats..that MORE backed seats are added to better serve those of us who have been paying TUF for years...and never seen any improvement to just our seating areas, and to those in the future who want to contribute to TUF and enjoy the game...as well as the food they provide and the video displays we enjoy.

again BETTER seating....please...

Basically, my beef is that they need to be thinking about making the regular seats nicer. Club level seats shouldn't be the only ones that are actual seats. That's my bigger beef. At the prices they are charging, and since they are already renovating they should go ahead and put in real seats and not bleachers that don't fit anyone that's bigger than Kate Moss. If they want me to pay a premium price, they should provide a premium experience.

[BigAub 0]

Personally, the best option for a renovation would have been to totally gut all of the original bowl structure of Jordan-Hare and replace it with premium chair-back seating. You can't just put chair-back seating where bench seating is - the space doesn't work out. It takes about five rows of bench seating to accommodate four rows of chair-back seating. The folks over in Tuscaloosa just crammed in some chair-back seating between the 30's and it's miserable sit in those seats - partly because you are surrounded by the nasty houndstooth clad redneck fans, but mainly because your knees are jammed against the back of the seat in front of you. There just isn't enough room.

So to replace the benches with chair-backs, you'd have to remove all of the concrete under foot - and if you're doing that, you might as well totally demolish and start over with the original bowl seating at Jordan-Hare.

That's what they did at the Citrus Bowl in Orlando. It wouldn't be cheap - way more than $140 million, but in the long run, I think it would be a better fan experience and worth the money. The Citrus Bowl spent $200 million

Here's a picture from the Citrus Bowl during renovation.

Citrus Bowl with new seats:

I agree with this comment below. I have no problem with a bettter scoreboard for those on the other end that cant see the new video screen. I want a better North endzone for the players and the needs of the football program.

BUT..as a fan..i feel the need to improve the existing seats or with the new seats..that MORE backed seats are added to better serve those of us who have been paying TUF for years...and never seen any improvement to just our seating areas, and to those in the future who want to contribute to TUF and enjoy the game...as well as the food they provide and the video displays we enjoy.

again BETTER seating....please...

Basically, my beef is that they need to be thinking about making the regular seats nicer. Club level seats shouldn't be the only ones that are actual seats. That's my bigger beef. At the prices they are charging, and since they are already renovating they should go ahead and put in real seats and not bleachers that don't fit anyone that's bigger than Kate Moss. If they want me to pay a premium price, they should provide a premium experience.

[EagleReedle 14]

Many are concerned about the $ and sense of the matter - I trust the due diligence has been done which is why I wonder, is it wrong to be more worried about CTE's and how it's going to significantly alter football or am I just a victim of Frontline documentaries?

[logan adams 333]

Many are concerned about the $ and sense of the matter - I trust the due diligence has been done which is why I wonder, is it wrong to be more worried about CTE's and how it's going to significantly alter football or am I just a victim of Frontline documentaries?

CTE's?

[cooltigger21 0]

Many are concerned about the $ and sense of the matter - I trust the due diligence has been done which is why I wonder, is it wrong to be more worried about CTE's and how it's going to significantly alter football or am I just a victim of Frontline documentaries?

CTE's?

Concussions

[WarTiger 3,901]

I get the feeling this is shaping up to be Jacobs' legacy project. I read somewhere his public pension kicks in soon. If that is the case, and he isn't looking to retire, he will become embattled pretty quickly.

If an athletic director could spend his way into success, he has tried his hardest to do that. We have hired-then-fired all of the head coaches from he big 3 sports over the last 5 years. The building drive he led probably dwarfs any buyouts the boosters are paying.

He elevated the guy that got us on probation. Named the field for Dye, which is kind of sick. But, it's entirely understandable. Because he has let the guy stick around in the background to pull strings and meddle. Which is probably why we are a stepping stone location for great assistant talent.

And then we get to the issue of the North Endzone renovation. On paper, it looks pretty good. Though, we have absolutely no need for upper decks in the end zone at this time. If they think the market will support the prices they need in order to finance the project, we are all in for a rude awakening.

The Gumps can get away with doing it, because the state is full of Turds who will pay anything to see their beloved Dodge-drivers beat up on NE S Central Louisiana Tech & Military University.

But, when WE have a non-SEC opponent, we don't hit capacity. (See Tennessee)

It's not an issue of who has a better school or performance on the field. It's simply demographics. There are simply more Walmart shoppers within driving distance to Tuscaloosa than there are Auburn fans to support a similar capacity here.

I'm all for the expansion of mass-affluent seating. But, we don't need a second video board. And, we could certainly stand to REMOVE as many as 10,000 seats.

Our bleacher seats are numbered for 32" waists. Multiple times this year, my guests complained of cramped seating. Thanked me and said they didn't want to go again. http://www.usatoday....o-toe.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.c...o-toe.html?_r=0

The North Endzone, if renovated, needs plastic backed "Fat Boy" seats. Reconfigure everything to give those areas 20-30% less capacity. Then you can talk about charging twice as much as it costs to get Falcons season tickets.

In the long run, people are going to save their money for 65" TVs and forgo live sporting events. We would do well to adapt rather than expand. (See Stanford)

This is in a nutshell what I responded in the "comments" part of the survey. I told them that I also go to NFL games, and that they are inching closer to NFL prices, therefore I will start expecting an NFL experience. And an actual SEAT is on the top of that list. I'm not big by any means, but seating has become so incredibly cramped. Luckily we have end seats and often end up spilling into the aisle. The food selection is lacking, and quite frankly, I wouldn't be opposed to selling beer in the stadium. But adding seats I think is a waste. People simply aren't coming and to add seats cost money which means ticket prices and or TUF minimum donation amount go up. At some point, that money is better spent elsewhere and I can watch the games at home.

Did you completely miss the point of the renovation....? It will add concessions. The purpose of it isn't to expand the capacity.

I didn't miss it at all. Adding concession stands does not increase the quality of the food options. It does when you are also adding new options to the concession menu. But don't let facts get in your way. It's always wise to have the entire story. Also, there's no way adding an upper deck doesn't add SOME capacity. The capacity in the lower level will get shifted around between regular TUF and premium ticket holders. It's not adding an upper deck. It's RENOVATING The endzone to add suites and that DESPERATELY NEEDED. There's a huge demand for those. It may MARGINALLY increase seating capacity but its' not going to be anything significant like you seem to think here.

Basically, my beef is that they need to be thinking about making the regular seats nicer. Club level seats shouldn't be the only ones that are actual seats. That's my bigger beef. At the prices they are charging, and since they are already renovating they should go ahead and put in real seats and not bleachers that don't fit anyone that's bigger than Kate Moss. If they want me to pay a premium price, they should provide a premium experience.

[PatBoCamRob 30]

I wouldn't go so far as to remove the lower bowl. But I would take 2 or more seats out of every row. Maybe a mass affluent section in the north end zone is a way to coax people away from the gold zone. But, I think I speak for everyone here that $3k/season for bleacher seats anywhere- which is what they want for new scholarship donors, is not where the market is. And it's going to be hard to find demand of 5-10k people who want end zone seats for $2,500-3,500/season regardless of whether it's on aluminum bleachers or plush leather sofas catered by Chris Hastings.

[lovemyautigers 0]

What will happen to all the faculty and staff seats? Many of us have been sitting in this end zone for many years. We love section 44, we've been here for 20 years.

[AU-24 3,063]

This thread is way to civilized compared to when this topic is brought up over the past 6 years.. where are the anti expansion folks/mods

Civilized? I just questioned the whole athletic department...

This plan defies math.

Actually I think you are incorrect. If the cost of the renovation is $140 million and you borrow 100% of that money over 20 years at a 5% rate, you will be making payments of about $11 million per year.

Let's assume that there are 4,500 seats that go from being general season tickets (generating $500 per seat) and they start generating $3,000 per seat - an increase of $2,500 per seat. Then $2,500 times 4,500 seats is $11 million a year - so break-even.

This also doesn't count the revenue that will be generated by moving the press box to the northwest end zone (great move, by the way) and placing premium seating in the location of the current press box. Those seats will be the best in the stadium and will be much more expensive than $3,000 per seat I'm sure.

There will also be some philanthropic donations - I'm sure the north end zone club will become the "Mr. and Mrs. Bigbucks Zone" club after someone donates $10 million for naming privileges.

The question is, can we sell 4,500 premium tickets at an average of $3,000 per seat in the north end zone - and i believe the answer is 'yes'. I think the worst case scenario is that the expansion is a break-even - and realistically it will generate a few million more per year in spendable revenue.

What all comes with the $3G's. Same as scholarship tickets or more or less than?

I was told by someone in the athletics department that the days of everyone paying $3,000 for a club level seat ('scholarship seat') will go away with the new renovation. Seats will be priced based on their location and their amenities. It may even be that seats in the same section will cost different amounts. For example, if you have a club seat that is not covered, you may pay $2,500, but if you have a seat a couple rows further back and it is covered by the overhang, you may pay $4,000.

If this is correct, this is absolutely the correct way to price seating. Why should someone sitting in a club seat in the end zone that is exposed to sun and rain pay the same as someone who sits on the 50 yard line in a seat protected from sun and rain.

The north end zone club will have "expanded food and full-bar service". The field club seats would have 'premium food and full cash bar service". Those quotes are directly from the online survey sent out by the athletics department. I would imagine that the existing club seating areas (North, South, Nelson) would be upgraded to include bar service, but that's just a guess.

Thanks, guess we will have to wait and see.

[War Knight 514]

The obnoxious and consistent rise in season ticket prices has madw renovations irrelevant to me. For the first time in 6 years my family will not be getting them. The amount you have to 'donate' to get good seats is insane.

[auburn4ever 1,266]

Even though pictures look really good, I still believe we should go with bowl look all the way around. That way you could close both endzones.

[logan adams 333]

Even though pictures look really good, I still believe we should go with bowl look all the way around. That way you could close both endzones.

We just invested in a new video board. We don't have a reason to expand to 100k+. I expect for this renovation to add a couple thousand seats, putting us right over 90k. I think that'll be a comfortable number for us. Keep in mind, we don't have that much room to build outwards where the current large video board is. The ground there will not support an entire upper deck there.

[PatBoCamRob 30]

The obnoxious and consistent rise in season ticket prices has madw renovations irrelevant to me. For the first time in 6 years my family will not be getting them. The amount you have to 'donate' to get good seats is insane.

Basically what I keep saying. The AD is out of touch. Any more ticket increases will price out the fans, if they haven't already.

Priority donations are up almost 20% since 2011.

Do they think this is New York or San Francisco?

The top 1% of Alabama earners make $272K. top 1% map

Let's say we implement a program where new scholarship seats in the Orange and Gold zones are $3,000/seat/season (they have already done this) and seating in the new "NZone" is $3,000/seat/season (what they propose)... Do they really think the demand will be there?!

Back to the $272k... Yields what? 50k-100k in taxes, and 100-150k in living expenses, savings, etc. So, they have about 50-100K for travel, gifts, parties, clubs, dining out, donations, etc.

Is it worth 1/10th of your disposable income for 2 tickets to 7 games? Haven't covered gas and potential hotel yet, either.

Alabama has 5 million people. Out of them, it's likely 50% UA, 30% AU, and 10% other. http://www.nytimes.c...,31.955,-85.266

So 1% x 30% x 5M = 15,000.

Let's add in western Georgia, where we are tracking around 8-10% . I'll spitball here... 10% of 2M x 1% = 2,000.

Let's grab Pensacola, Destin, Panama City, Nashville, Chattanooga, etc. Call that another 5-10K people.

--------

32,000 1%ers

or

15,000 in high likelihood of driving areas (What we gain from W Georgia, we lose from Mobile.)

17,000 in relevant, but not easy locations.

Again, I'm spitballing. But I defy anyone to question the general validity of these numbers.

If the pickup rate is 50% of the high likelihood and 25% of the lower likelihood, you have 11,750.

Where is the market to double our luxury seating?

Top 2%? Pickup rate would drop off significantly, as their disposable income is lower.

"Well, PatBoCamRob, you are ignoring that they can sell the tickets they don't use. AU now has a fan marketplace on Stubhub."

They are going to do that for one season and realize that TUF and ticket prices have come up so much that it's cheaper to buy for the games they want to go to, than to buy season tickets.

"PBCR, you are just making crap up."

Am I? I'm sure I'm missing a lot.

I'm sure the target market extends to the top 10%.

I'm also sure "buddies" will team up to buy 2 seats together.

But, part of my point is that we've more than doubled the price for new seats inside the 20s. This is a drastic change. I know plenty of people that dropped out, even from "buddy" seats when we went up 20%, not 2x.

Another major issue is that we are ignoring the fact that college football has likely peaked, especially for the state of Alabama. We want to make a large capital expenditure, to be financed over 20 years, based on the popularity of college football in Alabama today?

Anyone who thinks this state is going to produce the quality of football over the next 2 decades that it has in the last decade needs a lesson on the law of large numbers.

Have we planned for the potential loss in popularity of football from concussion studies or lack of success? What about when the NCAA rules in favor of player compensation? A 20 year clock starts ticking when we issue the bonds to pay for the NZone.

Further, everything that can be done to exploit revenue in college football has been done. This project, and the ticket prices that are needed to fund it, is "one toke over the line." We need to dial it back.

TLDR version: Alabama charges, on the HIGH end, 1/2 to 2/3 what we want to charge for mass affluent seating...

http://grfx.cstv.com...ating-chart.pdf

This past year's priority.

The white stripes indicate areas where new season tickets will cost $3,000/seat/season.

[auburn4ever 1,266]

The increase price of tickets increases have just about done in your every day fan.

[cooltigger21 0]

The obnoxious and consistent rise in season ticket prices has madw renovations irrelevant to me. For the first time in 6 years my family will not be getting them. The amount you have to 'donate' to get good seats is insane.

Basically what I keep saying. The AD is out of touch. Any more ticket increases will price out the fans, if they haven't already.

Priority donations are up almost 20% since 2011.

Do they think this is New York or San Francisco?

The top 1% of Alabama earners make $272K. top 1% map

Let's say we implement a program where new scholarship seats in the Orange and Gold zones are $3,000/seat/season (they have already done this) and seating in the new "NZone" is $3,000/seat/season (what they propose)... Do they really think the demand will be there?!

Back to the $272k... Yields what? 50k-100k in taxes, and 100-150k in living expenses, savings, etc. So, they have about 50-100K for travel, gifts, parties, clubs, dining out, donations, etc.

Is it worth 1/10th of your disposable income for 2 tickets to 7 games? Haven't covered gas and potential hotel yet, either.

Alabama has 5 million people. Out of them, it's likely 50% UA, 30% AU, and 10% other. http://www.nytimes.c...,31.955,-85.266

So 1% x 30% x 5M = 15,000.

Let's add in western Georgia, where we are tracking around 8-10% . I'll spitball here... 10% of 2M x 1% = 2,000.

Let's grab Pensacola, Destin, Panama City, Nashville, Chattanooga, etc. Call that another 5-10K people.

--------

32,000 1%ers

or

15,000 in high likelihood of driving areas (What we gain from W Georgia, we lose from Mobile.)

17,000 in relevant, but not easy locations.

Again, I'm spitballing. But I defy anyone to question the general validity of these numbers.

If the pickup rate is 50% of the high likelihood and 25% of the lower likelihood, you have 11,750.

Where is the market to double our luxury seating?

Top 2%? Pickup rate would drop off significantly, as their disposable income is lower.

"Well, PatBoCamRob, you are ignoring that they can sell the tickets they don't use. AU now has a fan marketplace on Stubhub."

They are going to do that for one season and realize that TUF and ticket prices have come up so much that it's cheaper to buy for the games they want to go to, than to buy season tickets.

"PBCR, you are just making crap up."

Am I? I'm sure I'm missing a lot.

I'm sure the target market extends to the top 10%.

I'm also sure "buddies" will team up to buy 2 seats together.

But, part of my point is that we've more than doubled the price for new seats inside the 20s. This is a drastic change. I know plenty of people that dropped out, even from "buddy" seats when we went up 20%, not 2x.

Another major issue is that we are ignoring the fact that college football has likely peaked, especially for the state of Alabama. We want to make a large capital expenditure, to be financed over 20 years, based on the popularity of college football in Alabama today?

Anyone who thinks this state is going to produce the quality of football over the next 2 decades that it has in the last decade needs a lesson on the law of large numbers.

Have we planned for the potential loss in popularity of football from concussion studies or lack of success? What about when the NCAA rules in favor of player compensation? A 20 year clock starts ticking when we issue the bonds to pay for the NZone.

Further, everything that can be done to exploit revenue in college football has been done. This project, and the ticket prices that are needed to fund it, is "one toke over the line." We need to dial it back.

TLDR version: Alabama charges, on the HIGH end, 1/2 to 2/3 what we want to charge for mass affluent seating...

http://grfx.cstv.com...ating-chart.pdf

This past year's priority.

The white stripes indicate areas where new season tickets will cost $3,000/seat/season.

Corporations will take up the slack. That's probably what this is for anyway. Take some clients to a few games each year and either give the tickets to some of the employees or just sell them. That's what the NFL has become.

[EagleReedle 14]

Even though pictures look really good, I still believe we should go with bowl look all the way around. That way you could close both endzones.

We just invested in a new video board. We don't have a reason to expand to 100k+. I expect for this renovation to add a couple thousand seats, putting us right over 90k. I think that'll be a comfortable number for us. Keep in mind, we don't have that much room to build outwards where the current large video board is. The ground there will not support an entire upper deck there.

can we sell the video board investment? <-- everyone i've talked to in person about it just rolls there eyes and I feel the same way. The renderings posted here make it look much better but I think I may be looking at the sound end zone rendering. We will see a greater return on investment this time around if we do it right, w/ better cushier seating and especially suites - i know at bama the suites are real popular as you can take alcohol in to them so it's just an added incentive for the wealthy. obviously if we can tip 90k capacity that'd be a real point of prick waving pride, a 100k capacity and we are full-on rogering the turds. <--pun not intended.

[PatBoCamRob 30]

Which corporations Cooltigger?

The state of Alabama lacks the kind of businesses you see in major markets.

http://www.al.com/business/index.ssf/2014/06/what_are_the_largest_companies.html

Regions has been no friend to AU. Took them years after issuing UAT themed credit cards to do an AU card.

Compass is foreign owned. Hyundai... Foreign owned.

Alabama Power... Yes, they're friendly.

Drummond? Nope.

Most of the Bham companies on that list? Nope.

What we're looking for are like investment bankers that want to send lawmakers to a game, or doctors, or vets, or engineers. We probably don't get boxes taken by law firms the way UAT does.

We'll get car dealerships and industrial supply manufacturers. Locally owned companies... But it's still a bottom line thing. There's a company owner that loses 60c for every $ spent on client entertainment or employee perks.

[cooltigger21 0]

Which corporations Cooltigger?

The state of Alabama lacks the kind of businesses you see in major markets.

http://www.al.com/business/index.ssf/2014/06/what_are_the_largest_companies.html

Regions has been no friend to AU. Took them years after issuing UAT themed credit cards to do an AU card.

Compass is foreign owned. Hyundai... Foreign owned.

Alabama Power... Yes, they're friendly.

Drummond? Nope.

Most of the Bham companies on that list? Nope.

What we're looking for are like investment bankers that want to send lawmakers to a game, or doctors, or vets, or engineers. We probably don't get boxes taken by law firms the way UAT does.

We'll get car dealerships and industrial supply manufacturers. Locally owned companies... But it's still a bottom line thing. There's a company owner that loses 60c for every $ spent on client entertainment or employee perks.

These seats will sell I know you don't care for JJ and I'll grant you some things he's done concerning hires. When it comes to facilities he's possibly been too conservative.

[JBiGGiE 2,488]

I almost couldn't care what they do with the stadium, what needs to be fixed is the seat spacing... The 10 inch buffer between seat numbers is too small even by conservative measurements.

[EagleReedle 14]

Which corporations Cooltigger?

What we're looking for are like investment bankers that want to send lawmakers to a game, or doctors, or vets, or engineers. We probably don't get boxes taken by law firms the way UAT does.

We'll get car dealerships and industrial supply manufacturers. Locally owned companies... But it's still a bottom line thing. There's a company owner that loses 60c for every $ spent on client entertainment or employee perks.

These seats will sell I know you don't care for JJ and I'll grant you some things he's done concerning hires. When it comes to facilities he's possibly been too conservative.

they'll definitely sell. The question is at what price but actually that question may be totally irrelevant as i see it as an inelastic demand unless it's vs western state community college or the citadel or we hire scott loeffler to run our offense

[auburn4ever 1,266]

Basically, the AD has been out of touch for years. A lot of time when Jay Jacobs was talking to the media, he'd only talked about the big new scoreboard and nothing or very little about the upcoming season. That tells me there's something really wrong with Auburn's AD.

[logan adams 333]

Any news on the next step of the process?