The challenge ahead for Kevin Steele

[Warbird82 160]

We are doing a lot of talking about our defense lately. I'm more concerned about the challenge ahead for Malzahn and the offense than I am on anything on the other side of the ball honestly.

The offense will be fine. I'm not worried about that side of the ball. We'll see an offense much closer to what we're used to seeing from Malzahn.

I love your faith in Gus. Mine is being tested a little lately. I really had some problems with Gus' play calling this year. Some of it was plain awful. I do hope you are right though. I like Gus and want to see him win but either SEC DCs have caught up with him or he didn't have the players he needs to make his system work. Beats me which it is but, look at the numbers..offensive production was WAY down across the board this year. If he aint back next year with what you've called " an offense much closer to what we're used to seeing from Malzahn" his seat may begin to warm up a bit at Auburn.

It seems to me that the way to make the HUNH offense work is with pace. This means you don't substitute a lot...you play with the ones you have on the field. This year it appeared that we were always substituting and then doing the meerkat thing to try to get the PERFECT play. Too much substitution + meerkat = no pace which equals fewer wins.

[Warbird82 160]

We are doing a lot of talking about our defense lately. I'm more concerned about the challenge ahead for Malzahn and the offense than I am on anything on the other side of the ball honestly.

The offense will be fine. I'm not worried about that side of the ball. We'll see an offense much closer to what we're used to seeing from Malzahn.

I love your faith in Gus. Mine is being tested a little lately. I really had some problems with Gus' play calling this year. Some of it was plain awful. I do hope you are right though. I like Gus and want to see him win but either SEC DCs have caught up with him or he didn't have the players he needs to make his system work. Beats me which it is but, look at the numbers..offensive production was WAY down across the board this year. If he aint back next year with what you've called " an offense much closer to what we're used to seeing from Malzahn" his seat may begin to warm up a bit at Auburn.

Mistakes were made no doubt. I think this year was a big learning experience for Gus. He'll make the necessary corrections.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at with your statement. I mean, how many years to you need to be coaching the offense that you invented to avoid the "big learning experience" year?

[Warbird82 160]

We are doing a lot of talking about our defense lately. I'm more concerned about the challenge ahead for Malzahn and the offense than I am on anything on the other side of the ball honestly.

The offense will be fine. I'm not worried about that side of the ball. We'll see an offense much closer to what we're used to seeing from Malzahn.

I love your faith in Gus. Mine is being tested a little lately. I really had some problems with Gus' play calling this year. Some of it was plain awful. I do hope you are right though. I like Gus and want to see him win but either SEC DCs have caught up with him or he didn't have the players he needs to make his system work. Beats me which it is but, look at the numbers..offensive production was WAY down across the board this year. If he aint back next year with what you've called " an offense much closer to what we're used to seeing from Malzahn" his seat may begin to warm up a bit at Auburn.

Mistakes were made no doubt. I think this year was a big learning experience for Gus. He'll make the necessary corrections.

Agreed. He used to keep the same players on the field for different situations which allowed him to run a true HUNH. This year he substituted to get certain people on the field for certain situations. This did two things: it allowed the defense to substitute for the situation and/or to get fresh players on the field; it also set trends for the defenses to know what the play may be based on the offensive personnel on the field. He has to get back to running the true HUNH for his offense to be successful.

^^^This^^^

[Warbird82 160]

How do you think we, as fans, would react if we started bringing in the 18-25 ranked recruiting class as opposed to a top 10 class

"I want a recruiting national championship and I want it now!"...kinda like this.

[FoundationEagle 637]

We are doing a lot of talking about our defense lately. I'm more concerned about the challenge ahead for Malzahn and the offense than I am on anything on the other side of the ball honestly.

The offense will be fine. I'm not worried about that side of the ball. We'll see an offense much closer to what we're used to seeing from Malzahn.

I love your faith in Gus. Mine is being tested a little lately. I really had some problems with Gus' play calling this year. Some of it was plain awful. I do hope you are right though. I like Gus and want to see him win but either SEC DCs have caught up with him or he didn't have the players he needs to make his system work. Beats me which it is but, look at the numbers..offensive production was WAY down across the board this year. If he aint back next year with what you've called " an offense much closer to what we're used to seeing from Malzahn" his seat may begin to warm up a bit at Auburn.

Mistakes were made no doubt. I think this year was a big learning experience for Gus. He'll make the necessary corrections.

Agreed. He used to keep the same players on the field for different situations which allowed him to run a true HUNH. This year he substituted to get certain people on the field for certain situations. This did two things: it allowed the defense to substitute for the situation and/or to get fresh players on the field; it also set trends for the defenses to know what the play may be based on the offensive personnel on the field. He has to get back to running the true HUNH for his offense to be successful.

^^^This^^^

Are you on some kind of mission? Before I post this, 7 of the last 9 posts on this thread are yours. I think you're having a conversation with yourself at this point lol.

Correction, 8 of the last 10

[Warbird82 160]

So from what people have said, the majority would be okay to bring in lesser talent and wait 4-5 years to get it developed to championship level before better talent begins to see and join in. Usually meaning 4-6 losses a year for about 2-4 years. Is this correct?

What makes Darth Saban so successful is that he brings in a load of talent every year...not every other year or every three years...EVERY YEAR. If one of his 5 stars flames out, he's got two to take their place...competition is built in to his "process". You have to have the Jimmys and Joes. I remember a 5-star QB that came to Auburn and won a national title in his first year there...weren't going to see that with BT or NC. Jimmys and Joes...

[Warbird82 160]

I know some people see Bama's program and choose to believe they "developed" talent to get where they are, but it's all about bringing in the talent in the first place. Saban hasn't won without stellar recruiting classes. Bama isn't at the top without getting the best available players out of HS every single year, and it isn't even close. Many of those don't reach their potential either. There are plenty of flame outs there too. They just have so much depth, all you hear is the talk of the ones that do succeed.

Saban didn't "develop" Derrick Henry any more than Pat Dye "developed" Bo Jackson or Dooley "developed" Herschel Walker.

Bingo!

[doc4aday 1,887]

We are doing a lot of talking about our defense lately. I'm more concerned about the challenge ahead for Malzahn and the offense than I am on anything on the other side of the ball honestly.

The offense will be fine. I'm not worried about that side of the ball. We'll see an offense much closer to what we're used to seeing from Malzahn.

I love your faith in Gus. Mine is being tested a little lately. I really had some problems with Gus' play calling this year. Some of it was plain awful. I do hope you are right though. I like Gus and want to see him win but either SEC DCs have caught up with him or he didn't have the players he needs to make his system work. Beats me which it is but, look at the numbers..offensive production was WAY down across the board this year. If he aint back next year with what you've called " an offense much closer to what we're used to seeing from Malzahn" his seat may begin to warm up a bit at Auburn.

Mistakes were made no doubt. I think this year was a big learning experience for Gus. He'll make the necessary corrections.

Agreed. He used to keep the same players on the field for different situations which allowed him to run a true HUNH. This year he substituted to get certain people on the field for certain situations. This did two things: it allowed the defense to substitute for the situation and/or to get fresh players on the field; it also set trends for the defenses to know what the play may be based on the offensive personnel on the field. He has to get back to running the true HUNH for his offense to be successful.

^^^This^^^

Are you on some kind of mission? Before I post this, 7 of the last 9 posts on this thread are yours. I think you're having a conversation with yourself at this point lol.

Correction, 8 of the last 10

As I sit watching Mr. Bean for the 50th time, I am trying to hack my way through this thread without losing concentration and having to start all over again. Once we get a DT QB with size, speed, and smarts, we will regain our prowess on offense.

[Warbird82 160]

Still...seems like once we are "off the script" there does not seem to be a plan that makes sense...too many predictable play calls

if we script the first series or two does this mean we run predetermined plays regardless of how the defense is aligning? Why can't more of the game be scripted?

Lots of coaches start the first series with a set of scripted plays they think will work based off of film study of the opponent. This isn't practical for an entire game. Its a good way to get a bit of a rhythm going or at least attempt to do so. As the game progresses yo see what the other guy is doing and call plays that you think will work. Its a constant chess match with adjustment on both sides

Its like playing chess...move-counter move...and so forth and so on...

[Warbird82 160]

The answer to the hypothetical situation is that you want the teacher/developer. Then you hire a hot shot recruiter to do his recruiting for him.

The reality in the SEC today is that you better be good at both developing and recruiting if you want to be successful. The ones that are best at doing both are the ones that will rise to the top over time.

but the question wasn't hypothetical it was which one would you rather have and it was stipulated that you cant say both. Obviously, you are absolutely right but if you can only have one and not both i go with the recruiter because there's just no way to win in the SEC in the absence of talent. Nick Saban gets a lot of accolades as a coach but he brings in the #1 recruiting class ever year, Yareckon that makes coaching em a little easier? I do.

A whole team of 5 star players means a lot of egos, big ones at at that. Its no small matter to take a bunch of super talented individuals and make a team out of of them. You can win 9 games a year with that talent. To reach the next level is where coaching comes in to play.

I like to use Phil Jackson as a prime example. His Chicago and LA teams were full of talent and egos. He managed these guys into 11 championships. It's impossible to win at the highest level without both. I guess the question is do you think you can get the the recruiting later if you show you can coach.

You've figured it out!!! Gus needs to be a Zen Master as well as a coach! I can now go to bed and get a great night's sleep!

[Warbird82 160]

So to sum up the thread...the challenge ahead for KS is to either recruit well or coach well (but not both) and to get Gus to run the HUNH?

And be a Zen Master...

[Warbird82 160]

We are doing a lot of talking about our defense lately. I'm more concerned about the challenge ahead for Malzahn and the offense than I am on anything on the other side of the ball honestly.

The offense will be fine. I'm not worried about that side of the ball. We'll see an offense much closer to what we're used to seeing from Malzahn.

I love your faith in Gus. Mine is being tested a little lately. I really had some problems with Gus' play calling this year. Some of it was plain awful. I do hope you are right though. I like Gus and want to see him win but either SEC DCs have caught up with him or he didn't have the players he needs to make his system work. Beats me which it is but, look at the numbers..offensive production was WAY down across the board this year. If he aint back next year with what you've called " an offense much closer to what we're used to seeing from Malzahn" his seat may begin to warm up a bit at Auburn.

Mistakes were made no doubt. I think this year was a big learning experience for Gus. He'll make the necessary corrections.

Agreed. He used to keep the same players on the field for different situations which allowed him to run a true HUNH. This year he substituted to get certain people on the field for certain situations. This did two things: it allowed the defense to substitute for the situation and/or to get fresh players on the field; it also set trends for the defenses to know what the play may be based on the offensive personnel on the field. He has to get back to running the true HUNH for his offense to be successful.

^^^This^^^

Are you on some kind of mission? Before I post this, 7 of the last 9 posts on this thread are yours. I think you're having a conversation with yourself at this point lol.

Correction, 8 of the last 10

Sorry, just responding to previous posts...I've been away for a few days cleaning up flood damage. My bad...

[doc4aday 1,887]

So from what people have said, the majority would be okay to bring in lesser talent and wait 4-5 years to get it developed to championship level before better talent begins to see and join in. Usually meaning 4-6 losses a year for about 2-4 years. Is this correct?

What makes Darth Saban so successful is that he brings in a load of talent every year...not every other year or every three years...EVERY YEAR. If one of his 5 stars flames out, he's got two to take their place...competition is built in to his "process". You have to have the Jimmys and Joes. I remember a 5-star QB that came to Auburn and won a national title in his first year there...weren't going to see that with BT or NC. Jimmys and Joes...

Please translate this so that old cusses like me can understand. What does BT stand for?

[Warbird82 160]

So from what people have said, the majority would be okay to bring in lesser talent and wait 4-5 years to get it developed to championship level before better talent begins to see and join in. Usually meaning 4-6 losses a year for about 2-4 years. Is this correct?

What makes Darth Saban so successful is that he brings in a load of talent every year...not every other year or every three years...EVERY YEAR. If one of his 5 stars flames out, he's got two to take their place...competition is built in to his "process". You have to have the Jimmys and Joes. I remember a 5-star QB that came to Auburn and won a national title in his first year there...weren't going to see that with BT or NC. Jimmys and Joes...

Please translate this so that old cusses like me can understand. What does BT stand for?

Barrett Trotter...et al.

[AuburnSpider 2]

While it seems we are on a tangent, I'd just like to say if we had o piss's playcaller in the 3rd qtr out in Pasedena my trip home would have been sooooooooooo much nicer.

[cooltigger21 0]

The answer to the hypothetical situation is that you want the teacher/developer. Then you hire a hot shot recruiter to do his recruiting for him.

The reality in the SEC today is that you better be good at both developing and recruiting if you want to be successful. The ones that are best at doing both are the ones that will rise to the top over time.

but the question wasn't hypothetical it was which one would you rather have and it was stipulated that you cant say both. Obviously, you are absolutely right but if you can only have one and not both i go with the recruiter because there's just no way to win in the SEC in the absence of talent. Nick Saban gets a lot of accolades as a coach but he brings in the #1 recruiting class ever year, Yareckon that makes coaching em a little easier? I do.

A whole team of 5 star players means a lot of egos, big ones at at that. Its no small matter to take a bunch of super talented individuals and make a team out of of them. You can win 9 games a year with that talent. To reach the next level is where coaching comes in to play.

I like to use Phil Jackson as a prime example. His Chicago and LA teams were full of talent and egos. He managed these guys into 11 championships. It's impossible to win at the highest level without both. I guess the question is do you think you can get the the recruiting later if you show you can coach.

The obvious question is how much later? These coaches make so much frickin money, patience isn't written into a contract where a guy is being paid $4mil a year and its guaranteed money. And, frankly it shouldn't be. These guys know what they're getting onto. Certain schools have certain expectations and if they're not met they get canned. I dont think any coach in the business says to himself...well, I want to settle for 2nd tier talent so I can prove to people I can coach...then they'll be flocking to my program wanting to play for me.

I don't think anyone goes in thinking they can only get 2nd tier talent. What I was saying is that someone could only get that but hopefully, after having proved their capability, could attract better talent

[JDUBB4AU 5,102]

So from what people have said, the majority would be okay to bring in lesser talent and wait 4-5 years to get it developed to championship level before better talent begins to see and join in. Usually meaning 4-6 losses a year for about 2-4 years. Is this correct?

Are you talking about building a program from scratch? I would think the highly rated players already on campus would be coached up and placed in situations to be successful. Then the "lesser" talent coming behind the ones who were already on campus matures and fills the void when the ones that were already on campus graduate/leave early, then the future recruiting classes do the same and so on and so on and...

I'm not talking about anything specific, just trying to see what others are wanting in their coaches and what kind of patience they have to reach their expectations.

Just teach the boys how to tackle. AU has been missed tackle U... also the killer instinct needs to be restored.

[Warbird82 160]

So from what people have said, the majority would be okay to bring in lesser talent and wait 4-5 years to get it developed to championship level before better talent begins to see and join in. Usually meaning 4-6 losses a year for about 2-4 years. Is this correct?

Are you talking about building a program from scratch? I would think the highly rated players already on campus would be coached up and placed in situations to be successful. Then the "lesser" talent coming behind the ones who were already on campus matures and fills the void when the ones that were already on campus graduate/leave early, then the future recruiting classes do the same and so on and so on and...

I'm not talking about anything specific, just trying to see what others are wanting in their coaches and what kind of patience they have to reach their expectations.

Just teach the boys how to tackle. AU has been missed tackle U... also the killer instinct needs to be restored.

Then hire Takeo Spikes as the "killer instinct" coach...

[tiger88 934]

So to sum up the thread...the challenge ahead for KS is to either recruit well or coach well (but not both) and to get Gus to run the HUNH? :dunno:/>

And be a Zen Master...

Yeah, I don't get the silliness of the premise. You can have both or a combo of both. It's not like you have to choose either good coaching or good recruiting. So, what is the purpose of the question? Exploring a hypothetical situation that doesnxt have to exist but we could choose to create for ourselves? Let's make sure we only hire coaches that can either recruit or coach? Once again, I don't get it.

[japantiger 4,051]

While it seems we are on a tangent, I'd just like to say if we had o piss's playcaller in the 3rd qtr out in Pasedena my trip home would have been sooooooooooo much nicer.

Thanks for bringing that bad memory up...

[AUbritt 611]

So from what people have said, the majority would be okay to bring in lesser talent and wait 4-5 years to get it developed to championship level before better talent begins to see and join in. Usually meaning 4-6 losses a year for about 2-4 years. Is this correct?

Depends and no not the kind you wear.................

You mean the kind *you* wear.

[AUBwins 10,064]

We are doing a lot of talking about our defense lately. I'm more concerned about the challenge ahead for Malzahn and the offense than I am on anything on the other side of the ball honestly.

The offense will be fine. I'm not worried about that side of the ball. We'll see an offense much closer to what we're used to seeing from Malzahn.

I love your faith in Gus. Mine is being tested a little lately. I really had some problems with Gus' play calling this year. Some of it was plain awful. I do hope you are right though. I like Gus and want to see him win but either SEC DCs have caught up with him or he didn't have the players he needs to make his system work. Beats me which it is but, look at the numbers..offensive production was WAY down across the board this year. If he aint back next year with what you've called " an offense much closer to what we're used to seeing from Malzahn" his seat may begin to warm up a bit at Auburn.

It seems to me that the way to make the HUNH offense work is with pace. This means you don't substitute a lot...you play with the ones you have on the field. This year it appeared that we were always substituting and then doing the meerkat thing to try to get the PERFECT play. Too much substitution + meerkat = no pace which equals fewer wins.

This meerkat was my biggest frustration with the offense.

[bigman334 56]

I know some people see Bama's program and choose to believe they "developed" talent to get where they are, but it's all about bringing in the talent in the first place. Saban hasn't won without stellar recruiting classes. Bama isn't at the top without getting the best available players out of HS every single year, and it isn't even close. Many of those don't reach their potential either. There are plenty of flame outs there too. They just have so much depth, all you hear is the talk of the ones that do succeed.

Saban didn't "develop" Derrick Henry any more than Pat Dye "developed" Bo Jackson or Dooley "developed" Herschel Walker.

that 2nd year where they lost to Utah, other than Julio they had a bunch of Shula players who sucked under Shula. That was a heck of a job of developing players If you ask me. You dont have to have a team full of 5 stars to win 10 games a year. thats all i ask

[keesler 5,922]

I know some people see Bama's program and choose to believe they "developed" talent to get where they are, but it's all about bringing in the talent in the first place. Saban hasn't won without stellar recruiting classes. Bama isn't at the top without getting the best available players out of HS every single year, and it isn't even close. Many of those don't reach their potential either. There are plenty of flame outs there too. They just have so much depth, all you hear is the talk of the ones that do succeed.

Saban didn't "develop" Derrick Henry any more than Pat Dye "developed" Bo Jackson or Dooley "developed" Herschel Walker.

that 2nd year where they lost to Utah, other than Julio they had a bunch of Shula players who sucked under Shula. That was a heck of a job of developing players If you ask me. You dont have to have a team full of 5 stars to win 10 games a year. thats all i ask

They develop their players, they stock pile talent, they teach fundamental football from the ground up. Some folks want to question their process for development, look no further than this season. Their special teams and kicking game improved, their QB improved, they had several freshmen that are top quality starters on O and D now. Their second string subs in and doesn't miss a beat. I see that as a great development program. Getting the 5*s on campus gives then a head start on a lot of programs, but what they are able to mold those guys into after they hit campus is when the cream rises to the top.

[around4ever 4,139]

I know some people see Bama's program and choose to believe they "developed" talent to get where they are, but it's all about bringing in the talent in the first place. Saban hasn't won without stellar recruiting classes. Bama isn't at the top without getting the best available players out of HS every single year, and it isn't even close. Many of those don't reach their potential either. There are plenty of flame outs there too. They just have so much depth, all you hear is the talk of the ones that do succeed.

Saban didn't "develop" Derrick Henry any more than Pat Dye "developed" Bo Jackson or Dooley "developed" Herschel Walker.

that 2nd year where they lost to Utah, other than Julio they had a bunch of Shula players who sucked under Shula. That was a heck of a job of developing players If you ask me. You dont have to have a team full of 5 stars to win 10 games a year. thats all i ask

They develop their players, they stock pile talent, they teach fundamental football from the ground up. Some folks want to question their process for development, look no further than this season. Their special teams and kicking game improved, their QB improved, they had several freshmen that are top quality starters on O and D now. Their second string subs in and doesn't miss a beat. I see that as a great development program. Getting the 5*s on campus gives then a head start on a lot of programs, but what they are able to mold those guys into after they hit campus is when the cream rises to the top.

Exactly!