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StatTiger

Offensive Comparison

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Ten years at the collegiate level with a total of 135 games.

Of the 135 games, 94 came with a pocket passer for the most part and 41 came with an DT QB.

PQB: 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011, 2012 and 2015

DT QB: 2010, 2013 and 2014

Here is an offensive breakdown of his offenses, comparing his 7 offenses with a pocket passer and 3 years with a DT QB.

Offensive%20Comparison_zps5kacyqkm.jpg

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Good job Stat but you have to admit that those PQB stats were earned by some of the worst QBs we have had at AU in more than a decade...and Loefler too of course.

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WOW! great work once again stat. it shows a better win percentage and more points per game with the DTQB. So it tells me his offense is better with DTQB. But that does not mean it can't/doesn't work with a pocket passer.

What would his PQB stats look like if you dropped 2015 from the formula - just wondering if this past year at AU and the problems we had were a skew on his PQB stats?

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Good job Stat but you have to admit that those PQB stats were earned by some of the worst QBs we have had at AU in more than a decade...and Loefler too of course.

These are Malzahn offenses only.

2006: Arkansas

2007: Tulsa

2008: Tulsa

2009: Auburn

2010: Auburn

2011: Auburn

2012: Arkansas State

2013: Auburn

2014: Auburn

2015: Auburn

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WOW! great work once again stat. it shows a better win percentage and more points per game with the DTQB. So it tells me his offense is better with DTQB. But that does not mean it can't/doesn't work with a pocket passer.

What would his PQB stats look like if you dropped 2015 from the formula - just wondering if this past year at AU and the problems we had were a skew on his PQB stats?

I don't want to take anything away. He had great passing offenses the two years at Tulsa and a great one at Arkansas State. Clearly he is worst offenses were 2011 and 2015 with plenty of question marks at the QB position.

On stat that stands out to me... Auburn from 1981-2015 is 101-6-2 when rushing for 250 or more yards (94% win pct) and 72-19-1 when passing for 250-yards or more (79% win pct). I am old school and have always felt better when Auburn had a great running game.

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Good job Stat but you have to admit that those PQB stats were earned by some of the worst QBs we have had at AU in more than a decade...and Loefler too of course.

I believe these are Gus stats, so Loefler not involved as that was 2012 with Loefler under Chizik. Malzahn was at ArkSt in 2012 with a pocket passer.

Gus at AU with pocket passer was 2009 w/Todd, 2011 w/Trotter et al and then 2015 w/JJ and Sean.

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So who decides who is an official pocket passer and who is a dual threat?RGIII has basically ruined his career because he was worried about people putting a label on him when it really doesn't matter

Edited by cole256

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Good job Stat but you have to admit that those PQB stats were earned by some of the worst QBs we have had at AU in more than a decade...and Loefler too of course.

I believe these are Gus stats, so Loefler not involved as that was 2012 with Loefler under Chizik. Malzahn was at ArkSt in 2012 with a pocket passer.

Gus at AU with pocket passer was 2009 w/Todd, 2011 w/Trotter et al and then 2015 w/JJ and Sean.

The QBs you mention kinda validate my observation.....and using Cam and Nick as the measuring stick? ya gotta admit those guys were special ....so to me at least, the jury is still out on whether just any decent DT-QB can generate those numbers...or whether it takes an exceptional athlete like those two guys.

Guess this season might be the tie-breaker in the discussion if one of the DT guys we are pursuing is able to run the team.

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So who decides who is an official pocket passer and who is a dual threat?RGIII has basically ruined his career because he was worried about people putting a label on him when it really doesn't matter

I would assume stat since its his spreadsheet.

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So who decides who is an official pocket passer and who is a dual threat?RGIII has basically ruined his career because he was worried about people putting a label on him when it really doesn't matter

I would assume stat since its his spreadsheet.

I was talking about recruits when they come out. Like the shae Patterson dude, some sites have him as a dual and some as a pro....If a guy is athletic and can run and throw how do you decide? Or what if a guy can run easy but he passes first most times?

But that's a good point, if stat decides on his sheet, I wonder if it's what they were listed coming out of high school or is it an eye test

Edited by cole256

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Stat, to be fair you need throw out the outliers, best/worst.

Problem with that, it would be comparing 5 seasons to just 1.

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So who decides who is an official pocket passer and who is a dual threat?RGIII has basically ruined his career because he was worried about people putting a label on him when it really doesn't matter

I would assume stat since its his spreadsheet.

I was talking about recruits when they come out. Like the shae Patterson dude, some sites have him as a dual and some as a pro....If a guy is athletic and can run and throw how do you decide? Or what if a guy can run easy but he passes first most times?

But that's a good point, if stat decides on his sheet, I wonder if it's what they were listed coming out of high school or is it an eye test

If I were making the comparison, it would be based on how the player was actually utilized. There are indeed quarterbacks that are mobile and great passers but I would not cxonsider them dual-threat QB's. The emphasis should be placed on "Threat" in both running and passing. For example, Jeremy Johnson was responsible for 12% of Auburn's rushing numbers as the starter. In comparison, Newton accounted for 40% and Marshall accounted for 25%.

In terms of an entire season, I would label a DT QB has one that had at least 150 carries during the course of a season or at least 500-yards rushing for the season.

2 cents

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At the end of the day, people are only going to see what they want. Thank you for the detailed info stat, although this has been presented with no avail in other threads. Your work is always appreciated.

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I guess I need my thread merged with this one. You know, this is sound evidence for dual threat QBs. I know some of you are insistent that a Pocket Passer can do as well as a DT/QB and I do respect your opinions. I find that we are having a lot of new folks on this site.

There is just too much bickering on this site that started last summer I think. In past years, things were a lot more civil. Folks really need to respect other folks on this site and try to be what an Auburn fan is all about. You have a new outlook on life when your life is hanging in the balance such as mine. I am going to quit talking about QBs in that it does not accomplish anything other than people getting testy about this topic.

Edited by doc4aday

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Ok I got you. By doing it that way you take the subjective out of it. The play calling and production will tell the story. Makes sense now

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The other issue with this is that Cam and Nick were unquestionably the best QBs Gus has ever had. So, it's kinda biased in their favor.

I'll say this, though -- I'm also kind of biased in favor of a dominating running game. Cam was awesome, but I liked watching our 2013 offense even more than 2010.

I just think it would be interesting if you put an excellent passer in for a couple of seasons, then made the comparison.

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The other issue with this is that Cam and Nick were unquestionably the best QBs Gus has ever had. So, it's kinda biased in their favor.

I'll say this, though -- I'm also kind of biased in favor of a dominating running game. Cam was awesome, but I liked watching our 2013 offense even more than 2010.

I just think it would be interesting if you put an excellent passer in for a couple of seasons, then made the comparison.

He did have great passing games 2 years at Tulsa, 1 year at Arkansas State and Chris Todd put up some solid numbers in 2009.

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I agree, Cam and Nick were special athletes, especially in comparison to some of the others he's had.

I'd love to get back to the pulverizing running game with the ability to hit big plays with the play action, and utilizing the TE's and RB's in the passing game. I don't mind the zone read occasionally, but I wouldn't want to have to rely on it.

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The other issue with this is that Cam and Nick were unquestionably the best QBs Gus has ever had. So, it's kinda biased in their favor.

I'll say this, though -- I'm also kind of biased in favor of a dominating running game. Cam was awesome, but I liked watching our 2013 offense even more than 2010.

I just think it would be interesting if you put an excellent passer in for a couple of seasons, then made the comparison.

He did put in the excellent passers. Three of them to be exact. They just haven't been excellent at AU.

Edited by DAG

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Pocket passer is a nice way of saying he can't run or is immobile.

Not necessarily. Pocket qbs can be mobile and run when necessary or just be able to scramble out of harms way but yet still be looking for a receiver to throw to.

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I understand the point here, but it may as well be labeled as stats according to freak athletes as qb versus normal human beings. The freak athletes only averaged 4 more points a game than the normal human beings, meaning they turn one filed goal a game into a td. I'd say this also proves that without a freak athlete at the helm, Gus can clearly run a pocket qb system with normal human beings and still be very effective (now if he had a freak athlete that was a pass first qb, I bet it would skew the numbers the other way)

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Getting back to DT QB's, there have been 161 at the FBS level from 2000-2015 that totaled at least 500-yards rushing and over 1500 yards passing in a season. Their offenses averaged over 440-yards per game and had an average national ranking off 33rd in total offense. All the offenses at the FBS level from 2000-2015 averaged 384.8 yards per game. During the last 5 years, DT-QB offenses averaged 458-yards per game.

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