StatTiger 3,188 Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Ten years at the collegiate level with a total of 135 games. Of the 135 games, 94 came with a pocket passer for the most part and 41 came with an DT QB. PQB: 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011, 2012 and 2015 DT QB: 2010, 2013 and 2014 Here is an offensive breakdown of his offenses, comparing his 7 offenses with a pocket passer and 3 years with a DT QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU64 10,122 Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Good job Stat but you have to admit that those PQB stats were earned by some of the worst QBs we have had at AU in more than a decade...and Loefler too of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBAU83 212 Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 WOW! great work once again stat. it shows a better win percentage and more points per game with the DTQB. So it tells me his offense is better with DTQB. But that does not mean it can't/doesn't work with a pocket passer. What would his PQB stats look like if you dropped 2015 from the formula - just wondering if this past year at AU and the problems we had were a skew on his PQB stats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StatTiger 3,188 Posted January 10, 2016 Author Share Posted January 10, 2016 Good job Stat but you have to admit that those PQB stats were earned by some of the worst QBs we have had at AU in more than a decade...and Loefler too of course. These are Malzahn offenses only. 2006: Arkansas 2007: Tulsa 2008: Tulsa 2009: Auburn 2010: Auburn 2011: Auburn 2012: Arkansas State 2013: Auburn 2014: Auburn 2015: Auburn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StatTiger 3,188 Posted January 10, 2016 Author Share Posted January 10, 2016 WOW! great work once again stat. it shows a better win percentage and more points per game with the DTQB. So it tells me his offense is better with DTQB. But that does not mean it can't/doesn't work with a pocket passer. What would his PQB stats look like if you dropped 2015 from the formula - just wondering if this past year at AU and the problems we had were a skew on his PQB stats? I don't want to take anything away. He had great passing offenses the two years at Tulsa and a great one at Arkansas State. Clearly he is worst offenses were 2011 and 2015 with plenty of question marks at the QB position. On stat that stands out to me... Auburn from 1981-2015 is 101-6-2 when rushing for 250 or more yards (94% win pct) and 72-19-1 when passing for 250-yards or more (79% win pct). I am old school and have always felt better when Auburn had a great running game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBAU83 212 Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Good job Stat but you have to admit that those PQB stats were earned by some of the worst QBs we have had at AU in more than a decade...and Loefler too of course. I believe these are Gus stats, so Loefler not involved as that was 2012 with Loefler under Chizik. Malzahn was at ArkSt in 2012 with a pocket passer. Gus at AU with pocket passer was 2009 w/Todd, 2011 w/Trotter et al and then 2015 w/JJ and Sean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuburnEagle79 2,163 Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 #science Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cole256 17,039 Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 So who decides who is an official pocket passer and who is a dual threat?RGIII has basically ruined his career because he was worried about people putting a label on him when it really doesn't matter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU64 10,122 Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Good job Stat but you have to admit that those PQB stats were earned by some of the worst QBs we have had at AU in more than a decade...and Loefler too of course. I believe these are Gus stats, so Loefler not involved as that was 2012 with Loefler under Chizik. Malzahn was at ArkSt in 2012 with a pocket passer. Gus at AU with pocket passer was 2009 w/Todd, 2011 w/Trotter et al and then 2015 w/JJ and Sean. The QBs you mention kinda validate my observation.....and using Cam and Nick as the measuring stick? ya gotta admit those guys were special ....so to me at least, the jury is still out on whether just any decent DT-QB can generate those numbers...or whether it takes an exceptional athlete like those two guys. Guess this season might be the tie-breaker in the discussion if one of the DT guys we are pursuing is able to run the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdc81 89 Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Stat, to be fair you need throw out the outliers, best/worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
augolf1716 21,096 Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 So who decides who is an official pocket passer and who is a dual threat?RGIII has basically ruined his career because he was worried about people putting a label on him when it really doesn't matter I would assume stat since its his spreadsheet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cole256 17,039 Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 So who decides who is an official pocket passer and who is a dual threat?RGIII has basically ruined his career because he was worried about people putting a label on him when it really doesn't matter I would assume stat since its his spreadsheet. I was talking about recruits when they come out. Like the shae Patterson dude, some sites have him as a dual and some as a pro....If a guy is athletic and can run and throw how do you decide? Or what if a guy can run easy but he passes first most times? But that's a good point, if stat decides on his sheet, I wonder if it's what they were listed coming out of high school or is it an eye test Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StatTiger 3,188 Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 Stat, to be fair you need throw out the outliers, best/worst. Problem with that, it would be comparing 5 seasons to just 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StatTiger 3,188 Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 So who decides who is an official pocket passer and who is a dual threat?RGIII has basically ruined his career because he was worried about people putting a label on him when it really doesn't matter I would assume stat since its his spreadsheet. I was talking about recruits when they come out. Like the shae Patterson dude, some sites have him as a dual and some as a pro....If a guy is athletic and can run and throw how do you decide? Or what if a guy can run easy but he passes first most times? But that's a good point, if stat decides on his sheet, I wonder if it's what they were listed coming out of high school or is it an eye test If I were making the comparison, it would be based on how the player was actually utilized. There are indeed quarterbacks that are mobile and great passers but I would not cxonsider them dual-threat QB's. The emphasis should be placed on "Threat" in both running and passing. For example, Jeremy Johnson was responsible for 12% of Auburn's rushing numbers as the starter. In comparison, Newton accounted for 40% and Marshall accounted for 25%. In terms of an entire season, I would label a DT QB has one that had at least 150 carries during the course of a season or at least 500-yards rushing for the season. 2 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAG 33,955 Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 At the end of the day, people are only going to see what they want. Thank you for the detailed info stat, although this has been presented with no avail in other threads. Your work is always appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc4aday 1,887 Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 I guess I need my thread merged with this one. You know, this is sound evidence for dual threat QBs. I know some of you are insistent that a Pocket Passer can do as well as a DT/QB and I do respect your opinions. I find that we are having a lot of new folks on this site. There is just too much bickering on this site that started last summer I think. In past years, things were a lot more civil. Folks really need to respect other folks on this site and try to be what an Auburn fan is all about. You have a new outlook on life when your life is hanging in the balance such as mine. I am going to quit talking about QBs in that it does not accomplish anything other than people getting testy about this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cole256 17,039 Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Ok I got you. By doing it that way you take the subjective out of it. The play calling and production will tell the story. Makes sense now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexava 6,973 Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Pocket passer is a nice way of saying he can't run or is immobile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUbritt 611 Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 The other issue with this is that Cam and Nick were unquestionably the best QBs Gus has ever had. So, it's kinda biased in their favor. I'll say this, though -- I'm also kind of biased in favor of a dominating running game. Cam was awesome, but I liked watching our 2013 offense even more than 2010. I just think it would be interesting if you put an excellent passer in for a couple of seasons, then made the comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StatTiger 3,188 Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 The other issue with this is that Cam and Nick were unquestionably the best QBs Gus has ever had. So, it's kinda biased in their favor. I'll say this, though -- I'm also kind of biased in favor of a dominating running game. Cam was awesome, but I liked watching our 2013 offense even more than 2010. I just think it would be interesting if you put an excellent passer in for a couple of seasons, then made the comparison. He did have great passing games 2 years at Tulsa, 1 year at Arkansas State and Chris Todd put up some solid numbers in 2009. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyAU 3,630 Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 I agree, Cam and Nick were special athletes, especially in comparison to some of the others he's had. I'd love to get back to the pulverizing running game with the ability to hit big plays with the play action, and utilizing the TE's and RB's in the passing game. I don't mind the zone read occasionally, but I wouldn't want to have to rely on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAG 33,955 Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 The other issue with this is that Cam and Nick were unquestionably the best QBs Gus has ever had. So, it's kinda biased in their favor. I'll say this, though -- I'm also kind of biased in favor of a dominating running game. Cam was awesome, but I liked watching our 2013 offense even more than 2010. I just think it would be interesting if you put an excellent passer in for a couple of seasons, then made the comparison. He did put in the excellent passers. Three of them to be exact. They just haven't been excellent at AU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooltigger21 0 Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Pocket passer is a nice way of saying he can't run or is immobile. Not necessarily. Pocket qbs can be mobile and run when necessary or just be able to scramble out of harms way but yet still be looking for a receiver to throw to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoundationEagle 637 Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 I understand the point here, but it may as well be labeled as stats according to freak athletes as qb versus normal human beings. The freak athletes only averaged 4 more points a game than the normal human beings, meaning they turn one filed goal a game into a td. I'd say this also proves that without a freak athlete at the helm, Gus can clearly run a pocket qb system with normal human beings and still be very effective (now if he had a freak athlete that was a pass first qb, I bet it would skew the numbers the other way) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StatTiger 3,188 Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 Getting back to DT QB's, there have been 161 at the FBS level from 2000-2015 that totaled at least 500-yards rushing and over 1500 yards passing in a season. Their offenses averaged over 440-yards per game and had an average national ranking off 33rd in total offense. All the offenses at the FBS level from 2000-2015 averaged 384.8 yards per game. During the last 5 years, DT-QB offenses averaged 458-yards per game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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