Softball vs. Kentucky - game 2

[around4ever 4,139]

Harper out with 2 illegal pitches. Do you think the umps are mad at AU?

No. Marcy has developed the illegal pitch yips. Her multiple IPs in 1 inning is a major reason we lost to Miss St in a game 2 weeks ago.

Does anyone know (on this forum) what is she doing that is illegal?

Pitchers do not have to stay in contact with the rubber as the announcer said. However, they do have to drag the drive foot, no leaping off the ground. The pitcher cannot drag the foot, replant and push again before releasing the ball. There is also a fine line as to whether the divot created by repeated dragging makes it appear as though the pitcher's drive foot is leaving the ground, when in fact, it is level with the ground around the divot.

Most pitchers will occasionally try to get a little extra push and the drive foot does leave the ground. Umpires rarely call this unless they think the pitcher replants the drive foot before release. It appears to me that Marcy was getting too far off the ground and replanting before release. It looks like she was doing two things that could be called. She has a reputation now for doing it. The umpires are watching her closely. Coach Corey Myers has to get this corrected because we will need Marcy and her big game experience as we go down the stretch and into post season tournaments.

[around4ever 4,139]

Okay, now move ahead to bottom of the fifth, and Kentucky makes a substitution and puts Nunnely (the flex) in to bat, which means the DP-Steed has been removed from the game as she (Steed) cannot re-enter.

The commentator even says Kentucky is now down to playing with 9 (terminology meaning the flex is in the game batting). He also states that they are done with the DP. That is not the case in high school as once you start with the DP/Flex, it is still available in the game, just in this case Steed is no longer eligible, but Kentucky can put another player in for Steed as the DP and Nunnely just goes back to playing defense. It may be different in college, but I don't think so.

After they come back, the commentator is able to say it was a substitution issue and may have also involved putting a player in for Steed as the new DP. All that was done by Kentucky was legal.

I guess I don't understand why it took 25 minutes for the umpires to get it right, maybe just took that much to convince Myers he was wrong.

And I do not know what they called the illegal pitches on Marcy Harper for, I didn't see it.

As far as I know, Kentucky and the umpires were correct in their interpretation. The Flex/DP rules are very confusing when it comes to substituting, replacing each other and re-entering. I really think Coach Myers should have questioned the ruling because of the multiple in and outs. He probably knew the ruling was right but he wanted to see if the umpires were 100% convinced they were right. He does know the rule book as well as any coach in the game. I was a little surprised that he took it as far as protesting, though.

[WarTiger 3,901]

Harper out with 2 illegal pitches. Do you think the umps are mad at AU?

No. Marcy has developed the illegal pitch yips. Her multiple IPs in 1 inning is a major reason we lost to Miss St in a game 2 weeks ago.

Does anyone know (on this forum) what is she doing that is illegal?

Pitchers do not have to stay in contact with the rubber as the announcer said. However, they do have to drag the drive foot, no leaping off the ground. The pitcher cannot drag the foot, replant and push again before releasing the ball. There is also a fine line as to whether the divot created by repeated dragging makes it appear as though the pitcher's drive foot is leaving the ground, when in fact, it is level with the ground around the divot.

Most pitchers will occasionally try to get a little extra push and the drive foot does leave the ground. Umpires rarely call this unless they think the pitcher replants the drive foot before release. It appears to me that Marcy was getting too far off the ground and replanting before release. It looks like she was doing two things that could be called. She has a reputation now for doing it. The umpires are watching her closely. Coach Corey Myers has to get this corrected because we will need Marcy and her big game experience as we go down the stretch and into post season tournaments.

Right they definitely do not. How many times have I said on this board, never pay attention to announcers when it comes to rule interpretations. They know very little about the rules of the game and when it comes to something has complex as the DP/Flex and subsitution/re-entry, they know nothing. Even former coaches that announce games don't often know the rules.

Okay, now move ahead to bottom of the fifth, and Kentucky makes a substitution and puts Nunnely (the flex) in to bat, which means the DP-Steed has been removed from the game as she (Steed) cannot re-enter.

The commentator even says Kentucky is now down to playing with 9 (terminology meaning the flex is in the game batting). He also states that they are done with the DP. That is not the case in high school as once you start with the DP/Flex, it is still available in the game, just in this case Steed is no longer eligible, but Kentucky can put another player in for Steed as the DP and Nunnely just goes back to playing defense. It may be different in college, but I don't think so.

After they come back, the commentator is able to say it was a substitution issue and may have also involved putting a player in for Steed as the new DP. All that was done by Kentucky was legal.

I guess I don't understand why it took 25 minutes for the umpires to get it right, maybe just took that much to convince Myers he was wrong.

And I do not know what they called the illegal pitches on Marcy Harper for, I didn't see it.

As far as I know, Kentucky and the umpires were correct in their interpretation. The Flex/DP rules are very confusing when it comes to substituting, replacing each other and re-entering. I really think Coach Myers should have questioned the ruling because of the multiple in and outs. He probably knew the ruling was right but he wanted to see if the umpires were 100% convinced they were right. He does know the rule book as well as any coach in the game. I was a little surprised that he took it as far as protesting, though.

I believe that he thought the umpires and Kentucky were WRONG and that's why he stopped the game addressing it several times. I'm not at all surprised with the protest. Myers likely doesn't file a protest if he knows the ruling was correct. There had to be something there that told him it was illegal. He's not going to file a protest if he knows the ruling is right. Clearly there was enough doubt on the part of the crew to call a rules interpreter to get a definitive answer. If the umpires know they are right, there's no reason to pull out a rule book on the field and delay the game by nearly 25 minutes. Of course, I'm not versed enough on the protocol concerning a rule interpretation/protest situation.

[WarTiger 3,901]

As a high school softball official, I will add what I can tell from watching some of the replay. It was use of the DP/Flex and substitution. College may be a little different than high school, but here is what I believe was the case:

Steed in the lineup as the DP (which means her job is to play offense)

Nunnely in the lineup as the Flex (which means she plays defense, if she bats it can only be for the DP-Steed)

In the second inning, Nunnely bats for Steed. This is legal but is a substitution because the DP-Steed who should be batting is not batting).

In the third inning, Howard on first, Carosone hits the ball to 1st base, being played by DP-Steed and makes an out. Coach Myers then calls time and goes to discuss with the umpire - some discussion and you can see the umpire say "my fault". Another time they show Kentucky coach talking with Corey Myers and looks like she is talking about flipping them around. MY SUPPOSITION is that since Nunnely batted, she was entered and DP-Steed was out of the game. Then Kentucky put DP-Steed back in on defense but the Umpire failed to tell Auburn of the legal re-entry. The reason Myers called time at that point is once an unreported substitute makes a play on the ball, you can nullify the play and replay the pitch (Carosone would have gone back to bat with same count, Howard back to first) and then they could official re-enter the player. I believe Kentucky told the Ump, he failed to tell AU and that is what was his fault (Kentucky was legal, ump just failed to notify AU).

Let me finish watching the other innings and I will post what I think is a continuation of the DP substitution issue that Myers protested.

Definitely NOT. There was way more to it than that. For that, the umpire apologizes to the coach and we move on. Had that been the case, there wouldn't have been the need to call a rule interpreter to get a ruling DURING THE GAME. It was WAY more than a notification issue.

[AU64 10,122]

Quite a few vids on softball pitching illegal pitches.....here is one ....

And I think CCM is not above a bit of gamesmanship....

[GBAU83 212]

As a high school softball official, I will add what I can tell from watching some of the replay. It was use of the DP/Flex and substitution. College may be a little different than high school, but here is what I believe was the case:

Steed in the lineup as the DP (which means her job is to play offense)

Nunnely in the lineup as the Flex (which means she plays defense, if she bats it can only be for the DP-Steed)

In the second inning, Nunnely bats for Steed. This is legal but is a substitution because the DP-Steed who should be batting is not batting).

In the third inning, Howard on first, Carosone hits the ball to 1st base, being played by DP-Steed and makes an out. Coach Myers then calls time and goes to discuss with the umpire - some discussion and you can see the umpire say "my fault". Another time they show Kentucky coach talking with Corey Myers and looks like she is talking about flipping them around. MY SUPPOSITION is that since Nunnely batted, she was entered and DP-Steed was out of the game. Then Kentucky put DP-Steed back in on defense but the Umpire failed to tell Auburn of the legal re-entry. The reason Myers called time at that point is once an unreported substitute makes a play on the ball, you can nullify the play and replay the pitch (Carosone would have gone back to bat with same count, Howard back to first) and then they could official re-enter the player. I believe Kentucky told the Ump, he failed to tell AU and that is what was his fault (Kentucky was legal, ump just failed to notify AU).

Let me finish watching the other innings and I will post what I think is a continuation of the DP substitution issue that Myers protested.

Definitely NOT. There was way more to it than that. For that, the umpire apologizes to the coach and we move on. Had that been the case, there wouldn't have been the need to call a rule interpreter to get a ruling DURING THE GAME. It was WAY more than a notification issue.

WarTiger, my comments above are from the 2nd/3rd inning - the first delay which was very short and not the basis of the protest. The umpire did apologize and did move on. I agree the basis of protest was much more than that. The notification issue was earlier but I also think that put Myers in a position when he had another situation, he was not too willing to accept the umpires ruling.