PayPal bails on North Carolina

[Guest NC1406]

32 minutes ago, Bigbens42 said:

Yeah, cause those transgender folks are such a threat my daughters.

The law doesn't serve that purpose. Based on statistics, child molesters overwhelmingly choose people they know as their victims, not strangers. They choose private instead of public places. Plus most sex offenders are male and their victims are male, so they are still going into the same restroom. Finally, does anyone really think that someone who breaks one law (child molestation) is going to obey another (which restroom to use)?

Further, far more priests and other folks in positions of religious authority, Protestant and Catholic, are sex offenders than trans people yet no one has ever suggested a law to ban them from public restrooms. 

Yawn. Living in NC it is my opinion that the city of Charlotte started this shitstorm with their local legislation that was not needed to protect ANYONE in their GREAT city. The state countered by calling the legislature back into session to pass a state law to over rule the local ordinance. Again unneeded and overreaching. The national "news" organizations wanted to collect drudge type money so they continue to hype this up. I am glad these athletic events are pulling out. I would not go see them if you paid me. They are a nuisance in my opinion. 

But then again I am pissed when a new house is built 3 miles down the road. Too damn close . 

[AUDub 11,147]

37 minutes ago, NC1406 said:

Yawn. Living in NC it is my opinion that the city of Charlotte started this shitstorm with their local legislation that was not needed to protect ANYONE in their GREAT city. The state countered by calling the legislature back into session to pass a state law to over rule the local ordinance. Again unneeded and overreaching. The national "news" organizations wanted to collect drudge type money so they continue to hype this up. I am glad these athletic events are pulling out. I would not go see them if you paid me. They are a nuisance in my opinion. 

But then again I am pissed when a new house is built 3 miles down the road. Too damn close . 

I'm ok with a trans inclusive law like the ordinance Charlotte passed. If no law on trans use of restrooms exists in a jurisdiction, then generally folks should do a quick calculation about which restroom is less likely to get them harrassed, and use that one. In these situations, they may still be assaulted, physically or verbally, by bystanders or staff.

If a trans-inclusive law like Charlotte’s now superseded one is in force, trans residents may still be harrassed or assaulted by bystanders who think they “don’t belong” in the restroom they have chosen to use, but the trans person at least has a hope that an authority figure or police officer called in to “enforce” the bystanders’ wishes will support the trans individual.

If a trans-exclusive law like hb2 is in effect, not only do bystanders feel empowered to challenge an ever-widening pool of people who don’t meet narrow gender stereotypes, some of whom might be cisgender and straight, but trans people are likely to be harrassed no matter which public restroom they choose to use. If you are a trans man and look male but were assigned female at birth, HB2 requires you to use the ladies’ room. But just try to walk into one with facial hair and your masculine face and voice and see how many bystanders will permit you to peaceably pee! But if you go in the men’s and anyone challenges you, police and security officers will harrass and possibly arrest and charge you.

[aujeff11 6,243]

On Wednesday, the Athletic Coast Conference announced it would move its December ACC Championship football game out of Charlotte, North Carolina. The move is a reaction to the HB2 law that protects women and children in bathrooms, dressing rooms and locker rooms.

Franklin Graham, president and CEO of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association, responded to the move, writing this letter to ACC Commissioner John D. Swofford with a copy sent to the presidents of its 15 member schools:

Read the Original Letter (PDF)

Dear Commissioner Swofford,

As a lifelong resident of North Carolina and current CEO and president of two organizations employing nearly 1,500 North Carolinians, I am saddened—even outraged—by the vote of the ACC Council of Presidents to move conference championships from our state in protest of legislation requiring people to use public bathrooms that correspond with their birth gender.

While I recognize this legislation—and legislation like it in other states—is complicated by society’s continued blurring of the lines of gender and sexual identity, I also recognize the profound hypocrisy of the ACC, the NCAA and other companies and organizations who are making calculated business decisions disguised as moral outrage.

For example, the football championship game your conference voted to move from Charlotte in December is called the “Dr. Pepper ACC Football Championship.” Dr. Pepper and its parent company, Cadbury Schweppes and Carlyle Group, proudly sell their products in countries where homosexuality is illegal. Will the ACC drop its title sponsor? And why isn’t the LGBT community demanding you sever ties with such a “bigoted” corporate sponsor?

Currently, LGBT relationships are illegal in more than 70 countries—including 10 where homosexuality is punishable by death. Dr. Pepper is often bottled under contract by Coca-Cola bottlers—yet Coca-Cola conducts business in virtually every nation on earth, including nearly every country where homosexuality is currently criminalized. Can your conference continue to tolerate that?

The ACC website proudly features Toyota as an “Official Corporate Champion,” yet Toyota maintains factories and distribution centers in several of these discriminatory countries, including Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Egypt. Where is the moral outrage of the presidents of Boston College, Clemson, Duke, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Miami, UNC, North Carolina State, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Virginia, Virginia Tech and Wake Forest?

Indeed, the ACC’s member schools compete in 25 sports divided by gender—12 men’s sports and 13 women’s. Though gender issues may be becoming more complicated in higher education and other parts of society, the athletic conference you serve as commissioner doesn’t seem to have any problem distinguishing between the two genders—male and female. Yet, when a state like the one I live in seeks to make the same distinction with regard to use of public bathrooms in an effort to protect its citizens from those who would use the men’s room today and the women’s room tomorrow, the academic elites who comprise your conference fake a moral outrage that is frankly shameful.

Ironically, the NCAA is more discriminatory towards transgender people than the public policy they apparently wish to see as law in America. For example, opponents to legislation like NC House Bill 2 support permitting people to use the bathroom which corresponds to the sex they identify with on a given day—meaning someone might feel like a man today and a woman tomorrow, switching bathrooms at will.

Yet even the NCAA doesn’t allow such casual gender identity for participation in collegiate athletics. The NCAA Policy on Transgender Student-Athlete Participation states, “Any transgender student-athlete who is not taking hormone treatment related to gender transition may participate in sex-separated sports activities in accordance with his or her assigned birth gender.” This is precisely what supporters of HB 2 have been requesting—that people use public restrooms in accordance with their assigned birth gender.

I think I represent the views of millions who would rather preserve gender-specific public bathrooms—a mainstay for generations—than to attend a football game in my state to determine the champion of a conference governed by politically-correct, morally hypocritical academics.

Commissioner, in your statement today you said, “the ACC Council of Presidents made it clear that the core values of this league are of the utmost importance, and the opposition to any form of discrimination is paramount. Today’s decision is one of principle.” Will this same paramount “opposition to any form of discrimination” have you now sever ties with Toyota or Dr. Pepper?

I am a big sports fan. My only daughter married a college football star that went on to play in the NFL. But I would rather defend the biological definition of the two genders as created by the Creator of the universe than to attend—or even watch on TV—a football or basketball game to determine the ACC champion.

Commissioner Swofford, you maintain your conference’s decision is “one of principle” and that “core values…are of utmost importance.” Well, millions of us who oppose your decision do so as a matter of principle and core values—values of privacy, safety and protection of our sons and daughters in public restrooms, and the principle that God created just two genders and assigned them at birth.

Please don’t make political pawns of student-athletes who just want to play football or basketball in North Carolina, and don’t continue to offend millions of Americans who endorse thousands of years of gender-specific bathrooms while you continue to accept corporate sponsorship money from companies proudly conducting their business in countries that discriminate against homosexuals to the point of death.

Sincerely,

Franklin Graham

President & CEO of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association

President & CEO of Samaritan’s Purse

FG/jd cc: Presidents of the 15 member schools

 

Franklin Graham Challenges Pastors, Churches

In a Facebook post this morning, Franklin Graham strongly encouraged North Carolina pastors and churches to speak out against repealing HB2:

“Governor Pat McCrory, Lt. Governor Dan Forest, and NC state legislators are coming under extreme pressure about the NC HB2 law which protects our women and children in bathrooms, dressing rooms, and locker rooms. Our state is being bullied by the NCAA, the ACC, and some of corporate America who are influenced by LGBT activists.

Women across this state—do you really want men in your restrooms? Mothers and grandmothers—do you want men going into the locker rooms and dressing rooms with your daughters and granddaughters? What about you, dads and grandfathers?

Our legislators are being forced to consider repealing HB2 and you, your children, and your grandchildren will be at risk to sexual predators and perverts. Is this what you want? If it’s not, you had better share this post and send an email right now to Governor McCrory at pat.mccrory@nc.gov (or you can call at 919-814-2000), Dan Forest at dan.forest@nc.gov (phone 919-814-3680), and your other representatives to let them know to stand strong. Even if you don’t live in NC, you can still send an email of support and pray for this battle.

Pastors and churches across North Carolina—this isn’t only an important issue of privacy and safety, this is a moral issue. Sexually perverted people want to come into the most private and sensitive area that we have as human beings—the restroom. You are shepherds of the flock. Shepherds protect, speak out, and defend. Where is your voice in this issue? Let Gov. McCrory and the state legislators hear your support. Don’t let them be forced into repealing HB2.”y

[homersapien 11,366]

I find arguments made by anti semites like Franklin Graham somewhat less than persuasive.

The last paragraph in your post explains why.

[channonc 466]

On 9/16/2016 at 4:15 PM, homersapien said:

I find arguments made by anti semites like Franklin Graham somewhat less than persuasive.

The last paragraph in your post explains why.

Not to stray off topic, but I've only heard of anti-Semitic comments made by Rev. Billy Graham (his father).  I've never heard this about Franklin.  Could someone bring me up to speed? 

[homersapien 11,366]

On 9/14/2016 at 10:18 PM, PUB78 said:

There are things much more important than $$, such as morality, decency, common sense and the safety of your wives, daughters and granddaughters.

"Woe to them that call evil good and good evil" which is exactly what this is all about.

How does legally requiring this person to use the women's restroom protect our wives, daughters and granddaughters?  

[AuburnNTexas 7,140]

On 4/26/2016 at 5:54 AM, TitanTiger said:

I think you're confusing statistics here. No one is claiming that the 0.3% of people who truly believe they are transgender are the danger here. So the comparison between the two groups (transgenders v. priests) doesn't really make sense.

I could just as easily ask the same question about public school teachers who had much higher incidents of sexual misconduct than Catholic priests, but would be a much more apt analogy.

But the common thread there as MDM stated is access, which begets opportunity.

That said, in wake of such situations both in and out of church, most churches have instituted a lot more checks and precautions with child volunteers and workers. I go to a rather small church comparatively speaking, but we have yearly training on sexual predators, refreshers on church policy and those policies include rules like adults not being alone with children (there must always be at least one other adult present). These laws that allow anyone that states "feelings" to use whatever facility they want lack accountability and increase access. The exact opposite of what you should be doing.

In the Dallas Diocese they have made multiple changes to try and cut down the opportunity for any type of child molestation. All Catechist, volunteers who work with kids and priests  must go to an initial class where rules are laid down and then take yearly refresher courses. No adult (Priest or laymen) can be in a room alone with a child. We teach in pairs. If one has to leave the room to escort a child to a parent or restroom then other must open door in class room and teach from doorway so that you are visible to others.  Person escorting to restroom leaves child outside for a few seconds to see who is in restroom then steps out of restroom and sends child in while waiting by the door. In addition we are taught to look for signs of child abuse and how to report it.  We also take online classes on other subject matter like Senior abuse, and other maladies that are sometimes seen in our society. We also announce before every mass if your child needs to use the restroom we expect one of the parents to accompany them.

I believe this type of training is done in most if not all Diocese in the US now but since I have only taught in Dallas I can't swear to the last part. There are sick people in society some straight, some gay, some transgender the majority across all spectrum's are good people but as we have seen in the Catholic Church that you have to work to make it safer for children.

The argument against people choosing the bathroom they identify with as opposed to what your bodies physiology dictates can be either based on an honest attempt to protect people or it can be because of prejudice. I would like the compromise of having male bathrooms, female bathrooms, and unisex bathrooms.  It is not a perfect solution but it is no worse then the risk taken of putting a very small number of more people at risk by opening the bathroom to what a person says they are.  When people are talking statistics and it is a small number we try and dismiss it. But if you are somebody you know is that small number then it is a big issue. 

 

[homersapien 11,366]

1 hour ago, channonc said:

Not to stray off topic, but I've only heard of anti-Semitic comments made by Rev. Billy Graham (his father).  I've never heard this about Franklin.  Could someone bring me up to speed? 

I haven't looked for a reference, but I am referring to a time several years ago in which I was on a driving trip and tuned it to a Franklin Graham radio broadcast and listened for about a half hour.  It was all about why Jews are destined for hell unless they convert.  

Oh, he says he supports the Jewish people, but only because of the biblical prophecies that are supposed to ultimately validate Christianity. If the Jews don't make the conversion to Christianity, they are most definitely going to hell.  He made that very plain.

Of course he's even worse regarding Muslims.  He wants a religious war with them, the sooner the better.

It was a great example of the insanity that is fundamentalist religious belief.

[channonc 466]

Just now, homersapien said:

I haven't looked for a reference, but I am referring to a time several years ago in which I was on a driving trip and tuned it to a Franklin Graham radio broadcast and listened for about a half hour.  It was all about why Jews are destined for hell unless they convert.  

Oh, he says he supports the Jewish people, but only because of the biblical prophecies that are supposed to ultimately validate Christianity. If the Jews don't make the conversion to Christianity, they are most definitely going to hell.  He made that very plain.

Of course he's even worse regarding Muslims.  He wants a religious war with them, the sooner the better.

It was a great example of the insanity that is fundamentalist religious belief.

Thanks, I was aware of his views about Muslims, just haven't heard anything about the Jewish faith.  Appalling to say the least.  

[Grumps 3,704]

6 minutes ago, homersapien said:

I haven't looked for a reference, but I am referring to a time several years ago in which I was on a driving trip and tuned it to a Franklin Graham radio broadcast and listened for about a half hour.  It was all about why Jews are destined for hell unless they convert.  

Oh, he says he supports the Jewish people, but only because of the biblical prophecies that are supposed to ultimately validate Christianity. If the Jews don't make the conversion to Christianity, they are most definitely going to hell.  He made that very plain.

Of course he's even worse regarding Muslims.  He wants a religious war with them, the sooner the better.

It was a great example of the insanity that is fundamentalist religious belief.

Is it anti-Semitic to say that he thinks that Jews are going to hell if they don't convert? I don't see it that way. Has Franklin Graham SAID he wants a religious war or are you just guessing?

Regarding fundamentalist religious belief, if you knew more about it you would REALLY think we are insane!

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Just now, homersapien said:

I haven't looked for a reference, but I am referring to a time several years ago in which I was on a driving trip and tuned it to a Franklin Graham radio broadcast and listened for about a half hour.  It was all about why Jews are destined for hell unless they convert.  Oh, he says he supports the Jewish people, but only because of the biblical prophecies that are supposed to ultimately validate Christianity. If the Jews don't make the conversion to Christianity, they are most definitely going to hell.  He made that very plain.

Not sure I'd call that anti-Semitic.  It's a competing truth claim.  If you believe the words of Jesus:  "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life.  No one comes to the Father except through me" and you believe that the New Testament says that Jesus is the Messiah, then eternal separation from God is the logical end for those who do not believe - be they Jewish or Gentile.

By contrast, Muslims believe that anyone who regards Jesus as co-equal with the Father (in other words, Trinitarian belief) is a polytheist and a blasphemer and will be sent to hell if they do not renounce this.

Even Orthodox Jews have a belief in some sort of punishment in the afterlife for the unrighteous.

We Americans have gotten so uncomfortable with the concept of people believing certain truths that by definition mean that other competing claims cannot also be true at the same time, that we start turning it into some sort of hateful statement.

[homersapien 11,366]

20 minutes ago, Grumps said:

Is it anti-Semitic to say that he thinks that Jews are going to hell if they don't convert? I don't see it that way. Has Franklin Graham SAID he wants a religious war or are you just guessing?

Regarding fundamentalist religious belief, if you knew more about it you would REALLY think we are insane!

You might if you were Jewish and you were listening to a tirade about it on the public airwaves.

Once you have consigned a class of people as condemned to hell it becomes pretty easy to think less of them in terms of respecting their beliefs.

Trust me, I REALLY do think fundamentalist believers - of any religion - are insane.

As for Franklin's desire for a religious war:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/07/franklin-grahams-turn-toward-intolerance/398924/

In a post on his Facebook page this past Friday, the younger Graham proclaimed that all Muslims should be barred from immigrating to America and treated like the Japanese and Germans during World War II. Muslims who come to America have the “potential to be radicalized” and participate in “killing to honor their religion and Muhammad,” he said in response to the murders of four Marines in Chattanooga on Thursday.

 

http://www.cnsnews.com/blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-graham-islam-has-declared-war-world-they-want-destroy-us

Rev. Graham: ‘Islam Has Declared War On the World … They Want To Destroy Us’

“Islam has declared war on the world,” their “goal is world domination,” and America must join with her allies “to destroy this enemy.”

[homersapien 11,366]

28 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Not sure I'd call that anti-Semitic.  It's a competing truth claim.  If you believe the words of Jesus:  "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life.  No one comes to the Father except through me" and you believe that the New Testament says that Jesus is the Messiah, then eternal separation from God is the logical end for those who do not believe - be they Jewish or Gentile.

By contrast, Muslims believe that anyone who regards Jesus as co-equal with the Father (in other words, Trinitarian belief) is a polytheist and a blasphemer and will be sent to hell if they do not renounce this.

Even Orthodox Jews have a belief in some sort of punishment in the afterlife for the unrighteous.

We Americans have gotten so uncomfortable with the concept of people believing certain truths that by definition mean that other competing claims cannot also be true at the same time, that we start turning it into some sort of hateful statement.

Like I said, once you've consigned a class of people to hell for their beliefs, it becomes a lot easier to disrespect them.

To the extent that such beliefs are required in Christianity is why I reject Christian dogma and any other religious dogma with similar beliefs - such as Islam.  

[TitanTiger 20,472]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

Like I said, once you've consigned a class of people to hell for their beliefs, it becomes a lot easier to disrespect them.

To the extent that such beliefs are required in Christianity is why I reject Christian dogma and any other religious dogma with similar beliefs - such as Islam.  

I can see how your first statement could be true.  But for the Christian, they would have to disobey numerous other Scriptures that compel them to love those with whom they disagree.  They'd have to ignore commands to present the truth they believe with gentleness and respect.  To be sure, some certainly do ignore those passages.  But they damage and endanger their own souls if they persist in willfully doing so.

To your last statement I would just say, something being hard, difficult, off-putting or even offensive is not a reliable test of the truthfulness of the thing in question.

[Guest NC1406]

Interesting developments:

 

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article102255582.html

 

Charlotte’s ordinance would have extended anti-discrimination protection to the LGBT community and allowed transgender people to use the bathrooms and locker rooms of the gender with which they identify.

In response, HB2 took away the ability of local governments to pass LGBT protections and required transgender people to use the restrooms of the gender on their birth certificate in government buildings. It went further, barring cities from raising the minimum wage.

In protest, entertainment acts such as Bruce Springsteen have scrapped North Carolina appearances, and PayPal canceled plans to bring 400 jobs to Charlotte. The U.S. Department of Justice has sued the state, whose reputation has been battered by comedians and commentators across the country.

A deal similar to the current one was proposed in May, but the Democratic-controlled City Council ultimately voted 7-4 against considering a repeal of its ordinance.

Now some lawmakers said they hope a deal can be cut.

“I wouldn’t describe it as a compromise, I would describe it as a reset,” said Sen. Joel Ford, a Charlotte Democrat, who favors repeal of HB2. “We need to stop the economic hardship and the negative impact that is happening in our state and this is a good first step.”

Republican Sen. Tommy Tucker of Waxhaw said he believes there’s strong support for a move in the legislature if Charlotte repeals the ordinance. And Republican Sen. Jeff Tarte of Cornelius called the latest proposal “a marvelous idea.”

“It’s what I’ve been saying for the last few days, if we could repeal the ordinance and HB2 we’d be at the status quo.” He said a task force could then bring together stakeholders.

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article102255582.html#storylink=cpy

 

[AUDub 11,147]

4 minutes ago, NC1406 said:

“We need to stop the economic hardship and the negative impact that is happening in our state and this is a good first step.”

Nothing quite like those economic screws tightening.

See where McCrory planted questions at a townhall the other day? lol

[Guest NC1406]

5 minutes ago, Bigbens42 said:

Nothing quite like those economic screws tightening.

See where McCrory planted questions at a townhall the other day? lol

I missed that.  Been a busy week.  My major concern is finding product to sell the public at a price that is less than what I can resell it for.  If I raise my sales price, McCrory's opponent will send me another letter and I will have to pay the attorney some more money to prove I am not a cheat.

Let 6 stores run out of fuel today.  My choice was stop selling, lose money or fight another lawsuit from McCrory's opponent.  Roy Cooper (AG) is awful.