$10 minimum wage costing Mass. jobs

[AUcivE09 582]

I actually know very few people who make minimum wage. Even people who hold down a job at Burger King for a year are typically above minimum wage. I worked at Red Lobster for about 2 years in the early college years (2002-2003) and was making $10.25 an hour when I left. If welfare was used as intended we would have no problem helping out those below a living wage make ends meet until they get to a livable wage. Increasing the wage does no favors to those who hold down a job and are trying - it rewards those who cant stay employed long term for whatever reason.

Big chain companies could easily pay the increase, but trying to open up a small "mom and pop" place becomes much more of challenge.

http://www.bls.gov/o...orkers-2014.pdf

According to this table, there were 1.3 million workers in the United States working at the rate of 7.25. Obviously many jobs that start out at the 7.25 wage floor do offer raises but I'd be willing to guess that many of them takes years to come close to reaching 12 dollar wages (which is where I think we should be at.)

http://www.economist...5/minimum-wages

Some people just simply cannot get 12 dollar jobs though and it's not fair to judge them, or to compare them to a pot head who has parents that are forcing them to work.

The BLS report is interesting. Of note:

It does not take into consideration tips, overtime, or commission. Only what is reported by the employee. When I waited tables I never reported everything.

Age - half of the minimum wage workers are 25 or younger. About 3% of hourly workers 25 or older make minimum wage.

Education - 7% of high school drop outs earn minimum wage compared with 2% of college grads

Industry - Well over half of minimum wage workers work in leisure and hospitality

This all tells me that minimum wage is not as big a deal as we make it out to be. Also, I never compared all minimum wage workers with potheads. Statistics that you provided show that your average minimum wage worker is under 25 without a high school degree working hospitality. Very few are older well qualified individuals. I wish something was available showing consecutive years at minimum wage. I agree that if you start at minimum wage it could take years to get to $12/hr. That is a good reason to either work hard or go to school.

Not sure what your second link is meant to show. Looks like we are doing pretty dang good in the USA.

No it plainly stated that 1.7 million receive less than the minimum wage and noted that many of the 1.7 million may be people that work for tips.

The second link is self explanatory.

May want to re-read the 3rd paragraph - the same paragraph is repeated at the end of the report for good measure. Also - the 1.7 is only the portion below the federal minimum - you left out the part in regards to the people at federal minimum. This kind of seems like a small piece of the big picture in any case.

Let's call me stupid for a minute and please explain the relevance of the 2nd link.

Anything else with the rest of my response you would like to address in regards to the data I stated from your link?

"

"Occupation. Among major occupational groups, the highest percentage of hourly paid workers earning at or below

the federal minimum wage was in service occupations, at about 10 percent. Almost two-thirds of workers earning the minimum wage or less in 2014 were employed in service occupations, mostly in food preparation and serving-related jobs. (See table 4.)"

"Industry: The industry with the highest percentage of workers earning hourly wages at or below the federal minimum wage was leisure and hospitality (18 percent). Over half of all workers paid at or below the federal minimum wage were employed in this industry, the vast majority in restaurants and other food services. For many of these workers, tips may supplement the hourly wages received. (See table 5.)"

There is even a table on page 7 for the amount of food prep and serving positions on minimum wage.

Ok? I do not understand what you are responding to with this. Was this meant as a response to me?

[aujeff11 6,243]

I actually know very few people who make minimum wage. Even people who hold down a job at Burger King for a year are typically above minimum wage. I worked at Red Lobster for about 2 years in the early college years (2002-2003) and was making $10.25 an hour when I left. If welfare was used as intended we would have no problem helping out those below a living wage make ends meet until they get to a livable wage. Increasing the wage does no favors to those who hold down a job and are trying - it rewards those who cant stay employed long term for whatever reason.

Big chain companies could easily pay the increase, but trying to open up a small "mom and pop" place becomes much more of challenge.

http://www.bls.gov/o...orkers-2014.pdf

According to this table, there were 1.3 million workers in the United States working at the rate of 7.25. Obviously many jobs that start out at the 7.25 wage floor do offer raises but I'd be willing to guess that many of them takes years to come close to reaching 12 dollar wages (which is where I think we should be at.)

http://www.economist...5/minimum-wages

Some people just simply cannot get 12 dollar jobs though and it's not fair to judge them, or to compare them to a pot head who has parents that are forcing them to work.

The BLS report is interesting. Of note:

It does not take into consideration tips, overtime, or commission. Only what is reported by the employee. When I waited tables I never reported everything.

Age - half of the minimum wage workers are 25 or younger. About 3% of hourly workers 25 or older make minimum wage.

Education - 7% of high school drop outs earn minimum wage compared with 2% of college grads

Industry - Well over half of minimum wage workers work in leisure and hospitality

This all tells me that minimum wage is not as big a deal as we make it out to be. Also, I never compared all minimum wage workers with potheads. Statistics that you provided show that your average minimum wage worker is under 25 without a high school degree working hospitality. Very few are older well qualified individuals. I wish something was available showing consecutive years at minimum wage. I agree that if you start at minimum wage it could take years to get to $12/hr. That is a good reason to either work hard or go to school.

Not sure what your second link is meant to show. Looks like we are doing pretty dang good in the USA.

No it plainly stated that 1.7 million receive less than the minimum wage and noted that many of the 1.7 million may be people that work for tips.

The second link is self explanatory.

May want to re-read the 3rd paragraph - the same paragraph is repeated at the end of the report for good measure. Also - the 1.7 is only the portion below the federal minimum - you left out the part in regards to the people at federal minimum. This kind of seems like a small piece of the big picture in any case.

Let's call me stupid for a minute and please explain the relevance of the 2nd link.

Anything else with the rest of my response you would like to address in regards to the data I stated from your link?

"

"Occupation. Among major occupational groups, the highest percentage of hourly paid workers earning at or below

the federal minimum wage was in service occupations, at about 10 percent. Almost two-thirds of workers earning the minimum wage or less in 2014 were employed in service occupations, mostly in food preparation and serving-related jobs. (See table 4.)"

"Industry: The industry with the highest percentage of workers earning hourly wages at or below the federal minimum wage was leisure and hospitality (18 percent). Over half of all workers paid at or below the federal minimum wage were employed in this industry, the vast majority in restaurants and other food services. For many of these workers, tips may supplement the hourly wages received. (See table 5.)"

There is even a table on page 7 for the amount of food prep and serving positions on minimum wage.

Ok? I do not understand what you are responding to with this. Was this meant as a response to me?

Yes, I was talking to to you. How was that not blatantly obvious. I was obviously backing up the earlier statement that said " 1.7 million receive less than the minimum wage and noted that many of the 1.7 million may be people that work for tips."

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Why Ayn was such a devout follower of her own advice until death............Well, except for this..............

http://www.huffingto...e_b_792184.html

Awesome.

[telling tiger 156]

Don't do as I do, do as I demand everyone else do.....

[aujeff11 6,243]

Pretty good article given the subject that we are discussing today.

The exploitation of the lower class citizenry seems to be the Tuesday motif.

http://occupydemocrats.com/2016/04/11/walmart-loses-224-million-lawsuit-186000-workers-retailer-stole-workers-lunch-breaks/

[AUUSN 823]

Righties be like... Don't you dare have an abortion and don't you dare ask for more in minimum wage to support your baby.

[homersapien 11,366]

Proverbs 26:4

"Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you yourself will be just like him." (NIV)

I should post that on my keyboard.

[telling tiger 156]

That would cut your time in this forum way down, Homer.

[AURaptor 1,122]

Again, there's a special place for people like you who have no compassion for their neighbor. I'm not surprised, but still saddened.

It's not compassion when you think so little of an individual that you actually believe you're doing them a favor by giving them handouts. Quite the contrary, you're the one who wants to coddle individuals and confine them to a life of low expectations.

It's stunning that you don't see it.

The poison of Ayn Rand doing its work.

Right. The poison of freedom is such a terrible thing to take, huh?

Here ya go Titan. Take the blue pill.

[channonc 466]

Again, there's a special place for people like you who have no compassion for their neighbor. I'm not surprised, but still saddened.

It's not compassion when you think so little of an individual that you actually believe you're doing them a favor by giving them handouts. Quite the contrary, you're the one who wants to coddle individuals and confine them to a life of low expectations.

It's stunning that you don't see it.

The poison of Ayn Rand doing its work.

Right. The poison of freedom is such a terrible thing to take, huh?

Here ya go Titan. Take the blue pill.

Fighting for a living wage for honest work is a handout now?

[AURaptor 1,122]

Fighting for a living wage for honest work is a handout now?

Yes.

Because it's not suppose to be a ' living wage ', what so ever. We keep having this conversation. Hasn't it sunk in to you yet ?

And having the Imperial Federal Govt mandate to the private sector that it MUST pay X $ isn't ' fighting' for anything. It's a pure and total hand out, bu the govt, at the barrel of a gun.

Because that's the power govt has over - EVERYONE.

Comply, or else.

[aubaseball 2,594]

Everyone calling for $15 minimum wage, how many of you own your company? I always thought that minimum wage was set to pay an employee who is a new hire.

[AURaptor 1,122]

Everyone calling for $15 minimum wage, how many of you own your company? I always thought that minimum wage was set to pay an employee who is a new hire.

If $15 is compassion, why not show MORE compassion, and demand 20 ? 25 ?

And how many folks understand that a jump in the min wage also means an automatic increase in many union jobs as well ? They almost all have some sort of standard clause in their contracts which demand their base pay be directly tied to the min wage. Hell yeah the Dems want a jump in pay, because it means all their union voters also get a pay hike !

It's not so simple as claiming you CARE so much for the lower class.

It never is.

[AUcivE09 582]

I actually know very few people who make minimum wage. Even people who hold down a job at Burger King for a year are typically above minimum wage. I worked at Red Lobster for about 2 years in the early college years (2002-2003) and was making $10.25 an hour when I left. If welfare was used as intended we would have no problem helping out those below a living wage make ends meet until they get to a livable wage. Increasing the wage does no favors to those who hold down a job and are trying - it rewards those who cant stay employed long term for whatever reason.

Big chain companies could easily pay the increase, but trying to open up a small "mom and pop" place becomes much more of challenge.

http://www.bls.gov/o...orkers-2014.pdf

According to this table, there were 1.3 million workers in the United States working at the rate of 7.25. Obviously many jobs that start out at the 7.25 wage floor do offer raises but I'd be willing to guess that many of them takes years to come close to reaching 12 dollar wages (which is where I think we should be at.)

http://www.economist...5/minimum-wages

Some people just simply cannot get 12 dollar jobs though and it's not fair to judge them, or to compare them to a pot head who has parents that are forcing them to work.

The BLS report is interesting. Of note:

It does not take into consideration tips, overtime, or commission. Only what is reported by the employee. When I waited tables I never reported everything.

Age - half of the minimum wage workers are 25 or younger. About 3% of hourly workers 25 or older make minimum wage.

Education - 7% of high school drop outs earn minimum wage compared with 2% of college grads

Industry - Well over half of minimum wage workers work in leisure and hospitality

This all tells me that minimum wage is not as big a deal as we make it out to be. Also, I never compared all minimum wage workers with potheads. Statistics that you provided show that your average minimum wage worker is under 25 without a high school degree working hospitality. Very few are older well qualified individuals. I wish something was available showing consecutive years at minimum wage. I agree that if you start at minimum wage it could take years to get to $12/hr. That is a good reason to either work hard or go to school.

Not sure what your second link is meant to show. Looks like we are doing pretty dang good in the USA.

No it plainly stated that 1.7 million receive less than the minimum wage and noted that many of the 1.7 million may be people that work for tips.

The second link is self explanatory.

May want to re-read the 3rd paragraph - the same paragraph is repeated at the end of the report for good measure. Also - the 1.7 is only the portion below the federal minimum - you left out the part in regards to the people at federal minimum. This kind of seems like a small piece of the big picture in any case.

Let's call me stupid for a minute and please explain the relevance of the 2nd link.

Anything else with the rest of my response you would like to address in regards to the data I stated from your link?

"

"Occupation. Among major occupational groups, the highest percentage of hourly paid workers earning at or below

the federal minimum wage was in service occupations, at about 10 percent. Almost two-thirds of workers earning the minimum wage or less in 2014 were employed in service occupations, mostly in food preparation and serving-related jobs. (See table 4.)"

"Industry: The industry with the highest percentage of workers earning hourly wages at or below the federal minimum wage was leisure and hospitality (18 percent). Over half of all workers paid at or below the federal minimum wage were employed in this industry, the vast majority in restaurants and other food services. For many of these workers, tips may supplement the hourly wages received. (See table 5.)"

There is even a table on page 7 for the amount of food prep and serving positions on minimum wage.

Ok? I do not understand what you are responding to with this. Was this meant as a response to me?

Yes, I was talking to to you. How was that not blatantly obvious. I was obviously backing up the earlier statement that said " 1.7 million receive less than the minimum wage and noted that many of the 1.7 million may be people that work for tips."

Gotcha. I just dont see how this is relevant to my original statement. My original point was that raising minimum wage is not going to help people you would expect to need a living wage as much as a kid with little education who cant hold a job. The study you produced backs this up. The vast majority of the 1.7 million you keep bringing up are young uneducated and working in hospitality who probably are not claiming all their tips. Not all I am sure - but why raise minimum wage to help 2% of this group at all of our expense and the expense of the small guy businesses?

Just trying to bring us back out of right field.

Edit: and can you explain the second link? Im good on the 1.7 million talk.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Well hell, while we're at it, let's just roll it all back why don't we? If work is just a contract between an individual and an employer for whatever the two of them agree to, let's ditch workplace safety requirements, overtime regulations, environmental codes and such. If you're willing to risk you life and health, then the profits of the owner should be paramount. It'll save us all a whole lot of money to get rid of all those safeguards that slow down productivity anyway.

I mean, if the government (meaning: you and me) has no role to play in setting a reasonable minimum wage, what makes workplace safety and other labor rules so sacrosanct? Get rid of it all. Survival of the fittest, y'all!

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Right. The poison of freedom is such a terrible thing to take, huh?

Here ya go Titan. Take the blue pill.

She was an awful human being, an utterly selfish shrew and a hypocrite to boot. If she's a hero of yours, it's all the more to your shame.

[AURaptor 1,122]

Well hell, while we're at it, let's just roll it all back why don't we? If work is just a contract between an individual and an employer for whatever the two of them agree to, let's ditch workplace safety requirements, overtime regulations, environmental codes and such. If you're willing to risk you life and health, then the profits of the owner should be paramount. It'll save us all a whole lot of money to get rid of all those safeguards that slow down productivity anyway.

I mean, if the government (meaning: you and me) has no role to play in setting a reasonable minimum wage, what makes workplace safety and other labor rules so sacrosanct? Get rid of it all. Survival of the fittest, y'all!

Govt does not mean ' you and me '. It probably hasn't meant that for well over 100 years.

But of course you're being ridiculous. No one said we should live in an anarchy. No rules, everyone for themselves. But neither did our Founders ever dream of so much micro managing and interference by the FEDERAL govt on every single matter in our lives.

The pendulum has swung far , far to the tyranny we fought against, and the mirage you're living in is thinking that govt is " just you and me ! ".

[AURaptor 1,122]

Right. The poison of freedom is such a terrible thing to take, huh?

Here ya go Titan. Take the blue pill.

She was an awful human being, an utterly selfish shrew and a hypocrite to boot. If she's a hero of yours, it's all the more to your shame.

She may have been all those things, but she was also right. She escaped the horrors of soviet communism, at a time when the West was falling in love w/ the idea.

Seems you still live in a fairy tale haze of romanticizing about a mother Russia that never existed.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Well hell, while we're at it, let's just roll it all back why don't we? If work is just a contract between an individual and an employer for whatever the two of them agree to, let's ditch workplace safety requirements, overtime regulations, environmental codes and such. If you're willing to risk you life and health, then the profits of the owner should be paramount. It'll save us all a whole lot of money to get rid of all those safeguards that slow down productivity anyway.

I mean, if the government (meaning: you and me) has no role to play in setting a reasonable minimum wage, what makes workplace safety and other labor rules so sacrosanct? Get rid of it all. Survival of the fittest, y'all!

Govt does not mean ' you and me '. It probably hasn't meant that for well over 100 years.

But of course you're being ridiculous. No one said we should live in an anarchy. No rules, everyone for themselves. But neither did our Founders ever dream of so much micro managing and interference by the FEDERAL govt on every single matter in our lives.

The pendulum has swung far , far to the tyranny we fought against, and the mirage you're living in is thinking that govt is " just you and me ! ".

No where in that answer did you really show what distinguishes a safety requirement in a job from a minimum wage requirement or defining a 40-hr work week over which overtime must be paid.

And why does it bother you so much that a person putting in an honest week of full time work be able to afford the basics? I mean, we aren't talking about good for nothing freeloaders and welfare queens here.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Right. The poison of freedom is such a terrible thing to take, huh?

Here ya go Titan. Take the blue pill.

She was an awful human being, an utterly selfish shrew and a hypocrite to boot. If she's a hero of yours, it's all the more to your shame.

She may have been all those things, but she was also right. She escaped the horrors of soviet communism, at a time when the West was falling in love w/ the idea.

Seems you still live in a fairy tale haze of romanticizing about a mother Russia that never existed.

She is all of those things. I'm glad she escaped Soviet communism. It was evil incarnate.

But continue on in your inability to think in anything other than wild pendulum swings. If someone isn't for libertarian, laizzez faire capitalism to the hilt, they must be a Marxist.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

Minimum wage needs to atleast keep up with inflation. But I don't think we should force companies to pay someone $15 an hour to flip burgers.

[AURaptor 1,122]

No where in that answer did you really show what distinguishes a safety requirement in a job from a minimum wage requirement or defining a 40-hr work week over which overtime must be paid.

And why does it bother you so much that a person putting in an honest week of full time work be able to afford the basics? I mean, we aren't talking about good for nothing freeloaders and welfare queens here.

Yeah, I did answer that. But you arbitrarily expanded the discussion about min wage to safety requirements, which is moving the goal posts.

And why do you continue to make up things ? Fluffy language of ' honest week of full time work ' .. what the hell does that even mean ? There is no universal standard of what constitutes ' honest work ', is there ?

Point is , it's not up to the govt to tell us how to live our lives.

YOU seem to think it is. I don't. Not sure we're gonna meet anywhere in the middle on this one.

[homersapien 11,366]

I don't see this issue as being a matter of compassion. I see it as being an issue of the role of the government. I think it is MY job to feed the hungry, not the governments.

Of course, if employers had to pay a wage that allowed for the basics to be taken care of, the government wouldn't really need to "feed" anyone would they?

And nothing stops you from helping. But this notion that somehow we used to take care of the poor just fine without government involvement is a myth. This is long, but a worthwhile read:

The Conservative Myth of a Social Safety Net Built on Charity

The right yearns for an era when churches and local organizations took care of society's weakest—an era that never existed and can't exist today.

http://www.theatlant...charity/284552/

Well, nothing like a refreshing slap in the face with reality!

'The Atlantic' rocks and always has. Thanks for posting Titan.

[AURaptor 1,122]

Has anyone SEEN the stuff that is paid for , via OUR tax $, on ' basics' via EBT fraud ? Or those getting SNAP subsidies ,and other govt goodies, while driving luxury cars and carrying around iPhone 6's and such ?

[TitanTiger 20,472]

No where in that answer did you really show what distinguishes a safety requirement in a job from a minimum wage requirement or defining a 40-hr work week over which overtime must be paid.

And why does it bother you so much that a person putting in an honest week of full time work be able to afford the basics? I mean, we aren't talking about good for nothing freeloaders and welfare queens here.

Yeah, I did answer that. But you arbitrarily expanded the discussion about min wage to safety requirements, which is moving the goal posts.

No, dumbass, I said it in the very post you responded to:

If work is just a contract between an individual and an employer for whatever the two of them agree to, let's ditch workplace safety requirements, overtime regulations, environmental codes and such

You're ok with some government involvement evidently. But you can't explain what makes safety regs or a 40-hour work week so different from minimum wage law.

And why do you continue to make up things ? Fluffy language of ' honest week of full time work ' .. what the hell does that even mean ? There is no universal standard of what constitutes ' honest work ', is there ?

It's exactly what it sounds like. You do the job, you show up on time, you don't cheat your employer on hours, you don't stretch your lunch breaks, you're dependable, responsible, good with the customers and so on. You have a good attitude. What's so hard about that?

Point is , it's not up to the govt to tell us how to live our lives.

YOU seem to think it is. I don't. Not sure we're gonna meet anywhere in the middle on this one.

No, you're ok with the gov't telling us some stuff, you just like to arbitrarily draw the lines.