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13 minutes ago, ellitor said:

Actually no. I don't mind it. It's not like they are eligible for their state playoffs. The kids get to practice against some of the best every day & teams that play them get to measure themselves up.

 

It destroys high school teams, it affects coaching careers, and hurts the community.  A lot of players get noticed and recruited when scouts come to see the "stud".  Those same players don't get noticed when the stud is poached from the team. Coaches, whose careers are graded on wins and losses are affected, and communities, that the schools are in, are affected (right or wrong).

 

For example, in the movie Hoosiers, would the coach had survived without Jimmy? How would Hickory's season fared without Jimmy?  What impact did the championship run have on that community?  All 3 we're affected by one player being there.

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1 minute ago, corchjay said:

That's what I said.  They aren't taking the average joes... they are taking the elite.  

Shea Patterson is probably the worst example of this you could have used.  Sloppy QB play in an offense built to feature a passing QB, got injured and now appears to have run from a little competition up to Michigan where he is going to yet another QB "guru" that hasn't developed crap since the 49ers.  

Okay, so what’s the problem? IMG is taking all the “good/elite kids?” They’re not. They can’t take everyone. Why does it matter if the elite kids want to be even greater? 

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2 minutes ago, bigbird said:

It destroys high school teams, it affects coaching careers, and hurts the community.  A lot of players get noticed and recruited when scouts come to see the "stud".  Those same players don't get noticed when the stud is poached from the team. Coaches, whose careers are graded on wins and losses are affected, and communities, that the schools are in, are affected (right or wrong).

 

For example, in the movie Hoosiers, would the coach had survived without Jimmy? How would Hickory's season fared without Jimmy?  What impact did the championship run have on that community?  All 3 we're affected by one player being there.

Jakai Clark is a perfect example of this for this year.  He's committed to a major university but if Pappoe and a couple others weren't at his high school where might he have committed... Ga Southern?

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I am in the boat with @ClaytonAU & @ellitor.  I don't mind what they are doing.  I don't feel like they are destroying high school football at all.  I mean they can only accept so many players (for any sport).  These kids go down there and learn to be great student athletes.  IMG has facilities that are better than a lot of D1 college programs.  The coaching is top of the line.  The competition they are going against on a daily basis is some of the best in the country.  Teacher to student ratio is like 1:10. (got from here)  How many public schools have that kind of ratio?  IMG is a way to help some of these kids get a taste of college so they are better prepared when they get to college.  Better prepared physically, academically and the mental side of being away from home.  

I do understand what @bigbird says that if a kid goes to IMG then scouts are not coming to that players hometown (or road game) to see other talent.  But again, it is not like they are taking every top 5* kid in the country.  They have a limit in every sport of how many they take.  There are still plenty of talented young men out there.

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2 minutes ago, ClaytonAU said:

Okay, so what’s the problem? IMG is taking all the “good/elite kids?” They’re not. They can’t take everyone. Why does it matter if the elite kids want to be even greater? 

I don't think they become "greater"... that's my opinion.  Sure maybe they might be more prepared for playing/practice with players equal to them but I don't think they are improving the upside of the players at all.  

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2 minutes ago, ClaytonAU said:

Okay, so what’s the problem? IMG is taking all the “good/elite kids?” They’re not. They can’t take everyone. Why does it matter if the elite kids want to be even greater? 

Probably not an epidemic as long as there's only one IMG. 

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2 minutes ago, corchjay said:

I don't think they become "greater"... that's my opinion.  Sure maybe they might be more prepared for playing/practice with players equal to them but I don't think they are improving the upside of the players at all.  

Asa Martin?

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Let me just throw a question out for everyone?

Other then Hoover alums... who is tired of Hoover winning state championships?

The reason I ask is because it's the same mentality as IMG.  Get the best coach, they they have the resources to pay top dollar for a high school coach.  They build the facilities.  But they also seem to get " transfers" from Woodlawn,  Hueytown, Calera, Blount County etc...  So trust me it trickles down and ruins high school football for other teams

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Just now, McLoofus said:

Probably not an epidemic as long as there's only one IMG. 

But there is already more than 1 IMG.  IMG just took what the private schools are doing to the next level.  Players leave public schools all the time to join private schools that have better academic and athletic programs.  So those who don't like IMG, are you also against private schools?

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3 minutes ago, LKEEL75 said:

But there is already more than 1 IMG.  IMG just took what the private schools are doing to the next level.  Players leave public schools all the time to join private schools that have better academic and athletic programs.  So those who don't like IMG, are you also against private schools?

Hate to put it this way but most private schools aren't developed because of academics or athletics.  They are generally created to be around like minded people.  Either religious preference or racism in a lot of cases.   I'm just calling a spade a spade

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Just now, LKEEL75 said:

But there is already more than 1 IMG.  IMG just took what the private schools are doing to the next level.  Players leave public schools all the time to join private schools that have better academic and athletic programs.  So those who don't like IMG, are you also against private schools?

Which other private schools focus primarily on athletics? Which other private schools field an entire football team with "recruits"? Which other private schools aren't allowed to participate in their state playoffs? 

I went to private school. Once started a game at right tackle weighing about 165 lbs. Ended up playing every single position on the field for at least one snap except QB, center or kick returner. Yes, that includes special teams. So no, I don't think that all, most, or even a meaningful percentage of private schools are primarily feeders for college athletics. 

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26 minutes ago, bigbird said:

It destroys high school teams, it affects coaching careers, and hurts the community.  A lot of players get noticed and recruited when scouts come to see the "stud".  Those same players don't get noticed when the stud is poached from the team. Coaches, whose careers are graded on wins and losses are affected, and communities, that the schools are in, are affected (right or wrong).

 

For example, in the movie Hoosiers, would the coach had survived without Jimmy? How would Hickory's season fared without Jimmy?  What impact did the championship run have on that community?  All 3 we're affected by one player being there.

I don’t mind recruiting at the high school level. I don’t see why most states have rules against it

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2 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Which other private schools focus primarily on athletics?

If you have a teacher to student ratio of 1:10 then you are worried about more than just athletics.  These kids are not going down there and not getting an education.  In fact after having 3 go through public high school and 2 almost done with it, I feel more than confident the kids coming from IMG will be 100 times more ready academically for college than most kids coming from a public school.  Most of the kids I know that go to private schools also have excellent academic backgrounds and do well in college.  I get that athletics is a huge focus, but the school has 1200 students enrolled.  I am pretty sure not all of them are playing sports.  So why would they be there if not for academics?

5 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Which other private schools field an entire football team with "recruits"?

According to the thoughts of the BoE in state of AL, they must think that all private schools do this or they would not have come up with these new ridiculous rules around if a private school wins too much then they have to move up in classification.  No not all private schools are recruiting and only have elite talent there.  However, that doesn't stop them from recruiting and pulling in elite talent from public schools and that is the issue I was addressing.  IMG & private schools recruit players from public schools.  That is well known.  IMG has just taken it to the next level and recruit at a much wider net than just local area.  And for that they do not compete in state championships.

9 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Which other private schools aren't allowed to participate in their state playoffs? 

Both the state & IMG have recognized their abilities and realize that it would not be fair to compete in playoffs.  .  So they do not compete in playoffs and state titles.  Instead they travel the country and play the best teams out there.  So what is the difference.  They play the best teams in the country week in and week out.  No other high school (private or public) plays the schedule that IMG does.  I am not sure why you even bring this up.  It is a moot point.

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It’s a social issue now.  Let me just join the team that I’m assured championships.  It’s trickled down and up.  Miami Heat with Lebron, Golden State with KD.  Anyone?

Hoover and Trussville in Alabama.  Trust me Mt.  Brook, Bob Jones and others are soon to follow.  

So what is a school like St. Clair to do?  They lost a player in Ja’Varuis that could have legitimately taken them deep into the playoffs 

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If we wanna call out Hoover and Trussville you might as well call out Central too. Central, while they haven’t won a championship, still have Columbus kids as well as outside PC kids who somehow “rezone” or “move” and get to play at Central. Saw one of our most talented kids at Columbus High for football move to Central two years ago

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8 minutes ago, LKEEL75 said:

If you have a teacher to student ratio of 1:10 then you are worried about more than just athletics.  These kids are not going down there and not getting an education.  In fact after having 3 go through public high school and 2 almost done with it, I feel more than confident the kids coming from IMG will be 100 times more ready academically for college than most kids coming from a public school.  Most of the kids I know that go to private schools also have excellent academic backgrounds and do well in college.  I get that athletics is a huge focus, but the school has 1200 students enrolled.  I am pretty sure not all of them are playing sports.  So why would they be there if not for academics?

Right. Private schools typically have better academics than public schools, because private schools have better resources and are focused primarily on academics. As for the non-athletic students at IMG, no, there probably aren't any. This is from the IMG website:
 

Quote

BOARDING SCHOOL PROGRAM PURPOSE

At the IMG Academy boarding school in Florida, we are committed to a personalized, purpose-driven learning environment in which boarding school student-athletes are challenged to master a broad range of skills and competencies. Motivated by the belief that passion drives, drive focuses, and focus empowers; rigor and quality performance define our foundational approach to growth, both in the classroom and on the playing field for boarding school students. Equally important is our embedded emphasis on character development and social responsibility, which we adjudge to be a vital component in our quest to prepare boarding school student-athletes for the next step in their life’s journey.

Granted, they're probably doing a great job of fitting in classes between practices, but I doubt there's enough time in the day for one or the other to not take a hit, and it clearly isn't athletics. Btw, not sure if you know, but the school is run by a sports marketing company.

14 minutes ago, LKEEL75 said:

Both the state & IMG have recognized their abilities and realize that it would not be fair to compete in playoffs.  .  So they do not compete in playoffs and state titles.  Instead they travel the country and play the best teams out there.  So what is the difference.  They play the best teams in the country week in and week out.  No other high school (private or public) plays the schedule that IMG does.  I am not sure why you even bring this up.  It is a moot point.

Because you equated IMG and private schools without qualification:

36 minutes ago, LKEEL75 said:

So those who don't like IMG, are you also against private schools?

 

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@McLoofus I do equate IMG and private schools because IMG is a boarding school which is by definition a private school.  I won't degrade you or anyone else reading this by explanation of exact differences between boarding & private schools (but if anyone is interested, Google is your friend).  Yes IMG is run by a sports agency, but that does not mean they are not also focused on academics.  Again from the same website that does boarding school reviews:

Quote
  • IMG Academy is where potential becomes reality. It is where passion and dedication are channeled into accomplishment. It is where the foundation is built for future success. Simply, it is where people from around the world come to be their own, personal best. IMG Academy is the world`s premier boarding school for dedicated and passionate student-athletes. With a seamless methodology that equally cultivates academic growth, athletic improvement, character development and social responsibility, IMG creates leaders and influencers who are better prepared than most of their peers to take on the next stages of their lives. By learning in an environment that both challenges and supports them, IMG student-athletes acquire the skill of balance and prioritization. All the while, they grow their cultural understanding through interaction with student-athletes from across the nation and more than 80 countries. 
  •  
  • Academics: A world-renowned Pre-K -12 institution that includes post-graduate offerings, IMG Academy balances academics, athletics, character development and social responsibility. Through small class sizes, an accomplished faculty recognized for teaching excellence, the encouragement of creativity and discussion, and one-on-one tutoring availability, IMG Academy has sent student-athletes to some of the highest-performing universities in the nation.

They have 1200 students.  You can't honestly say that all 1200 students are playing sports.  That is not possible.  They are like a lot of private schools that do recruit players.  Take Madison Academy for example.  I know that they recruit players and they get most of the ones that they recruit.  By doing this they have won numerous state titles in the major sports through the years.  Not all private schools recruit or are as successful as MA.  However, it does not take away from the fact that a lot of private schools recruit.  Just like some of the public schools recruit, except they have to be much more quite about it in order to prevent sanctions.  

So yes I lumped IMG with private schools.  I guess I didn't expect someone to argue that I was saying ALL private schools.  Just like I wouldn't be saying ALL public schools recruit.  But it is a fairly accepted notion that most private schools recruit.  It is also a fairly accepted notion that some of the bigger named high schools recruit.  It is quite obvious by looking at the programs and transfers moving between schools that recruiting is happening at the high school level in both public and private schools.  IMG just took this to the next level and said "We are going to get the best of the best and give them the best we can."

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I don’t like the fact that any high school can “recruit,” but I am admittedly biased since my high school was never one of those but always seemed to play those schools lol

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3 minutes ago, LKEEL75 said:

They have 1200 students.  You can't honestly say that all 1200 students are playing sports.  That is not possible. 

If there's a place on their website that just says "students" instead of "student-athletes", then I will stand corrected.

Btw, they list 73 players on their varsity football roster. So that leaves 1,127 kids for all other sports combined, including boys and girls, for all grades. Oh, and JV football. 

By the way, this is from their academics page:

Quote

While offering both a non-boarding and boarding experience, on-campus residence halls allow student-athletes to find a home in close proximity to the Academic Center and world class training facilities for their respective sports. Unparalleled athletic program offerings meet prestigious academics in a dynamic and diverse environment that allows student-athletes to reach their full potential.


 

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Also, yes, recruiting exists at lots of schools. Again, though, we are talking about recruiting an entire student body vs a few blue chip kids. 

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5 hours ago, ellitor said:

I don’t mind recruiting at the high school level. I don’t see why most states have rules against it

I don't think you have thought this through. Free-for-all recruiting at the high school level would eventually result in maybe a half-dozen super powers in any given state and the balance  would be schools that might as well drop the revenue sports.

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10 hours ago, bigbird said:

It destroys high school teams, it affects coaching careers, and hurts the community.  A lot of players get noticed and recruited when scouts come to see the "stud".  Those same players don't get noticed when the stud is poached from the team. Coaches, whose careers are graded on wins and losses are affected, and communities, that the schools are in, are affected (right or wrong).

 

For example, in the movie Hoosiers, would the coach had survived without Jimmy? How would Hickory's season fared without Jimmy?  What impact did the championship run have on that community?  All 3 we're affected by one player being there.

If not for Jimmy, I would always think of Gene Hackman as the kinda bad Little Bill from “Unforgiven” instead of the good Norman Dale from “Hoosiers”. I’m really thankful for Jimmy....

 

P.S. Plus, “Hoosiers” is one of my favorite movies of all time. Anybody that doesn’t get a lump in their throat when Coach Dale says “I love you guys”....well, maybe time to go look for a soul...

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10 hours ago, corchjay said:

That's what I said.  They aren't taking the average joes... they are taking the elite.  

Shea Patterson is probably the worst example of this you could have used.  Sloppy QB play in an offense built to feature a passing QB, got injured and now appears to have run from a little competition up to Michigan where he is going to yet another QB "guru" that hasn't developed crap since the 49ers.  

And Patterson will now have to face a more recent "recruit" with the grad transfer Jeff George headed to Michigan from Illinois......so at this point Mich has 5 highly rated QBs and at least two , maybe 3 are there by transfer and I guess prohibited from transferring again. 

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Like this in basketball with Oak hill and such. I have no problem with it as long as it doesn’t affect the state championship outcomes and what not. If a kid wants to go and train with the elite, then so be it. Yes it does water down high school sports. Most college basketball coaches don’t even go to high school games to recruit but the AAU circuit because that is where all the talent is. Also , In the west coast a good majority of their private schools definitely recruit and still compete in state championships. I think in situations like that, they should have different divisions in the state tourney for private and public schools. That won’t ever happen though.

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