Swimming and Diving Update.

[Mikey 16,550]

4 hours ago, AU64 said:

Fortunately also there is some middle ground...... and IMO each sport ought to be able to cover it's variable costs...scholarships and coaching salaries.

Tennis, Equestrian, Track and Field, Volleyball and so forth will never bring in enough to pay for uniforms and travel, let alone scholarships, coaching salaries and laundry expenses. Do away with all the sports that lose money and we won't have much at all. Some schools would have zero sports. Is that what you want?

[AU64 10,122]

11 hours ago, Mikey said:

Tennis, Equestrian, Track and Field, Volleyball and so forth will never bring in enough to pay for uniforms and travel, let alone scholarships, coaching salaries and laundry expenses. Do away with all the sports that lose money and we won't have much at all. Some schools would have zero sports. Is that what you want?

 You talk as if there are only two options ......mall or none . I think that is called the straw man argument. Just saying that if someone were so inclined , they could window the  programs down a bit and remove the biggest losers. 

[Mikey 16,550]

12 hours ago, AU64 said:

 You talk as if there are only two options ......mall or none . I think that is called the straw man argument. Just saying that if someone were so inclined , they could window the  programs down a bit and remove the biggest losers. 

Not me, Old Friend. You wrote this:" IMO each sport ought to be able to cover it's variable costs...scholarships and coaching salaries. " If you only want sports that cover their own costs, then we are out of the SEC and NCAA D-1 because a school must field a certain number of teams to qualify. Remove the money losers and you're left with football, men's basketball in a good year and nothing else.

[AU64 10,122]

10 hours ago, Mikey said:

Not me, Old Friend. You wrote this:" IMO each sport ought to be able to cover it's variable costs...scholarships and coaching salaries. " If you only want sports that cover their own costs, then we are out of the SEC and NCAA D-1 because a school must field a certain number of teams to qualify. Remove the money losers and you're left with football, men's basketball in a good year and nothing else.

OK, I accept that most could not cover their cost though it is not a bad goal for them.  But consider the size of AU's athletic budget and the budgets of more than half the NCAA FBS schools and just look at the ones with half the revenue of AU...and yet they seem to compete favorably and field all sports.  Just wondering if AU spends as much money as we do because if it is available   College sports is like the government....no matter how much money comes in, there is always a need for more. 

And to your point, people complain about the price of football tickets...just hoping they realize that if there were truth in pricing, the tickets would also show the portion of the ticket price that goes to support 15 or so money losing sports......something along the line of " 67% of this ticket price goes to pay for the non-profit sports fielded by Auburn University"  We thank you for your support.

[auburnphan 6,050]

Ran into a former Marsh athlete......he basically said that those that could help support the swimming and diving will not do so as long as Jay Jacobs is in charge.  

[mustache eagle 2,388]

wow

that is very unfortunate.  weren't there similar things said about the improvements to Jordan Hare?

[augolf1716 21,096]

8 hours ago, mustache eagle said:

wow

that is very unfortunate.  weren't there similar things said about the improvements to Jordan Hare?

I can guarantee its the reason on JH

[aubaseball 2,583]

Auburn currently in fourth place after day 1 of 2017 sec championship

[Mikey 16,550]

2 hours ago, aubaseball said:

Auburn currently in fourth place after day 1 of 2017 sec championship

Cryin' shame. Gone from 16 straight SEC championships to this in such a short time.

[aubaseball 2,583]

AU men in 2nd after day two and women in 3rd.   

[lionheartkc 6,150]

17 hours ago, aubaseball said:

AU men in 2nd after day two and women in 3rd.   

Wow... looks like the men's is Florida and everyone else.  They have an 140.5 point lead on us.

[Mikey 16,550]

Men a distant 3rd, women a distant 5th after day 4. One more day to go but it looks like a championship isn't in the cards this year.

https://swimswam.com/2017-sec-championships-day-4-finals-live-recap/

[Mikey 16,550]

Over and done. Men 3rd, women 5th.

FINAL WOMEN’S TEAM SCORES

  1. Texas A&M University             1304   2. Georgia, University of           1113
  3. Kentucky, University of           938   4. Tennessee, University of, Knox    855
  5. Auburn University                 849   6. Missouri, University of           786
  7. Florida, University of            624   8. Louisiana State University        550
  9. South Carolina, University of,    505  10. Alabama, University of            464
 11. Arkansas, University of, Fayet    284  12. Vanderbilt University             104

FINAL MEN’S TEAM SCORES

 1. Florida, University of         1271.5   2. Georgia, University of            985
  3. Auburn University               925.5   4. Alabama, University of            897
  5. Missouri, University of           771   6. Tennessee, University of, Knox  770.5
  7. Texas A&M University              759   8. South Carolina, University of,    696
  9. Louisiana State University        641  10. Kentucky, University of         481.5

[AUBwins 10,064]

At least we still beat the turds.  It would be nice to take this sport back over. 

[AURex 1,984]

Congrats are due to the hard work, dedication and effort by Auburn's swimmers and divers. And especially to those individuals who won their events or finished close in the finals.

However, it wasn't even close at the team level. It's depressing that Auburn S&D cannot even be competitive against the best teams in the SEC, much less at Nationals. A sad slide for a once-powerful program.

 

[AUGoo 2,659]

7 hours ago, AUBwins said:

At least we still beat the turds.  It would be nice to take this sport back over. 

Congrats!!

We're the tallest midgets in the state.

[AU64 10,122]

Interesting that on the combined men's and women's teams (60+) there are only 2 women and 3 men from the state of Alabama. 

Is swimming that bad in the state?  do they even have swimming in HS? 

Looks like maybe 1/3 rd of the roster is made up of international students.

[monsterdb 3]

32 minutes ago, AU64 said:

Interesting that on the combined men's and women's teams (60+) there are only 2 women and 3 men from the state of Alabama. 

Is swimming that bad in the state?  do they even have swimming in HS? 

Looks like maybe 1/3 rd of the roster is made up of international students.

yes, swimming is that bad in the state as a whole. One of the worst in fact. The teams (swimming and track and field) have really suffered from the day the State of Alabama decided to take the away the ability of getting INSTATE tuition in the 2000's. Compared to the States of Georgia, Florida, Texas and California, all hot recruiting areas for both sports have some sort of in state scholarships'. These athletes can go to their state school basically free, great education, great coaching or come to Auburn and spend thousands of dollars for great education and great coaching. In todays economics most families opt for the basically free education. Its not like these sports have a pro life after they finish school. This financial burden in trying to recruit these out of state kids to your school is huge.. Remember out of state its costing around $35,000 a year so the scholarship has to be a very high percentile to make it affordable or comparable too their local state tuition,  and you can't miss on that kids talent. Plus, there are only so many scholarships available for men and women.

Both Track and Field and Swimming at both Auburn and Alabama has suffered - just look at what they were in the early 2000's and where they are now. Soccer and softball have not suffered as much, my guess that is because the in state talent is pretty good and help fill out rosters.

Well that is my two cents from the outside looking in.

 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

15 hours ago, monsterdb said:

Both Track and Field and Swimming at both Auburn and Alabama has suffered - just look at what they were in the early 2000's and where they are now. Soccer and softball have not suffered as much, my guess that is because the in state talent is pretty good and help fill out rosters.

Also because Soccer is becoming a bigger name and Softball has a coach that everyone wants to play for.  If we still had Marsh, I would be willing to bet more parents would be willing to pay to have their kids coached by the best.

[monsterdb 3]

1 hour ago, lionheartkc said:

Also because Soccer is becoming a bigger name and Softball has a coach that everyone wants to play for.  If we still had Marsh, I would be willing to bet more parents would be willing to pay to have their kids coached by the best.

LOL, don't fool yourself. Its economics. It is one of the reasons Marsh left. He could see the writing on the wall, his recruiting ability was severely diminished. Pay little of nothing or pay $15, 000 (for a good good good scholarship)  for 4 years. The math doesn't add up.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

2 minutes ago, monsterdb said:

LOL, don't fool yourself. Its economics. It is one of the reasons Marsh left. He could see the writing on the wall, his recruiting ability was severely diminished. Pay little of nothing or pay $15, 000 (for a good good good scholarship)  for 4 years. The math doesn't add up.

Of course the math doesn't add up, but when your kid loves a sport and they are good enough to have the opportunity to play for the best, you afford them that opportunity. Don't forget that, when Marsh was at Auburn, they were also a veritable farm team for the Olympics. Private training costs a heck of a lot more and doesn't come with a high quality education.

Marsh left because he and the program weren't being given the respect that they deserve from the AD, because all the PTB who hold the purse strings care about is football, and when they pay credence to any other sport, swimming and diving is FAR down the list.

[monsterdb 3]

19 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Of course the math doesn't add up, but when your kid loves a sport and they are good enough to have the opportunity to play for the best, you afford them that opportunity. Don't forget that, when Marsh was at Auburn, they were also a veritable farm team for the Olympics. Private training costs a heck of a lot more and doesn't come with a high quality education.

Marsh left because he and the program weren't being given the respect that they deserve from the AD, because all the PTB who hold the purse strings care about is football, and when they pay credence to any other sport, swimming and diving is FAR down the list.

FYI, I swam for Auburn, my kids swim year round. I have know David for over 20 years. There are so many errors in those statements I would not know where to start. So, we will probably not agree, which is fine. I just want to state the biggest problem with both of those programs is the instate/outstate tuition coupled with the lousy feeder programs from the high school teams has hurt both sport programs, whereas, soccer and softball seem to have those resources. Number one player in softball was an Alabama high school player, it helps. It is a complex problem. ALSO, the team swam great at SEC for the talent they have, so they do deserve credit - swimmers and coaches.  

[lionheartkc 6,150]

22 minutes ago, monsterdb said:

I just want to state the biggest problem with both of those programs is the instate/outstate tuition coupled with the lousy feeder programs from the high school teams has hurt both sport programs

I'm sure those are huge problems, and I don't deny that the kids and coaches did a fine job this year, but as someone who swam for Auburn and has known David for 20 years, I can't believe you would deny that there are parents of swimmers who would incur out of state tuition costs in order for their kids to swim for him.

I'm not talking out of my butt.  My best friend was on track to become an Olympic swimmer, until he broke his neck.  He swam for Kenyon, but Auburn was his second choice (he would have been on Marsh's first team). At the time, his family lived in Lanett, so Auburn would have been closer and cheaper, but Kenyon was the best of the best at that time (I guess they still are with their NCAA record number of titles).  Had he been a few years younger, and seen what Marsh could do, he probably would have been an Auburn swimmer, not have broken his neck, and been in the Olympics.

13 minutes ago, monsterdb said:

Number one player in softball was an Alabama high school player, it helps

Yes, but look at the Snow sisters... Not only did Taylon decide to come to Auburn, from California, but her sister transferred to Auburn as well.  That's parents paying out of state for 2 players, minus what scholarships they can get, because they want to play for Coach Myers.  A great coach can make a difference. Hawk is a solid coach, but he's no Marsh.

[monsterdb 3]

5 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

I'm sure those are huge problems, and I don't deny that the kids and coaches did a fine job this year, but as someone who swam for Auburn and has known David for 20 years, I can't believe you would deny that there are parents of swimmers who would incur out of state tuition costs in order for their kids to swim for him.

I'm not talking out of my butt.  My best friend was on track to become an Olympic swimmer, until he broke his neck.  He swam for Kenyon, but Auburn was his second choice (he would have been on Marsh's first team). At the time, his family lived in Lanett, so Auburn would have been closer and cheaper, but Kenyon was the best of the best at that time (I guess they still are with their NCAA record number of titles).  Had he been a few years younger, and seen what Marsh could do, he probably would have been an Auburn swimmer, not have broken his neck, and been in the Olympics.

Yes, but look at the Snow sisters... Not only did Taylon decide to come to Auburn, from California, but her sister transferred to Auburn as well.  That's parents paying out of state for 2 players, minus what scholarships they can get, because they want to play for Coach Myers.  A great coach can make a difference. Hawk is a solid coach, but he's no Marsh.

 

5 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

I'm sure those are huge problems, and I don't deny that the kids and coaches did a fine job this year, but as someone who swam for Auburn and has known David for 20 years, I can't believe you would deny that there are parents of swimmers who would incur out of state tuition costs in order for their kids to swim for him.

I'm not talking out of my butt.  My best friend was on track to become an Olympic swimmer, until he broke his neck.  He swam for Kenyon, but Auburn was his second choice (he would have been on Marsh's first team). At the time, his family lived in Lanett, so Auburn would have been closer and cheaper, but Kenyon was the best of the best at that time (I guess they still are with their NCAA record number of titles).  Had he been a few years younger, and seen what Marsh could do, he probably would have been an Auburn swimmer, not have broken his neck, and been in the Olympics.

Yes, but look at the Snow sisters... Not only did Taylon decide to come to Auburn, from California, but her sister transferred to Auburn as well.  That's parents paying out of state for 2 players, minus what scholarships they can get, because they want to play for Coach Myers.  A great coach can make a difference. Hawk is a solid coach, but he's no Marsh.

I am realistic, some would pay for the costs but I don't think many. I know if I didn't get instate tuition I would not be able to go to Auburn, I had brothers and sisters that needed a college education also. I am going to be in the same situation, sadly.  But both the snow girls are on full rides if I am not mistaken so that helps. Yes, Hawk is no Marsh, but Marsh coached him and mentored him and some of that has rubbed off. He is in a difficult position with the limited scholarship availability (ie instate tuition)  and more importantly the unrealistic expectations of the swim program in the eyes of former swimmers and alumni. Goes with the job of following a legend.

Did your friend swim in the Georgia LSC, if so I probably know of him.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

Just now, monsterdb said:

Did your friend swim in the Georgia LSC, if so I probably know of him.

I honestly have no idea.  His name is Trent Stanley.