‘I Had Nothing to Do With That!’ Obama Dodges Blame For Skyrocketing Premiums

[SaltyTiger 7,777]

18 minutes ago, quietfan said:

My feelings also.

Health care costs were already rising precipitously before the Affordable Care Act.  Since we have no way of knowing how bad things might be without Obamacare, we have no basis on which to conclude Obamacare made it worse.

Right, I was sick once and a snake bit me. I then got sicker, but I may have gotten sicker without the snake bite. True story - the snake was a Cottonmouth)

[MDM4AU 331]

I'll say this: Increases in utilization costs in the data I have seen between fully-insured, small-group plans (fully subject to ACA regulations) and self-insured plans (not fully subject to ACA regs) show major medical up in both but more-so in the FISG plans. With both FISG and SI plans, the Rx spend is on another level and trending worse by the day. When you brerak the Rx spend down to view specialty drugs then the trend is even greater.

 

[homersapien 11,357]

16 hours ago, wdefromtx said:

I agree. I blame republicans for it as well. They went along with it and wouldn't block it and offer a better solution. However, I think that it was Obama's and the dems intention to eventually force us into a single payer system or some sort of government run system from the beginning. I looked at what was in some of the plan when it passed and could tell it was designed to penalize good health care plans and eventually force almost everyone into an expensive plan that doesn't do anything good. And that has been happening to myself and a lot of people I know. 

You are aware that the basic design of Obamacare was a Republican proposal?

Most Democrats wanted a single payer system as well they should have.

[kd4au 1,145]

1 hour ago, icanthearyou said:

I do.

Well I would say you would be in the minority of people that pay for their own ins. and do not think Obamacare has increased your cost.I can not say with certainty Obamacare has caused my increases but something sure has, I guess it is just one big coincidence.I sure can not see how obamacare has decreased any cost like promised.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

23 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

I did not ask you what you believed. are saying you don't believe most people are decent human beings?

Well, pardon me for shying away from stating something as absolute.  I think it is arrogant and ignorant to express opinion as fact.  It is also deceptive.

What I am saying is this, it is a political argument purely based on politics.  Rhetoric and reality are often very different.  Practical concerns are often trumped by political implications.  The left is naturally disingenuous when discussing the inherent pitfalls of Obamacare, or any more socialized system.  The right is even more disingenuous by painting the outcome as a "catastrophe".  

The realities are these:

Our system stinks in terms of cost versus outcomes compared to other developed countries.

Our system tends to favor treatment over cure.  Our system loves to create "program patients".

Our system ties insurance to employment.  This is ineffective and inefficient for both individuals and businesses.

Pharma and Insurance industries spend incredible sums to influence legislation.  Their goals are not benevolent or humanitarian.

Data suggests that as a group, we do not exercise and eat properly.  Healthcare costs for Americans over 55 is dramatically higher than in other countries.

Costs for healthcare have been rising well ahead of any other economic metrics for years, with the exception of higher education.

To this point, the above issues have not been effectively addressed.  However, we do have more Americans with access.  We are taking care of those who were previously, uninsurable.

 

So, to answer your question, IMO, some of us are decent, some of the time but, as a whole, we will not be truly decent human beings until the practical and compassionate argument totally displaces the political implications and associated rhetoric.  Politics and ideology are not an excuse, or argument, for not doing what is right.  The money is there. We need to work together so that it is allocated to effectively provide healthcare for all Americans, not so that a few Americans can profit mightily.

 

[SaltyTiger 7,777]

11 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

Well, pardon me for shying away from stating something as absolute.  I think it is arrogant and ignorant to express opinion as fact.  It is also deceptive.

What I am saying is this, it is a political argument purely based on politics.  Rhetoric and reality are often very different.  Practical concerns are often trumped by political implications.  The left is naturally disingenuous when discussing the inherent pitfalls of Obamacare, or any more socialized system.  The right is even more disingenuous by painting the outcome as a "catastrophe".  

The realities are these:

Our system stinks in terms of cost versus outcomes compared to other developed countries.

Our system tends to favor treatment over cure.  Our system loves to create "program patients".

Our system ties insurance to employment.  This is ineffective and inefficient for both individuals and businesses.

Pharma and Insurance industries spend incredible sums to influence legislation.  Their goals are not benevolent or humanitarian.

Data suggests that as a group, we do not exercise and eat properly.  Healthcare costs for Americans over 55 is dramatically higher than in other countries.

Costs for healthcare have been rising well ahead of any other economic metrics for years, with the exception of higher education.

To this point, the above issues have not been effectively addressed.  However, we do have more Americans with access.  We are taking care of those who were previously, uninsurable.

 

So, to answer your question, IMO, some of us are decent, some of the time but, as a whole, we will not be truly decent human beings until the practical and compassionate argument totally displaces the political implications and associated rhetoric.  Politics and ideology are not an excuse, or argument, for not doing what is right.  The money is there. We need to work together so that it is allocated to effectively provide healthcare for all Americans, not so that a few Americans can profit mightily.

 

Did not intend on all of that but you did answer the question. Well said ICHY. I could take issue with you on a few items but well said and thoughtfully sincere.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

27 minutes ago, homersapien said:

You are aware that the basic design of Obamacare was a Republican proposal?

Most Democrats wanted a single payer system as well they should have.

Basic design by itself had some merit. But once you install the "Cadillac tax" and other items your intention is to do away with good plans. They did it under the guise of well since people have such good coverage and it doesn't cost them much out of pocket it is going to cause prices to skyrocket. When research was done that showed that this is not truly the case.

I am pissed at both parties for this POS healthcare plan. And also pissed that they haven't done anything to repeal the "Cadillac Tax in it"

 

Sad thing is....people hear free college for all and they think how great that will be. If Hillary is elected and she gets some bogus free college for all to pass, just watch as tuition skyrockets and some how the majority of the middle class gets screwed because the absurd low cut off limits they will apply are going to make it impossible for a lot of people to afford. If they can't figure out healthcare they don't need to screw up education as well.

 

[icanthearyou 4,462]

5 minutes ago, kd4au said:

Well I would say you would be in the minority of people that pay for their own ins. and do not think Obamacare has increased your cost.I can not say with certainty Obamacare has caused my increases but something sure has, I guess it is just one big coincidence.I sure can not see how obamacare has decreased any cost like promised.

I think you are beginning to get the picture.  You have to delve deeper than the partisan political rhetoric if you want to know the truth.  Neither side is completely genuine.  There are individuals in congress on BOTH sides of the aisle who will sell out the country/society for their own interests.  The money spent on lobbying is not spent for no reason.  There is a very clear motive.  Unfortunately, partisan politics obscures the blatant corruption.  If you look at the last two major pieces of legislation, ACA and Medicare Part D, it becomes obvious that, cost reduction was never a serious goal.  Our willingness to be more political than practical and genuine allows the corruption to continue.  We want to rail against what we believe is a counter ideological perspective while, ignoring that a most fundamental tenant has ceased to exist, the "government of the people".

[icanthearyou 4,462]

2 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Did not intend on all of that but you did answer the question. Well said ICHY. I could take issue with you on a few items but well said and thoughtfully sincere.

I am glad you agree with some and, glad you do not agree on all.  That is how thoughtful discourse should work.  I don't know everything.  You don't know everything.  Let's discuss and make good decisions.  

In Washington, it's not the ability or ideology I worry about as much as the hidden agendas.  I fear the political rhetoric that divides us, provides excellent cover for those who practice the politics of total self interest.  Politics is creating a lot of wealth.  Our government is for sale, openly, unabashedly.  

 

[icanthearyou 4,462]

15 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Basic design by itself had some merit. But once you install the "Cadillac tax" and other items your intention is to do away with good plans. They did it under the guise of well since people have such good coverage and it doesn't cost them much out of pocket it is going to cause prices to skyrocket. When research was done that showed that this is not truly the case.

I am pissed at both parties for this POS healthcare plan. And also pissed that they haven't done anything to repeal the "Cadillac Tax in it"

 

Sad thing is....people hear free college for all and they think how great that will be. If Hillary is elected and she gets some bogus free college for all to pass, just watch as tuition skyrockets and some how the majority of the middle class gets screwed because the absurd low cut off limits they will apply are going to make it impossible for a lot of people to afford. If they can't figure out healthcare they don't need to screw up education as well.

 

I do not believe it is the plan itself that you should be upset with.  I think it is where the costs were ultimately allocated.  IMHO, it is a "tax" and unfortunately, too much of the burden has fallen on the middle-middle class and the upper-middle class.  The real question is why?

I think the answer is obscured by politics and rhetoric, not revealed by politics and rhetoric.  It's time for all of us to grow up and stop playing the "rah rah" cheerleaders for a political party.  Both parties have more than their fair share of self-serving, corrupt members of congress.  The stench from both parties is intolerable.  However, it is our willingness to play along that is most frightening.

 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

32 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

I do not believe it is the plan itself that you should be upset with.  I think it is where the costs were ultimately allocated.  IMHO, it is a "tax" and unfortunately, too much of the burden has fallen on the middle-middle class and the upper-middle class.  The real question is why?

I think the answer is obscured by politics and rhetoric, not revealed by politics and rhetoric.  It's time for all of us to grow up and stop playing the "rah rah" cheerleaders for a political party.  Both parties have more than their fair share of self-serving, corrupt members of congress.  The stench from both parties is intolerable.  However, it is our willingness to play along that is most frightening.

 

Trust me I am fed up with both parties.....(more like fed up with the cronies in DC.) I think most people have gotten to the point where they feel standing up to DC is a lost cause because they have gotten so corrupt.

 

 

[kd4au 1,145]

3 hours ago, wdefromtx said:

Trust me I am fed up with both parties.....(more like fed up with the cronies in DC.) I think most people have gotten to the point where they feel standing up to DC is a lost cause because they have gotten so corrupt.

 

 

Your right both parties are screwing the middle class.

[Auburn85 432]

It's not Obama's fault. Obama didn't force the insurance companies to raise their prices or end their plans. However, Republican governors have and are actively sabotaging the implementation by refusing to expand Medicaid and taking the free money to help those most vulnerable. Plus, the plan is based solely on Republican ideas. President Obama bent over backwards to include Republicans in this historic piece of legislation, but the Republicans were more concerned with making Obama a one term president. It's pretty clear Obama didn't have a single thing to do with all the negative things in the Affordable Care Act. The Republicans made Obama look like a liar when he made statements that families would same money. Had Republicans done the right things, people would have saved money. Rather than criticizing the president, he should be praised for the courage to make drastic changes that benefit some. Hillary Clinton must be elected to preserve the Affordable Care Act. 

[AURaptor 1,122]

BS 85. It was 100% Barry's fault.  Jonathan Gruber proved  Obama to be a liar, not the Republicans.  There is no amount of foot stomping or denial you can produce which will change the facts.

[ArgoEagle 1,771]

On ‎10‎/‎21‎/‎2016 at 6:45 PM, japantiger said:

I read the articles Ichy....the data, you know, the numbers, I cited were from the article/site (kff.org) you posted.   I used your data to point out that you either didn't understand the article you were posting...or you are full of s***. ...or actually, in this case 'and". 

 

And I'm  still waiting for anyone to post how their premiums or coverage has gotten better....

You'll be dead and buried before you ever hear this.

[MDM4AU 331]

20 hours ago, Auburn85 said:

Obama didn't force the insurance companies to raise their prices or end their plans.

No, but this is the result of many of the ACA regulations. Even mechanisms put in place to incentivise more carriers into markets that have one BIG player have turned out to only help the BIG player. Take Alabama for instance...the individual market with ACA started out with 5 or 6 carriers. That has dwindled down to 1. Even small group carriers is down to 2. One more year of hits in the small group market and having to cut a $million$ checks to the BIG boy across town (see risk adjustment) and there will be just one player. All the co-ops have left the field. You do realize these increases have to be run by HHS before they go into effect, right? If HHS doesn't feel they are needed or appropriate they have the ability to make a public case of it.  To suggest the insurance companies as a whole just raised their rates for the hell of it or "because they could" is to not know the facts.

[AURaptor 1,122]

28 minutes ago, MDM4AU said:

No, but this is the result of many of the ACA regulations. 

Which means that it was exclusively Obama's fault. 

[icanthearyou 4,462]

35 minutes ago, AURaptor said:

Which means that it was exclusively Obama's fault. 

yea it is.  ever thing was perfict till barry come along.  healthcare was good and cheep.  barry sux.  libturds is dum.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

1 hour ago, MDM4AU said:

No, but this is the result of many of the ACA regulations. Even mechanisms put in place to incentivise more carriers into markets that have one BIG player have turned out to only help the BIG player. Take Alabama for instance...the individual market with ACA started out with 5 or 6 carriers. That has dwindled down to 1. Even small group carriers is down to 2. One more year of hits in the small group market and having to cut a $million$ checks to the BIG boy across town (see risk adjustment) and there will be just one player. All the co-ops have left the field. You do realize these increases have to be run by HHS before they go into effect, right? If HHS doesn't feel they are needed or appropriate they have the ability to make a public case of it.  To suggest the insurance companies as a whole just raised their rates for the hell of it or "because they could" is to not know the facts.

Which ones?

Why did this happen?

What drove "co-ops" out of the market?

What is the specific reason?

[channonc 466]

1 minute ago, icanthearyou said:

Which ones?

Why did this happen?

What drove "co-ops" out of the market?

What is the specific reason?

I'm curious for these answers too.  I'd also like to know how we get more healthy people to sign up, as I suspect this is one of the contributing factors to rate increases.  Additionally, I'd like to know whether insurance companies underbid to try to win the business of those coming into the exchange, and now realize that the competition was too fierce for people who were sicker than they believed they were.  (Those who were previously uninsurable)

 

[icanthearyou 4,462]

1 minute ago, channonc said:

I'm curious for these answers too.  I'd also like to know how we get more healthy people to sign up, as I suspect this is one of the contributing factors to rate increases.  Additionally, I'd like to know whether insurance companies underbid to try to win the business of those coming into the exchange, and now realize that the competition was too fierce for people who were sicker than they believed they were.  (Those who were previously uninsurable)

 

I think we have an answer!  Kind of a perfect situation.  Low ball initially, drive out competitors, guaranteed not to lose money, justifiable rate hike.

Funny how business people are pretty good at creating competitive advantages (by eliminating competition).

[MDM4AU 331]

ICHY & channonc, 

It's open house night at my daughter's school but I will try to answer you questions when I have a chance to sit back down at my computer. 

[AURaptor 1,122]

56 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

yea it is.  ever thing was perfict till barry come along.  healthcare was good and cheep.  barry sux.  libturds is dum.

The bat s*** crazy world of the Leftists on this board.  Fantastical false dichotomies, between " perfect "  ( which non one ever claimed ) and what we have now. 

HC had some leaks and squeaks, but now is a flaming pile of junk, flying down the road, completely out of control. I'd much rather take my chances w/ the PRE O-Care ride than post. 

[MDM4AU 331]

38 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

I think we have an answer!  Kind of a perfect situation.  Low ball initially, drive out competitors, guaranteed not to lose money, justifiable rate hike.

Funny how business people are pretty good at creating competitive advantages (by eliminating competition).

There was no guarantee not to lose money. Losing money is why many have dropped out.  One of the biggest players in the nation lost millions last year. They were simply big enough to absorb it. Others were not so lucky. 

[icanthearyou 4,462]

2 minutes ago, MDM4AU said:

ICHY & channonc, 

It's open house night at my daughter's school but I will try to answer you questions when I have a chance to sit back down at my computer. 

Take your time.  That is way more important than this nonsense.