Interesting Observation RE WRs at Auburn

[WDE_OxPx_2010 5,295]

Some posters have been saying this for years- the route tree is too simple in Malzahn's offense. It's a wonder we get these WR recruits. Question is: can you change a route tree in an offense AFTER the offense has been 'designed'? I.e. would a new position coach even be able to introduce new routes to existing plays?

 

"At Auburn, Coates played in a zone-option-read offense. He subsequently arrived in Pittsburgh as an unsophisticated route-runner, having little experience at curls, ins, crossings and screens. He didn't play in the slot and didn't go in motion. Initially, he got by with vertical routes and some quick hitches."

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2670863-how-sammie-coates-went-from-rookie-bust-to-the-latest-steelers-wr-success-story

 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

It appears that Rhett/Kodi are working on expanding our route tree.  Hopefully we'll keep seeing more. Still I think Kyle, who is basically this years Sammie, will primarily go vertical, and the more in-depth tree will be for Ryan/Darius and in some cases Tony.

[corchjay 5,311]

The biggest difference in our offense are the routes are set and there are no "option" routes based on coverage.  If you are called to run a fly you run the fly route you don't adjust to defensive alignment or in play adjustment like coming back to the ball.  You run your designed route that's call.  That helps with going fast and also creating space in certain areas of the field.  But yes you can do both.  Bama is the example this year however they don't go as fast as we do and I'm not sure how much route changing they are doing because their offense is much like our '13 offense run the ball throw the bomb.  

[mcgufcm 4,096]

It's a misconception that our offense doesn't include all the variable routes you might see elsewhere. As @corchjay said above, we don't have a lot of option routes designed into the offense, and we tend to cabin particular WRs into specific roles, which limits the routes they might be asked to run. Generally, our WR1 is an exception. Duke ran a lot of different things (flag, post, fly, slant, in/out, etc.), but Sammie was more of a specialist (bubble screen and fly was a big percentage of his work). Ricardo, after Duke was kicked out, did a lot of different things. Tony Stevens is running almost everything in the book this year. Other guys are more limited, which reduces the chances for blown assignments. We find guys that can execute a few things perfectly and limit them to those things. That makes us more predictable, but we try to address that with pace and alignment. If you go really fast and keep changing the look, even if you're doing the same things with the same guys, defenses tend to lose some of their discipline.

Rhett has been breaking tendencies though. We've seen more guys being asked to a broader list of routes. We've seen more spreading the ball and throwing on unpredictable downs (and out of uncommon sets). That's part of what's working for Rhett's playcalling.

[WDE_OxPx_2010 5,295]

1 minute ago, mcgufcm said:

It's a misconception that our offense doesn't include all the variable routes you might see elsewhere. As @corchjay said above, we don't have a lot of option routes designed into the offense, and we tend to cabin particular WRs into specific roles, which limits the routes they might be asked to run. Generally, our WR1 is an exception. Duke ran a lot of different things (flag, post, fly, slant, in/out, etc.), but Sammie was more of a specialist (bubble screen and fly was a big percentage of his work). Ricardo, after Duke was kicked out, did a lot of different things. Tony Stevens is running almost everything in the book this year. Other guys are more limited, which reduces the chances for blown assignments. We find guys that can execute a few things perfectly and limit them to those things. That makes us more predictable, but we try to address that with pace and alignment. If you go really fast and keep changing the look, even if you're doing the same things with the same guys, defenses tend to lose some of their discipline.

Rhett has been breaking tendencies though. We've seen more guys being asked to a broader list of routes. We've seen more spreading the ball and throwing on unpredictable downs (and out of uncommon sets). That's part of what's working for Rhett's playcalling.

That's good insight. Didn't realize all of that.

[corchjay 5,311]

27 minutes ago, mcgufcm said:

It's a misconception that our offense doesn't include all the variable routes you might see elsewhere. As @corchjay said above, we don't have a lot of option routes designed into the offense, and we tend to cabin particular WRs into specific roles, which limits the routes they might be asked to run. Generally, our WR1 is an exception. Duke ran a lot of different things (flag, post, fly, slant, in/out, etc.), but Sammie was more of a specialist (bubble screen and fly was a big percentage of his work). Ricardo, after Duke was kicked out, did a lot of different things. Tony Stevens is running almost everything in the book this year. Other guys are more limited, which reduces the chances for blown assignments. We find guys that can execute a few things perfectly and limit them to those things. That makes us more predictable, but we try to address that with pace and alignment. If you go really fast and keep changing the look, even if you're doing the same things with the same guys, defenses tend to lose some of their discipline.

Rhett has been breaking tendencies though. We've seen more guys being asked to a broader list of routes. We've seen more spreading the ball and throwing on unpredictable downs (and out of uncommon sets). That's part of what's working for Rhett's playcalling.

Totally agree with all that was said.  The rule for our hurry up is to read the front that's on the center to execute.  We don't have our WRs reading defensive coverage because we want the ball snapped as soon as the center call has been made.  However, personally I would rather slow down a tick, still go no huddle, and QB and WR read coverage then snap the ball.  I think that has a little to do with Gus coming from High School and being able to out think the players on the field with tempo and window dressing.  Now players are used to spread concepts and have played against them and they are better prepared.  This offense still works regardless if it's changed in anyway or not.  

 

[LKEEL75 2,566]

Another huge issue here is that all positions have skills they need to adjust to when going from college to NFL.  For WR route running is (and always has been) the biggest thing.  Of course there are some WR who are great route runners coming out of college but for the vast majority they get away with their speed & offensive scheme in college and do not have to develop their route running ability.  So to blame any one college for a WR lack of RR skills is crazy.  Most all colleges are this way and that is just the way it is.

[WDEKC 187]

Did you even read the rest of the article that wasn't about Auburn's offense at all? 

[JMassie11 1,610]

Honestly I pin it back to coaching but not getting into that argument bc there's still people upset he left

[auburnphan 6,050]

The answer is yes you can add route trees and this should have happened over the last couple of years, but until giant criticism and job on the line, the head coach and his boy did not do anything about it, assumably because of an ego problem.  Wether it was JJ or the masses all calling things out early in the season I think we would still be seeing the same things.

[Randman5000 4,226]

Wow. It would be premature to call Sammie a bust after one year!!! 

[Tiger 8,819]

On 10/22/2016 at 0:25 PM, Randman5000 said:

Wow. It would be premature to call Sammie a bust after one year!!! 

I think as long as we are running this particular system any of our WRs moving to the next level will need a "redshirt" year in the pro's before coming into their own. It seems they still have to learn so much about the position once they leave AU. That and Coates also is part of a very deep WR unit.

[McLoofus 35,182]

11 minutes ago, Tiger said:

That and Coates also is part of a very deep WR unit.

Yup. He had a huge, breakout game a few weeks ago, then he hurt his hand and Roethlisberger went down for the season. Even before that he was averaging 60 yards a game. Sammie's better than fine and nobody's calling him a bust. 

[Tiger 8,819]

18 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Yup. He had a huge, breakout game a few weeks ago, then he hurt his hand and Roethlisberger went down for the season. Even before that he was averaging 60 yards a game. Sammie's better than fine and nobody's calling him a bust. 

He his certainly on his way

[Guest WarEagleSteve]

I think it's short-sighted to use former Auburn receivers' NFL success (or lack thereof) as a benchmark by which to measure the complexity and success of our passing game. Receiver is traditionally one of the most difficult positions to make the jump from college to pro. There are exceptions but typically most receivers struggle their first few years in the NFL for many of the same reasons Sammie did: the game is much faster, DBs are much more skilled, the offenses are more complex, and unless your name is Randy Moss, you can't get by on sheer athletic ability alone. There are plenty of schools with "more sophisticated" passing offenses that have about the same record of putting receivers in the league as Auburn (other than AJ Green, who's the last UGA receiver who's made a splash at the next level?).

[WDE_OxPx_2010 5,295]

On 10/21/2016 at 8:49 PM, WDEKC said:

Did you even read the rest of the article that wasn't about Auburn's offense at all? 

I read the article about Sammy with the intent to learn about his transition and thought the writer made an interesting observation about our offense. That's the reason for the link.

 

53 minutes ago, WarEagleSteve said:

I think it's short-sighted to use former Auburn receivers' NFL success (or lack thereof) as a benchmark by which to measure the complexity and success of our passing game. Receiver is traditionally one of the most difficult positions to make the jump from college to pro. There are exceptions but typically most receivers struggle their first few years in the NFL for many of the same reasons Sammie did: the game is much faster, DBs are much more skilled, the offenses are more complex, and unless your name is Randy Moss, you can't get by on sheer athletic ability alone. There are plenty of schools with "more sophisticated" passing offenses that have about the same record of putting receivers in the league as Auburn (other than AJ Green, who's the last UGA receiver who's made a splash at the next level?).

Good insight. I didn't realize the position was such a big jump. It seems the opposite- how hard can WR really be?

 

I'll hang up and listen.

[johnnyAU 3,630]

I definitely think we need to expand our route tree. Obviously Kodi came through Malzahn's system, but I hope he and the gang can incorporate something from other offenses around the league or the NFL regardless. It's way too vanilla.

For the love of Pete, can we please target the TE at least once every few games? 

[1913-14 263]

25 minutes ago, johnnyAU said:

 

For the love of Pete, can we please target the TE at least once every few games? 

SHHHH...saving that surprise for later

[Guest WarEagleSteve]

19 hours ago, WDE_OxPx_2010 said:

Good insight. I didn't realize the position was such a big jump. It seems the opposite- how hard can WR really be?

I'll hang up and listen.

It's a difficult jump for many because the nature of the NFL game demands more out of the position than many college teams do. NFL schemes on both offense and defense are far more complex, and unless you're a Randy Moss or Calvin Johnson level physical specimen, you can't just out-athlete people. You have to be a technically sound player just to get your foot in the door. Additionally, NFL rosters are MUCH smaller (53 vs 85) so they don't have the luxury of keeping guys who can only do one thing. The guys who are successful in their first couple of years are almost universally either freak athletes like Kelvin Benjamin and Mike Evans or hyper-polished technicians like Amari Cooper. Dudes who are in-between (guys like Sammie Coates) usually struggle for a few years. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

19 hours ago, johnnyAU said:

For the love of Pete, can we please target the TE at least once every few games? 

What TE?

[DAG 33,977]

19 hours ago, johnnyAU said:

I definitely think we need to expand our route tree. Obviously Kodi came through Malzahn's system, but I hope he and the gang can incorporate something from other offenses around the league or the NFL regardless. It's way too vanilla.

For the love of Pete, can we please target the TE at least once every few games? 

 

Our TE has left the building for unspeakable allegations. 

[Timeslider 6 269]

It will be hard to recruit any talented TEs because of Gus's inattention to using them. We will have to develop an average one and then begin to show the talented ones that we will use their abilities.

[AUApostle 7,651]

With Tre McKitty in attendance and the game well in hand, I'm surprised we didn't target the TE a couple of times...maybe Gus IS saving that for next time.  Hopefully he's not too shocked there is a football in his vicinity and loses focus.

[Tiger 8,819]

4 minutes ago, AUDevil said:

With Tre McKitty in attendance and the game well in hand, I'm surprised we didn't target the TE a couple of times...maybe Gus IS saving that for next time.  Hopefully he's not too shocked there is a football in his vicinity and loses focus.