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This will not be a popular opinion, but my take...


TitanTiger

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5 minutes ago, homersapien said:

I just don't see how firing Gus will get us back to the SEC championship quicker than keeping him.

There are plenty of top tier coaches who coached more years than Gus before they became notably and consistently successful.

Gus is a long term investment. I'd hate to pay for all of his formative experience only to lose him to someone else who will profit form it.   

Don't like the notion either Homey....but how many years do you think we should continue to lose to GA and AL?  What's your acceptable pain level?   I think 15 of 19 is enough....the trend is all bad...anyone here really think next year will be better?  How about the next?  I understand the Defense argument being made. ...but if it is that good, a new coach would pick them up in a heart beat...

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35 minutes ago, AubieAH3 said:

To answer your question, no I do not think Nick Marshall progressed under Gus. If anything he REGRESSED in 2014, especially in his passing, when they said that was going to be the focus.

I could have been Cam Newton's QB coach and he still would have been the amazing freak of nature that he is. There is just nothing to say there.

One QB failure under Gus? Does Kiehl Frazier ring a bell? Try this article on for size:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/kiehl-frazier-former-auburn-tigers-quarterback-ouachita-baptist-110514.amp.html?client=safari

And before you say, "That was all Chizik's fault" let's remember that Gus was OC and this kid was literally his pet project since high school. He had a lot of raw talent and I think they put him in a situation to fail. 

Fast forward to Jeremy Johnson. He had all the intangibles and he completely regressed under Gus & co.

I am not a "Sean White hater" like many on this board. I think he has heart and grit and makes up for some of the physical attributes he lacks through pure dedication and hard work. But no, I am not that impressed with his "progression." The situation he was put in last night was all coaching. The fact that we don't even have an OPTION as a backup QB is all coaching. 

If you don't think that is a problem then I just don't know what to say.

Nick was not very good his first two game but got better as the year went on. The team in the second year was much different then the first year so that impacted performance. The players around a QB help make a QB look good or bad. The pros realized that Nick was a DB and not a QB that is why they moved him there.

Yes CAM was a freak of nature but he got better as the year went on also. He also came in with a very strong O-Line that had been together a long time.

You may be right on Kiehl but he was a young QB who was put behind a not so good O-Line so he lost his confidence. He has stated as much in some interviews.

I keep going back to one explanation for some of our QB play the team around them. SW and Other QB's looked bad against Clemson we had a new O-Line coach, many new players and it takes time for an O-line to gel as O-Line and running game got better SW took off. They also had a battering ram in Pettway who kept D honest and SW's accurate throws also kept D Honest. By Georgia game Pettway out and it was obvious SW was hurt they loaded the box and stuffed us.  You can bad mouth coaches for keeping SW in and risking his health and for not switching to JF3 and go run only but you can't say they never developed a QB as they have done a good job with SW and we will just have to disagree on Nick and Cam because despite what you say they played QB for Gus and did well under him.  It is hard for me to believe that is because of their JC coaches and not give Gus any credit for their performance.

How many coaches in college football have turned every QB into a great player none. There is more to QB then being able to throw and run many can do that few can lead a team.

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11 minutes ago, japantiger said:

Don't like the notion either Homey....but how many years do you think we should continue to lose to GA and AL?  What's your acceptable pain level?   I think 15 of 19 is enough....the trend is all bad...anyone here really think next year will be better?  How about the next?  I understand the Defense argument being made. ...but if it is that good, a new coach would pick them up in a heart beat...

I don't like it either.  But firing Gus will put us back another 4-5 years.

Now if our recruiting goes to hell, that might change my mind.  Meanwhile, I'll continue to view the glass as half full.

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1 hour ago, AubieAH3 said:

To answer your question, no I do not think Nick Marshall progressed under Gus. If anything he REGRESSED in 2014, especially in his passing, when they said that was going to be the focus.

Really? That's an incredibly uninformed statement.  Let's compare numbers shall we:

2013 -  13 games, 142/239 (59.4%), 1976 yards.   8.3 yards per attempt, 14 touchdowns and 6 Interceptions.  Rating of 143.2    Total yards (rushing and Passing) 3,044

2014 - 13 games, 178/293  (60.8%2532 Yards,   8.6 yards per attempt20 touchdowns and 7 interceptions, Rating of 151.1   Total yards (Rushing and Passing) 3,330

Every single category was HIGHER in 2014 than 2013.  Marshall did NOT regress in any way, shape or form in 2014. 

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15 minutes ago, homersapien said:

I don't like it either.  But firing Gus will put us back another 4-5 years.

Now if our recruiting goes to hell, that might change my mind.  Meanwhile, I'll continue to view the glass as half full.

Did firing Les Miles and replacing him with Ed Orgeron set LSU back 4-5 years? Change is painful, but sometimes necessary. CGM has shown flashes of brilliance but his overall body of work is one of inconsistency. Not saying he should be fired right now but I do think his reputation of being some kind of offensive guru has been completely undermined.

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2 minutes ago, Dan-0 said:

Did firing Les Miles and replacing him with Ed Orgeron set LSU back 4-5 years? Change is painful, but sometimes necessary. CGM has shown flashes of brilliance but his overall body of work is one of inconsistency. Not saying he should be fired right now but I do think his reputation of being some kind of offensive guru has been completely undermined.

That remains to be seen.  The season is not even over.

Does Oregon plan to clean house and bring in his own people?

 

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1 hour ago, 1913-14 said:

we woefully underutilize the TE...yesterday was the perfect time to use him...we shot blanks...as for potential coaches...Flick at WMU,Crim(?) at NDSU,Hugh ...imagine Hugh coming from Ole Miss to Auburn...as for talent evaluation in general...see above for some more specific examples

We have one true TE, a freshman, who wasn't expected to be a starter this season and is still growing and learning the finer points. Landon Rice got himself into trouble and Jakell Mitchell was murdered. Those were our planned 1st and 2nd stringers. 

Flick and the NDSU coaches are shots in the dark. Zero big time experience. They might be awesome but you're just hoping.  Hugh has squandered top talent for the last 2-3 years. 

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It's a pointless debate anyway. Gus isn't getting fired this year. After uga beats us again at JHS next season to set up another 7-5 or 8-4 year with losses to rivals most will be on board with a coaching search.

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17 minutes ago, WarTiger said:

Really? That's an incredibly uninformed statement.  Let's compare numbers shall we:

2013 -  13 games, 142/239 (59.4%), 1976 yards.   8.3 yards per attempt, 14 touchdowns and 6 Interceptions.  Rating of 143.2    Total yards (rushing and Passing) 3,044

2014 - 13 games, 178/293  (60.8%2532 Yards,   8.6 yards per attempt20 touchdowns and 7 interceptions, Rating of 151.1   Total yards (Rushing and Passing) 3,330

Every single category was HIGHER in 2014 than 2013.  Marshall did NOT regress in any way, shape or form in 2014. 

Stats are great, but they definitely don't tell the whole story. Marshall was a heck of an athlete, but there is a reason he was moved back to CB. Obviously you should have sent these stats to the NFL scouts.

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I am not on the "fire anyone" bandwagon at this time. However, Gus must be held accountable for allowing a clearly injured QB to play when it was evident he could not throw downfield. I probably will get blasted but IMHO, Gus should have had JJ ready to play this game. He could have performed awful and gotten us beat, but didn't that happen anyway? I am sick of the long losing streak at Athens. So many unprepared AU teams have been sent there over the last 11 years. Our record against our 2 chief rivals is awful over the past several years. Something has to be changed. What that something is, I do not know. We just lost to one of the worst UGA teams in recent memory. That is totally unacceptable.

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Some of your points are nice. I agree I don't want anybody fired but thinks like not playing the back up qb while we are killing a team and actually letting him try to run a offense, and running petttway into the ground, and playing the wr that can catch and make plays are all things that even novice observers know better. 

These very problems you speak of, I know at least myself and some others posted about.....And IMO the posters that had stuff to say because it was posted shouldn't open their mouths crying or complaining about the loss yesterday.

But those things Gus is accountable for. As far as sw even when healthy he's been doing that fall away throw stuff. I know because I literally remember the first time I noticed it and it's when I actually decided he was pretty good when he did it. Because mechanics are important but it's what qb's do under pressure and when they don't have the ideal situation that makes them good IMO. That int he threw didn't have anything to do with mechanics, injury or anything though, that was a bad read. He could have had the arm of the uga kid and that still would've been a pick

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18 minutes ago, homersapien said:

That remains to be seen.  The season is not even over.

Does Oregon plan to clean house and bring in his own people?

 

True, and I doubt they will give Orgeron the job, but point is they made a change and, so far, it doesn´t seem to have set their program back. I say give CGM one more year. But we can´t be satisfied with losing to UGA & UAT every year. You have to win those rivalry games every now and then.

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I agree that Gus is not going to be fired this season.   Give him another year. Who was the last AU coach that survived losing to both uga and spuat three years in a row?  But if we loses to uga next year then he should be fired.  Hopefully there will be a new AD making the next hire.  Losing to uga when we are the better team (2014, 2015 and 2016) is totally unacceptable.  There is no sugar coating yesterday.  Give Gus another year.  But he has under performed and has earned being fired.

 

wde

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17 minutes ago, Dan-0 said:

True, and I doubt they will give Orgeron the job, but point is they made a change and, so far, it doesn´t seem to have set their program back. I say give CGM one more year. But we can´t be satisfied with losing to UGA & UAT every year. You have to win those rivalry games every now and then.

Don't forget, it's still Les Miles' team Orgeron is coaching.

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i know one guy in the team who is not injured. and he is the fastest guy on the field. last night was a surrender by these coaches, to the worst uga team in years. because we were on the bubble makes it worse. one halftime adjustment- or hell- even a simple roll of the dice, we survive to face bama, possibly at full strength. i say fire them. we left some offense on the bench last night when it shouldve been all or nothing.

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I agree with what you've said . However, I find it hard to believe that,  knowing there are injuries,  the coaches couldn't have found some backups to step in every few plays to at least get a different look and take a shot. Why continue to play a wounded QB every play and not let the backup sling a shot or two down field to keep the defense off balance a little? 

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4 hours ago, GBAU83 said:

Gus will be our Coach next year.  ...  We made through 2010 and 2013 without any major injuries.  Not as lucky this year and it showed yesterday... 

Humble apologies for cherry-picking your post, but

a focus here seems important.

Whether through poor planning or alignment of the stars, we are injury-bitten at positions of insufficient depth at a time that's possibly too late in the season to fix it.

We are, however, already bowl eligible.

week to week:

   beat these Bulldogs,

   scheme to stem the Tide, and

   start growing some youngsters for next year.

WDE

 

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4 hours ago, Auctoritas said:

...Well guess what, we got there, and this team (at times) has looked much better than any of us thought it would. ...

Again, apologies for cherry picking, but

WDE

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I agree with keeping Gus and keep this defensive staff in place. But what I don't understand about yesterday is this. When it became so obvious that SW couldn't perform, why wasn't JF3 put in the game ? Spread the defense out for JF3 and KJ, see what happens. At least TRY to do something different instead of doing the same thing over and over again.  But yes, this defense is playing too well to break up the defensive staff.

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40 minutes ago, dbrad4d said:

I agree with what you've said . However, I find it hard to believe that,  knowing there are injuries,  the coaches couldn't have found some backups to step in every few plays to at least get a different look and take a shot. Why continue to play a wounded QB every play and not let the backup sling a shot or two down field to keep the defense off balance a little? 

We're thinking along the same lines. I don't get that one either.

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4 hours ago, wcvet said:

We will have lost three straight to UAT and UGA when this season is done. For 4 million a year, that is unacceptable.

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5 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

Auburn should not have lost to Georgia yesterday.  The UGA offense is anemic and our defense totally controlled it aside from a few amazing passes from Eason.  They held them to two FGs the entire game and anytime that happens, you should win.

At the same time, Auburn is a very beat up team, far more beat up that the coaching staff has let on.  Sean is obviously not himself and unable to generate any velocity on passes beyond 5-10 yards without really screwing up his mechanics and thus his accuracy.  I think it's also causing him to throw the ball quicker to try and avoid hits because any strong hit could spell the end of the season in his mind and it's painful.  Kerryon is not the same back he was early in the year because of the ankle and Pettway just bring another dimension to this offense.  Not having all of those key pieces working properly are just too much to overcome.

And finally, the JF3 thing has been an extreme disappointment not only in terms of evaluation by the staff (in hindsight we should have signed Jerod Evans) but in JF3's own development.  He simply should be better now so that when Sean isn't 100% the offense can do something.  But this is not a problem unique to Auburn.  A&M is a totally different team without Trevor Knight.  Louisville is a 3 or 4 loss team without Lamar Jackson.  Who knows what Clemson is without Watson?  You name me a team and virtually any of them are going to suffer greatly without their starter.  Most backups are not stars who just haven't gotten their chance.  They are backups because they are either flat out not as good, or because they are young and not ready for the lead role and there will be tremendous dropoff.  

All of that said, I feel like in many ways Gus has taken some steps forward as a coach this year.  We finally have a defense that can carry a team and keep us in any game.  That hasn't happened since Tubs was here.  He finally understands his role as a HEAD coach and is allowing his assistants to do what he hired them to do.  And while we are paying the price for missing on Jerod and JJ's mental breakdowns, I think what this team did when it was healthy shows great promise.  

So what do we do?  We are likely to lose to Alabama and finish 8-4.  Is it time to repeat the 4-year "Auburn gets a new head coach" cycle?  Thoughts on that:

1.  Well, I don't want to break up this defensive staff especially.  It's taken 6-7 years to get an Auburn defense back around here and I love what T-Will and McGriff have done.  And our D-line is killing it.  It's nice to know we don't have to score 40 points every outing to have a chance.

2.  Yesterday showed that every coach is susceptible to losing games they shouldn't.  Clemson lost at home to unranked Pitt (giving up 43 points in the process), Michigan lost to unranked Iowa, only scoring 13 in the process, and Washington lost to USC, managing only 13 points at home.  And other coaches have had their struggles this year:  Jimbo at FSU, Stoops at Oklahoma, Herman at Houston.  This is not an exact science.

3.  What coach do you realistically think we go after and get?  Herman maybe, but like Gus he's learning on the job as well.  Jimbo has shown himself to be a monumental whiner and without Jameis is having a hard time of it.  Petrino is having a great year but I don't think he's leaving Louisville a second time so quickly and the PTB at Auburn just aren't going to hire him.  Briles is radioactive for a few years.  So I'm struggling to come up with someone.

Taking all of the above into consideration, I think we're better off staying with Gus for another year, hopefully adding Stidham as QB this offseason, getting Woody Barrett ready after a redshirt year and anticipating Joey Gatewood after him.  It's not going to make a lot of folks happy, but I just don't think blowing things up again after 4 years is the right way to go.

Sanity

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I agree 100& with the OP.


We were VERY VERY fortunate in 2013 to stay healthy during our run and were pretty thin in some positions with back ups... this year not so lucky, it has been a perfect storm of injury and attrition. Every Championship team needs to stay somewhat healthy and also needs a little luck.

I think the end of that Championship game showed the 2013 D was gassed, and the ones that played the whole game with out many substitutions could not quite keep up the same intensity especially on that last drive....
fast forward to last night... the 2016 D was extremely stressed by lack of Offensive production in the second half, BUT due to the quality depth and substitutions along the D line... we hung in there for four quarters playing HARD... and with Great effort, we have come a LONG way. We can beat ANYBODY with THAT kind of defense if we can generate at least some kind of offense.

Even with the injuries on O we SHOULD have been able to generate some / enough offense / make some adjustments in the second half to beat UGA. Should have at least tried to work in some running JF III in the second half especially with SW not able to pass, and all those 3rd and 2 and we're throwing it...      and I swear blast me if you want to...         BUT I think a healthy JJ could hand the ball off running "this SW type O" and with CRL calling the plays, taking an occasional safe deep shot just to keep em honest and  spread the D out. We beat ATM last year with a good simple game plan, CRL calling the plays and a healthy JJ... we could have used a little of that as an adjustment in the second half last night (NOT a three QB system ala Clemson though just either JF III or JJ as a plan b / adjustment ) and maybe beat UGA. We played not to lose on O last night and lost.

If we want to compete with SEC and Championship quality teams in late Oct and Nov / new years day / playoffs we have to have "quality" depth at as many positions possible going forward..
I think we have made GREAT strides over the last few years at this ESPECIALLY on Defense and not as much at some positions on Offense (also some lack of depth on O was just unavoidable and no ones "fault" injuries , transfers / kicked off the team etc...)

I don't know how healthy we will be in two weeks... hopefully a lot more so...

but even if we're not 100%, I expect a GOOD game plan for our O to be able to execute AND be successful... after the loss to UGA, now to NOT be conservative, and pull out ALL the stops... Let CRL call the O plays, play loose and very fast.

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I too think Gus will be our coach, at least until the end of next year. However, its not that we lost that bothers me, but how we lose when we do. When we lose, it seems to be game planning and coaching decision making that are areas where we are lacking. We beat ourselves more often in the past 3 years than I ever seem to remember us doing in the past. And once we're in those situations, i.e. Clemson and UGA games specifically this year, we fail to be able to make adjustments to correct our course. So White couldn't throw the ball effectively last night, and our receivers weren't on their game, so why not double down on the run game and put in JFIII for a series or two instead of an apparent triple down on the ineffective passing game? How many times were we going to pass it on 3rd and 2 when we were getting atleast 2-3 yards a play on our runs anyway? Or better yet, why didn't our coaching staff have any semblance of a Plan B specifically if this happened? It wasn't hard to imagine this as a possibility going in if they knew White's condition.

It starts to make me wonder...was our recent run of success due to coaching adjustments?...or the emergence of a running game suddenly because of Pettway? Take him away and our offense looks pretty similar to the beginning of the season. Back when our coaching staff was on the hot seat. And yes I know, there are other factors like Sean and KJ not being 100%, so it's hard to judge everything straight up, but is our offense an example of success because our coaches put the puzzle pieces in the right places and have the right plan, or in spite of that with great individual contributors and performances? And the fact that I even have a little trouble answering that question should be the first alarm for concern. We often talk on here of the need for a new OC that can supplement Gus instead of one that only knows what Gus has taught him, but at some point, all I want is a HC who knows what he needs himself before it becomes a glaring problem. I think Gus stays, but I think it may be only a matter of time before we need to move on.

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