Malzahn vs. Saban

[abw0004 10,110]

With all of the talk that Gus should be further along with getting us to a National Championship, I decided to do some sleuthing and see how other coaches have faired.  I thought I would use Nick Saban as a comparative (excluding stint in NFL).  Below are the schools he was head coach at and how they turned out for him.

 

 

Year	School	G	W	L	T	Pct	SRS	SOS	AP Pre	AP High	AP Post	Bowl	Notes
1990	Toledo	11	9	2	0	.818	-4.61	-13.24
1995	Michigan State	12	6	5	1	.542	7.68	9.27				Independence Bowl-L
1996	Michigan State	12	6	6	0	.500	8.66	5.16				Sun Bowl-L
1997	Michigan State	12	7	5	0	.583	9.47	4.05	25	11		Aloha Bowl-L
1998	Michigan State	12	6	6	0	.500	8.13	5.80	23	23
1999	Michigan State	11	9	2	0	.818	14.95	7.03		5	7
2000	Louisiana State	12	8	4	0	.667	6.34	2.18		22	22	Peach Bowl-W
2001	Louisiana State	13	10	3	0	.769	14.33	6.41	14	7	7	Sugar Bowl-W
2002	Louisiana State	13	8	5	0	.615	8.35	3.42	14	10		Cotton Bowl-L
2003	Louisiana State	14	13	1	0	.929	20.85	3.28	14	2	2	Sugar Bowl-W
2004	Louisiana State	12	9	3	0	.750	11.89	3.98	4	4	16	Capital One Bowl-L
2007	Alabama	13	7	6	0	.538	8.09	4.40		16		Independence Bowl-W	record adjusted to 2-6-0 by NCAA
2008	Alabama	14	12	2	0	.857	16.15	2.93	24	1	6	Sugar Bowl-L
2009	Alabama	14	14	0	0	1.000	23.69	6.62	5	1	1	BCS Championship-W
2010	Alabama	13	10	3	0	.769	18.31	4.69	1	1	10	Capital One Bowl-W
2011	Alabama	13	12	1	0	.923	24.44	4.21	2	1	1	BCS Championship-W
2012	Alabama	14	13	1	0	.929	24.51	5.51	2	1	1	BCS Championship-W
2013	Alabama	13	11	2	0	.846	20.06	3.76	1	1	7	Sugar Bowl-L
2014	Alabama	14	12	2	0	.857	20.34	7.27	2	1	4	Sugar Bowl-L
2015	Alabama	15	14	1	0	.933	23.72	7.46	3	1	1	Cotton Bowl-W, College Football Championship-W
2016	Alabama	13	13	0	0	1.000	25.20	4.82	1	1

 

According to his results, Nick Saban did not become the coach he is today overnight.  Today, everyone expects instant results, not only with coaches, but with recruits.  And if there is time that is needed to develop, well that just isn't good enough apparently.  After a great opening year as head coach, it took Nick 4 years (that he coached) to have a good record and develop into who he is today, (did not win a bowl game until his 7th year as HC).

Now comparing this to Malzahn.  First year was similar, 12-2 with a National Championship appearance.  2014-2015 was similar in the amount of wins.  But comparing the trajectory of 2015-2016, and hopefully 2016-2017, Gus is already ahead of Nick Saban at this point in his young HC career.  Another factor is Gus Malzahn is having to do this while having Nick Saban in the same state, putting Gus at a disadvantage out of the gate.

Just something I wanted to share.  Looking forward to 2017 with everyone, and it all starts on January 2nd.  War Eagle!

[lionheartkc 6,150]

Interesting that Saban hasn't won a single Sugar Bowl, with 3 appearances, at bama...

Of course, I always like to point out how he was mediocre at Michigan State, up and down at LSU, and then suddenly coaching gold at bama... so was it Saban that made bama what it currently is, or was it his fully adopting the bama machine that made it all happen? Since he couldn't do the same, even with 5 years at LSU an 11 years into his coaching career... I still vote the later.

[corchjay 5,311]

Just a regular coach with all the benefits built in from the REC and number 1 recruiting classes.  Plus he has now built up enough equity to be able to take chances in big games.  Like last years championship game with the sky onside kick.  If it fails he looks like an idiot but it worked so looks great.  Could have easily gone the wrong way but like I said if he lost his fans and school still support him.  

Even before he coached a game at bama you had the hype machine rolling for him and Tuberville rolling over and playing dead his first 2 recruiting seasons really helped get the ball rolling.  

[auburn4ever 1,266]

As much as I strongly dislike Saban and REC, at least bammer hired a true winner. Since 2007, Saban has won 4 national championships. How many national championships has Gus won as Auburn's head coach. That is what a head coach is hired to do.

[bigbird 60,498]

The machine works. 3 out of 5 years at LSU he lost 3 games or more. 10 years at Bama he lost more than 3 one time and that was his first year. He didn't just become the best coach over night.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

2 minutes ago, bigbird said:

The machine works. 3 out of 5 years at LSU he lost 3 games or more. 10 years at Bama he lost more than 3 one time and that was his first year. He didn't just become the best coach over night.

It will be really fun, one day, if the inner workings ever come to light. I wouldn't be surprised if it made SMU look like child's play.

[Never2Yield 1,005]

2 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

It will be really fun, one day, if the inner workings ever come to light. I wouldn't be surprised if it made SMU look like child's play.

One could only hope ...

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

Auburn shouldn't be a training ground for any coach. IMO anyways. 

[alexava 6,973]

I take nothing away from sabans accomplishments. He is in his own league. When he retires or leaves you will see bammer slide back into the pack. Bank on it. And like bird said, it didn't happen overnight.  

[lionheartkc 6,150]

2 minutes ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

Auburn shouldn't be a training ground for any coach. IMO anyways. 

Ah... but there are two sides to that coin. If you are the training ground for someone who has serious potential, and they come into their own inside your program... they are yours to lose.  If you let them train elsewhere, then they may never be yours at all. That's how salaries got so outrageous. Instead of building up talent internally, programs have resorted to buying it, and the bidding just keeps going up. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

Just now, alexava said:

I take nothing away from sabans accomplishments. He is in his own league. When he retires or leaves you will see bammer slide back into the pack. Bank on it. And like bird said, it didn't happen overnight.  

I think you misread what Bird was implying. 

Bama might backslide with the next coach, but the machine is in motion, so I would bet that the next coach will just step in and keep it going... until someone stops it by stopping the machine.  As I've said before, when he leaves, it's not like everyone around him is going to forget how he did things and stop doing them that way. The only twist could be that the next guy won't have the NCAA connections.

[steeleagle 2,945]

1 hour ago, corchjay said:

Just a regular coach with all the benefits built in from the REC and number 1 recruiting classes.  Plus he has now built up enough equity to be able to take chances in big games.  Like last years championship game with the sky onside kick.  If it fails he looks like an idiot but it worked so looks great.  Could have easily gone the wrong way but like I said if he lost his fans and school still support him.  

Even before he coached a game at bama you had the hype machine rolling for him and Tuberville rolling over and playing dead his first 2 recruiting seasons really helped get the ball rolling.  

I hate it that we have to deal with what Saban has done at Alabama, but to say he is a 'regular' coach, is so nieve and totally disregarding the facts. Even with the great recruiting he does...he still has to coach them to even get them into a championship game. And now he's found the perfect formula for winning what now 4 NCs. Geez, give the coach his due and move on. He IS a great coach. (Just look at his turnover at OCs and he still is winning 99% of the time. He knows how to COACH his coaches too.

Your reasoning, even ofr this AU fan is just so off base. You're nitpicking..:)

[aucanucktiger 1,791]

Nick Saban has one (1) undefeated season. Ever. Saban is still trying to beat us in a year when we won more than 8 games. He's tried and failed six times.

[CleCoTiger 1,957]

46 minutes ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

Auburn shouldn't be a training ground for any coach. IMO anyways. 

I believe that is what is known as missing the point...

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

14 minutes ago, CleCoTiger said:

I believe that is what is known as missing the point...

I'd say it is the point...

 

[GwillMac6 20,666]

Good Lord. only the most sunshine of sunshine pumpers would try to craft a narrative to compare malzahn to saban in a favorable light...................

[GwillMac6 20,666]

1 hour ago, alexava said:

I take nothing away from sabans accomplishments. He is in his own league. When he retires or leaves you will see bammer slide back into the pack. Bank on it. And like bird said, it didn't happen overnight.  

Not this time. They have dabo they can fall back on and get anytime. It won't be like what we see now with saban but they won't fall back in to the shula years either though.

[gr82be 14,423]

I think the comparisons are interesting but they won't forcast Malzahn's potential in my opinion. I am a Gus fan but until he stops coaching dumb two or three games a year or second guessing some of his players abilities he won't be able to deliver what Auburn fans expect in season win totals with consistency. I hate that Saban is so successful at Bama but I think it has much more to do with him being the best college coach and much less to do with behind the scenes involvement. I just want Malzahn to trust his coaches and players to do their jobs on Saturday. He has Sunday through Friday to set expectations. Saturday he should be the help desk and that's it. If he has hired responsible coaches and I think he has, they will ask for help if they need it. 

[PoetTiger 1,896]

24 minutes ago, CleCoTiger said:

I believe that is what is known as missing the point...

Gus has been coaching all his life, I don't see him as training on the job. Saban has complete control at Bama. He answers to no one. Nobody. Makes things go a lot smoother for him. Not to mention he has the REC machine behind him to get certain things done when needed. Example... No way in hell Reuben Foster is a passing student on his own...

[AUApostle 7,651]

If Gus had no one to answer to, we might get to see an entire season of the whirly bird.

[GwillMac6 20,666]

2 minutes ago, AUDevil said:

If Gus had no one to answer to, we might get to see an entire season of the whirly bird.

exactly. gus has shown NOTHING to warrant anything close to full control.

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

Just now, GwillMac6 said:

exactly. gus has shown NOTHING to warrant anything close to full control.

Not even having all off season to come up with that brilliant Clemson game plan?

[GwillMac6 20,666]

16 minutes ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

Not even having all off season to come up with that brilliant Clemson game plan?

*insert crying emoji*

[steeleagle 2,945]

1 hour ago, aucanucktiger said:

Nick Saban has one (1) undefeated season. Ever. Saban is still trying to beat us in a year when we won more than 8 games. He's tried and failed six times.

 

1 hour ago, aucanucktiger said:

Nick Saban has one (1) undefeated season. Ever. Saban is still trying to beat us in a year when we won more than 8 games. He's tried and failed six times.

What does having only one undefeated season got to do with, if a coach is great or not? Nothing...

p.s Isn't Saban now on a 25 game winning streak? I'll take those kind of streaks at AU if we win some more championships. lol.

And this isn't about the one stat that seems to be the only one in our favor (winning 8+ games = Saban not beating us). 

I was only responding to someone saying he was a 'regular coach'.  He's proven he is more than that. Just bring up any of the modern day coaches that are doing well, and see how they compare with the most important stat...winning the Championship.

The closest i see to Saban is Meyer...and he needs to pick it up a notch...:)

[ArgoEagle 1,773]

I feel that next year should be the year that Gus either takes us to the next level, or see if we can find someone who can. He has had 4 full years of recruiting; all the players on our next year's squad will have been recruited by Gus and his staff. He has had the same OC and made a significant improvement to the D by hiring coach KS and some key assistants on that side of the ball last year. In my estimation, taking into consideration that we have a qb coming in that is proven to be good on the playing field, Gus and Rhett should see that our weakness is our predictability on offense. We are a  run first offense and everybody in college football knows that especially the d-cords for the other teams. So when we play a team that can keep our run game from beating them, such as Bama and GA, we have to be able to be more balanced with a ligit throwing game that can also be a threat to beat an opposing team. If we don't scheme to that philosophy on O, then we can expect not to beat our arch rivals each year under Gus or anybody else. So to me the big question is: is Gus willing to make some significant changes in our O game plan to be a more balanced attack with a passing game, or is he too stubborn, and sticks with what we have done for the past 4 years?