auburn4ever

Greg Brown

524 posts in this topic

8 minutes ago, AuburnNTexas said:

Bobby Bowden was not an instant Super Star at FSU it took him about 10 years before his team was consistently great: This was playing in a much weaker conference then Auburn especially at that time..

76 5-6

77 10-2

78 8-3

79 11-1

80 10-2

81 6-5

82 9-3

83 8-4

84 7-3

85 9-3

86 7-4

After that he rocks it.

At Auburn with our Alumni he probably would have been gone.

Spurrier was great coach at Duke where his record speaks for itself to do so well at that school and he rocked it at Florida with the talent they had and his coaching skill it was a perfect fit but at SC his first 5 or 6 years wasn't that great then he got good again. No doubt he is a Super Star Coach but as SC proved even a Super Star needs the right talent.

Some times you have to stick with a coach a while.  I am not saying that Gus will become a Super Star but we sometimes pull the plug to quick.

 

What spurrier did at duke and south carolina to me winning a ACC title at duke and winning 3 straight 11 win seasons at south carolina when they had never even had a 9 win season in their programs history shows how great of a coach he really is and is right up there with what he did at florida. Duke obviously has never won a conference title since and nor will they ever. Auburn is leaps and bounds a better program thanSouth Carolina and Duke. Heck we are a better program than florida imo throughout the course of history. Is florida better recently? yes but we lead the all time series with them. We have not just beat up on their bad teams we have beat a lot of their really good teams as well. We just have never had a urban or spurrier.

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5 minutes ago, GwillMac6 said:

What spurrier did at duke and south carolina to me winning a ACC title at duke and winning 3 straight 11 win seasons at south carolina when they had never even had a 9 win season in their programs history shows how great of a coach he really is and is right up there with what he did at florida. Duke obviously has never won a conference title since and nor will they ever. Auburn is leaps and bounds a better program thanSouth Carolina and Duke. Heck we are a better program than florida imo throughout the course of history. Is florida better recently? yes but we lead the all time series with them. We have not just beat up on their bad teams we have beat a lot of their really good teams as well. We just have never had a urban or spurrier.

Totally agree with you about Spurrier being a great coach. That is why I mentioned Duke but even at SC his first 5 years were not that great.  You originally mentioned Bowers as my post showed he was an average coach at best his first 10 years. It takes a combination of being a really good coach and getting really good talent once you have a 3 or 4 year stretch of really good teams it becomes easier to recruit because people want to play for winners.

As a coach Saban is both a great recruiter and a great coach on the field he coaches them up. When he left LSU and came to bama it was a perfect fit with an in state recruiting network a friendly press corp, the REC and because of Bear many years before him great name recognition. If Saban had come to Auburn instead of bama he would have had a great career but it would not have matched what he has done at bama.

A mediocre coach can turn great talent into an average team (some of the bama teams after Bear and some of the Texas teams), a great coach can turn average talent into a good team but to have a dynasty type coach it takes a combination of things great coaching and great talent. If Auburn gets 2-3 5* players in a class it is a great year for a few teams that is a down year those are the teams that win 9 games in a bad year.

 

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5 minutes ago, GwillMac6 said:

Why do you not think the right coach would come in and do what spurrier did at florida?!

Other than what I just laid out for you? Let's see... Florida is in the East and Saban is still at bama. Unless there is a seismic shift in the conference, it's always going to be easier to win in the East and as long as Saban is at bama, we may get his number occasionally or even split wins, but we won't own him.  There's no way we get 9 division, 7 conference, and one national title in 12 years.  The 7 conference could be possible, and we could get more than one national... but the 9 division... no way.

7 minutes ago, GwillMac6 said:

What spurrier did at duke and south carolina to me winning a ACC title at duke and winning 3 straight 11 win seasons at south carolina when they had never even had a 9 win season in their programs history shows how great of a coach he really is and is right up there with what he did at florida. Duke obviously has never won a conference title since and nor will they ever. Auburn is leaps and bounds a better program thanSouth Carolina and Duke. Heck we are a better program than florida imo throughout the course of history. Is florida better recently? yes but we lead the all time series with them. We have not just beat up on their bad teams we have beat a lot of their really good teams as well.

Yes, Spurrier is one of the true greats, and yes Auburn is a better program that South Carolina and Duke, and arguably Florida... though that one is probably close, mostly because of Spurrier and what he created, but it still stands that it's harder to do great things at Auburn than it is at some of the top 10 of all time programs. We don't have some of the advantages those schools have, not the least of which is that far fewer kids outside of Alabama grow up dreaming of playing for Auburn. We're also trying to maintain greatness it in the hardest division of the hardest conference in the country with the worst fan base in the country doing everything in their power (which is substantial, considering their ties to law, media, and the NCAA) to stop us.

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1 hour ago, gravejd said:

Yup, i am suggesting that old white guys have more difficulty recruiting players. I know that isn't PC and all so apologies to those that take offense :)

The 247 Recruiter Rankings don't support that claim.

Of the 2017 list, five of the top ten are mid-40's or older.  Only two are under 35.

Of the 2016 list, six of the top ten were mid-40's or older---69-year-old Rick Trickett was eleventh.  None were under 35.  (Actually, I don't know when Lupoi's birthday is, so he might have been 34.)

WDE!

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29 minutes ago, MadtownTiger said:

The 247 Recruiter Rankings don't support that claim.

Of the 2017 list, five of the top ten are mid-40's or older.  Only two are under 35.

Of the 2016 list, six of the top ten were mid-40's or older---69-year-old Rick Trickett was eleventh.  None were under 35.  (Actually, I don't know when Lupoi's birthday is, so he might have been 34.)

WDE!

You have to compare how many mid-40s+ white guys actually work at decent programs vs young guys, black or white. Probably a pretty significant disparity in favor of the old white guys. Just guessing though.

It's not crazy to suggest that being young and black can work to a recruiter's advantage. No, it doesn't automatically mean that he's going to be a better recruiter than anybody else. 

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34 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

You have to compare how many mid-40s+ white guys actually work at decent programs vs young guys, black or white. Probably a pretty significant disparity in favor of the old white guys. Just guessing though.

It's not crazy to suggest that being young and black can work to a recruiter's advantage. No, it doesn't automatically mean that he's going to be a better recruiter than anybody else. 

If young and black were all it took, Kodi would be killing it.

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1 hour ago, GwillMac6 said:

Why do you not think the right coach would come in and do what spurrier did at florida?! WHY DOES THE AUBURN FAMILY ALWAYS TRY TO PLAY DOWN HOW GOOD WE SHOULD AND COULD BE with the right coach and the administration helping us instead of hurting us? Its all about the coach baby. If gus can get us top 10 recruiting classes you dang sure better believe if we got a legit really good- great coach could get us top 5.  Auburn is top 12 all time in wins even with all the negative things you just posted above. Auburn is a fringe top 10 program all time and could easily be a perennially top 10 team year in year out competing for the playoffs and stringing together 10 wins seasons. Is gus that guy? Nope. Is JJ the guy to make the kind of hire we need? HECK NO. hopefully the new president ushers him out. thats our only shot. Am I saying Auburn could ever go on the run saban is on? absolutely not. why? there is only one saban. saban could do that at any of the top sec schools. its not just mutually exclusive to alabama. 

Your assumption is wrong. Saben could not repeat it at any school. First no school would have agreed to his terms of full control. Think what will happen to uat when he leaves. Total vacuum that will eliminate them from any consideration for a while. Second they had the REC in place to do exactly what he wanted and cover it up. Getting Emmert into power in the NCAA and Shaw at the head of the SEC officials. This was not an accident. They are paying players like no ones business. Parents getting jobs as well homes and even girlfriends and siblings. Any other school tried it (see OM) they would be fried by the NCAA. Also he built a selling point with BSPN who help promote his teams and players to increase his potential to get to playoff games. Before the CFP how many times was uat in the CG and didn't belong just like 2012. Saben is a master of deception. Why do you think he turned down millions from Texas because he knew he could not repeat it. Mark my word at some point their house of cards will tumble and they will be back to a team like the one that Tub run six in a roll against. WDE

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5 hours ago, AuburnNTexas said:

We love Auburn but we are realistic. Do you really think we can out recruit bama year in and year out with the advantages they have the REC and remarkably friendly in state Press Corps, NCAA that won't look into their infringements, the bama name and Saban. Do you honestly think we can recruit Georgia better than Georgia the Home State Team. The state of Florida is very fertile ground but we are competing against 3 in state teams plus other schools poaching the state. There are areas of Alabama we do well in the same for Georgia and Florida and being in the top ten is no small accomplishment. bama is almost always number 1 or 2 with LSU close behind and  Georgia near top 5 just by keeping in state players.  That is a lot of competition we have had some super star recruiters, Craig, Trooper, etc still we only get a top 5 class every now and then. My opinion as a fan does not change the recruiting landscape whether I am willing to settle for top 10 classes or only will accept top 5 classes.

You are giving the fan base to much credit if you think that recruiting is affected by our opinions.  I want us to go undefeated every year but what I want and reality are two different things.

All we had to do is win ....if we just had a stretch where we won ten games 3 years in a row we could've absolutely recruit with them. But having seasons where the defense looked absolutely awful or the offense....no we can't. We had many recruits that went to bammer or Florida or Georgia that wouldn't have if it wasn't so easy to say look at how their linebackers play....You won't get coached into a NFL linebacker there, and so on and so forth

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7 minutes ago, Eagle Eye 7 said:

Your assumption is wrong. Saben could not repeat it at any school. First no school would have agreed to his terms of full control. Think what will happen to uat when he leaves. Total vacuum that will eliminate them from any consideration for a while. Second they had the REC in place to do exactly what he wanted and cover it up. Getting Emmert into power in the NCAA and Shaw at the head of the SEC officials. This was not an accident. They are paying players like no ones business. Parents getting jobs as well homes and even girlfriends and siblings. Any other school tried it (see OM) they would be fried by the NCAA. Also he built a selling point with BSPN who help promote his teams and players to increase his potential to get to playoff games. Before the CFP how many times was uat in the CG and didn't belong just like 2012. Saben is a master of deception. Why do you think he turned down millions from Texas because he knew he could not repeat it. Mark my word at some point their house of cards will tumble and they will be back to a team like the one that Tub run six in a roll against. WDE

And it amazes me that a lot of our fan base is too stupid to realize this! Look what shorty did at LSU. Several on this board would have had him on the hot seat after his 3rd season. He was 8-4, 10-3, 8-4, 13-1 and 9-3 He is the perfect fit for the cheating machine in turd town. We are not on a level playing field and will probably never be.

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1 hour ago, AuburnNTexas said:

Auburn instead of bama he would have had a great career but it would not have matched what he has done at bama.

Wow, just wow.  That pretty much says it all.

Some times you have to stick with a coach a while.  I am not saying that Gus will become a Super Star but we sometimes pull the plug to quick.

I wish Bama fans thought that way.  Charles Barkley said the two worst days in his life were, #1 the day his mother died, and #2 the day Alabama fired Mike Shula. I hope the biggest Bama fan says that in the future about GM.

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2 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

Other than what I just laid out for you? Let's see... Florida is in the East and Saban is still at bama. Unless there is a seismic shift in the conference, it's always going to be easier to win in the East and as long as Saban is at bama, we may get his number occasionally or even split wins, but we won't own him.  There's no way we get 9 division, 7 conference, and one national title in 12 years.  The 7 conference could be possible, and we could get more than one national... but the 9 division... no way.

Yes, Spurrier is one of the true greats, and yes Auburn is a better program that South Carolina and Duke, and arguably Florida... though that one is probably close, mostly because of Spurrier and what he created, but it still stands that it's harder to do great things at Auburn than it is at some of the top 10 of all time programs. We don't have some of the advantages those schools have, not the least of which is that far fewer kids outside of Alabama grow up dreaming of playing for Auburn. We're also trying to maintain greatness it in the hardest division of the hardest conference in the country with the worst fan base in the country doing everything in their power (which is substantial, considering their ties to law, media, and the NCAA) to stop us.

Yes we are at a disadvantage in recruiting because we do not have built in advantages yet we got a top 10 class after we went 0fer in conference in 2012. Just think if we strung together some 10 win seasons. We could conceivably get to consecutive top 5 seasons. Eventually these 8-5 seasons catch up to you if you have to many of them which Gus has had plus Gus just does not have the dynamic personality that these great recruits who are head coaches have. I stand by what I said if we get a great head coach our "down" years would be 10 wins. Auburn even not being a state school with built in advantages and resources is a football power and I wish more of our alumni administration and fanbase would realize this and raise their level of expectations where it could be.

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2 hours ago, AuburnNTexas said:

Totally agree with you about Spurrier being a great coach. That is why I mentioned Duke but even at SC his first 5 years were not that great.  You originally mentioned Bowers as my post showed he was an average coach at best his first 10 years. It takes a combination of being a really good coach and getting really good talent once you have a 3 or 4 year stretch of really good teams it becomes easier to recruit because people want to play for winners.

As a coach Saban is both a great recruiter and a great coach on the field he coaches them up. When he left LSU and came to bama it was a perfect fit with an in state recruiting network a friendly press corp, the REC and because of Bear many years before him great name recognition. If Saban had come to Auburn instead of bama he would have had a great career but it would not have matched what he has done at bama.

A mediocre coach can turn great talent into an average team (some of the bama teams after Bear and some of the Texas teams), a great coach can turn average talent into a good team but to have a dynasty type coach it takes a combination of things great coaching and great talent. If Auburn gets 2-3 5* players in a class it is a great year for a few teams that is a down year those are the teams that win 9 games in a bad year.

 

Just think what a great coach or EVEN really good (imo gus is nowhere close to either) could turn our top 10 talent for what 7 straight years we have recruited in the top 10 talent in to?! It is going to waste.

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Just now, GwillMac6 said:

Yes we are at a disadvantage in recruiting because we do not have built in advantages yet we got a top 10 class after we went 0fer in conference in 2012. Just think if we strung together some 10 win seasons. We could conceivably get to consecutive top 5 seasons. Eventually these 8-5 seasons catch up to you if you have to many of them which Gus has had plus Gus just does not have the dynamic personality that these great recruits who are head coaches have. I stand by what I said if we get a great head coach our "down" years would be 10 wins. Auburn even not being a state school with built in advantages and resources is a football power and I wish more of our alumni administration and fanbase would realize this and raise their level of expectations where it could be.

Nothing wrong with dreaming big.  Hope it happens.

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1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

You have to compare how many mid-40s+ white guys actually work at decent programs vs young guys, black or white. Probably a pretty significant disparity in favor of the old white guys. Just guessing though.

It's not crazy to suggest that being young and black can work to a recruiter's advantage. No, it doesn't automatically mean that he's going to be a better recruiter than anybody else. 

Young guys know how to relate to the players.  Old guys know how to talk to momma.  I'll leave it to you to determine which is more valuable.

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3 minutes ago, GwillMac6 said:

Just think what a great coach or EVEN really good (imo gus is nowhere close to either) could turn our top 10 talent for what 7 straight years we have recruited in the top 10 talent in to?! It is going to waste.

Who is this great coach? A100 plus Division 1teams are looking for him. Mark Richt's record was close to what you described and he was ran out of Athens. Why hasn't any other program found him?  Texas, TAMU, Tennessee, Florida, Miami...have been in the toilet searching for him.

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1 minute ago, imaolgatiger said:

Who is this great coach? A100 plus Division 1teams are looking for him. Mark Richt's record was close to what you described and he was ran out of Athens. Why hasn't any other program found him?  Texas, TAMU, Tennessee, Florida, Miami...have been in the toilet searching for him.

Richt was a really good coach he just could not win the big one. He had 10 wins last year with his least talented team in some time. Thats what good coaches do. So just because the next urban has not been found means we should lower our expectations? Homie don't play like that. You also should seek to be great. 8-5 is flat out unacceptable at Auburn. 3 straight 5 or more losses in a season at Auburn should be a fireable offense.

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6 minutes ago, imaolgatiger said:

Who is this great coach? A100 plus Division 1teams are looking for him. Mark Richt's record was close to what you described and he was ran out of Athens. Why hasn't any other program found him?  Texas, TAMU, Tennessee, Florida, Miami...have been in the toilet searching for him.

What's funny is all of those schools offense has looked better than ours at one point of time, and they didn't have half the weapons we did

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4 minutes ago, GwillMac6 said:

Richt was a really good coach he just could not win the big one. He had 10 wins last year with his least talented team in some time. Thats what good coaches do. So just because the next urban has not been found means we should lower our expectations? Homie don't play like that. You also should seek to be great. 8-5 is flat out unacceptable at Auburn. 3 straight 5 or more losses in a season at Auburn should be a fireable offense.

Who would you hire?

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5 minutes ago, GwillMac6 said:

Richt was a really good coach he just could not win the big one. He had 10 wins last year with his least talented team in some time. Thats what good coaches do. So just because the next urban has not been found means we should lower our expectations? Homie don't play like that. You also should seek to be great. 8-5 is flat out unacceptable at Auburn. 3 straight 5 or more losses in a season at Auburn should be a fireable offense.

So you hire and fire every 4 years to try and find this mirage?LOL I'm sure you are donating money to pay off the contracts. Come on, man! 

Edited by imaolgatiger

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Just now, bigbird said:

Who would you hire?

I WOULD of gone after PJ Fleck. I think him or herman is going to be the next urban. Not sure which one though.

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Just now, imaolgatiger said:

So you hire and fire every 4 years to try and find this mirage?LOL I'm sure you are donating money for to pay off the contracts. Come on, man! 

so you accept mediocrity??? the talent is there and gus is not utilizing it. You think 8-5 is something that should be acceptable? Long way from 2013 friend.

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Just now, bigbird said:

Interesting choices

what about you? people listen when you say something.

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1 minute ago, GwillMac6 said:

so you accept mediocrity??? the talent is there and gus is not utilizing it. You think 8-5 is something that should be acceptable? Long way from 2013 friend.

No...I think we should be undefeated EVERY Year!

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