It's time to move on

[TexasTiger 12,828]

In 6 days we have a new President. He's acting like he's already in charge. Hillary is in the past. Obama is heading toward the exits. Time to focus on the present and future. If you don't like a critique of Trump, defend his actions. Defend his policy proclamations. Don't just bring up how other far less relevant people sucked. Don't just dismiss the source without concretely backing it up. Don't just dismiss points or critiques by claiming "butthurt". That's just an admission your own views lack substance. Have a debate with actual facts and logic. If you're a supporter of the incoming administration, clearly demonstrate why it's plans, proclamations and policies make sense. State why it's alliances and interactions with other countries makes sense for America. Explain how its actions defend our Republic. Address the points made by the poster you are responding to, not what some other person or entity away from this forum may have said or done. Face arguments head on.

[AURaptor 1,122]

I've no problem with taking the man to task for his policies. It's the reckless innuendo / straight out claims that he some how masterfully rigged the election w/ help from the Russians that do nothing but divide us even further. 

Michael Moore, of all folks, accurately called this , and said WHY it would happen.  Call it the broke clock , blind squirrel scenario, what ever, it's done and over with. 

I find it curious that some who had  said " sources matter " are now claiming that they don't. But either way, it's time to move on. 

I'm truly happy Obama's days are at an end in the WH. I'm very thrilled that Hillary isn't President. 

Doesn't mean I'll be doing cartwheels at everything Trump does.  Despite claims by some here, I've yet to be won over by # 45. My giddiness is as stated above. For now, that's enough. 

[TexasTiger 12,828]

Folks need to get beyond whatever the ultimately unprovable result of Russia's effort was on the election and jointly focus on their purpose and intent. The evidence shows that. No one's overturning this election, but our country and allies are at risk.

[homersapien 11,362]

Trump is a narcissistic psychopath who is totally unfit for this job which he doesn't really want in the first place.

This will become painfully obvious even to those who take a hopelessly partisan perspective.

 

[bigbird 60,479]

17 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Trump is a narcissistic psychopath who is totally unfit for this job which he doesn't really want in the first place.

This will become painfully obvious even to those who take a hopelessly partisan perspective.

 

Isn't that what you just did in your 1st paragraph? I don't like the man, I didn't vote for the man, but he is going to be the man. I believe he is flawed, but do support some of the ideas he has, such as tariffs for American companies and better trade deals, along with making America attractive again for manufacturing type businesses. I will wait and see how he approaches the job and critique him on his performance not on his character.I will be critical when I believe he deserves it as well as congratulatory when deserved. There is no need for name calling or any other immature musings.  Even though you may not respect him, you should respect his position.

[AURaptor 1,122]

42 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Trump is a narcissistic psychopath who is totally unfit for this job which he doesn't really want in the first place.

This will become painfully obvious even to those who take a hopelessly partisan perspective.

 

That's your opinion. He doesn't want the job? Hey, I'm not sold he wants the full 4 ... or 8 years. But he is full of surprises. 

Partisan ? I wanted another candidate. Would have cheerfully accepted several others too, before Trump. 

What is joyously obvious to ME is that Hillary is not and should never be this country's commander in chief.  Not just her, but all the baggage and political policies which would have come along with her, now won't. 

 

If Trump were to get through his 1st 100 days, decimate much of the Obama agenda, and then decided this gig isn't for him, we may both raise a toast to see him exit, and welcome President Pence into the White House !! 

[Grumps 3,704]

2 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

In 6 days we have a new President. He's acting like he's already in charge. Hillary is in the past. Obama is heading toward the exits. Time to focus on the present and future. If you don't like a critique of Trump, defend his actions. Defend his policy proclamations. Don't just bring up how other far less relevant people sucked. Don't just dismiss the source without concretely backing it up. Don't just dismiss points or critiques by claiming "butthurt". That's just an admission your own views lack substance. Have a debate with actual facts and logic. If you're a supporter of the incoming administration, clearly demonstrate why it's plans, proclamations and policies make sense. State why it's alliances and interactions with other countries makes sense for America. Explain how its actions defend our Republic. Address the points made by the poster you are responding to, not what some other person or entity away from this forum may have said or done. Face arguments head on.

Great post! I agree. But it is also important for those who are going to critique Trump to critique HIS actions or the actions of those working under his authority. Also, if possible, try to limit the criticism to actions performed within the past 10 years or so.

[homersapien 11,362]

4 hours ago, bigbird said:

Isn't that what you just did in your 1st paragraph? I don't like the man, I didn't vote for the man, but he is going to be the man. I believe he is flawed, but do support some of the ideas he has, such as tariffs for American companies and better trade deals, along with making America attractive again for manufacturing type businesses. I will wait and see how he approaches the job and critique him on his performance not on his character.I will be critical when I believe he deserves it as well as congratulatory when deserved. There is no need for name calling or any other immature musings.  Even though you may not respect him, you should respect his position.

My opinion of Mr. Trump is not driven by - nor does it require - partisanship.

Trump has a history, part of which was as a Democrat, not that that means anything either.  

Anyway there's a lot of empirical data in that history justifing my diagnosis.

[bigbird 60,479]

13 minutes ago, homersapien said:

My opinion of Mr. Trump is not driven by - nor does it require - partansianship..

Trump has a history, part of which was as a Democrat, not that that means anything either.  There's a lot of empiracal data in that history justifing my diagnosis.

Maybe so, but there also seems to be a lot of bitterness and disdain that drives it as well. If wrong, my apologies.

[alexava 6,973]

4 hours ago, bigbird said:

Isn't that what you just did in your 1st paragraph? I don't like the man, I didn't vote for the man, but he is going to be the man. I believe he is flawed, but do support some of the ideas he has, such as tariffs for American companies and better trade deals, along with making America attractive again for manufacturing type businesses. I will wait and see how he approaches the job and critique him on his performance not on his character.I will be critical when I believe he deserves it as well as congratulatory when deserved. There is no need for name calling or any other immature musings.  Even though you may not respect him, you should respect his position.

Are you talking to us or the President Elect? 

[homersapien 11,362]

14 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Maybe so, but there also seems to be a lot of bitterness and disdain that drives it as well. If wrong, my apologies.

No bitterness, but a lot of disdain.

We ain't seen nothing yet.  Just watch.

[bigbird 60,479]

Just now, homersapien said:

No bitterness, but a lot of disdain.

We ain't seen nothing yet.  Just watch.

I think we all need to wait and see.

[alexava 6,973]

1 minute ago, homersapien said:

No bitterness, but a lot of disdain.

We ain't seen nothing yet.  Just watch.

THe man has never apologized for anything, never been respectful of anyone, seldom open to advice or input. He needs to humble himself and admit he needs all Americans to back him and trust him. He has yet to convince or try to convince anyone that he has the best interest of ALL people at heart. He cannot take criticism and takes it as an insult or challenge. There is not one goddam thing i can think of that qualifies this a**hole to be where he is. I feel no need or urge to support him and would bet good money he will continue down the same path. i hope i am wrong but see no indication of such case.

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

I'm very tired of this "give Trump a chance" and "wait and see" rhetoric. They told me if he got the nomination he'd change. He didn't. They told me if he were elected he'd change. He hasn't. Now they want to tell me he will change on January 20. He won't. The very wise Maya Angelou once said that when a person shows you who they are it's best you believe them.  Trump has shown the world he is a narcicist and a liar. He isn't going to magically change on January 20. America's only hope now lies in actors, actresses and congressmen who can keep him so enraged that his little orange hands are constantly angry tweeting instead of pushing nuclear launch codes. 

[AURaptor 1,122]

35 minutes ago, GiveEmElle said:

I'm very tired of this "give Trump a chance" and "wait and see" rhetoric. They told me if he got the nomination he'd change. He didn't. They told me if he were elected he'd change. He hasn't. Now they want to tell me he will change on January 20. He won't. The very wise Maya Angelou once said that when a person shows you who they are it's best you believe them.  Trump has shown the world he is a narcicist and a liar. He isn't going to magically change on January 20. America's only hope now lies in actors, actresses and congressmen who can keep him so enraged that his little orange hands are constantly angry tweeting instead of pushing nuclear launch codes. 

@GiveEmElle  Obama lied about the ACA, and that didn't bother you , did it ? 

 

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

Too bad Trump doesn't have an ignore feature. It's a great option. 

[TexasTiger 12,828]

1 hour ago, AURaptor said:

@GiveEmElle  Obama lied about the ACA, and that didn't bother you , did it ? 

 

If Trump doesn't improve it with great much better option as he has promised, will you be equally relentless in your criticism?

[AURaptor 1,122]

12 minutes ago, GiveEmElle said:

Too bad Trump doesn't have an ignore feature. It's a great option. 

I guess you're not going to answer.  I think I can understand why. Lying is something the OTHER side does, but not YOUR guy. 

[AURaptor 1,122]

Just now, TexasTiger said:

If Trump doesn't improve it with great much better option as he has promised, will you be equally relentless in your criticism?

No, because he's not Obama. 

 

That's what you want me or expect me to say, isn't it ? Truth is, I'll call him out for doing things wrongly, or backing away from his promises, much like I did w/ Bush 43 and Bush 41. 

[TexasTiger 12,828]

Just now, AURaptor said:

No, because he's not Obama. 

 

That's what you want me or expect me to say, isn't it ? Truth is, I'll call him out for doing things wrongly, or backing away from his promises, much like I did w/ Bush 43 and Bush 41. 

Which we had a bookmark feature.

[homersapien 11,362]

2 minutes ago, AURaptor said:

I guess you're not going to answer.  I think I can understand why. Lying is something the OTHER side does, but not YOUR guy. 

One could argue that Roosevelt's big lie defeated Nazi Germany.

One could argue that Obama's big lie delivered a healthcare system.

Trump's lies - which includes pretty much everything that comes out his mouth - are at best, counter productive.

[TexasTiger 12,828]

8 minutes ago, homersapien said:

One could argue that Roosevelt's big lie defeated Nazi Germany.

One could argue that Obama's big lie delivered a healthcare system.

Trump's lies - which includes pretty much everything that comes out his mouth - are at best, counter productive.

One could argue Obama's wasn't a lie.

[AURaptor 1,122]

9 minutes ago, homersapien said:

One could argue that Roosevelt's big lie defeated Nazi Germany.

One could argue that Obama's big lie delivered a healthcare system.

Trump's lies - which includes pretty much everything that comes out his mouth - are at best, counter productive.

No idea what you mean by Roosevelt's big lie or Obama delivering a HC system. We already HAD a HC system. 

But basically, you seem to be stating that if the ends justifies the means, then lies are perfectly fine. 

 

2 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

One could argue Obama's wasn't a lie.

Just as one could argue the Earth is flat too, but... 

[TexasTiger 12,828]

15 minutes ago, AURaptor said:

No idea what you mean by Roosevelt's big lie or Obama delivering a HC system. We already HAD a HC system. 

But basically, you seem to be stating that if the ends justifies the means, then lies are perfectly fine. 

 

Just as one could argue the Earth is flat too, but... 

Did the people who said the earth is flat believe that?

[AURaptor 1,122]

10 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Did the people who said the earth is flat believe that?

No idea, but the point is, it's an absurd, easily disprovable claim.