offense is 'gonna sling it'

[McLoofus 35,182]

34 minutes ago, AUinTLoosa said:

'course, for some of us, it's just the damn' bifocals

Hah! Gettin' there 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

Hah! Gettin' there 

WAY too fast...

[augolf1716 21,096]

2 hours ago, AUinTLoosa said:

'course, for some of us, it's just the damn' bifocals

Try trifocals

[AUld fAUx@ 2,584]

3 hours ago, augolf1716 said:

Try trifocals

Shoot! Impressive?

If at first you don't, uh, see, 

Try, Tri uh...

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

On 2/22/2017 at 8:52 AM, Scotty2Hotty said:

Higher than Chad Kelly?

What about yards per completion, which is the more important stat?

More catchable deep passes is what Mr. Stidham will bring to this team that is so desperately needed.

I'm with you. It's nice stats for SW and i don't think he's some scrub but when i look at his stats i'm more inclined to go by the eye test. Who he's played, who he's beaten and did he step up in key situations and produce. Kid had a ton of heart and determination and has no fear; that's what i like about him. His footwork on deep throws concerns me and the fact that we didn't try to extend the field much with him made me feel like coaches felt the same. No different than when they didn't let JF3 throw the football. Didn't have enough trust in him. 

[HarrisBoy334 63]

On 2/21/2017 at 9:47 AM, DAG said:

Maybe so but that reason alone should not have any enduring factor in the limitations of SW passing prowess. Both should've had trust, despite their distinctive athletic ability , especially since SW did extremely well in 3rd and long situations .

SW was clearly the better qb of last year's bunch. But I still wonder why did it take so long to name him the starter? That decision wasn't really made until after the Clemson game. What were the coaches looking for to gain confidence in SW? I simply didn't see the competition he had to separate himself from.

[augolf1716 21,096]

2 minutes ago, HarrisBoy334 said:

SW was clearly the better qb of last year's bunch. But I still wonder why did it take so long to name him the starter? That decision wasn't really made until after the Clemson game. What were the coaches looking for to gain confidence in SW? I simply didn't see the competition he had to separate himself from.

Gus/Rhett tried their damnest to get JF3 to be the one we see how that worked out. Gus has always had trust issues with SW......jmo

[DAG 33,955]

15 minutes ago, HarrisBoy334 said:

SW was clearly the better qb of last year's bunch. But I still wonder why did it take so long to name him the starter? That decision wasn't really made until after the Clemson game. What were the coaches looking for to gain confidence in SW? I simply didn't see the competition he had to separate himself from.

 

Because the coaching staff really wanted a DT-QB to run the offense. Now, we can conclude this based on their recruiting practices. Doubt we will be hardline pursuing anymore PP-QBs

[HarrisBoy334 63]

1 hour ago, DAG said:

Because the coaching staff really wanted a DT-QB to run the offense. Now, we can conclude this based on their recruiting practices. Doubt we will be hardline pursuing anymore PP-QBs

Im an Aaron Rodgers guy, a pocket passer with wheels. Teams worry so much about him being surgical that they forget he was once a 4.6- 4.7 runner (if not faster) until he starts running. Then the pressure is really applied to the defense. I would rather Stidham/SW run in spurts when protection breaks down instead of consistent designed runs and zone reads.

[DAG 33,955]

6 minutes ago, HarrisBoy334 said:

Im an Aaron Rodgers guy, a pocket passer with wheels. Teams worry so much about him being surgical that they forget he was once a 4.6- 4.7 runner (if not faster) until he starts running. Then the pressure is really applied to the defense. I would rather Stidham/SW run in spurts when protection breaks down instead of consistent designed runs and zone reads.

 

I think the bigger issue with Gus and Co was the fascination of athletes who were playing QBs. A true DT, which the elite are few and between, are pass first with the ability to use their legs to get out of trouble. We have to do our best to continue on finding those trends. SW isn't a runner and definitely isn't durable enough to even when in spurts, IMO. However, I completely agree with JS assessment.

[sevenlee36 1,654]

I don't care for us to "sling it", heck all we needed the last two years was better QB play and a little more creativity in the pass game. We need to continue to be run first and make improvements in the pass game.

[HarrisBoy334 63]

4 minutes ago, DAG said:

I think the bigger issue with Gus and Co was the fascination of athletes who were playing QBs. A true DT, which the elite are few and between, are pass first with the ability to use their legs to get out of trouble. We have to do our best to continue on finding those trends. SW isn't a runner and definitely isn't durable enough to even when in spurts, IMO. However, I completely agree with JS assessment.

I think SW is a serviceable runner. He can move well enough to shorten or move the chains at key times if scrambling, (no designed runs). He can't take hits, gotta slide or get out of bounds. Thats ok tho alot of running qbs can't take hits, RGIII comes to mind.

[McLoofus 35,182]

12 hours ago, augolf1716 said:

Gus/Rhett tried their damnest to get JF3 to be the one we see how that worked out. Gus has always had trust issues with SW......jmo

"Well, there's no question." -Gustav Malzahn

11 hours ago, HarrisBoy334 said:

Im an Aaron Rodgers guy, a pocket passer with wheels. Teams worry so much about him being surgical that they forget he was once a 4.6- 4.7 runner (if not faster) until he starts running. Then the pressure is really applied to the defense. I would rather Stidham/SW run in spurts when protection breaks down instead of consistent designed runs and zone reads.

...Drew Brees, Steve Young... of course, those are 3 of the greatest QBs of all time. 

Sean was deployed pretty well last year once Gus removed head from hind end. He's mobile enough to keep a play alive and win football games. He just took some bad hits, as you said in your subsequent post. The one in the bowl game was just a freak accident. He actually got low and avoided any trauma to his head, shoulders, etc. The hit he took on his arm could've just as easily happened by following through on a pass and hitting a defender's helmet. I don't recall the specifics of his other three injuries, but I don't think they were because he was engaging defenders unnecessarily. He could definitely do a better job of avoiding contact, but I think folks 'round here make way too big a deal out of it. Flame away, it's Friday!

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

11 hours ago, HarrisBoy334 said:

Im an Aaron Rodgers guy, a pocket passer with wheels. Teams worry so much about him being surgical that they forget he was once a 4.6- 4.7 runner (if not faster) until he starts running. Then the pressure is really applied to the defense. I would rather Stidham/SW run in spurts when protection breaks down instead of consistent designed runs and zone reads.

Problem is I don't think SW is mobile enough to present the threat you speak of. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

13 hours ago, HarrisBoy334 said:

I think SW is a serviceable runner. He can move well enough to shorten or move the chains at key times if scrambling, (no designed runs). He can't take hits, gotta slide or get out of bounds. Thats ok tho alot of running qbs can't take hits, RGIII comes to mind.

Sean's real weakness as a runner is that he's not shifty, so he can't escape when things break down.  When he sees a hole, or has a called run, he can make a lot out of it, but he doesn't bring that extra level like a Baker Mayfield.  Hopefully Stidham has that ability.

I honestly think the inability to take a hit is a combination of lack of technique (no one taught him how to position his body to take a hit), and a need for more flexibility training across the whole team (12 players on the bench and several more playing hurt at the end of 2016)

[McLoofus 35,182]

38 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Sean's real weakness as a runner is that he's not shifty, so he can't escape when things break down.  When he sees a hole, or has a called run, he can make a lot out of it, but he doesn't bring that extra level like a Baker Mayfield.  Hopefully Stidham has that ability.

Honestly, I'd be surprised if even Stidham is as un-tackle-able as Mayfield. That guy was very special due to being very mobile and shockingly strong. We had our hands on him a decent amount early, but the dude wouldn't go down. It was almost like watching us against Josh what's-his-name who played for KSU a few years back, only Mayfield was even more mobile than him.

Sean is shifty- we'll likely never see him play 6 or 7 consecutive games as a healthy starter behind a good OL so that he'd have a chance to convince folks who don't already see it- but no, he's not special like that. By definition, the vast majority of guys aren't. 

Edit: Watch from here until around the 8:15 mark. Again, no, he's not Mayfield, or Stidham, or Rodgers, or any number of other, quite mobile guys. But he's shifty.
 

 

[Scotty2Hotty 520]

On 2/22/2017 at 8:50 AM, lionheartkc said:

Yes, higher than Chad Kelly (Sean actually bested Kelly in most stats for most of the season, though the eye test easily told you who was the better QB) and yes, yards per completion as well, which is the more important stat, but not the one that tells the story about average length of pass, since the only yards that are counted are the completions.

Stidham not only brings a more refined deep ball, but he's also a more natural runner. Unless Sean improves in the off-season, Jarrett is the better QB, but it's not the huge leap people are making it out to be. Sean is some mechanics refinement and some strength training away from being a top QB... the question is can/will he do what is necessary to be that guy. I think he'll give it all he's got. I also think Stidham will. Stidham has the head start.

The eye test also tells me Stidham, just like Kelly, is a giant leap better than White. He will produce more yards and points than White and it won't be close. 

[Scotty2Hotty 520]

On 2/22/2017 at 11:40 AM, FoundationEagle said:

Sw averaged 12.6 yds/completion and was top 30 in the country in yards per attempt (4th in the SEC) and that includes games playing injured and horrendous play calling with terrible wr route trees....

Where did he rank in yards/completion?

Passing TDs?

Red Zone efficiency?

What did folks see there?

[lionheartkc 6,150]

31 minutes ago, Scotty2Hotty said:

The eye test also tells me Stidham, just like Kelly, is a giant leap better than White. He will produce more yards and points than White and it won't be close. 

They eye test tells me Stidham is better than White, but it's not a giant leap. I don't know that I expect him to produce more yards, himself, than White could, but I do expect his capabilities to open up the entire offense more.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

2 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Honestly, I'd be surprised if even Stidham is as un-tackle-able as Mayfield. That guy was very special due to being very mobile and shockingly strong. We had our hands on him a decent amount early, but the dude wouldn't go down. It was almost like watching us against Josh what's-his-name who played for KSU a few years back, only Mayfield was even more mobile than him.

Mayfield is definitely a rare breed, but I equate him with guys like Winston, Manzel, Jackson... the guys who really are a dual-threat, because if you get too close to them in the back field, they will make you miss and take off for yards. I can't say I've seen anyone as good at that as Mayfield since Cam.

2 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Sean is shifty- we'll likely never see him play 6 or 7 consecutive games as a healthy starter behind a good OL so that he'd have a chance to convince folks who don't already see it- but no, he's not special like that. By definition, the vast majority of guys aren't. 

Edit: Watch from here until around the 8:15 mark. Again, no, he's not Mayfield, or Stidham, or Rodgers, or any number of other, quite mobile guys. But he's shifty.

Sean can make a cut here or there, but he's not the kind of guy who is going to escape pressure multiple times until he finds a hole or an open man. Hopefully, since Stidham is branded a true dual-threat, he can.

[McLoofus 35,182]

13 minutes ago, Scotty2Hotty said:

Passing TDs?

Red Zone efficiency?

Yeah, because Gus Malzahn's calling card is an effective passing attack in the red zone.
 

Quote

What did folks see there?

As someone wisely pointed out to me, we all saw what we wanted to. 

 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

8 minutes ago, Scotty2Hotty said:

Where did he rank in yards/completion?

What is your fascination with yards/completion vs yards/attempt? You do realize the yards are the same in both equations, so when you divide by attempt, you get a smaller number.  The only players that yards per completion benefits are guys who throw a lot of long passes but don't complete most of them.

In any case, are you asking before or after he was trying to throw with a bad arm?  The numbers Fountain gave you include all games, including the ones he played hurt. Before he was hurt, he ranked #1 in the SEC and I can't remember if it was top 5 or 10 in the country.

9 minutes ago, Scotty2Hotty said:

Passing TDs?

Red Zone efficiency?

What did folks see there?

I know you are new, so you've missed these endless discussions, but Passing TDs and Red Zone Efficiency are both a function of play calling and more often than not, we went to the conservative ground game once we hit the red zone. Unless your name is Viper or Willy Guns, you can't judge Sean's capabilities with numbers like those. 

[Scotty2Hotty 520]

3 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

They eye test tells me Stidham is better than White, but it's not a giant leap. I don't know that I expect him to produce more yards, himself, than White could, but I do expect his capabilities to open up the entire offense more.

You're underestimating our new starting QB. 

We'll be 10-1 before the Iron Bowl and that game will decide the West, SEC and one of the four playoff participants. 

And it'll be because of our immense upgrade at QB. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

6 minutes ago, Scotty2Hotty said:

You're underestimating our new starting QB. 

We'll be 10-1 before the Iron Bowl and that game will decide the West, SEC and one of the four playoff participants. 

And it'll be because of our immense upgrade at QB. 

You're underestimating our current QB.  Had he not have been hurt, and had Gus started him from game 1, we could have easily been 10-1 before the Iron Bowl and played our way into the playoffs. 

[johnnyAU 3,630]

Regardless of which QB gets the nod, can we just agree on teaching them how to slide or get out of bounds instead of running full steam into defenders? That would be nice.