2018 4* WR Matthew Hill commits to AU!!!!

[aujeff11 6,243]

5 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said:

Yes he was.  He even took one to the house against UT.  I think he ranks around tenth in kick return yardage for Auburn.  Why did we go from 2014 to this year without a speed guy back there.

You answered this question earlier when you mentioned Gus’s trust issues. It’s going to take a speed guy earning his trust before he’s trotted out there. Igbo has the best chance. Maybe the game will slow down some for Igbo so that he can see the lanes. 

[Zeek 16,617]

8 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said:

Yes he was.  He even took one to the house against UT.  I think he ranks around tenth in kick return yardage for Auburn.  Why did we go from 2014 to this year without a speed guy back there.

I miss Onterio McCalebb as a kick returner!

To return to Hill, how likely do we really feel that he'll be taking snaps on the defensive side of the ball

[NorthGATiger 1,801]

3 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

You answered this question earlier when you mentioned Gus’s trust issues. It’s going to take a speed guy earning his trust before he’s trotted out there. Igbo has the best chance. Maybe the game will slow down some for Igbo so that he can see the lanes. 

Kids are going to make mistakes just like Hardman did against us.  The good usually outweighs the bad.  A stable of studs or a good recruiting class means nothing if they are not used to the best of their ability.

[aujeff11 6,243]

6 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said:

Kids are going to make mistakes just like Hardman did against us.  The good usually outweighs the bad.  A stable of studs or a good recruiting class means nothing if they are not used to the best of their ability.

This is true but you know Gus is paranoid about his football. If you grew up like I did watching Roderick Hood return punts, you’d be paranoid too

[Mikey 16,550]

6 hours ago, NorthGATiger said:

Kids are going to make mistakes just like Hardman did against us.  The good usually outweighs the bad.  A stable of studs or a good recruiting class means nothing if they are not used to the best of their ability.

A fumble back there does not out weigh an extra three yards on a return. The guys that are put back there are the ones that give us the best chance to win games. Sometimes that's a speed burner, sometimes it's not. Unless you are at practices when they are working on returns you can't know who got a chance there and flubbed it, who got a chance there and came through and who didn't get a chance. It's not possible to sit at your computer, look at 100 yard dash times and say who should be returning kicks. On film, Shivers looks like the best bet for a returner in this class but that cannot be known until September at the earliest.

[Mikey 16,550]

6 hours ago, aujeff11 said:

This is true but you know Gus is paranoid about his football. If you grew up like I did watching Roderick Hood return punts, you’d be paranoid too

I remember "just put somebody back there that can catch the damn ball!" Message board wisdom is always for putting somebody fast back there until he flubs two, then it's back to "Just catch the damn ball". Yes, catching the ball and not fumbling is way more inportant than 40 yard dash times.

[aujeff11 6,243]

9 hours ago, Mikey said:

I remember "just put somebody back there that can catch the damn ball!" Message board wisdom is always for putting somebody fast back there until he flubs two, then it's back to "Just catch the damn ball". Yes, catching the ball and not fumbling is way more inportant than 40 yard dash times.

Totally agree. Punt and kick returns can be a big boost to our momentum but I’m comfortable with having reliable hands back there. We haven’t had an issue of fumbling kicks under Gus so I have no complaints. Believe the last kick return we fumbled was Ricardo trying to do to much against Moo State and that fumble basically sealed our loss. 

[NorthGATiger 1,801]

16 hours ago, Mikey said:

A fumble back there does not out weigh an extra three yards on a return. The guys that are put back there are the ones that give us the best chance to win games. Sometimes that's a speed burner, sometimes it's not. Unless you are at practices when they are working on returns you can't know who got a chance there and flubbed it, who got a chance there and came through and who didn't get a chance. It's not possible to sit at your computer, look at 100 yard dash times and say who should be returning kicks. On film, Shivers looks like the best bet for a returner in this class but that cannot be known until September at the earliest.

Mikey I'm somewhat agreeing with you here but the speed kids we are recruiting are doing it in high school with success.  It's only when they get to Auburn that they suddenly can't do it anymore.  If it was just the returner position I would say ok but it is every position under Gus that touches the football.  We wasted a year on Barrett this year for what 11 touches.  We make every excuse FOR Gus and why these kids don't play while every team in the conference finds ways to play kids.  I'm sure UGA's freshman RB did not go to pass pro school before coming to UGA but they still found a way to get a very productive year out of him with Sony and Chubb already playing.  We can't get Gus to use more than one guy without using Pettway as Gus' excuse.  Most of us are just never going to agree on these things.  You see Gus killing KJ because Pettway was injured.  I see Gus killing KJ because he has zero trust in anyone else.  If there isn't another capable back on this roster than it is Gus' fault.  You and I don't recruit the players.  I don't need to be at the practices to see who does what.  It's big boy football and this isn't year 1 when Gus is taking over a team devoid of talent.  We have had 5 years of top ten recruiting.

Saban got his Freshman QB enough QUALITY game experience where the kid could come in and win the natty.  He did not have him play all year with the zone read as his only option.  That is the difference in paranoid non trusting Gus and a football coach.  It's been 2 years in a row now where Gus has needed someone at the end of the year at two different positions and he has nowhere to turn to because he did nothing during the year to have anyone else ready.

[AubFanCT 180]

NorthGATiger, think u hit the nail about Gus lacking trust or lacking ability to get guys in position to be trusted.  

[toddc 13,194]

The moment CGM puts in a freshman in a big game and he fumbles, misses a key block, etc... some will question why he was in the game!!

[NorthGATiger 1,801]

21 minutes ago, toddc said:

The moment CGM puts in a freshman in a big game and he fumbles, misses a key block, etc... some will question why he was in the game!!

It's how you learn and get better.  If you constantly play in fear or play not to lose instead of playing to win then it is going to cost you in the long run.  Do I want a punt returner that lets the ball bounce an extra 20 yards instead of fielding it and saving valuable field position.  Am I content with the average KO return at the 25 or do I want more that get me out to the 40.  Do I want a bench full of great athletes and recruits that don't play or do I want to use them and their athletic ability to help the team win games.

For Gus they are afterthoughts until it's too late and he needs them.  Where would we have been if JS was injured on the 1st series of the 1st UGA game?  Our back up QB threw 7 passes this year.  5 more than one of our WR's.  We would be making more excuses on why we did not beat UGA and Bama.  What we should reflect on, in my mind, is what a poor position to have your team in with a back up QB who has basically had zero reps running the offense.  Everytime he came in the game 3 year olds in the stands knew he was running the zone read minus the read part.  Everytime Barrett came in a game you knew he was catching a screen pass.  This does absolutely nothing for the development of the player and certainly does nothing to prepare him to be ready if needed.

[SumterAubie 3,031]

2 hours ago, NorthGATiger said:

It's how you learn and get better.  If you constantly play in fear or play not to lose instead of playing to win then it is going to cost you in the long run.  Do I want a punt returner that lets the ball bounce an extra 20 yards instead of fielding it and saving valuable field position.  Am I content with the average KO return at the 25 or do I want more that get me out to the 40.  Do I want a bench full of great athletes and recruits that don't play or do I want to use them and their athletic ability to help the team win games.

For Gus they are afterthoughts until it's too late and he needs them.  Where would we have been if JS was injured on the 1st series of the 1st UGA game?  Our back up QB threw 7 passes this year.  5 more than one of our WR's.  We would be making more excuses on why we did not beat UGA and Bama.  What we should reflect on, in my mind, is what a poor position to have your team in with a back up QB who has basically had zero reps running the offense.  Everytime he came in the game 3 year olds in the stands knew he was running the zone read minus the read part.  Everytime Barrett came in a game you knew he was catching a screen pass.  This does absolutely nothing for the development of the player and certainly does nothing to prepare him to be ready if needed.

Right. This does not make Auburn a better team.

[aujeff11 6,243]

17 hours ago, toddc said:

The moment CGM puts in a freshman in a big game and he fumbles, misses a key block, etc... some will question why he was in the game!!

Thanks. TF Roc Thomas in the Iron bowl agrees with this. 

[aujeff11 6,243]

18 hours ago, NorthGATiger said:

I'm sure UGA's freshman RB did not go to pass pro school before coming to UGA but they still found a way to get a very productive year out of him with Sony and Chubb already playing. 

Those TF rode the coattails of Sony and Chubb wearing down and softening up the defenses. That Swift run for a TD in the SECCG was against several Auburn backups as a matter of fact as our defense was already tired. 

[NorthGATiger 1,801]

2 hours ago, aujeff11 said:

Those TF rode the coattails of Sony and Chubb wearing down and softening up the defenses. That Swift run for a TD in the SECCG was against several Auburn backups as a matter of fact as our defense was already tired. 

OK.  How many teams did KJ wear down this year so our TF running back could get some quality carries?

[aujeff11 6,243]

14 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said:

OK.  How many teams did KJ wear down this year so our TF running back could get some quality carries?

Plenty. Nevertheless, with our propensity to use quick outs to Ryan Davis in the open field, we helped wear out the defenders in other ways and didn’t need to use TF RBs. I think Chip knows what he is doing.

[SumterAubie 3,031]

21 hours ago, toddc said:

The moment CGM puts in a freshman in a big game and he fumbles, misses a key block, etc... some will question why he was in the game!!

Not so much, at least for me, if the freshman has seen quality playing time in the not so big games. By quality time I mean either running the entire offense available to him, if say it is a qb, or the freshman playing early in the game, not when Auburn is leading by a large amount.

[NorthGATiger 1,801]

1 hour ago, aujeff11 said:

Plenty. Nevertheless, with our propensity to use quick outs to Ryan Davis in the open field, we helped wear out the defenders in other ways and didn’t need to use TF RBs. I think Chip knows what he is doing.

You better hope so because we don't have any game proven RBs to start for us this year other than Kam Martin and he is not going to be an every down back.

[toddc 13,194]

25 minutes ago, SumterAubie said:

Not so much, at least for me, if the freshman has seen quality playing time in the not so big games. By quality time I mean either running the entire offense available to him, if say it is a qb, or the freshman playing early in the game, not when Auburn is leading by a large amount.

My point was that some will complain no matter what CGM does! It’s hard to read the football forum at times because it’s so much negativity from a certain group of people.

[aujeff11 6,243]

1 minute ago, NorthGATiger said:

You better hope so because we don't have any game proven RBs to start for us this year other than Kam Martin and he is not going to be an every down back.

No we don’t have any game proven RBs on paper but at one point, KJ and Dyer weren’t proven until they were.  I’m guessing at some point we will have some clarity at the RB position. 

[mcgufcm 4,096]

This narrative that we never put freshmen in real game situations is kinda ridiculous. If it works, everyone loves it, but did playing Jeremy Johnson real-game reps prep him to take over after Nick Marshall left? Did the reps Kyle Davis got put us in a good position down the road?

I'd like to see us season players a little more in garbage time. One of my complaints with Gus is that he takes about a series or two too long to pull dudes and start spreading reps, but I'm not complaining about whether Malik Willis got enough snaps. Jarrett Stidham needed every rep he played this year. It would've been ridiculous to pull him in favor of getting Willis reps in the first half of the year. For that reason, any comparison to Bama playing Tua this year is, charitably, not smart. 

Bama knew what it had in Jalen Hurts. When they needed to get Hurts reps (the 2016 season), they weren't out there repping the crap out of Cooper Bateman or Blake Barnett. Both of those guys were young (Barnett had exactly 0 pass attempts going into the 2016 season). But they needed to rep the starter. The backups had to get their reps in practice. That's where we were this year. The starter needed reps so the backup gets his work in practice. You don't just play young guys to play them. You play them if you have the luxury of experience OR if they can actually help you.

When a freshman or first year guy can help, Gus has not been shy with playing them (most JUCO guys fit that bill, Mike Dyer, Kyle Davis, Kerryon Johnson, Eli Stove, etc.). When it comes to QB, we've really only been in the position of having experience in one season (2014), and we played the backup a fair amount. Johnson had 41 attempts as a true freshman and another 37 as a sophomore. Anyway, I'm not a Gus apologist, but this criticism is overblown.

[NorthGATiger 1,801]

42 minutes ago, mcgufcm said:

This narrative that we never put freshmen in real game situations is kinda ridiculous. If it works, everyone loves it, but did playing Jeremy Johnson real-game reps prep him to take over after Nick Marshall left? Did the reps Kyle Davis got put us in a good position down the road?

I'd like to see us season players a little more in garbage time. One of my complaints with Gus is that he takes about a series or two too long to pull dudes and start spreading reps, but I'm not complaining about whether Malik Willis got enough snaps. Jarrett Stidham needed every rep he played this year. It would've been ridiculous to pull him in favor of getting Willis reps in the first half of the year. For that reason, any comparison to Bama playing Tua this year is, charitably, not smart. 

Bama knew what it had in Jalen Hurts. When they needed to get Hurts reps (the 2016 season), they weren't out there repping the crap out of Cooper Bateman or Blake Barnett. Both of those guys were young (Barnett had exactly 0 pass attempts going into the 2016 season). But they needed to rep the starter. The backups had to get their reps in practice. That's where we were this year. The starter needed reps so the backup gets his work in practice. You don't just play young guys to play them. You play them if you have the luxury of experience OR if they can actually help you.

When a freshman or first year guy can help, Gus has not been shy with playing them (most JUCO guys fit that bill, Mike Dyer, Kyle Davis, Kerryon Johnson, Eli Stove, etc.). When it comes to QB, we've really only been in the position of having experience in one season (2014), and we played the backup a fair amount. Johnson had 41 attempts as a true freshman and another 37 as a sophomore. Anyway, I'm not a Gus apologist, but this criticism is overblown.

Yes playing Kyle Davis would have paid off if he did not have personal problems.  JJ angers me even more than anyone.  He could not read a defense.  There is no nice way to say it.  He was a one read QB.  How do you have him at Auburn that long and not know it until it's hammer time?  What were the coaches looking at for 4 years?  

So it was a good idea to have Willis have 7 pass attempts and Barrett to have 14 rushing attempts when they could have redshirted?  We took a year of eligibility from them and they didn't even get good garbage time.  Keep in mind we played GA Southern, Mercer, and L. Monroe.  I don't want this to be a banter back and forth as it's good to disagree and discuss such things but as I stated before, Gus' reluctance to play younger players and his trust issues have caused us serious problems at the end of the year for two straight years.  Thank goodness JS did not go down with an injury in early November or else we might be talking about a different head coach right now.  If Auburn does not know what it has with JS in the La Monroe game at the end of the year sandwiched between our two biggest rivals then they never will.  La. Monroe was when KJ and everyone needed a break after playing UGA with Bama coming up the next week.  Barrett got 2 carries and Willis threw 0 passes.  This is the part that is head scratching.   At the very least let KJ rest and give the other backs plenty of reps.

Edited February 12, 2018 by NorthGATiger

[aufan57 922]

Malzahn needs to take some guidance from Kevin Steele who plays young players and gets them ready so he doesn't have to rebuild the defense each season.

[aujeff11 6,243]

46 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said:

If Auburn does not know what it has with JS in the La Monroe game at the end of the year sandwiched between our two biggest rivals then they never will.  La. Monroe was when KJ and everyone needed a break after playing UGA with Bama coming up the next week.  Barrett got 2 carries and Willis threw 0 passes. 

Seems that I remember we had trouble building up a cushion against Louisiana Monroe. It was a close game at halftime IIRC. 

Also, Willis seemed too hyped at times to focus and throw the ball. 

I do concede that I wish we wouldnt pack the  offense in once we are comfortably ahead. How about take the 2’s and do the same damn offense instead of handing off to tbe backup RB’s for the rest of the game? 

Edited February 12, 2018 by aujeff11

[mcgufcm 4,096]

We did know what we had. We had a young QB who needed reps. That’s what Stidham was. A sophomore QB in need of reps against live defenses.