Scrimmage 4/1/17

[Barnacle 9,064]

What are the coaches hoping for from Ashley? If he were to meet their expectations, would those expectations include starting at tackle? Is anyone expecting that from him? 

[McLoofus 35,182]

5 minutes ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

Smith is not a vert good tackle. Not good at all. All-American at guard. Going to need someone to step up at tackle. James is OK. Gets worked by speed rush ends. 

ralphie_drops_all_the_lug_nuts_in_a_christmas_story.gif

[Barnacle 9,064]

2 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

ralphie_drops_all_the_lug_nuts_in_a_christmas_story.gif

I don't even need to see it. Fudge is right. 

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

1 minute ago, McLoofus said:

ralphie_drops_all_the_lug_nuts_in_a_christmas_story.gif

I was surprised to see AU move Smith in the first place. The plan all along was for Ashley to start. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

4 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

I don't even need to see it. Fudge is right. 

Hah, yeah. Just typed it out b/c I figured those who know would know. 

Yeah, I remember Ashley being referred to as "the most important AU recruit in years", even more important than Lawson or Cowart. Maybe they just figure Smith gives us depth behind Ashley and Ashley's not here yet, sooo.... I dunno. 

Sorry to hear James isn't looking better. Hopefully it speaks well of the guys he's going up against. 

[Barnacle 9,064]

Just now, McLoofus said:

Hah, yeah. Just typed it out b/c I figured those who know would know. 

Yeah, I remember Ashley being referred to as "the most important AU recruit in years", even more important than Lawson or Cowart. Maybe they just figure Smith gives us depth behind Ashley and Ashley's not here yet, sooo.... I dunno. 

Sorry to hear James isn't looking better. Hopefully it speaks well of the guys he's going up against. 

Tall task for a true frosh, but we've seen it done before, especially if he's got good help inside. 

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

2 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Hah, yeah. Just typed it out b/c I figured those who know would know. 

Yeah, I remember Ashley being referred to as "the most important AU recruit in years", even more important than Lawson or Cowart. Maybe they just figure Smith gives us depth behind Ashley and Ashley's not here yet, sooo.... I dunno. 

Sorry to hear James isn't looking better. Hopefully it speaks well of the guys he's going up against. 

James is good. Just doesn't have the tools to defend against some very good speed rushers. Same as last year. 

[Maverick.AU 13,279]

50 minutes ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

Smith is not a vert good tackle. Not good at all. All-American at guard. Going to need someone to step up at tackle. James is OK. Gets worked by speed rush ends. 

I thought this when we tried him some at tackle when he first got here. Absolute tank inside and a top tier OG. Not T material imo. Surprised this move is even being attempted.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

I question our OL coaching.  We had a great class of guards two years ago.  Why aren't any of them able to step up?  Why did it take so long to identify the best combination of linemen last year?  What were we doing with some of those schemes that left unblocked defensive linemen in the backfield last season?

[ellitor 33,081]

12 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

I question our OL coaching.  We had a great class of guards two years ago.  Why aren't any of them able to step up? 

A big part of the issue is recruiting. Most of those Guards were signed by Grimes. And I wouldn't call them great. They were all very low 4*s. At best I would call them potentially good. No way to know if Hand would have taken them if he was the OL coach then. Also JB did not recruit OTs at all much his last year or 2. See Bama 5* starting OT Jonah Williams who is an AU legacy we could have had if we put in a little effort with him.

 

[ellitor 33,081]

13 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

What were we doing with some of those schemes that left unblocked defensive linemen in the backfield last season?

I don't know about other games but I know aTm never pinched their DEs til they played us so that took us by total surprise leaving DL unblocked.

[mcgufcm 4,096]

What are we talking about on the development of Guards?? That great class of Guards was 2015. Those guys just finished their redshirt freshman season, and they ARE developing. Unless he regresses from last year, Mike Horton is going to be a damn bear. Again, watching him work last year, I'm convinced he was one of our top four or five guys. It just so happened that we didn't have an opening. Marquel Harrell could play this year as well. Given our talent at the position, he's probably a year away, but he's a redshirt Sophomore competing for a starting job. When you create a recruiting plan, that's kind of how you draw it up.

WDE, that's kind of what I expected to hear. Braden Smith is a great Guard, but he's always seemed a little stiff to play Tackle. If he slides back inside, we have the best interior OL in the SEC and possibly the country (Horton/Golson/Smith). Assuming we land Cochran or Ashley fulfills his talent, I'd expect DJ to flip to RT. He has limitations at Tackle, but he's probably too talented a lineman to waste on the bench. If that's our OL (Cochran/Ashley at LT, Horton at LG, Golson at C, Smith at RG, and James at RT), we're going to be (1) very very large upfront and (2) very very good upfront.

With all the talent in that group, the mixing and matching isn't a real concern. They'll settle on jobs, and it'll be shocking if the OL is anything less than a team strength.

 

EDIT:  If you took the projected OL I just listed, here's the size of the guys on the OL:  Cochran (6'8" and 351 lbs.) or Ashley (6'6" and 310 lbs.); Horton (6'4" and 323 lbs.); Golson (6'5" and 314 lbs.); Smith (6'6" and 305 lbs.); and James (6'4" and 327 lbs.). Average height/weight (with Cochran):  6'5.5" and 324 lbs. That's HUGE.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

1 hour ago, ellitor said:

A big part of the issue is recruiting. Most of those Guards were signed by Grimes. And I wouldn't call them great. They were all very low 4*s. At best I would call them potentially good. No way to know if Hand would have taken them if he was the OL coach then. Also JB did not recruit OTs at all much his last year or 2. See Bama 5* starting OT Jonah Williams who is an AU legacy we could have had if we put in a little effort with him.

 

I'm not sure I would use Bama as a standard.  Many other coaches are doing more, with less.

[McLoofus 35,182]

8 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

I'm not sure I would use Bama as a standard.  Many other coaches are doing more, with less.

Extremely debatable, but I think you missed E's point. All he was saying was that bama has a 5* kid that we could have had, but we didn't get him because JB Grimes wasn't really going after kids that hard. What bama has done with the kid since is immaterial to that point. 

[icanthearyou 4,462]

1 minute ago, McLoofus said:

Extremely debatable, but I think you missed E's point. All he was saying was that bama has a 5* kid that we could have had, but we didn't get him because JB Grimes wasn't really going after kids that hard. What bama has done with the kid since is immaterial to that point. 

We could have had all those five stars?  We just weren't trying?   I didn't know that.

I think I get it now.  All you have to do is have coaches aggressively recruit five stars.  Too easy!

Still, looking at the top offensive linemen in this years draft, only one from Bama who is a five star.  A lot of guys from schools other than Bama who were not five stars.  I don't believe you can so conveniently separate recruiting and, development.  I think you have to be able to, and depend on, both.

[oracle79 3,569]

2 hours ago, ellitor said:

 Also JB did not recruit OTs at all much his last year or 2. See Bama 5* starting OT Jonah Williams who is an AU legacy we could have had if we put in a little effort with him.

Who was responsible for that? Recruiting coordinator? Grimes? Doesn't GM have final say on that?  IMO anyway you blame/look at it, inexcusable.

2 hours ago, ellitor said:

I don't know about other games but I know aTm never pinched their DEs til they played us so that took us by total surprise leaving DL unblocked.

Not calling you out E, but anyway you look at that blocking scheme, it was INEXCUSABLE the second time we tried it.  Fire-able decision by whoever made it, if you ask me.

[DAG 33,964]

10 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

We could have had all those five stars?  We just weren't trying?   I didn't know that.

I think I get it now.  All you have to do is have coaches aggressively recruit five stars.  Too easy!

Still, looking at the top offensive linemen in this years draft, only one from Bama who is a five star.  A lot of guys from schools other than Bama who were not five stars.  I don't believe you can so conveniently separate recruiting and, development.  I think you have to be able to, and depend on, both.

 

I can't speak on his recruiting habits, as I am not on the inside but what I do know was JB Grimes got the very best out of our O-Line no matter what the recruiting sites said. Somehow, someway he always got the boys to respond to his coaching. I want to see the performance. I've seen enough star-studded recruits not perform on the plains. Lately, it has gotten much better.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

2 hours ago, ellitor said:

I don't know about other games but I know aTm never pinched their DEs til they played us so that took us by total surprise leaving DL unblocked.

For the level that he coaches on, for the kind of money being paid, I think you have to expect to see something you haven't seen and,,,,have well thought out contingency plans.

Surely, no one believed the DEs would stand still, frozen, forever.  

[McLoofus 35,182]

39 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

We could have had all those five stars?  We just weren't trying?   I didn't know that.

I think I get it now.  All you have to do is have coaches aggressively recruit five stars.  Too easy!

Still, looking at the top offensive linemen in this years draft, only one from Bama who is a five star.  A lot of guys from schools other than Bama who were not five stars.  I don't believe you can so conveniently separate recruiting and, development.  I think you have to be able to, and depend on, both.

All due respect, I think you're headed a little further off track from what @ellitor said. He didn't say anything about "all those five stars". He mentioned one guy- an Auburn legacy- who went to bama as an example of good tackles we didn't go after very hard. That he went to bama wasn't even the important part, much less what happened after that.

But now that we're having a different conversation, yes, you absolutely need coaches who aggressively recruit. Does that guarantee you'll get "all those five stars"? Of course not, but E didn't say that, either. But not being aggressive in recruiting certainly guarantees that the blue chip talent will go elsewhere. 

Not sure how we got to your last part there, but how many 5* OLs from bama were draft eligible this year? And who was separating recruiting from development? Of course you have to have both. bama does. It's pretty crazy to suggest that they don't. They lose in the national title game in a down year. They've only fallen short of that game or the playoffs twice since 2008. That's six times they've finished in the top 4 in eight years, and four times they've won it all. Let me repeat that: they've averaged a natty every other year for eight years. And they still have double digit wins in the "down" years. Even in 2008 they went undefeated in the regular season and lost to the eventual national champion in the SECCG. Not one other team in college football- not one coached by Urban Meyer, not one coached by Jim Harbaugh, not one coached by Les Miles, not even one coached by Pete Carroll- can claim a level of success even remotely in that ballpark. 

 

[ellitor 33,081]

24 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

All due respect, I think you're headed a little further off track from what @ellitor said. He didn't say anything about "all those five stars". He mentioned one guy- an Auburn legacy- who went to bama as an example of good tackles we didn't go after very hard. That he went to bama wasn't even the important part, much less what happened after that.

But now that we're having a different conversation, yes, you absolutely need coaches who aggressively recruit. Does that guarantee you'll get "all those five stars"? Of course not, but E didn't say that, either. But not being aggressive in recruiting certainly guarantees that the blue chip talent will go elsewhere. 

Not sure how we got to your last part there, but how many 5* OLs from bama were draft eligible this year? And who was separating recruiting from development? Of course you have to have both. bama does. It's pretty crazy to suggest that they don't. They lose in the national title game in a down year. They've only fallen short of that game or the playoffs twice since 2008. That's six times they've finished in the top 4 in eight years, and four times they've won it all. Let me repeat that: they've averaged a natty every other year for eight years. And they still have double digit wins in the "down" years. Even in 2008 they went undefeated in the regular season and lost to the eventual national champion in the SECCG. Not one other team in college football- not one coached by Urban Meyer, not one coached by Jim Harbaugh, not one coached by Les Miles, not even one coached by Pete Carroll- can claim a level of success even remotely in that ballpark. 

 

I'm glad when Loof follows a post of mine as he goes into more detail than I prefer to often times. I liked it even though the last part makes me . On the 2nd paragraph JB was having health issues then which limited his aggressiveness in recruiting at that time, especially on a kid living in Cali like Jonah was. That does not explain him not making tackles a priority his whole tenure at AU. The only true OT he signed those 4 years was Bailey Sharp. If Herb Hand did not take Sammons as an OT right after he was hired we would not have signed a true OT the last recruiting year JB was heavily responsible for. Bro-Hamm is a combo guy who could end up at OG as easy as OT. Smith was signed by AU as an OT. WDE documented how that's working out right now. Signing 2 true OTs over a 4 class period (1 of which wasn't going to be signed if there wasn't an OL coach change in 2016) doesn't cut it and is a big factor in where we are at tackles right now IMO.

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

2 hours ago, mcgufcm said:

What are we talking about on the development of Guards?? That great class of Guards was 2015. Those guys just finished their redshirt freshman season, and they ARE developing. Unless he regresses from last year, Mike Horton is going to be a damn bear. Again, watching him work last year, I'm convinced he was one of our top four or five guys. It just so happened that we didn't have an opening. Marquel Harrell could play this year as well. Given our talent at the position, he's probably a year away, but he's a redshirt Sophomore competing for a starting job. When you create a recruiting plan, that's kind of how you draw it up.

WDE, that's kind of what I expected to hear. Braden Smith is a great Guard, but he's always seemed a little stiff to play Tackle. If he slides back inside, we have the best interior OL in the SEC and possibly the country (Horton/Golson/Smith). Assuming we land Cochran or Ashley fulfills his talent, I'd expect DJ to flip to RT. He has limitations at Tackle, but he's probably too talented a lineman to waste on the bench. If that's our OL (Cochran/Ashley at LT, Horton at LG, Golson at C, Smith at RG, and James at RT), we're going to be (1) very very large upfront and (2) very very good upfront.

With all the talent in that group, the mixing and matching isn't a real concern. They'll settle on jobs, and it'll be shocking if the OL is anything less than a team strength.

 

EDIT:  If you took the projected OL I just listed, here's the size of the guys on the OL:  Cochran (6'8" and 351 lbs.) or Ashley (6'6" and 310 lbs.); Horton (6'4" and 323 lbs.); Golson (6'5" and 314 lbs.); Smith (6'6" and 305 lbs.); and James (6'4" and 327 lbs.). Average height/weight (with Cochran):  6'5.5" and 324 lbs. That's HUGE.

Agree with that starting OL. I'd move Cochren over with James. The guards at AU are as good as anyone in the country including the backups. We hurting with the tackles.  

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

7 minutes ago, ellitor said:

I'm glad when Loof follows a post of mine as he goes into more detail than I prefer to often times. I liked it even though the last part makes me . On the 2nd paragraph JB was having health issues then which limited his aggressiveness in recruiting at that time, especially on a kid living in Cali like Jonah was. That does not explain him not making tackles a priority his whole tenure at AU. The only true OT he signed those 4 years was Bailey Sharp. If Herb Hand did not take Sammons as an OT right after he was hired we would not have signed a true OT the last recruiting year JB was heavily responsible for. Bro-Hamm is a combo guy who could end up at OG as easy as OT. Smith was signed by AU as an OT. WDE documented how that's working out right now. Signing 2 true OTs over a 4 class period (1 of which wasn't going to be signed if there wasn't an OL coach change in 2016) doesn't cut it and is a big factor in where we are at tackles right now IMO.

Are you guys blaming the lack of recruiting tackles on Grimes? That is all Gus. All Gus. Part of the "red flags" I have with Gus. 

[ellitor 33,081]

1 minute ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

Are you guys blaming the lack of recruiting tackles on Grimes? That is all Gus. All Gus. Part of the "red flags" I have with Gus. 

REally? My understand has been Gus pretty much lets the positions coaches go after whoever they want except QB, RB, & maybe WR. This is the first I've heard it's All Gus making those choices outside of QB & RB.

[ellitor 33,081]

1 hour ago, oracle79 said:

Who was responsible for that? Recruiting coordinator? Grimes? Doesn't GM have final say on that?  IMO anyway you blame/look at it, inexcusable.

I was understanding the assistants outside of QB, RB, & WR were responsible but WDE says otherwise so IDK now. Yes Gus has final say but !was told before WDE's post he didn't give much recruiting input outside of QB, RB, & maybe WR. I agree it's inexcusable if what I had been told is true. I was just passing the info along.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

All due respect, I think you're headed a little further off track from what @ellitor said. He didn't say anything about "all those five stars". He mentioned one guy- an Auburn legacy- who went to bama as an example of good tackles we didn't go after very hard. That he went to bama wasn't even the important part, much less what happened after that.

But now that we're having a different conversation, yes, you absolutely need coaches who aggressively recruit. Does that guarantee you'll get "all those five stars"? Of course not, but E didn't say that, either. But not being aggressive in recruiting certainly guarantees that the blue chip talent will go elsewhere. 

Not sure how we got to your last part there, but how many 5* OLs from bama were draft eligible this year? And who was separating recruiting from development? Of course you have to have both. bama does. It's pretty crazy to suggest that they don't. They lose in the national title game in a down year. They've only fallen short of that game or the playoffs twice since 2008. That's six times they've finished in the top 4 in eight years, and four times they've won it all. Let me repeat that: they've averaged a natty every other year for eight years. And they still have double digit wins in the "down" years. Even in 2008 they went undefeated in the regular season and lost to the eventual national champion in the SECCG. Not one other team in college football- not one coached by Urban Meyer, not one coached by Jim Harbaugh, not one coached by Les Miles, not even one coached by Pete Carroll- can claim a level of success even remotely in that ballpark. 

 

Well, if you think Auburn can magically begin recruiting at that level,,,I see your point.  Otherwise, I wouldn't hold Bama up as a model.  I think you are going to have to do it the "old-fashioned" way.  

Discounting low four stars and, suggesting five stars are the answer is/was far too simplistic of a suggestion.